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The E.U has America by the balls...

ok i've been noticing that people think that America doesnt have to pay because they have a massive army.
like i said in a previous post they need money to wage war / battles but from what i've seen on tv and in my mind red-necks would probably do it for free.
either that or like America forces people to do it.
i don't know but i doubt they could afford any of it.
plus its probably in a treaty that says all international debt must be paid or else omething will happen.

this guy says America is a corporation. (i think he's high)

plus if all the countries that america has debt in banded together and attacked and took the money the US owed then i dont think America would'nt stand a chance

At 9/16/08 10:58 PM, dooseyboy wrote: America's government is in little over 10 trillion dollars in debt.
China holds about 1.3 trillion of it literally having america by the balls.
along with switzerland and Australia.
when america has almost fully crashed every single country will buy all your land and you will all be destroyed.
personally i think its a grand investment oportunity.
i feel sorry for those people who are suffering.
im gonna be rich!
discuss.
what has americas government been investing in?

i know it i just want other people to say it.

Yes they have us by the balls, but for some reason you think we haven't been sold out already? Thats the problem. people think its going to happen in the near future when really we started selling our schools, prisons, roads and what not to other country's 20 years ago. As of late we privatized our military with a now foriogn company. So the news that America is fucked isn't new. Neither is the current market crash. Yes its going to be a big one, especially big since we've held it off for about 10 years. We should of had it in 98' when the asian market crashed. I pulled all my stocks. I know history and this is just another power grab by the few mega conglomerate cooperations and their owners.

In short .... Damn you Rockefeller!!!

So really it means nothing that we have a big military, witch is not really all that big about half a million people serve in it. Thats not much and our military strength has done nothing about the handing over of our national parks and schools and roads and what not why would, and what would the military do to keep china from buying some more businesses or revaluing its currancy. People are idiots in this country. They think we can throw the military at anything.

To fix this problem we got to get rid of the Bush economics that got our presidents dads seat handed to Bill suckmeoff Clinton.

Example of bush economics in a dialog:
Concerned American banks and public: The economy is fucked.. Fix It!
Bush: Print half a trillion dollars... maybe more!
Silenced True patriot: What? Hyper inflation got us here in the first place thats just going to slaughter us!
Corporate media: STFU!

Example of bush economics in terms anybody can understand:
The US dollar was worth twice as much when Bill suckmeoff left office.

End result will probably be us merging our currancy with the EUs or somebody else's a few years down the line. Probably a good move while we are still on world reserve status to do so.

As far as being rich, You should have gotten in on the pie when it was fresh, back in the late 80s early 90s

At 9/19/08 11:23 PM, ninjabooya1214 wrote: The E.U has America by the balls...

Um no.

China's not going to call in our debt because if we sink, they sink. This goes for pretty much any nation we owe a substantial amount of money to. The U.S. economy is too important to the rest of the world to have it going under.

Well, being in the military I'm going to enjoy blowing the shit out of you when that is attempted.

Oh please, because I would enjoy it so very much.

At 9/21/08 02:29 PM, Menelaus wrote: China's not going to call in our debt because if we sink, they sink.

Reality Check: China has over 5 times America's population and all the technology and resources that they need. They honestly could care less if America sinks.

Infact their leaders would hail an American collapse as a victory for their own tightly controlled state run market place. (where America is now heading)

The U.S. economy is too important to the rest of the world to have it going under.

No, most countries with half a brain have already re-aligned their trade with countries like China because that's where the real profit is. The "rest of the world" is NOT going to bail out years of American over-extravagance.

If the US debt is such a problem, then why is there no correlation between debt as a % of GDP and low GDP growth, or between debt as a % of GDP and a lower GDP, either now or X number of years down the line.

I just don't buy all the horror stories about how our debt is going to kill us. As a percentage of GDP it's not particularly large, and even if it was the numbers don't back up any sort of doomsday scenario.

At 9/21/08 09:12 PM, JudgeDredd wrote:

At 9/21/08 02:29 PM, Menelaus wrote: China's not going to call in our debt because if we sink, they sink.

Reality Check: China has over 5 times America's population and all the technology and resources that they need.

China's economy is based around exports. They have hordes of uneducated factory workers that can build things at a fraction of the cost that it would take elsewhere. That is the source of their economic strength, mass exports of low-level consumer items. The source of their strength is not technological innovation. They do not export high-end products, let alone invent those products like the US does.

They honestly could care less if America sinks.

AHAHAHA

Judge, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

The US consumer market and the US economy as a whole has been one of the biggest, if not the biggest sources of economic growth for China. China's economy would sink if the US economy sinks, and the global economy would sink as well.

