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At 3/22/09 06:39 PM, vdviking wrote: *** Most of you might have realised that the title of Thul, I'd wouldn't mind having myself.

Yes, I agree you would be the most able Thul out of any of us. However, that still leaves us with the problem of who should be named Jarl. But your order seems sound and I like the keeping to the Norse names. How should we decide on our Jarl though? A vote?

At 3/22/09 11:03 PM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote: How should we decide on our Jarl though? A vote?

Or go by seniority. Which you make you Jarl, you were in already on the first page and are still here.

I've realised that I missed on possible title. Any House Carl, Stambo, Jarl or Thul who is irtistically adepyt (i.e can write good stories, songs or poems or even draw or paint good pictures related to Vikings), should be allowed to add the title Skald to their name.

I've also gone through the last 10 pages of the thread to try and figure out how many members there are in the Viking Army. The results are disappointing.

Active members;
HeavyTank
DeathNoteetoNhtaeD
vdviking
Centurion-Ryan (but not very active, and no Army link in the sig)
DasUberCow (same as above)
sirtom93 (who has removed the Army link from his sig, perhaps a sign he is not planning to return)

Those who have expressed an interest in joining;
wildface098
SounWave23
SlntCobra1
Rih
FrakenBourrough (has put Army link in sig)
homor
Torkelson

At 3/23/09 07:02 AM, vdviking wrote: I've realised that I missed on possible title. Any House Carl, Stambo, Jarl or Thul who is irtistically adepyt (i.e can write good stories, songs or poems or even draw or paint good pictures related to Vikings), should be allowed to add the title Skald to their name.

Another good idea.

I've also gone through the last 10 pages of the thread to try and figure out how many members there are in the Viking Army. The results are disappointing.

And yes...that's not good. Only 13 members, 6 of which are remotely active? Yes, I'd say disappointing would be an understatement. And on the topic of seniority deciding Jarl, it makes sense in theory, but my recent lull in activity worries me. But then again, it seems to me by your list that the only two capable of being Jarl would be HeavyTank and I. Well, we'll hold off on it until HeavyTank gives us his input.

At 3/22/09 06:39 PM, vdviking wrote: It looks like Sirtom93 may be away from the Viking Army for a while, and I've been thinking about a reorganisation of the Viking Army, while still maintaining Sirtom's idea of a Viking Style.

I agree with that, totally.

My proposal is that the leader is to be named Jarl* (pronounced "iarl" or "yarl")
The Jarl can appoint one or more Stambo, who has the power to act in his name (formerly known as nobles).
An accepted member of the Viking Army is to be named a House Carl or perhaps Carl.
New applicants are to be named Svein, until they proven themselves worthy.

Alright, but l am detecting a minor flaw...who will nominate the Jarl since our leader is gone?

People who for some reason or another disrespect the Viking Army, or any of it's members is to be named Niding**, and should be ignored by all members of the Viking Army (no answering threads or pms, ignore them), if judged so by the Jarl.

Uh-uh

Finally I'd like to introduce the title of Thul, meaning "speaker" or "sage", which should be held by someone who is knowledgeable of the Viking ways and who should act as a advisor to the whole Viking Army as necessary.***

Hehe, you build this place for you, didn't you ;-)

Chain of command
Jarl
Stambo
House Carl/Carl
Svein

Niding

Thul on the side with no real power.

A Thul could be a Stambo too!

This is my proposal, have a think about it and in a while we can have a vote of to introduce it or not. As per Sirtom's decision the nobles are in charge.

I vote yes...wait, did you say the nobles are in charge?
Yay for that.

* Jarl has the same etymological background as the English "Earl".

Yeah, it soulded too similar to be a coincidence :D

Now, l would like to introduce another concept...weapons and armor.
Yep.
If the members agree, I could search and find some sets of armor and weapons, obviously depending on the user's rank..you can choose among some categories yet to be made by me with the help of some other nobles and Vdviking for some historical accuracy (but let's not overdo it alright? :P)

So, what do you say?

At 3/23/09 03:55 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Alright, but l am detecting a minor flaw...who will nominate the Jarl since our leader is gone?

