The Situation in Iraq?

[4urentertainment]

Bombings in Iraq

I keep hearing everyday how bad the situation is in Iraq, and what each president of the U.S.A would do about it. But the situation is quite unclear. Could someone explain these points?

First of all, is it clear who did these bombings? What do these terrorists want? I thought they were against America, why kill Iraq's civilians?

I guess that's it for now.

I ask this because I have been getting so many biased opinions from here in Egypt (like the Americans want to kill all Muslims and the entire middle east except Israel) So i want to hear from the other side.

[Oblivia]

This our objective in a nutshell:

1. Get rid of Saddam.
2. Create a democratic government in Iraq.
3. Support Iraq until it can handle itself.
4. Get out.

The claim was that Saddam Hussein had WMD's but we failed to find any due to faulty information. There are also other reason's of why Saddam needed to be ousted like committing crimes against humanity by killing the Kurds and instigating against UN laws, at least from what I hear.

[animehater]

At 10/1/08 01:11 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: I keep hearing everyday how bad the situation is in Iraq,

Really? I've stopped hearing about Iraq altogether. Where are you?

[SmilezRoyale]

There's no point talking about Iraq anymore, even if the news was negative. George Bushes legacy in Iraq is irredeemable.

Although... A horrible disaster in Iraq occurring might make people less keen about staying. I'm not so sure.

Either way i don't think it matters that great a deal.

[4urentertainment]

At 10/1/08 03:00 PM, Oblivia wrote: This our objective in a nutshell:

1. Get rid of Saddam.
2. Create a democratic government in Iraq.
3. Support Iraq until it can handle itself.
4. Get out.

The claim was that Saddam Hussein had WMD's but we failed to find any due to faulty information. There are also other reason's of why Saddam needed to be ousted like committing crimes against humanity by killing the Kurds and instigating against UN laws, at least from what I hear.

So basically your saying that America wants to help Iraq?

Then how come all the Arab countries are outraged at the situation and they say that even Iraq wants it America to leave.

And the person who said they stopped hearing about Iraq, did you click on the link in my first post?

[Sajberhippien]

At 10/1/08 03:00 PM, Oblivia wrote: Saddam needed to be ousted like committing crimes against humanity by killing the Kurds and instigating against UN laws, at least from what I hear.

While I could get the other reasons, I just can't figure out how a country which time and again refuses to abide by UN laws could stomach an attack against another country and refer to this... I mean, you refuse to accept the convention against torture and the convention for children's rights, you have said several times that you won't give up US citizens to international courts no matter what the prosecution case and so on.
I mean, you are throwing fucking BOULDERS from your glass house.

[4urentertainment]

At 10/1/08 04:18 PM, Sajberhippien wrote:

At 10/1/08 03:00 PM, Oblivia wrote: Saddam needed to be ousted like committing crimes against humanity by killing the Kurds and instigating against UN laws, at least from what I hear.

While I could get the other reasons, I just can't figure out how a country which time and again refuses to abide by UN laws could stomach an attack against another country and refer to this... I mean, you refuse to accept the convention against torture and the convention for children's rights, you have said several times that you won't give up US citizens to international courts no matter what the prosecution case and so on.
I mean, you are throwing fucking BOULDERS from your glass house.

We wish to abide by our religion's laws, we don't want other laws interfering that's the problem.

The Arab world wants to make its own laws. Why not let it?.

[Musician]

At 10/1/08 04:55 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: We wish to abide by our religion's laws, we don't want other laws interfering that's the problem.

The Arab world wants to make its own laws. Why not let it?.

Allegedly we are. We're trying to instate a Democratic government in Iraq which will allow the people to elect their representatives and shape the law, instead of dictators.

[4urentertainment]

At 10/1/08 06:01 PM, Musician wrote:

At 10/1/08 04:55 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: We wish to abide by our religion's laws, we don't want other laws interfering that's the problem.

The Arab world wants to make its own laws. Why not let it?.

Allegedly we are. We're trying to instate a Democratic government in Iraq which will allow the people to elect their representatives and shape the law, instead of dictators.

That's all good and nice. But why is America attacking those "terrorists" in Iraq when all those terrorists want is for America to leave us alone and live by the rules of Islam.

In trying to "help" Iraq, they are making matters worse, they all just want America to leave.

[Musician]

At 10/1/08 06:10 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: That's all good and nice. But why is America attacking those "terrorists" in Iraq when all those terrorists want is for America to leave us alone and live by the rules of Islam.

In trying to "help" Iraq, they are making matters worse, they all just want America to leave.

The argument is that if we pull out now the secular violence will increase if we leave Iraq, and that the weakened Iraqi military wont be able to prevent the toppling of their government, which will most likely end with Iraq becoming a Theocracy or a Dictatorship.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 10/1/08 06:18 PM, Musician wrote:

The argument is that if we pull out now the secular violence will increase if we leave Iraq, and that the weakened Iraqi military wont be able to prevent the toppling of their government, which will most likely end with Iraq becoming a Theocracy or a Dictatorship.

I'm pretty sure you mean sectarian violence. But Yeh basically.

[Musician]

At 10/1/08 06:39 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I'm pretty sure you mean sectarian violence. But Yeh basically.

