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At 10/2/08 10:38 PM, cHunter wrote:

At 10/2/08 10:13 PM, Achilles2 wrote: Really, it makes me feel sorry for her - you can tell she's trying but this just isn't the job for her.

Making a joke is bad? I though it was pretty good.

Yeah if its a bad joke.

Palin was horrible and didn't answer any of the questions, she was vague, insulted Biden, had no substance and probably didn't know anything about the policies she was trying to debate about. Biden mopped the floor with her and even called her out in the beginning for not even answering the question, she kept going back to energy when the question asked had nothing to do with energy.

At 10/2/08 10:29 PM, Tancrisism wrote: What the fuck, that's all I can say. Palin is trying to win a beauty pageant.

And I want world peace, and to feed all the African children...

Palin seemed to take all of Obama's successful ideas and spin them to say that McCain has been saying them all along. Notice how a commonly used word by her in this debate was "Change". It's as if she's trying to please all of the people even though the ideas are conflicting with what she and McCain have actually done and said in the past. Comparing Palin's words today with John McCain's words pre-Palin, you'd think they were running against each other.

And for a lot of the debate, I was wondering where Palin got her facts about Obama from.

At 10/2/08 10:38 PM, cHunter wrote:

At 10/2/08 10:13 PM, Achilles2 wrote: Really, it makes me feel sorry for her - you can tell she's trying but this just isn't the job for her.

Making a joke is bad? I though it was pretty good.

No, it's just that you can tell she's really is out of place there. She seems confused on the issues and seems to not know what she's talking about half the time. The joke just showed how out of place she was. She seemed star-struck, as shown by her closing comments when she said "It's an honor for me to be here" in the same way an award-recipient would have said.

And on a completely unrelated note, why did I just see an Obama commercial, then a McCain commercial, then an Obama commercial in succession?

I thought they both did well, and I didn't think that Biden "crushed" Palin. Although, I would declare him winner. It was a good debate though.

Biden kept saying through-out the debate what Mccain would be doing instead of Obama as if he's any better.

At 10/2/08 10:50 PM, Achilles2 wrote: She seemed star-struck, as shown by her closing comments when she said "It's an honor for me to be here" in the same way an award-recipient would have said.

You're right. She should have said, "You suck and I hate you all." Seriously, what was she thinking? Feeling honored to be defending her position in a debate? What a whore.

The debate seemed pretty equal. I think Palin did a better job than McCain did last week.

And the truth of the matter is... no seriously, shaking your head laughing is a sign of weakness in debate.
Sorry guys, but win Palin.

Palin was not even there she was so heavily coached she should have just recorded what her handlers wanted her to say put it on a stero and sit in the corner like a dumbass

Palin looked really shaky for a large portion of the debate. She got used to it as it went on, but I thought she was pretty stiff up there. She did well for her first national debate, though. No real gaffes or goof-ups that she could have really avoided, since priority number 1 was to stick to the script. Biden didn't say anything offensive, either, so they both got out pretty much unscathed when it comes to self-mutilation.

They both had their own rehearsed party lines to say, but God DAMN, Palin absolutely drove the "heartland hockey mom" image INTO THE FUCKING GROUND AND DANCED AROUND THE WRECKAGE. Jesus, even if she actually IS that folksy and not faking it, I don't like it.

I didn't agree with Biden on all the issues he presented, and he didn't say a lot of things I wanted him to say, and even said things I just didn't like at all, but the only times I ever agreed with Palin was when she was in agreement with Biden on a freebie topic question like "Do you hate poor people". Palin just kept fucking lapsing into "Wall Street Greed and Corruption" for the first half whenever she needed something to say, and she kept talking about "The Real American Family and Values and Shit" for the second half when she needed to say something and nothing at the same time. Made me sick right from the start. When she blamed EVERYTHING on Wall Street regarding the subprime crisis, I almost lost it. As if people HAVE to try and get houses they couldn't realistically afford. It was a mutual fuck-up on the lenders and the consumers. That's how it was allowed to get so deep, but she played the role of the Glorious White Knight, saving people from the Evil Wall Street, absolving people of any responsibility. When she talked, it was like she was talking to an idiot. It was almost insulting, because it was like she assumed the audience didn't know anything and just wanted to be coddled and hugged.

