New "Torture" Video Circulating

[Tancrisism]

Here it is. This will probably get more noticed as the week goes on.

What do you think of this? It is possible that this person is a terrorist, as it seems he is sending mixed messages, but on the other hand it seems like everyone is interpreting everything differently. The American says one thing, the translator says another, and then the subtitles say two different things translating both the translator and the captured person.

But even if he is a terrorist, is it worth committing a war crime to find out information? It seems like a bit of a double-standard given the way the Nuremberg trials took place, in which only Axis members were punished; no one from the Allies were, not even the people who planned the awful and pointless firebombing of Dresden or the countless infractions caused by the Allies by killing various POW's. And not to mention the outright slaughter by the Russians of the Poles.

So perhaps it's a lesson: Only those who win or are on the more powerful side are allowed their basic human rights in a time of war (or, as it is, quasi-war).

But I am very open to other thoughts on the matter.

[JoS]

Thats kind of how war works, only the losers are punished. To the victor go the spoils.

[TehChahlesh]

Slow down there!

First, make sure the video's real. Then you can condemn the US military.

[adrshepard]

If it is real, it's probably from one of those "rendition" countries. But I doubt it is legitimate. They are always heralded as the places who do the medieval-style torture, and here the worst thing the television network could scrounge up was someone having a plastic strip around his neck pulled slightly. No one's going to sign up for a fake video where they get tortured for real.

[pepocho]

At 9/21/08 11:15 AM, TehChahlesh wrote: Slow down there!

First, make sure the video's real. Then you can condemn the US military.

i highly doubt the US government will actually say the truth and say if its real or not...

[Ansel]

At 9/21/08 12:07 PM, pepocho wrote:

At 9/21/08 11:15 AM, TehChahlesh wrote: Slow down there!

First, make sure the video's real. Then you can condemn the US military.

i highly doubt the US government will actually say the truth and say if its real or not...

we've got a rebel, gents

look out, he's dangerous

[TehChahlesh]

At 9/21/08 12:49 PM, Ansel wrote: we've got a rebel, gents

look out, he's dangerous

Someday. we might be as cool as he is.

[SolInvictus]

question #1 regarding authenticity;
video can be used to record interrogations to allow for further review later, but if this is real, why was it necessary to zoom in on the interrogator fastening the zip ties?

[Nitroglys]

personally. i think its a fake. Too good, ha. They wouldn't let shit like this leak. The Abu graib scandal was to side track from what was really going on there. You didnt really believe that naked pyramids were the worst that was going on. This is just gold, too good.

[InsertKickassAlias]

At 9/21/08 10:39 AM, JoS wrote: Thats kind of how war works, only the losers are punished. To the victor go the spoils.

And history is always written by the victors.

[adrshepard]

Because, OBVIOUSLY, if you don't treat terrorists according to the Geneva Convention, then all Muslims will seethe with so much hatred (Islamic law is founded on compassion and respect towards enemies and wrongdoers) that they will abandon their jobs and families and become suicide bombers.

[adrshepard]

At 9/21/08 06:36 PM, InsertKickassAlias wrote:

And history is always written by the victors.

All the more reason for you to stop your whining and support the US in war. The terrorists and insurgents aren't the ones causing us trouble, you know. It's people like you who would want the US to be humbled for the sake of your precious "feelings."

[InsertKickassAlias]

At 9/21/08 07:14 PM, adrshepard wrote: ... stop your whining ...

Meanwhile, somewhere, at some point in time:

[ForkRobotik]

At 9/21/08 05:59 PM, Nitroglys wrote: personally. i think its a fake. Too good, ha. They wouldn't let shit like this leak. The Abu graib scandal was to side track from what was really going on there. You didnt really believe that naked pyramids were the worst that was going on. This is just gold, too good.

The reason that female soldier was imprisoned wasn't because she pretended to shoot off some guy's wang, it was because she stuck the end of a broom up his ass and videotaped it. Congress got to see the tape, and then they sealed it away while the media glossed over what actually happened, telling about the minor warcrimes committed.

[Nitroglys]

At 9/22/08 02:33 AM, ForkRobotik wrote:

The reason that female soldier was imprisoned wasn't because she pretended to shoot off some guy's wang, it was because she stuck the end of a broom up his ass and videotaped it. Congress got to see the tape, and then they sealed it away while the media glossed over what actually happened, telling about the minor warcrimes committed.

No no no. This is what im talking about...
" an Iraqi woman in her 70s had been harnessed and ridden like a donkey""Well, I think there is a direct line that run from Secretary Rumsfeld to Abu Ghraib"

[hrb5711]

There isn't anything that shows this video is real.

