Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 10/3/08 04:13 PM, Imperator wrote:

If you can recall the passage, I can confirm or deny that claim right here and now.

I dunno, here: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/perfect ion.html

apparently he's really great and perfect and everything he does is really great and perfect.

At 10/3/08 05:01 PM, poxpower wrote: I dunno, here: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/perfect ion.html

apparently he's really great and perfect and everything he does is really great and perfect.

Well first, if you're gonna make a claim, I think it's at least proper to have a general idea where you deduced that evidence.......

Making me hunt for your claim is a no-no.

Second:
1. Greek words teleios, teleiosis, teleioo, epiteleo

In all my encounters, means perfect in the sense of something being complete, rather than something being flawless.

It's where we get "teleology".

little more professionally, it seems the sense of the word as "without spot or blemish" appeared in the Iliad somewhere, as a description of victims.

When I get a chance I'll run through some of the occurrences and see what exactly is the sense of it all.

At 10/3/08 05:09 PM, Grammer wrote:

Why would he cure someone who's sick if YOU ask him to, but he wouldn't otherwise???

He wouldn't otherwise because you didn't ask him to >:O

But you said "Maybe my prayers were PART of his plan" So if they were part of his plan, why would you need to ask?

At 10/3/08 06:01 PM, hippl5 wrote:

At 10/3/08 05:09 PM, Grammer wrote:

Why would he cure someone who's sick if YOU ask him to, but he wouldn't otherwise???

He wouldn't otherwise because you didn't ask him to >:O

But you said "Maybe my prayers were PART of his plan" So if they were part of his plan, why would you need to ask?

In that case, you DIDN'T need to, but you did anyway. God planned for certain things to happen, like he wanted you pray AND get better. You would have gotten better anyway, but prayed for it nonetheless. If you hadn't prayed for it then you wouldn't have gotten better because God planned for you to not get better, AND not pray. In that case, it would be impossible for you to pray unless God planned for you to pray. But if you supposedly have free will, then God must have designed your will to function exactly as he wanted it to. In other words, if he planned for you to do the right thing, then he would have created you with the ability to choose, but you would always choose the right thing, because YOU want to.

Makes perfect sense, proves nothing. But that's why that question is irrelevant.

At 10/3/08 06:18 PM, Grammer wrote:

Maybe he saw my prayer coming? :o

So basically, he set the universe up so that one point you'd have to beg for him to do something he was planning to do regardless?

What an asshole.

At 10/3/08 06:38 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/3/08 06:18 PM, Grammer wrote:

Maybe he saw my prayer coming? :o

So basically, he set the universe up so that one point you'd have to beg for him to do something he was planning to do regardless?

What an asshole.

You guys don't understand what initial prayer is. What people do in church and at home now days isnt what was intended, what most islamic and jewish people do is more what authentic prayer is.
Its deep meditation, praising God and almost becoming one with his creations. Its kinda like buddism.

At 10/3/08 06:50 PM, Frattochino wrote:

You guys don't understand what initial prayer is.

Well it's not my religion and the people who practice it and the people who makes movies, books and tv shows with it always portray prayer in that manner.

At any rate, either you're wrong, or millions of people are wrong about prayer. Doesn't really make a difference to me.

praising God

Why does God want praise?

At 10/3/08 08:30 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/3/08 06:50 PM, Frattochino wrote:

You guys don't understand what initial prayer is.

Well it's not my religion and the people who practice it and the people who makes movies, books and tv shows with it always portray prayer in that manner.

At any rate, either you're wrong, or millions of people are wrong about prayer. Doesn't really make a difference to me.

praising God

Why does God want praise?

Duh, obviously the ultimate creator of the universe is just like us in apperance and emotions. It's so obvious.

At 10/3/08 08:55 PM, Grammer wrote:

If you were an almighty deity you would have a pretty big ego, too ;3

Isn't pride one of the 10 deadly sins?

At 10/3/08 09:38 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/3/08 08:55 PM, Grammer wrote:

If you were an almighty deity you would have a pretty big ego, too ;3

Isn't pride one of the 10 deadly sins?