Biden could have done better in his explanation of his work in the Senate. He probably went over a lot of heads that way, and lost a bit of support. Other than his frequent "In the Senate, blah blah blah" points, he seemed really solid, especially on foreign policy, and showed that he obviously knows how shit works in Federal and International government. That was probably his biggest advantage over Palin.

Palin kept mentioning her experience as a business owner, Mother, Mayor, and Governor and all that, but honestly, we're talking about Alaska. The Mayor experience seems inconsequential, and the only thing that really gave her experience would be her work in dealing with international oil industries. There are Mayors of cities that have more constituents than she does as Governor. I mean, Alaska is 47 on the list of U.S. States with highest population. She doesn't deal with as much as a governor of most states would have to deal with, with the exception of oil production. She didn't display much experience or knowledge of foreign policy, and that's worrisome.

In the end, I'd say that if there has to be a winner to this debate, it would be Biden, but with the experience he has with this kind of thing, it's only expected.

At 10/2/08 11:01 PM, SuperDeagle wrote: And the truth of the matter is... no seriously, shaking your head laughing is a sign of weakness in debate.
Sorry guys, but win Palin.

If you respond with a valid point that shoots down the opponent's, then it really doesn't matter what you do with your head. Judging a win fro Palin just because Biden shook his head laughing instead of responding (mainly because he wasn't going to interrupt her) is a weak basis for saying who "won".

At 10/2/08 10:58 PM, cHunter wrote: You're right. She should have said, "You suck and I hate you all." Seriously, what was she thinking? Feeling honored to be defending her position in a debate? What a whore.

You obviously missed my entire point.

At 10/2/08 11:01 PM, SuperDeagle wrote: And the truth of the matter is... no seriously, shaking your head laughing is a sign of weakness in debate.
Sorry guys, but win Palin.

Are you serious? I read it as more of a sign of confidence/cockiness.

Besides, that wouldn't make Palin win. If anything, her reliance on shticks and fed lines more than anything is a greater sign of weakness.

At 10/2/08 11:11 PM, Achilles2 wrote:

At 10/2/08 11:01 PM, SuperDeagle wrote: And the truth of the matter is... no seriously, shaking your head laughing is a sign of weakness in debate.
Sorry guys, but win Palin.

If you respond with a valid point that shoots down the opponent's, then it really doesn't matter what you do with your head. Judging a win fro Palin just because Biden shook his head laughing instead of responding (mainly because he wasn't going to interrupt her) is a weak basis for saying who "won".

Well gee thanks Skippy for pointing out a no-duh.
I found Bidens responses to be quite dull and non effective, not saying Palin didn't do the same here and there. As far as presentation goes, Palin put more 'glam' in the explanation and came off being witty at times. When it comes to the debate I say it's a tie, but when it comes to getting your points across Palin did better.

At 10/2/08 11:16 PM, SuperDeagle wrote:

Well gee thanks Skippy for pointing out a no-duh.
I found Bidens responses to be quite dull and non effective, not saying Palin didn't do the same here and there. As far as presentation goes, Palin put more 'glam' in the explanation and came off being witty at times.

That's why she fucking lost. She was so far up her own ass in flowery bullshit about America and family and all that great shit that she couldn't find the time to actually say anything that mattered half the time. That wasn't "glam", it was a crutch to keep her from falling on her face on live TV. It looked fake, it was horrible, and she had to resort to it to prevent further damage as a last resort.

Biden gave his shit straight up and out, and did his best to get right to the point hard and fast, and said what he meant, since what he said was frequently much more relevant than Palin's responses.

When it comes to the debate I say it's a tie, but when it comes to getting your points across Palin did better.

At 10/2/08 11:11 PM, Achilles2 wrote: You obviously missed my entire point.

No. Your point was she was out of place. I didn't feel she was at all. I felt that she did a damn good job debating and so I just decided to say a sarcastic remark played off of your statement.

Beauty queen. Did anyone try counting how often she winked at the camera? She's trying too hard to be folksy, and I don't think it was professional. She's just not ready for a serious governmental position yet. Someone that . . . um . . . casual? should not have a chance at president.