If China "could care less" if the US economy sinks, why would they invest so much in the US? Why would they hold on to $500 billion in US treasury bonds if they don't care about the performance of the US economy?

Infact their leaders would hail an American collapse as a victory for their own tightly controlled

Um, China's economy is not tightly controlled anymore. They are politically communist, but their economy as it is now is based around imitating capitalism. The liberalization of their economy is one of the reasons they have such high growth.

The U.S. economy is too important to the rest of the world to have it going under.

No, most countries with half a brain have already re-aligned their trade with countries like China because that's where the real profit is.

Yeah, that must be why the downturn in the US economy has triggered the current recession in the EU, possible recessions in other western countries etc... That must be why the stock markets around the world took a major hit because of problems in the US economy. Yeah... if they've re-aligned themselves with China, it must be a coincidence that the performance of their economies directly coincide with market trends in the US.

The "rest of the world" is NOT going to bail out years of American over-extravagance.

1) The rest of the world isn't bailing out the US, nor does the US require to be bailed out. Buying US bonds is mutually beneficial, it's not some favor to the US. World trade is still done in dollars, the US dollar is still the world's premier currency and US treasury bonds are the most sought after in the world.
2) The world economy is directly dependent on the well being of the US and only a complete fool would say otherwise, or suggest that the US economy could collapse without causing a collapse in the global economy.

Your enormous ignorance really is quite amazing to me.

now who we really have to be worried about are the Japanese and their giant sadomasochistic robots of ultimate, over-the-top destruction.

At 9/21/08 09:47 PM, SolInvictus wrote: now who we really have to be worried about are the Japanese and their giant sadomasochistic robots of ultimate, over-the-top destruction.

I'm sure those robots will be too busy raping anime girls with their mechanical tentacles to bother with us.

We have more nukes, so no te world doesn't.

At 9/21/08 09:29 PM, Al6200 wrote: I just don't buy all the horror stories about how our debt is going to kill us. As a percentage of GDP it's not particularly large, and even if it was the numbers don't back up any sort of doomsday scenario.

Well, the people who either cry about or make snide remarks about US debt, Americans or non-Americans, probably don't know how exactly the debt works, or how it compares to other countries. They just hear the big "$10 TRILLION IN DEBT OMG!" number, without realizing that the US produces about $14 trillion in goods and services yearly. They also don't realize that over half of that debt is actually owed to Americans, not foreign governments.

So if they hear "$10 Trillion" without understanding the context, they are more likely to take an extreme stance. If they are American they'll claim the sky is falling down, if they are non-American it's going to be a major pillar of their US bashing. Ignorance is the culprit, I just find it funny that Brits and Canadians make up a large portion of the people that mention US debt, yet their debt is actually larger compared to ours, when compared to their GDP.

At 9/21/08 09:29 PM, Al6200 wrote: I just don't buy all the horror stories about how our debt is going to kill us. As a percentage of GDP it's not particularly large, and even if it was the numbers don't back up any sort of doomsday scenario.

The analogy being made is like a $50k mortgage on a $500k house. Sure, at only 10% it's not very much, but if your income falls suddenly (recession slashing a long-propped-up GDP figure) and you find you can't pay any of your growing debts, then the bankers takes your house.

Yes it's a dumb analogy, but the US has been borrowing, and is continuing to borrow on it's past performances. The "bankers" here are hard earnt savings of many countries folk, and at this point in time, most of those people are thinking to themselves that they want their money back in a hurry.

Should America fail to pay what it has guaranteed to pay (in the form of govt-backed bonds) then the scenario i mentioned to at the top of this page will likely ensue. It might even make the whole "War on Terror" look like a prelude to the main event.

At 9/21/08 10:05 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: I just find it funny that Brits and Canadians make up a large portion of the people that mention US debt, yet their debt is actually larger compared to ours, when compared to their GDP.

Strike that, the British public debt isn't relatively higher. Their external debt is though.

At 9/21/08 09:35 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The US consumer market and the US economy as a whole has been one of the biggest, if not the biggest sources of economic growth for China.

I don't disagree.

But now they are the "world factory" not "America's factory". They can stand on their own feet. They don't NEED the American consumer up to his/her eyeballs in bad debt.

At 9/21/08 09:35 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Um, China's economy is not tightly controlled anymore. They are politically communist..

^hahaha.. U FAIL right there!!

