Black Monday

[Achilles2]

Today, September 29th 2008, has been deemed "Black Monday". The US House of Representatives rejected the bailout plan, and now nobody knows what the hell is going to be done to stop this financial crisis from continuing. Dow Jones has dropped over 700 points, so there is no doubt that the media is correct in calling this a Stock Market Crash.

Meanwhile, the Reserve Banks of nations across the world, from Asia to North America, have been constantly injecting money to their stock markets but it isn't doing anything. Over $200 Billion has been invested into the stock markets.

Also read: Article #1, Article #2, Article #3

Furthermore, John McCain is saying that Obama is playing politics as usual and not doing anything to support the bailout plan. This is completely ignoring the fact that, instead of getting to work, McCain is at his campaign headquarters attacking Obama and he was seen out on a date with his wife yesterday night.

Reference for the above paragraph.

Why use this crisis as a mud-slinging tournament? Congress needs to get shit done instead of saying "You should've done something earlier!" "No, you should've!" like a bunch of 40 + year-old babies. Congress is the opposite of Progress, if you ask me.

Thoughts? Comments? Discussion?

[Memorize]

Because, you know, Obama calling McCain's going to Washington to help with the deal, wasn't "attacking", lol.

[Achilles2]

At 9/29/08 04:02 PM, Memorize wrote: Because, you know, Obama calling McCain's going to Washington to help with the deal, wasn't "attacking", lol.

Did you even read the goddamn last paragraph? This isn't about Republican and Democrat, because both Republicans and Democrats will suffer due to the stupidity of Democrat and Republican Congress members.

[RaharuHaruha]

At 9/29/08 04:04 PM, Achilles2 wrote: Did you even read the goddamn last paragraph? This isn't about Republican and Democrat, because both Republicans and Democrats will suffer due to the stupidity of Democrat and Republican Congress members.

Rofl.

[Truth]

At 9/29/08 03:55 PM, Achilles2 wrote: Thoughts? Comments? Discussion?

America is screwed

[Memorize]

At 9/29/08 04:04 PM, Achilles2 wrote:

Did you even read the goddamn last paragraph? This isn't about Republican and Democrat, because both Republicans and Democrats will suffer due to the stupidity of Democrat and Republican Congress members.

That certainly explains the shot at McCain only in the middle of your rambling.

[Achilles2]

At 9/29/08 04:22 PM, Memorize wrote: That certainly explains the shot at McCain only in the middle of your rambling.

That shot was against the people playing politics, and McCain was the most prominent among those people. Obama actually was getting shit done, unlike McCain. If Obama simply sat there and attacked McCain, then I'd criticize him too.

[SolInvictus]

At 9/29/08 04:17 PM, Truth wrote:

At 9/29/08 03:55 PM, Achilles2 wrote: Thoughts? Comments? Discussion?

America is screwed

yup, because the Great Depression destroyed America and everyone knows this is just like it.

[Memorize]

At 9/29/08 04:26 PM, Achilles2 wrote:

That shot was against the people playing politics, and McCain was the most prominent among those people. Obama actually was getting shit done, unlike McCain. If Obama simply sat there and attacked McCain, then I'd criticize him too.

McCain suspends his campaign to go over and do his job... Obama objects... and Obama is getting shit done?

LOL

[Musician]

At 9/29/08 04:43 PM, SolInvictus wrote: yup, because the Great Depression destroyed America and everyone knows this is just like it.

I can't believe you actually just tried to downplay the Great Depression.

[Musician]

At 9/29/08 04:56 PM, Memorize wrote: McCain suspends his campaign to go over and do his job... Obama objects... and Obama is getting shit done?

LOL

I wouldn't call what McCain did "suspending" his campaign, considering that he gave interviews and speeches for his campaign after he "suspended" it, instead of rushing out to Washington like he claimed he was doing to Letterman. It was more of a political ploy to try to look good while getting out of the debate at the same time, which totally backfired on him.

And I know Obama isn't totally exempt from playing politics, but he certainly has been doing it a hell of a lot less than McCain has.