If someone who watched this debate knew nothing about either candidate, all they'd know about Palin is that she was a mother, mayor, small business owner, governor, and energy regulator. Seriously, she must have said that five times, and she seems to think that America needs energy and that's it. Fuck EVERYTHING ELSE, we need ENERGY! Don't forget, she's a mom. And a mayor, small business owner, etc.

Biden was very charismatic and confident. He slipped up once in the beginning, but that's about it. He had a lot of hard facts and numbers, and he answered all questions relatively straight-forwardly. He certainly did better as a debater. However, he isn't a mom, small business owner, or energy regulator, so who knows if he's really the right man for the job, right?

At 10/2/08 11:23 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote: That's why she fucking lost. She was so far up her own ass in flowery bullshit about America and family and all that great shit that she couldn't find the time to actually say anything that mattered half the time. That wasn't "glam", it was a crutch to keep her from falling on her face on live TV. It looked fake, it was horrible, and she had to resort to it to prevent further damage as a last resort.

Well hur hur hur, man with conflicting opinions. Look when it comes to getting a message across the average person doesn't know any better to tell if it's right or wrong, but they remember things that stick out. Her being glamful did just that.

Biden gave his shit straight up and out, and did his best to get right to the point hard and fast, and said what he meant, since what he said was frequently much more relevant than Palin's responses.

At 10/2/08 11:31 PM, SuperDeagle wrote:

Well hur hur hur, man with conflicting opinions. Look when it comes to getting a message across the average person doesn't know any better to tell if it's right or wrong, but they remember things that stick out. Her being glamful did just that.

This is exactly what the McCain campaign thinks of America, that we are dumb. Se thinks by using "glam" she is going to win over votes but in reality it insults us when what we really want is answers which she could not give.

Anyone else notice her waving at the camera in the beginning of the debate?

That was weird.

At 10/2/08 11:31 PM, SuperDeagle wrote: Well hur hur hur, man with conflicting opinions. Look when it comes to getting a message across the average person doesn't know any better to tell if it's right or wrong, but they remember things that stick out. Her being glamful did just that.

But it sticks out as annoying and repetitive, not as truthful and significant. Negative things can stick out, and that's what people are going to remember: Palin beating a dead horse.

At 10/2/08 11:23 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

When it comes to the debate I say it's a tie, but when it comes to getting your points across Palin did better.

Shit, that should have been in quotes.

At 10/2/08 11:27 PM, BetaOrionis wrote: She's just not ready for a serious governmental position yet.

Because being a governor of a state is nothing.

Someone that . . . um . . . casual? should not have a chance at president.

That's why she's going for VP, not president.

At 10/2/08 11:36 PM, Joshiwa wrote: This is exactly what the McCain campaign thinks of America, that we are dumb. Se thinks by using "glam" she is going to win over votes but in reality it insults us when what we really want is answers which she could not give.

Arguably Obama has done the exact same thing in the majority of his presentations. His whole appeal has been I'm a young black guy.

At 10/2/08 11:38 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote: But it sticks out as annoying and repetitive, not as truthful and significant. Negative things can stick out, and that's what people are going to remember: Palin beating a dead horse.

True, but Biden did the same thing. For example the whole McCain 90% vote for Bush. They're both guilty of it.

Shit, that should have been in quotes.

Yeah I deleted it for yeah. :)

At 10/2/08 11:38 PM, SuperDeagle wrote: Arguably Obama has done the exact same thing in the majority of his presentations. His whole appeal has been I'm a young black guy.

Except Obama actually produces information that's relevant to the questions being asked. Palin just completely danced around the questions given to her. So no, you can't argue that Obama has done the exact same thing.

At 10/2/08 11:38 PM, SuperDeagle wrote:

At 10/2/08 11:36 PM, Joshiwa wrote: This is exactly what the McCain campaign thinks of America, that we are dumb. Se thinks by using "glam" she is going to win over votes but in reality it insults us when what we really want is answers which she could not give.

Arguably Obama has done the exact same thing in the majority of his presentations. His whole appeal has been I'm a young black guy.

When has he used this to his advantage like Palin tried to tonight? The McCain campaign thinks because she is a women other women will vote for her which they have come to find out, obviously, that is not true. Obama knows what he is talking about and gives the answers, charisma is part of politics but not in the sense Palin is using it to her only factor in an election.