God works in "mysterious ways", he can be a hypocrite.

lol you guyskeep talking about god like he's some fucking wizard or something.

It's very cute.

At 10/3/08 11:04 PM, Grammer wrote:

At 10/3/08 09:38 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/3/08 08:55 PM, Grammer wrote:

If you were an almighty deity you would have a pretty big ego, too ;3

Isn't pride one of the 10 deadly sins?

When you're that awesome you don't neeeeeed to worry about sin

Yes, it is. But there are only 7.

At 10/3/08 11:20 PM, BetaOrionis wrote:

At 10/3/08 11:04 PM, Grammer wrote:

At 10/3/08 09:38 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/3/08 08:55 PM, Grammer wrote:

If you were an almighty deity you would have a pretty big ego, too ;3

Isn't pride one of the 10 deadly sins?

When you're that awesome you don't neeeeeed to worry about sin

Yes, it is. But there are only 7.

Pride is the worst of the 7 deadly sins, pride leads to other sins, it's like a "gateway sin".

At 10/3/08 11:54 PM, bcdemon wrote:

At 10/3/08 11:20 PM, BetaOrionis wrote:

At 10/3/08 11:04 PM, Grammer wrote:

At 10/3/08 09:38 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/3/08 08:55 PM, Grammer wrote:

If you were an almighty deity you would have a pretty big ego, too ;3

Isn't pride one of the 10 deadly sins?

When you're that awesome you don't neeeeeed to worry about sin

Yes, it is. But there are only 7.

Pride is the worst of the 7 deadly sins, pride leads to other sins, it's like a "gateway sin".

I dunno man, I've been doing Pride almost every day for like, 4 years now, and I still ain't tried Gluttony, Sloth, or Greed. I doubt I ever will, that stuff can really fuck up your life! I know lot's of people who've been on Pride for years, most of them ain't gluttonous, so I know it's not just me.

I'm snorting pride as we speak.

i dont think we need religion im not religious its like meth os smoking its adictive it tricks u

Pride is logically a bad thing to indulge in, jus tlike anything is. Such obsessions skew perception.

Is being proud different frompride?

That's a nice question too though.

Which sin would you say is practically the most useful to not steer towards?

i have no cluew

At 10/4/08 02:15 AM, JackPhantasm wrote:

Which sin would you say is practically the most useful to not steer towards?

probably murder.

Raping wouldn't be too bad. Stealing would be much worse for a society.

At 10/3/08 11:55 AM, Imperator wrote:

At 10/3/08 05:38 AM, Diederick wrote: How can something which doesn't exist materially, deposit money to your bank account?

You kinda have to suspend your disbelief for a minute to see the argument there genius.
For example, I have to pretend you're not a complete dolt in order to take your posts seriously.

In any case, google "metaphor" please.

I am familiar with the word "metaphor", thank you. This is the argument: how can something which is immaterial do anything as big to reality, as giving you money?

Those are a lot of big words, but I can't make out any actual argument here... am I missing something? Oh yeah, reason. How could I forget?

Well those weren't really big words. Perhaps you just need to learn to read beyond a 3rd grade reading level?

See? I can be a smart ass pretentious prick too......

Still there is no argument, just your acquisitions - besides, I am not a prick. Far from it actually.

It is still impossible that God, even if it exists, could give you that. Because that would mean all laws of nature, all reality is corrupted continuously by God adjusting the lives of those who request it, thousands of times a day. The only you would believe this to work, is if you found a 5$ bill by accident.

I'm not claiming to know the system, but it might just be that simple. The rational behind it is that coincidence does not exist; Everything happens for a reason. Thus, it was not "accident" that you found $5.

So what was it then? How did it get there, and how could you possibly connect it as something which was placed there, by God, for you?

Get real, man.

From the guy who had an opening post even some of the most prominent atheists here disliked for it's idiocy? Really?

What exactly in my opening post was idiotic?