Well, either by vote or seniority. I think those two are our only options.

Finally I'd like to introduce the title of Thul, meaning "speaker" or "sage", which should be held by someone who is knowledgeable of the Viking ways and who should act as a advisor to the whole Viking Army as necessary.

Hehe, you build this place for you, didn't you ;-)

One has to look out for oneself.

Thul on the side with no real power.

A Thul could be a Stambo too!

Yes who not, but I rather like to think of a Thul as an old white bearded wise man standing by the Jarl's side in the hall, not a Stambo in the front ranks of a battle.

Now, l would like to introduce another concept...weapons and armor.
Yep.
If the members agree, I could search and find some sets of armor and weapons, obviously depending on the user's rank..you can choose among some categories yet to be made by me with the help of some other nobles and Vdviking for some historical accuracy (but let's not overdo it alright? :P)

So, what do you say?

Sounds like a fun idea! Perhaps it can help draw more members to the Viking Army.

At 3/23/09 04:58 PM, vdviking wrote: Sounds like a fun idea! Perhaps it can help draw more members to the Viking Army.

Personally, I think it delves a bit too much into role-playing territory, which from my experience is frowned upon in these forums, but as long as that's as far as it goes, it should be harmless enough. And I hope it draws more interest, as we seriously need it.

We're more of a company than an Army at this point.

At 3/23/09 05:15 PM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote:

We're more of a company than an Army at this point.

Hell, we're hardly more than a squad.

At 3/23/09 04:58 PM, vdviking wrote:
Well, either by vote or seniority. I think those two are our only options.

OK....l vote to vote by vote.

One has to look out for oneself.

Lol

Yes who not, but I rather like to think of a Thul as an old white bearded wise man standing by the Jarl's side in the hall, not a Stambo in the front ranks of a battle.

As you wish..it's your place...

Sounds like a fun idea! Perhaps it can help draw more members to the Viking Army.

Alright then!
I will have the stuff ready in 24 hours max.

At 3/24/09 07:36 AM, HeavyTank wrote: Alright then!
I will have the stuff ready in 24 hours max.

Well, it was more than 24 hours but l had some stuff to do.
So, here is the virst version.
You can approve, make some changes, whatever you want with this draft:

The new recruits will have to choose between

this sword, this mace and this bow.
Of course "this" is not referred to that specific weapon, but that weapon category (and level of bling :P ).
When you are an official member you may choose between light and heavy armor.

Your weapon choices as a Noble are the following: cool shortsword , a warhammer (or both of them), a shield, waraxe (2 hands), halberd, longsword.

More stuff wil be added soon and l will make a photoshop image of all available stuff..
Leader and Sage (l don't remember the term right now) stuff will be decided when the new leader is elected.
I know some of this stuff isn't very "viking" but there was very little range of REAL viking weapon pics, and they weren't very cool...

At 3/25/09 01:37 PM, HeavyTank wrote: I know some of this stuff isn't very "viking" but there was very little range of REAL viking weapon pics, and they weren't very cool...

As long as you realized it yourself. And I agree, a vote would be the fairest way of deciding a leader. The only problem that I foresee with it is the minimal amount of people that would make an able leader to vote for. I don't know of being Thul takes vdviking out of the running for Jarl, but if it does, that leaves only you and I that are regularly active. And who knows when the others get on so we could have their vote. They don't post regularly enough that I could count on them to vote in a timely manner. So, where does this leave us?

At 3/25/09 05:06 PM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote: stuff

Hmm..unfortunately you are right, we have to do some advertising to recruit more people...

A vote for the Jarl is of course the most democratic way, but there are so few of us that it hardly makes any sense. But we soon have to make a decision.

One person could be both Jarl and Thul, but since we are so few I'm against giving to many titles to one person.

At 3/26/09 03:08 AM, vdviking wrote:
One person could be both Jarl and Thul, but since we are so few I'm against giving to many titles to one person.

Or we could invent some new titles :)

At 3/26/09 03:48 AM, HeavyTank wrote:

At 3/26/09 03:08 AM, vdviking wrote:
One person could be both Jarl and Thul, but since we are so few I'm against giving to many titles to one person.