At 9/21/08 10:20 PM, JudgeDredd wrote:

At 9/21/08 09:35 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The US consumer market and the US economy as a whole has been one of the biggest, if not the biggest sources of economic growth for China.

I don't disagree.

But now they are the "world factory" not "America's factory".

And America is still the world's R&D department.

They can stand on their own feet.

In the event of a collapse of the US, their economy would collapse. The world economy would collapse.

Not only would it have a direct impact on China, but the effect on other markets for Chinese goods, like Europe, would also affect them. It wouldn't be immediate, but it would happen. Europe is in a recession right now because of what happened in the US. Germany's GDP is contracting pretty dramatically, and this is largely due to the fact that demand for their exports to the US has been dramatically decreased, because of the weakness of the dollar and lesser consumer spending in volume as well.

The affect on China and the world would be catastrophic in the event that the US economy collapsed. This is a simple fact, your arguments to the contrary do nothing but display your ignorance, and probably a bit of wishful thinking.

They don't NEED the American consumer

They NEED the American consumer. They NEED the American corporations that invest in China. They NEED access to the world markets that are dominated by US business and rest on the US dollar. They NEED access to technology that originates in the US.

At 9/21/08 10:28 PM, JudgeDredd wrote:

At 9/21/08 09:35 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Um, China's economy is not tightly controlled anymore. They are politically communist..

^hahaha.. U FAIL right there!!

No, you're the one that fails. As always.

China's economy has been liberalized and decentralized quiet a bit. This is a pretty well known fact. China is now a market economy. Get with the program.

America's balls are too large to grab.

At 9/21/08 11:14 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: And America is still the world's R&D department.

R&D doesn't make money per-se. If the information is on the internet, then the Chinese have access to everything you do. What have you gained? More regulation. More tension with China over intellectual property? Nothing but "kudos"?

You tell me.

At 9/21/08 10:05 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 9/21/08 09:29 PM, Al6200 wrote: I just don't buy all the horror stories about how our debt is going to kill us. As a percentage of GDP it's not particularly large, and even if it was the numbers don't back up any sort of doomsday scenario.

Well, the people who either cry about or make snide remarks about US debt, Americans or non-Americans, probably don't know how exactly the debt works, or how it compares to other countries.

Translation; "Today, this situation is complicated by institutions holding so many new and complex financial instruments that are nearly impossible to value."

Cellar, admit it. You talk up the strenght of the economy just like a broker. Even when your own leaders admit that "We are just days away from total collapse", you're still claiming the "complex numbers will save us". Still in denial. Getting out of step with reality..

At 9/22/08 12:02 AM, JudgeDredd wrote:

At 9/21/08 11:14 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: And America is still the world's R&D department.

R&D doesn't make money per-se.

It actually does, but you're missing the point and actually inadvertently fortifying my argument. The US has been a major source of technological innovation that has benefited the world and continues to. China's strengths and its role in the world economy is almost entirely confined to providing western countries like the US a source of cheap labor. China can manufacture low-level consumer items very cheaply, but China does not invent the technology behind it. China is not an exporter of technology and services, it is an exporter of goods. While most low-level consumer items in the US are physically made in China, just about all the designs and products are based on technology that originated in the US, and in most cases are under American brand names.

iPods for instance. Apple is an American company. iPods are all over the world, it's China that physically manufactures them, but is the iPod Chinese? Nope. Are the Chinese even funding the manufacturing process? Nope, it exists because of American investment, by American companies. What about all the computers that are made in China? Are they Chinese computers? Is the software that those computers run Chinese, just because China physically puts them together? Nope.

Does China even have a domestic computer software company that makes its own operating systems? Would it even have any chance of usurping the position US companies have? Because the world OS market is dominated by two American companies, Apple and Microsoft. The only competitor that even comes close is Linux, and it's European/Australian, but it's based on the Unix system which was also created in the US.

Without the US, without the technology that originates in the US, without the businesses that develop technology that trickles down to consumer items, China (and the world) will not continue with business as usual. If the US collapses, the world will collapse and China's economy will collapse.

If the information is on the internet, then the Chinese have access to everything you do.

First, not everything is available on the internet. Secondly, China does do a whole lot of reverse engineering and jacking of intellectual property, but the fact that they have to do this, and they are stealing it from he US, should show you something. They can't produce an equivalent product on their own.

What have you gained?

Um... the most powerful economy in the world maybe? The most powerful military in the world? Economic influence in the world that is unrivaled? Having almost 1/4th of the world's entire economic output located within our borders even though we have only 5% of the world's population? Yep, I'm pretty sure we've gained quite a bit due to our technological achievements.