Folks, this thread is not about prayer, it is about why we would need religion. Please discuss the nonsense about whether God does or doesn't exist in the appropriate forum, the Theism vs. non-Theism thread.

If you want to defend religion, whether you're religious or not, come with arguments why we would be positively influenced by religion and why the negatives, named throughout this thread, wouldn't weigh up to the conclusion that religion is something we'd need to get rid of as an animal species.

So far I haven't heard one decent argument in favour of religion, which I think is pretty slim for a thread reaching past 10 pages. I might have missed it, through all the senseless talk (like comparisons to entertainment), but there still hasn't been anything reasonably substantial to defend what I attacked.

At 10/4/08 05:29 AM, Diederick wrote: Folks, this thread is not about prayer, it is about why we would need religion.

I think we've pretty much answered that by now.
Topics go where they go man, don't try to stop it -_-

So far I haven't heard one decent argument in favour of religion

There aren't any. If there were, atheists would know them.

At 10/4/08 05:40 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 10/4/08 05:29 AM, Diederick wrote: Folks, this thread is not about prayer, it is about why we would need religion.

I think we've pretty much answered that by now.
Topics go where they go man, don't try to stop it -_-

So far I haven't heard one decent argument in favour of religion

There aren't any. If there were, atheists would know them.

I'm starting to believe you're actually right... that's too bad. I would really have loved a good argument FOR religion.

I think freedom of choice is a fairly strong argument.

But then of course everyone would be like, "religion doesn't let you choose."

This is true.

But the same could be said about fast food.

I was under the impression that religion was hard-wired in to our instincts.

I'm not saying that it's primitive, but I don't see it as much of a stretch that religion will be nearly non-existent in the distant future. Of course that is assuming we all don't blow each other up.

At 10/4/08 11:46 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: I think freedom of choice is a fairly strong argument.

But then of course everyone would be like, "religion doesn't let you choose."

This is true.

Of course people should be free to choose, after all, whether we permit them or not, people will make their own choices, always. Besides the fact that religion is not really a choice; it's more like a growing addiction; we can make choices, but the consequences of those choices need to be taken in consideration as well. The negative results of religion do not weigh up to the positives, and interpersonal the effects are entirely negative; freedom of choice has little to do with it.

I'm free to choose to rape someone, or less extreme: to start gambling. The question is: do I want to, and would it be good for other people?

But the same could be said about fast food.

Fast food, I take it, is synonymous with bad food in general; it is a choice, indeed, but is it a good one? In the case of religion as well as asking yourself what's for dinner tonight; we have easy options (religion & fast food) with probably negative results in one way or another - and we have alternatives which are potentially less easy, but do less collateral damage.

True, ethics and morals differ in different societies. Religion makes people feel like they have a sense of purpose. That something is there to justify their existence, and everyone else's existence. To some people, it comforts them. It can also justify the resoning that it is better to believe in something than in nothing. I'm kind of scattered on my stance, but religion is that person's choice.

At 10/4/08 12:32 PM, Diederick wrote: we have easy options (religion & fast food) with probably negative results in one way or another - and we have alternatives which are potentially less easy, but do less collateral damage.

"Is religion more comforting than atheism?"

"No! But quicker, easier, more seductive."

At 10/4/08 03:36 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

At 10/4/08 12:32 PM, Diederick wrote: we have easy options (religion & fast food) with probably negative results in one way or another - and we have alternatives which are potentially less easy, but do less collateral damage.

"Is religion more comforting than atheism?"

"No! But quicker, easier, more seductive."

Which is my point, excluding that it is "less harmful". It is also quicker, as you forwarded, since it doesn't take a whole lot of studying, just blind faith - though that might take more intellectual people even more time than studying all that can be to establish Atheism.

Though I am in doubt about why you added the markers """

At 10/4/08 06:54 PM, Diederick wrote: Though I am in doubt about why you added the markers """

Because it was a quote from Star Wars (from a scene where Yoda is teaching Luke), I simply replaced "the dark side" with "religion".