Yeah, That's what I meant. Not that I necessarily agree that the US should stay there, I just thought I should clarify the US's argument.

[Kriegmann]

It saddens me to see all of our brave soldiers there, almost dieing for no cause. It would seem like pulling out of Iraq would be the right thing to do, but where can we get our oil from?

I'm 16 years old, I'm Canadian, and I am concerned for the soldiers in Iraq if they should just pull out of there or attempt to keep the peace.

Canadian tolls read an estimated 3416, 795 non-combat deaths and over 28000 injured.
What makes it really sad is the fact that those poor fuckers out there are dieing from the most simplest of roadside bombs, and haven't even fired a single round yet at any attacking insurgents.
Fucking oil I say.

[AbsurdRandomness]

At 10/1/08 06:10 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: In trying to "help" Iraq, they are making matters worse, they all just want America to leave.

I'm pretty sure polls have claimed that a majority of Iraqis support the war for their cause... not sure what the recent polls claim, though

[kraor024]

Why are people so focused on Iraq, their government is telling us to get out so we will be out soon regardless.
Just out of curiosity why do you never hear about Afghanistan we have a fair ammont of resources there so why is everyone focused on a country our troops are leaving?

[Oblivia]

At 10/1/08 04:04 PM, 4urentertainment wrote:

At 10/1/08 03:00 PM, Oblivia wrote: This our objective in a nutshell:

1. Get rid of Saddam.
2. Create a democratic government in Iraq.
3. Support Iraq until it can handle itself.
4. Get out.

The claim was that Saddam Hussein had WMD's but we failed to find any due to faulty information. There are also other reason's of why Saddam needed to be ousted like committing crimes against humanity by killing the Kurds and instigating against UN laws, at least from what I hear.

So basically your saying that America wants to help Iraq?

Then how come all the Arab countries are outraged at the situation and they say that even Iraq wants it America to leave.

I believe the reason behind this is because the fact that the US is an ally to Israel and use that as an excuse to hire proxy groups to start shit in Iraq.

And the person who said they stopped hearing about Iraq, did you click on the link in my first post?

[tufuelhuden1918]

I'll tell you What I know....
The terrorist want us out because we invaded there land, back in the 80's the Saudi family wanted us to help them protect them and there oil (not to take it!!) When Iraq invaded Kuwait they started to invade Saudi. Bin laden offered his services to the Saudi family, but the family said "why have 100 troops when we can have 100,000 troops?" Bin Laden was pissed! He later attacked the Saudi family and was basically excommunicated from Saudi Arabia and now he has a grudge with us [America]. We now that Islamic and Muslim extremist come from Saudi along the "rat" line into Iraq. These people are brain washed and sent to kill us [American] troops.

[adrshepard]

"Ehh they only want us out! The terrorists are victims of our imperialism"

Christ, what a bunch of whining pussies! The facts are these:
1. We invaded based upon very suggestive intelligence which was even more compelling based on 12 years of frustration with Saddam. No compelling evidence of manipulation, cherry-picking, or misconduct relating to intelligence and personnel on the part of the Bush administration has ever been found. The financial benefits of oil contracts are miniscule in comparison to the actual costs so far. Even against the optimistic preliminary cost estimates from the adminstration (50-100 billion, I think), a huge misinformation campaign and the almost complete employment of the US military hardly seems the most practical way to give money to oil companies.
2. After the capture of Baghdad, the overwhelming of Iraqis DID cheer us in the streets. The rapid fall of Baghdad and the subsequent rioting do not reflect a highly resistant populace. It only took some Saddam loyalists, jihadists, and other riff-raff to ruin things and provoke sectarian violence. The mandate to limit civilian deaths prevents any substantial effort to crack down on them, short of using hundreds of thousands of men to patrol everywhere all the time, a solution far outside US capabilities both logisitically and financially.
3. It is natural that the Iraqis and many Middle-Eastern nations would want the US to leave. The Iraqis demand a more visible sovereignty, and the US presence is a highly complicating factor for Iraq's neighbors and undoubtedly harries their influence there.
4. The enemy we face in Iraq is not motivated by simple resentment at our presence. They are threatened by the very existence of a democratic government that is too closely allied with the US and western ideas. Religious and financial motivations come into play as well. Anything they can do to undermine it will be done, and they do not hesitate to kill innocent people to make it look weak. Let's be clear in that their objective is not one that benefits the Iraqi people by any means normal people would deem legitimate (they would probably say they are saving Iraqis from corruption and exploitation through a return of healthy Muslim lifestyles).
5. No evidence of nepotism among corporations and the Bush administration in conducting this war has ever emerged. That includes Halliburton, whose hiring was later confirmed justified by the GAO.
6. There is no concrete objective or quantifiable plan the US can achieve or follow in Iraq right now because so much of it depends on emerging Iraqi capabilities. All that the US can do is support the Iraqi government and military as much as possible and for as long as possible. The troop deployment will inevitably decline soon no matter who wins the presidency because soldiers will not be forced en masse to take more than 2 or 3 tours.

That is the Iraq War in a nutshell. That the US is the "bad guy" simply doesn't correspond to the facts. Investigations have cleared the Bush administration, violence levels undermine claims of a nation-wide violent resistance, and the victims of attacks cast doubt on many proposed motivations.