At 9/22/08 12:26 AM, JudgeDredd wrote:

At 9/21/08 10:05 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 9/21/08 09:29 PM, Al6200 wrote: I just don't buy all the horror stories about how our debt is going to kill us. As a percentage of GDP it's not particularly large, and even if it was the numbers don't back up any sort of doomsday scenario.

Well, the people who either cry about or make snide remarks about US debt, Americans or non-Americans, probably don't know how exactly the debt works, or how it compares to other countries.

Translation; "Today, this situation is complicated by institutions holding so many new and complex financial instruments that are nearly impossible to value."

Nope.

Here, let me reiterate: Notions about US debt; either the alarmist screams in the US, or the snide remarks from hypocritical non-Americans whose economies are doing worse than ours and are dependent on ours, lose their weight when the facts are applied to the situation.

US debt is smaller in proportion to the enormity of our economy than several major industrialized nations who nobody is pointing their finger at for being on the verge of collapse.

Cellar, admit it.

You talk up the strenght of the economy just like a broker.

Um, no, I dismantle the false premises and lies about the weakness or fragility of the economy by identifying the facts, like an economist. I also identify the hypocrisy by non-Americans who are gleeful about problems in the US economy, while their economy is doing worse.

Even when your own leaders admit that "We are just days away from total collapse"

Who said that? And what were they referring to?

you're still claiming the "complex numbers will save us".

No, I'm claiming what is a pretty simple fact by identifying the numbers that people are oblivious to.

There is absolutely nothing about US debt that would make the US peculiarly prone to collapse or economic problems, especially in a relative comparison to other countries. It's large in absolute terms, which leads to the ignorance of the situation people have, but it is smaller in relative terms compared to other countries that nobody is claiming are near collapse.

Still in denial.

AHAHAHAHAHA

Denial about what pray tell? I'm pretty sure I've never denied that the US economy is having problems. My point this whole time is that other economies are doing worse, and are dependent on the US meaning problems in the Us economy will negatively affect the world... thus defeating the entire premise behind this thread.

How do you reconcile your position with the fact that the EU is in a recession right now, the UK, Canada, Australia... all either in or on the verge of a recession while the US itself is still maintaining significant economic growth? Is it too much to ask for you to stop evading these facts?

At 9/22/08 01:02 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

" ...the US itself is still maintaining significant economic growth?"

Explain to me how the US is enjoying 'significant economic growth'?

Don't give me this crap with the GDP. The GDP is such a misleading figure to base your arguments on. When a disaster of some kind occurs, such as an oil spill, the expenditures on the clean-up are added to the GDP. Obviously an oil tanker spill is NOT beneficial to the economy, yet the GDP does not reflect this. Yes, the GDP does give a good indicator for the STRENGTH of a nation's economy. However, it gives a very narrow and skewed view as to true economic performance.

Economic growth?
Rise in unemployment to 6.1% Link.
Here's a chart on estimated private employment for the next 20 years, its pretty bleak link.
Stagnation in the housing market link.
More housing woes link.
Then take a look at the stock market. Even the news of a 700 billion dollar government bailout program can't create confidence for Wall Street. link.

So, to say the US is feeling economic growth is a stretch. However, what the US economy feels, the global market feels, and we're seeing the effects of our economic downturn in other nations. But you've explained this point so well and so repeatedly, I feel reiterating it is only beating a dead horse. Those who don't grasp this concept are either ignorant to the point of unconsciousness, or canadian.

At 9/22/08 06:42 PM, Goptop wrote:

At 9/22/08 01:02 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

" ...the US itself is still maintaining significant economic growth?"

Explain to me how the US is enjoying 'significant economic growth'?

Simple.

The 2nd quarter of 2008 saw the US economy grow by 3.3%, and the current annualized growth rate is 3.2%. That's pretty good considering all the doom and gloom. Our economy is performing much better than other western economies (some of which are experiencing serious economic contraction), including that of the person I was talking to.

Don't give me this crap with the GDP.

Um, I will, because it's the best indicator you can use to gauge the strength of the economy as a whole.

The GDP is such a misleading figure to base your arguments on.

No it's not.

Pointing to specific figures like employment or housing without looking at their affect on the performance of the economy as a whole is misleading. That would be like refusing to admit that crime rates went down by mentioning the fact that underwear theft went up, lol.

Of course, employment and the condition of the housing market are both indicators and causes of economic performance, but focusing on them and ignoring the economy as a whole is misleading when suggesting they mean the economy isn't growing. Employment rates and housing conditions are major aspects of our economy but it's very possible for other sectors to see growth that will boost the economy overall. For instance our exports grew by 13.2% last quarter.