[Rideo]

At 9/29/08 04:22 PM, Memorize wrote: That certainly explains the shot at McCain only in the middle of your rambling.

Can't you leave behind your stupid biases to even properly read the topic?

" Why use this crisis as a mud-slinging tournament? Congress needs to get shit done instead of saying "You should've done something earlier!" "No, you should've!" like a bunch of 40 + year-old babies. Congress is the opposite of Progress, if you ask me."

It's called an example, christ get your head out of your ass and discuss the topic.

I remember telling a friend that the next president will be going through a great depression, I remember her not believing things were nearly that bad with the economy and she even asked "I mean has it even directed you or anyone you know directly?" Coming from a fairly rich family I couldn't say it affects me much, the next month or so her house got foreclosed on. Now it seems like it's happening to everyone.

[MortifiedPenguins]

People, this is nowhere close to the Great Depression. People seem to forget that during the Great Depression we had a unemployment rate of 33%, as in 1 out of every 3 people was out of a job. As in there was soup lines out on the streets, as in the Grapes of Wrath was happening on the streets.

This is a financial crisis, a Banking and Loans crisis of the 00's. As in yes, this will be a recession like Stagflation of the 70's or inflation of the 80's as in we will have some lean times coming up.

But please, stop comparing this to the depression. Honestly, when we have people living in Hoovervilles, hoping trains to get to work and migrating along Route 65 to California in old jalopy's then we can say it's as bad as the depression.

[morefngdbs]

Well maybe its about time that REALITY gets back on track.
Do any of you really believe a top executive should be paid millions of dollars a month to run a company they don't own?
That an apartment in New York City is really worth a couple million dollars for a 2000 sq ft?
That oil should be over inflated on the market when its selling in Saudi Arabia for at most this year $47.00 U.S. a barrel (speculators added the other $100.00 in cost.)
Fuck Them.
Why would anyone want to beggar their country to pay off the bad dept of a bunch of crooked bankers. Who have finally been caught violently sodomising the piggy bank.

They've created their own meltdown through absolute greed.
Look at Enron...Look at Bre X...Look at how little the Japanese bail out of their banks has actually helped ! They're back in trouble...bail outs work for the short term...what you going to do, keep issueing money until it takes 100 BILLION U.S. dollars to buy 3 eggs ?
That's what has happened in the past, just last year in Zimbabwe, before WW2 in Germany.

Let the market find its way back.
So what if a bunch of stock speculators & banking types lose their highly over paid positions .
Of course there'll be slowdowns & work layoffs, but they were coming anyway...your downturn in the housing market was a sure sign...devaluing property values is another good signal.
Its going to hurt in the short term, but in the long term we'll be better off.

[SolInvictus]

At 9/29/08 04:58 PM, Musician wrote:

At 9/29/08 04:43 PM, SolInvictus wrote: yup, because the Great Depression destroyed America and everyone knows this is just like it.

I can't believe you actually just tried to downplay the Great Depression.

i can't believe its not butter!

turn your sarcasm detector on.

[aviewaskewed]

At 9/29/08 04:56 PM, Memorize wrote: McCain suspends his campaign to go over and do his job... Obama objects... and Obama is getting shit done?

LOL

And when Congress asked McCain to leave, because he was actually HINDERING the process, he goes right back to his campaign and slings mud at Obama. I'm not saying Obama is perfect or God like, but I don't think you can really look at anything McCain says as anything other then a desperate old man throwing stones at a guy he's pretty sure is gonna beat him.

Obama isn't really getting a ton done, true. But at least he's not standing around and trying to act like he is, and the other guy is a horrible douche who isn't.

[BrianEtrius]

At 9/29/08 06:43 PM, SevenSeize wrote:

I'll trade ya'll an ox for a bushel of grain.

Shall I start the "Dear Laura Bush" letters again?

[Der-Lowe]

At 9/29/08 05:36 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: People, this is nowhere close to the Great Depression. People seem to forget that during the Great Depression we had a unemployment rate of 33%, as in 1 out of every 3 people was out of a job. As in there was soup lines out on the streets, as in the Grapes of Wrath was happening on the streets.