Or we could invent some new titles :)

OK I promise when the Viking Army reaches 100 members, I will look into having more titles. ;)

Here's something I've been working on for a couple of weeks, it's about Viking weapons and armour.
It should in NO way be seen as any criticism towards HeavyTank's proposed equipment.

VIKING WAR GEAR
Most of you already know that I'm something of a stickler for historical correctness about Vikings, so here are some more facts this time about Viking war gear.

Let's start from the top shall we. There's preciously little known about Viking era helmets, and only a few has been found. Those that have been found are usually from the time before the Viking Era. Take a look at this page - http://www.viking-shield.com/helmets.htm l - while the helmets are beautifully made the only true Viking helmets are the Gjermundbu helmets (A1028, A1039 and A1037), while the leather helmet (A1018) may give the answer to why so few Viking helmets have been found. They were made out of a less durable material than steel. Chances are that the head protection Vikings used were made out of leather or heavy cloth.

Then onto the body. While the common picture of a Viking is of a warrior in a chainmail, the truth is that only the wealthy could afford such a thing. Most Vikings would wear a hauberk (covering from elbow to neck to knee - http://histvarld.historiska.se/histvarld /draekter/vkrigare/ringbrynja.html - ) of heavy cloth, perhaps with rings, studs or small metal plates added for extra protection. This is substantiated by the fact that while Viking infantry fought like heavy infantry because of skill and ferocity, they were treated strategically like light infantry because of its speed and mobility. There are several myths about chain hauberks, and one common thing is that they are so heavy that only this or that hero or king can wear it, and also that they were named, implying that chain hauberks were very few and expensive. And like the helmets there are few archaeological finds of Viking era chain hauberks. On this page - http://histvarld.historiska.se/histvarld /draekter/vkrigare/ringbrynja.html - you can se how a Viking leader might have looked, except for perhaps the boots. Here's another picture of a Viking in full battle gear - http://hem.bredband.net/pixel/sida1-5-1_
sve.htm.

The Vikings doesn't seem to have put to much effort into protecting their feet. They wore simple leather shoes with no sole, and no leg guards. My guess is that they relied on their shields to protect the legs, and again it is in line with mobility.

The Viking round shield was a little special compared to their contemporary European counterparts in that they were very light. While being quite large, approximately one metre or so across, they were thin. And with only a central grip, protected by a metal boss, this gave the Viking warriors a very mobile defensive weapon. The Viking style of shield combat was to deflect the blow with the shield, not let the shield absorb the blow. Of course the shields were destroyed after a while but it was common practise to carry more than one shield into battle, the reserve was then carried on the back. The metal boss were often adorned, and would be moved from shield to shield. Read a lot more about shields here - http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandp eter/shield/shield.html.

And now to the fun part - weaponry. The most common arms of the Viking were axe, spear and bow. Why so you might ask? Well the answer is quite simply that when they weren't fighting they were farmers, hunters and woodsmen. The axe was not the axe for cutting down trees, but the axe for cutting planks and the like. A bit lighter and with a narrower head. Look at XH2043 here - http://www.gavelins.com/sword/me1-51.htm l. But the Vikings also developed a fearsome bearded battle (skäggyxa in Swedish) - http://www.gavelins.com/sword/me1-41.htm l - which came to become the symbol of Vikings for many of their opponents. On this picture - http://www.scanglas.se/www/img/s041.jpg - the left axe is a bearded axe and the middle is a so called "frakka", a heavy throwing axe the Vikings adopted from the Franks (the people of France). The fighting style with the frakka was to throw it at the opponents shield, and while he recovered from the impact you could rush in close and finish him off with your main weapon.

Viking spears were quite heavy, with long and broad heads, and were used both to thrust and to throw. Here you can see a short variant - http://www.gavelins.com/sword/me1-71.htm l - and here a longer one - http://www.gavelins.com/sword/me1-40.htm l.

The bows the Vikings favoured were long yew bows, quite strong bows that require a strong arm to draw, but simple in construction. Arrow heads came in many variants, including short and strong ones designed to punch through heavy armour and barbed ones designed to make them difficult to remove from the wound, to long and thin ones designed for use against light armour or chain.