Economic growth?
Rise in unemployment to 6.1% Link.

That means unemployment went up, that doesn't mean the economy shrank. I'm not saying that the loss of jobs is a good thing or is negligible, but it doesn't mean that the US economy isn't growing. Therefore what I said was very much true, the US economy is growing, and your arguments to the contrary are falling short.

Here's a chart on estimated private employment for the next 20 years, its pretty bleak link.

Nice try

"Change in private employment due to S. 2191"

--------

That is a prediction of what MIGHT happen if S. 2191, an environment protection bill that sought to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, got passed.

It hasn't been passed, it hasn't even been voted on. The summary says that it has probably been "abandoned".

You suggested my argument is misleading? Yet you're linking to hypothetical forecasts of our economic performance years and years ahead of now IN THE EVENT that a now apparently defunct climate protection bill gets passed? Hah!

So, to say the US is feeling economic growth is a stretch.

It's a stretch to pretend that you've provided any evidence to suggest I was wrong.

However, what the US economy feels, the global market feels, and we're seeing the effects of our economic downturn in other nations. But you've explained this point so well and so repeatedly, I feel reiterating it is only beating a dead horse. Those who don't grasp this concept are either ignorant to the point of unconsciousness, or canadian.

Well at least we can agree on something.

At 9/16/08 10:58 PM, dooseyboy wrote: America's government is in little over 10 trillion dollars in debt.
China holds about 1.3 trillion of it literally having america by the balls.

We'll just go bankrupt and not pay. If anyone cares to argue, we have all the nukes.

At 9/21/08 11:32 PM, Dash-Underscore-Dash wrote: America's balls are too large to grab.

I think everyones holding everyone else's balls. If anyone squeezes the US's balls, then the US will scream out in pain, and involuntarily tense up, squeezing a bunch of other countries' balls, which will cause a chain reaction throughout the entire globe where everyones balls break. So what everyone should be doing right now is caressing the US's balls nice and gentle to avoid getting hurt, and maybe even infertile.

No one should ever squeeze Americas balls.

At 9/17/08 07:02 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 9/16/08 10:58 PM, dooseyboy wrote: when america has almost fully crashed every single country will buy all your land and you will all be destroyed.

The sad thing is that I don't think you're joking.

oh no im serious when i say that.
its pretty much true i mean what if everyone in another country owned every single house in america?
what if a country OWNS all the properties in a single town?
imagine what could happen

At 9/17/08 10:08 AM, Idiot-Finder wrote:

At 9/16/08 10:58 PM, dooseyboy wrote: .
i feel sorry for those people who are suffering.
im gonna be rich!
discuss.

Found one

oh now i get it your "idiot-finder"
you are quite silly

At 9/20/08 07:46 AM, 420BLZR wrote: heaps of good stuff about this :-)

i totally liked everything you said

At 9/25/08 04:34 AM, BetaOrionis wrote:

At 9/21/08 11:32 PM, Dash-Underscore-Dash wrote: America's balls are too large to grab.

I think everyones holding everyone else's balls. If anyone squeezes the US's balls, then the US will scream out in pain, and involuntarily tense up, squeezing a bunch of other countries' balls, which will cause a chain reaction throughout the entire globe where everyones balls break. So what everyone should be doing right now is caressing the US's balls nice and gentle to avoid getting hurt, and maybe even infertile.

No one should ever squeeze Americas balls.

lol

At 9/25/08 10:16 PM, dooseyboy wrote: oh now i get it your "idiot-finder"
you are quite silly

there really isn't anything silly about your diagnosis.

At 9/17/08 05:48 PM, TheMason wrote:

At 9/17/08 02:57 PM, ViolentAJ wrote: We're not on top militarily when it comes to technology. Russia has the edge in air power as well as military efficiency.

What? Absolutely not true. Russia may have quantitative lead...but nowhere near our quality which is a force multiplier.

They do not have the AWACS (Airborne Warning And Control Sys) that the US has that allows for US supremacy in the air and domination when it comes to tactical airpower in support of ground units. Furthermore, we have better stealth technology, missiles and radar.

Finally, Russia does not have the strategic airpower that the US has. Most of their long-range bombers are still propeller driven (they do have a B-1B spin-off)...much less a B-2 type capability.

So no...Russia does not have the airpower edge.

Their Navy ain't so great either. A lot of their ships are in a state of disrepair. Roughly half of their submarine fleet is operational (26 out of 50 vessels), for example.