The thing that stuck out the most to me was

1. The guys gun is shoved in his pants like her is about to rob a 7-11
2. The door was unlocked and everyone seemed so rehearsed and relaxed in it.

It will give anti-war nuts another you-tube video to show everyone in the military is baby killers though.

Lame.

[ForkRobotik]

At 9/22/08 03:21 AM, hrb5711 wrote: There isn't anything that shows this video is real.

The thing that stuck out the most to me was

1. The guys gun is shoved in his pants like her is about to rob a 7-11
2. The door was unlocked and everyone seemed so rehearsed and relaxed in it.

It will give anti-war nuts another you-tube video to show everyone in the military is baby killers though.

Lame.

ABC news says the US government tried to block the releasing the of the video. To claim that it might be fake is quite disingenuous of you. Do your research please, and don't be so obvious about your pro-torture bias.

[JoS]

Maybe they tried to block it because it was a fake and designed to make the US look bad. I think its called propaganda. Or maybe ABC got their facts wrong, don't take the news corporations word as Gospel. IN fact it seems the only time people believe main stream media is when they put out anti-government stories.

[Proteas]

At 9/22/08 09:01 AM, JoS wrote: Maybe they tried to block it because it was a fake and designed to make the US look bad.

That looks to be the case to me. The production values are to good; the lighting is just right so see damn near everything, the visual is clear, and it's EASY to understand what's being said. Everything is to damn perfect for this to be the real thing.

[EmpireOfAtaraxia]

At 9/22/08 04:33 AM, ForkRobotik wrote:

ABC news says the US government tried to block the releasing the of the video. To claim that it might be fake is quite disingenuous of you. Do your research please, and don't be so obvious about your pro-torture bias.

Link pleeeeeeease.

US government still blacks Roswell crap. Anything, regardless of authenticity, that detracts from the government's desired public image is opposed. And the points stated by others are clear. The footage shows a complete disregard for standard security procedure. Not denying that interrogations take place, but this is obviously canned.

He, the flea, does indeed carry fleas upon him
He who shouts bias is probably the most biased one of all.

[hrb5711]

At 9/22/08 04:33 AM, ForkRobotik wrote: ABC news says the US government tried to block the releasing the of the video. To claim that it might be fake is quite disingenuous of you. Do your research please, and don't be so obvious about your pro-torture bias.

1. If you claim I am being bias for having no research you need to provide a link for yours.

2. I never claimed to do any research and merely gave my personal opinion. I said it looked fake, not that it is 100% fake.

And like someone else already said, you are probably the most bias one here for automatically thinking it is real.

Anyways, as long as their is no evidence to support this is real or not there is no point in talking about it. It will all be personal opinions with nothing to back it up.
If you want to talk about torture being right or wrong I'm sure there is already a thread about it.

[MortifiedPenguins]

On the question of authenticity:

All they got out of Abu Ghraib, were some badly shot polaroids by either individual soldiers or whoever was there. And after that mistake by the US military, the chances of a well organised and finely shot video tape interogation, which would have been shot by someone ordered to do so or something of that like, of escaping the militaries grasp and somehow ending up in media hands would be incredibly small.

[pepocho]

At 9/22/08 03:10 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: On the question of authenticity:

All they got out of Abu Ghraib, were some badly shot polaroids by either individual soldiers or whoever was there. And after that mistake by the US military, the chances of a well organised and finely shot video tape interogation, which would have been shot by someone ordered to do so or something of that like, of escaping the militaries grasp and somehow ending up in media hands would be incredibly small.

yes he has a point also i think its nearly impossible for a video like this to somehow end up on youtube and somehow stay there....i mean if it was real im pretty sure the government would have deleted the video the user who uploaded it

[HogWashSoup]

he is our enemy. I hope he dies.

[ThePretenders]

Let the U.S. do her own thing. Even if it's real, it is justified because a nation has to protect itself, even if it leads to torture of terrorist suspects.

[MultiCanimefan]

At 9/21/08 07:14 PM, adrshepard wrote:

At 9/21/08 06:36 PM, InsertKickassAlias wrote:

And history is always written by the victors.

All the more reason for you to stop your whining and support the US in war.

Then it's "half-assed" History. I don't support the war, I support the troops.

It's people like you who would want the US to be humbled for the sake of your precious "feelings."

I fail to see how what he said even implied that he wants the U.S. to be humbled. What he said is a fact: History is written by the victors.