Swords were expensive, and thus only owned and handled by the rich, or those who were warriors only. Many sagas and myths have been written about swords, and it seems that it was quite common to give your sword a name. The sword that is most associated with Vikings is the long sword, approximately a yard long, double edged and with a strong point for thrusting.

Below a few links to nice looking swords.
http://www.viking.se/productimages.php?i ProductId=1355&iImageId=
http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/swords/2100.jpg
http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/swords/2101.jpg
http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/swords/2102.jpg
http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/swords/2103.jpg
http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/swords/2104.jpg
http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/swords/2105.jpg

Another not uncommon sword type was the sax or seax - http://www.albion-swords.com/images/scab bards/ams0030-001a.jpg - which was single edged and of a much simpler and older design than the long sword. For one thing they were usually hammered into shape cold, and were developed during the elder iron age (500 B.C. -550 A.D.). While the sax shape was replaced by the more modern double edged sword, it was still popular as a knife or dagger shape. A picture of how a Viking knife might have looked - www.vikingakniv.lods.net/gallery/004b.jp g. The sax/seax got it's name from the Saxons.

A few hints on how to find good pictures of Viking weapons.
1. Use Swedish - i.e. sword = svärd, axe = yxa, spear = spjut, helmet = hjälm, shield = sköld.
Of course the internet cares nothing about dots above letters, so just use the undotted form.

2. Use Swedish grammar. In Swedish we write the words together as one. So for example a search for a Viking sword would in Swedish be "vikingasvard". But a search with the words separated, i.e. "vikinga svard" can also give good hits.

At 3/26/09 04:57 AM, vdviking wrote: It should in NO way be seen as any criticism towards HeavyTank's proposed equipment.

Calm down, l told you, l have no problem with that.

VIKING WAR GEAR
Most of you already know that I'm something of a stickler for historical correctness about Vikings, so here are some more facts this time about Viking war gear.

:)

A few hints on how to find good pictures of Viking weapons.
1. Use Swedish - i.e. sword = svärd, axe = yxa, spear = spjut, helmet = hjälm, shield = sköld.
Of course the internet cares nothing about dots above letters, so just use the undotted form.

..only you can do this here :(

2. Use Swedish grammar.

Same as above.

The pictures were very nice, and l am starting to photoshop the project now.
It will be ready in some days.

Alright people, all the images are ready:
this one here contains the stuff that only nobles can have.
The armor thingy is on another image.
Tell me what you think (again, l threw historical accuracy out of the window for more coolness)

At 3/27/09 02:23 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Alright people, all the images are ready:
this one here contains the stuff that only nobles can have.
The armor thingy is on another image.
Tell me what you think (again, l threw historical accuracy out of the window for more coolness)

Uuuh..quality on NG sucks ass, but you get the point...
When you choose your weapons and armor l can photoshop it for you, or send you the original images.
Here is the noble armor image

At 3/27/09 02:25 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Uuuh..quality on NG sucks ass, but you get the point...
When you choose your weapons and armor l can photoshop it for you, or send you the original images.
Here is the noble armor image

OK, final pic, this one needs some polishing but the idea is that thew stuff on the left side is for new members, ands the stuff on the right side is for official members.
You will see the difference, don't worry :P

At 3/27/09 02:25 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Here is the noble armor image

Le gasp! Guild Wars armor! Sorry, just thought I'd throw that out there. And don't worry about the quality, we can get the jist of it, I think. Also; at least you've put forth an effort. You and vdviking both. I'm just kind of sitting here, a physical manifestation of the current limbo the Army is in.

At 3/27/09 04:54 PM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote: Le gasp! Guild Wars armor! Sorry, just thought I'd throw that out there. And don't worry about the quality, we can get the jist of it, I think. Also; at least you've put forth an effort. You and vdviking both. I'm just kind of sitting here, a physical manifestation of the current limbo the Army is in.

What's wrong with GW armor?I used to have that armor back when l was playing that game.. :D
Well, about the sitting thing, you can do whatever you want, nobody is making you do anything (interpret that in a positive way-not in the "nobody is forcing you to stay here" kind of way), what l made was my idea so...