That was after the markets collapse. The Great Depression was caused due to a collapse of the Banking crisis, because the monetary and regulatory policies of the Fed failed. The crisis has just started, and so far, it's IDENTICAL to the Great Depression. That's why Bernanke urged the Congress not to screw things up and pass the plan, because he knows what the US economy is facing.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 9/29/08 05:36 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: People, this is nowhere close to the Great Depression. People seem to forget that during the Great Depression we had a unemployment rate of 33%, as in 1 out of every 3 people was out of a job. As in there was soup lines out on the streets, as in the Grapes of Wrath was happening on the streets.

This is a financial crisis, a Banking and Loans crisis of the 00's. As in yes, this will be a recession like Stagflation of the 70's or inflation of the 80's as in we will have some lean times coming up.

But please, stop comparing this to the depression. Honestly, when we have people living in Hoovervilles, hoping trains to get to work and migrating along Route 65 to California in old jalopy's then we can say it's as bad as the depression.

i agree that this is blown out of proportion, and the fact that people are calling it a depression more over signifies their desparation for a bail out than anything else... However, the great depression didn't start with 33% unemployment, lots of people were unemployed over night this is true, but it started with a stock market crash and got continually worse.

[yinyangman]

To John McCRAP! (I mean McCain)

Just because B.Obama is playing politics does not mean he's treating the election as the 1975 superbowl or a game of Monopoly!

You thought of this bailout, sure, I don't see why some people are opposing you. If not, KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THIS IDEA!! You did nothing! You caused the bailout to fail-out! Therefore, YOU are the reason America or the globe is about to endure a 2nd Great Depression!

[dySWN]

At 9/29/08 09:59 PM, yinyangman wrote: To John McCRAP! (I mean McCain)

Just because B.Obama is playing politics does not mean he's treating the election as the 1975 superbowl or a game of Monopoly!

You thought of this bailout, sure, I don't see why some people are opposing you. If not, KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THIS IDEA!! You did nothing! You caused the bailout to fail-out! Therefore, YOU are the reason America or the globe is about to endure a 2nd Great Depression!

Biased post is biased. Try backing your statements up with facts next time. Or, better yet, go practice on the general board before posting.

Neither Obama nor McCain should be trying to take credit for the bailout bill. McCain's supporters shouldn't back the bill because it'll expand government, and Obama's supporters shouldn't back the bill because it tells big businesses that the government will just step in when they don't earn enough. Plus, the bill is unpopular with the voters and constitutes a huge piece of pro-socialism legislation.

We need a solution to this market crisis, but I'm not sure that this latest bill is the fix we need. Of course, I suppose we could just ride it out like we did in the '80's, but I would imagine that the folks up in Washington, being mostly rich businessmen themselves, would be loathe to allow that.

[Char-chi]

If Bush didnt take the time out to play golf constantly and eat pie, then america wouldnt be in the wonderful state it is now. America just needs to find a new master in cheif that isnt more interested in their own enjoyment and can actually do their job. good luck, your gon need it.

[dySWN]

At 9/29/08 10:23 PM, Char-chi wrote: If Bush didnt take the time out to play golf constantly and eat pie, then america wouldnt be in the wonderful state it is now. America just needs to find a new master in cheif that isnt more interested in their own enjoyment and can actually do their job.

I don't see any of those kinds of presidents in our near future - all we have going for us right now is a pair of empty suits.

[Memorize]

At 9/29/08 06:37 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

Obama isn't really getting a ton done, true. But at least he's not standing around and trying to act like he is, and the other guy is a horrible douche who isn't.

You do realize that it was Harry Reid who demanded McCain do something about the Republicans who weren't on board, right?

[JudgeDredd]

At 9/29/08 04:17 PM, Truth wrote:

At 9/29/08 03:55 PM, Achilles2 wrote: Thoughts? Comments? Discussion?

America is screwed

Just raise the governments debt ceiling and everything will be sweet!