At 10/2/08 11:41 PM, SuperDeagle wrote:

At 10/2/08 11:38 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote: But it sticks out as annoying and repetitive, not as truthful and significant. Negative things can stick out, and that's what people are going to remember: Palin beating a dead horse.

True, but Biden did the same thing. For example the whole McCain 90% vote for Bush. They're both guilty of it.

They both brought up voting records a lot, and in my opinion, the entire debate was too centered on the Presidential candidates than it was on the credentials of the VP candidates. They both spent too much time talking about their running mate.

At 10/2/08 11:38 PM, cHunter wrote:

At 10/2/08 11:27 PM, BetaOrionis wrote: She's just not ready for a serious governmental position yet.

Because being a governor of a state is nothing.

It is if your state has a lower population than some cities.

Someone that . . . um . . . casual? should not have a chance at president.

That's why she's going for VP, not president.

I was referring to the off chance that McCain kicks the bucket. Palin would have to lead. I notice that she seemed somewhat evasive when dealing with the question of what she'd do if that situation came to pass. Not that she was particularly clear on most issues anyway.

At 10/2/08 11:42 PM, Musician wrote:

At 10/2/08 11:38 PM, SuperDeagle wrote: Arguably Obama has done the exact same thing in the majority of his presentations. His whole appeal has been I'm a young black guy.

Except Obama actually produces information that's relevant to the questions being asked. Palin just completely danced around the questions given to her. So no, you can't argue that Obama has done the exact same thing.

Way to overlook the point:

At 10/2/08 11:36 PM, Joshiwa wrote:

This is exactly what the McCain campaign thinks of America, that we are dumb. Se thinks : by using "glam" she is going to win over votes but in reality it insults us when what we really want is answers which she could not give.

Were not discussing who answers what questions what way, were discussing how they send that message through appeal. Throwing in which one does it to be correct is a whole different story.

At 10/2/08 11:43 PM, Joshiwa wrote: When has he used this to his advantage like Palin tried to tonight? The McCain campaign thinks because she is a women other women will vote for her which they have come to find out, obviously, that is not true. Obama knows what he is talking about and gives the answers, charisma is part of politics but not in the sense Palin is using it to her only factor in an election.

His whole campaign is based on this, a lot of his speeches have reflections of it, though I will admit some can be taken in a lot of ways. It's there, but it's hard to notice.

At 10/2/08 11:49 PM, BetaOrionis wrote: It is if your state has a lower population than some cities.

That point makes no sense. That's like saying a couple that has one child knows nothing about parenting whereas a couple with twenty children know a great deal. The population of her state is irrelevant.

I was referring to the off chance that McCain kicks the bucket. Palin would have to lead. I notice that she seemed somewhat evasive when dealing with the question of what she'd do if that situation came to pass. Not that she was particularly clear on most issues anyway.

She's the only one out of the four of them with executive experience.

At 10/2/08 11:49 PM, SuperDeagle wrote:

Way to overlook the point:

At 10/2/08 11:36 PM, Joshiwa wrote:

This is exactly what the McCain campaign thinks of America, that we are dumb. Se thinks : by using "glam" she is going to win over votes but in reality it insults us when what we really want is answers which she could not give.

Were not discussing who answers what questions what way, were discussing how they send that message through appeal. Throwing in which one does it to be correct is a whole different story.

Yes we are and have been the entire time, it just shows that you have no counter for this because its the truth.

At 10/2/08 11:43 PM, Joshiwa wrote: When has he used this to his advantage like Palin tried to tonight? The McCain campaign thinks because she is a women other women will vote for her which they have come to find out, obviously, that is not true. Obama knows what he is talking about and gives the answers, charisma is part of politics but not in the sense Palin is using it to her only factor in an election.

His whole campaign is based on this, a lot of his speeches have reflections of it, though I will admit some can be taken in a lot of ways. It's there, but it's hard to notice.

I have not noticed it, only the fact that he stands for change and has a plan. But forget it I will give you that but the fact remains that it fails in comparison to how Palin is using it as the basis of her entire campaign and the fact McCain is trying to leech off of it.

At 10/2/08 11:51 PM, cHunter wrote: She's the only one out of the four of them with executive experience.

Shes also the only one out of the four of them who absolutely ass backwards retarded. Honestly have you even been attention to what she's been saying? You can not argue that this woman is ready to be president of the United States.