At 3/27/09 05:20 PM, HeavyTank wrote: What's wrong with GW armor?

Nothing, I was just pointing it out.

I used to have that armor back when l was playing that game.. :D

And you stopped because...?

Well, about the sitting thing, you can do whatever you want, nobody is making you do anything (interpret that in a positive way-not in the "nobody is forcing you to stay here" kind of way), what l made was my idea so...

I know, and generally I enjoy being lazy, but it's just, I feel like a lump on the log. You and vd are both working for the betterment of the Army, and I'm just sort of...there.

... :D

At 3/27/09 08:53 PM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote:

I used to have that armor back when l was playing that game.. :D

And you stopped because...?

Uuuuhh...l don't really know...

I know, and generally I enjoy being lazy, but it's just, I feel like a lump on the log. You and vd are both working for the betterment of the Army, and I'm just sort of...there.

I enjoy being lazy too, and searching pics on google and then putting them together is not s chore, it's fun (even if l had to make one of them all over again because of a mistake)

... :D

:D

HeavyTank, I must admit that you've found a lot of stuff with a high Cool Factor, good work.

I'm sorry if I haven't responded earlier but I've just had a rather busy period were I've started planning for three rather big parties/social events within the next month or so. While fun it takes a lot of time.

As for the organisation of the Viking Army I cast my vote for the following organisation.

Jarl - DeathNoteetoNhtaeD
Stambo and armourer of the Viking Army - HeavyTank
Thul - vdviking

As you can see I'm sort of going by seniority.

At 3/31/09 03:26 AM, vdviking wrote: HeavyTank, I must admit that you've found a lot of stuff with a high Cool Factor, good work.

Thank you...l really wish you could see them with their real resolution and not the 150k size that NG allows...

I'm sorry if I haven't responded earlier but I've just had a rather busy period were I've started planning for three rather big parties/social events within the next month or so. While fun it takes a lot of time.

Three big parties in a month?Wow...

As for the organisation of the Viking Army I cast my vote for the following organisation.

Jarl - DeathNoteetoNhtaeD
Stambo and armourer of the Viking Army - HeavyTank
Thul - vdviking

As you can see I'm sort of going by seniority.

Yep, l think that is totally cool.

At 3/31/09 03:29 AM, HeavyTank wrote:

Jarl - DeathNoteetoNhtaeD
Stambo and armourer of the Viking Army - HeavyTank
Thul - vdviking

As you can see I'm sort of going by seniority.

Yep, l think that is totally cool.

So you two are in agreement on this? So, do we wait for others to vote, or do we just go with this? If so, then it is an honor, thank you.

A big honor. Not even a year on the BBS and already this...wow.

At 3/31/09 07:28 AM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote:

So you two are in agreement on this? So, do we wait for others to vote, or do we just go with this?

Well we could wait a few more days, but all the others have been really quiet in this thread of lately, so I'm not sure they'll make their vote known anyhow.

A big honor. Not even a year on the BBS and already this...wow.

It is an honour you've earned for being true to the Viking Army for a long time.

Besides tomorrow's a new month, what better day to start on something new than April first? .... oh ....!!!

At 3/31/09 08:45 AM, vdviking wrote: Well we could wait a few more days, but all the others have been really quiet in this thread of lately, so I'm not sure they'll make their vote known anyhow.

True. But I say that we give them a period of a week or so to voice their disagreements if they feel strongly enough about them.

At 3/31/09 08:45 AM, vdviking wrote:

At 3/31/09 07:28 AM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote:

So you two are in agreement on this? So, do we wait for others to vote, or do we just go with this?

Well we could wait a few more days, but all the others have been really quiet in this thread of lately, so I'm not sure they'll make their vote known anyhow.

Bah, what for?
I am sure they will agree with us..

A big honor. Not even a year on the BBS and already this...wow.

It is an honour you've earned for being true to the Viking Army for a long time.

I was going to say that >:(

Besides tomorrow's a new month, what better day to start on something new than April first? .... oh ....!!!

It is apri...oh, you're right!
Awesome!