/sarcasm

[cellardoor6]

At 9/30/08 01:28 AM, JudgeDredd wrote:

At 9/29/08 04:17 PM, Truth wrote:

At 9/29/08 03:55 PM, Achilles2 wrote: Thoughts? Comments? Discussion?

America is screwed

Just raise the governments debt ceiling and everything will be sweet!

Just keep focusing on the US to help you ignore your own problems and everything will be sweet!

/sarcasm

/sarcasm

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 9/29/08 07:32 PM, Der-Lowe wrote:

At 9/29/08 05:36 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

That was after the markets collapse. The Great Depression was caused due to a collapse of the Banking crisis, because the monetary and regulatory policies of the Fed failed. The crisis has just started, and so far, it's IDENTICAL to the Great Depression. That's why Bernanke urged the Congress not to screw things up and pass the plan, because he knows what the US economy is facing.

While not being one to point out the failures of Federal Agencies in economics (what I can't even get a laugh anymore), I can see the writing on the wall. Yes, the slowdown of the movement of capital and the Stock Markets drop are all earliely similar, many of the situations that helped to push the Great Depression into an even worse situation (I'm not going to go into all of the war debt circle that was established with Germany, France/UK, and the US after WW1), the increased rise of protective tarriff's by both the US and Europe and Europe's overwhelming view to hold onto a balanced budget during this crisis, were a one time event that shouldn't have any impact on todays world and market.

Most world economies seem to enjoy one sided Keynsian economics as well as a more globalized, free trade. Along with this comes the economic strength and increasingly prominent EU and all of it's power and (if anyone forgets the true reason for the US actually getting out of the Depression) we have to massive military operations that will supply the much needed capital that is needed.

If worse comes to worse, this might be an excellent time for us to do some much needed internal improvements a la FDR CCC. We could always use new parks, repaired bridges and roads etc etc.

[PineappleWinnie]

The problem is that everytime that a major market crash has happened in history, a major war has followed few years after, as everyone begins to accuse everyone else, thus leading to revolutions, communism, fascism, patriotism, and nationalism, all very valid recipes for a major war. I think that war in part re-activates economies, and in part draw people's attention away from the crisis...

[MultiCanimefan]

Fingers pointed at America from all over the world:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26962762

[Der-Lowe]

At 9/30/08 11:53 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 9/29/08 07:32 PM, Der-Lowe wrote:

While not being one to point out the failures of Federal Agencies in economics (what I can't even get a laugh anymore), I can see the writing on the wall. Yes, the slowdown of the movement of capital and the Stock Markets drop are all earliely similar, many of the situations that helped to push the Great Depression into an even worse situation (I'm not going to go into all of the war debt circle that was established with Germany, France/UK, and the US after WW1), the increased rise of protective tarriff's by both the US and Europe and Europe's overwhelming view to hold onto a balanced budget during this crisis, were a one time event that shouldn't have any impact on todays world and market.

Although you have to consider that this complementary negative situations have not disappeared, but faced a new, more modern, turn. This could be a turning point for the tendency the US has had for the recent years to spend excessively, facing cheap imports, which could have a devastating effect on the rest of the world a la multiplier, along with the contracting credit the crisis is already causing.

Most world economies seem to enjoy one sided Keynsian economics

What do you mean by one-sided Keynesian Economics?

as well as a more globalized, free trade. Along with this comes the economic strength and increasingly prominent EU and all of it's power and (if anyone forgets the true reason for the US actually getting out of the Depression) we have to massive military operations that will supply the much needed capital that is needed.

I doubt whether an expansive military budget would indeed help, or even suceed to being approved; the effect of military build-ups has been smaller and smaller with time (becoming negative with Iraq), and the populace seems reluctant to accept an increased military spending.

If worse comes to worse, this might be an excellent time for us to do some much needed internal improvements a la FDR CCC. We could always use new parks, repaired bridges and roads etc etc.

Have you even heard about "intelligent highways" Chile has them, and I hear you have none. It'd be a nice pharaohnic endeavor.