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yeah thats a fun question when does life begin, Because it effects the view of when life ends.

Aborition is the right of a woman. No one can tell her what to do with her own body or whatever is in it until that thing comes out. If you dont feel capable of bringing anonther human being into this world then you shouldn't. We are having a population, poverty, and hunger crisis as is. And if it is murder that is that woman and the father's own problem. they will have to appear before god with their sins layed out before them. Who are we to try and prevent them from damnation.

At 9/11/08 11:07 PM, Nitroglys wrote: Aborition is the right of a woman. No one can tell her what to do with her own body or whatever is in it until that thing comes out. If you dont feel capable of bringing anonther human being into this world then you shouldn't. We are having a population, poverty, and hunger crisis as is. And if it is murder that is that woman and the father's own problem. they will have to appear before god with their sins layed out before them. Who are we to try and prevent them from damnation.

while i disagree that the fetus is entirely a part of the women's body (it's a unique life BUT depedent on the mother) your last sentence has a very interesting question...Who ARE we to try and prevent them from damnation?

At 9/17/08 11:23 PM, Rockthebestmusic wrote: Who ARE we to try and prevent them from damnation?

Humans? Isn't the whole preachy-thing about saving other people from damnation?

At 9/18/08 05:35 PM, Sajberhippien wrote:

At 9/17/08 11:23 PM, Rockthebestmusic wrote: Who ARE we to try and prevent them from damnation?

Humans? Isn't the whole preachy-thing about saving other people from damnation?

You are right, because they worded it wrong.

Who are we to FORCE them into avoid damnation?

Though, who are we to take a life of another for our own personal benefits?

Ohh lets not get all "This hunk of flesh in me is a magical...." Just not. There are too many people on the planet and just adding more is helping destroy the future for mankind.

Many so called "worthless rightless" animals have infinitely more intelligence than a hunk of baby flesh. USA is a most paradoxical land, Most Americans are women because so many men are sent to slaugther through wars, the death penalty and poor education that leads to an unhealthy life, i.e, being grossly fat. Its a joke to concentrate on such a tiny matter as trying to force women to have more kids when there are stupid wars, the people who are alive can be homeless and on the streets and nobody gives a damn but if some poor woman gets pregnant then she must give birth to the baby right? even if the mother can't provide for it right?

At 9/18/08 06:39 PM, WARTORIOUS wrote: Ohh lets not get all "This hunk of flesh in me is a magical...." Just not. There are too many people on the planet and just adding more is helping destroy the future for mankind.

Many so called "worthless rightless" animals have infinitely more intelligence than a hunk of baby flesh. USA is a most paradoxical land, Most Americans are women because so many men are sent to slaugther through wars, the death penalty and poor education that leads to an unhealthy life, i.e, being grossly fat. Its a joke to concentrate on such a tiny matter as trying to force women to have more kids when there are stupid wars, the people who are alive can be homeless and on the streets and nobody gives a damn but if some poor woman gets pregnant then she must give birth to the baby right? even if the mother can't provide for it right?

First off if there is such a dramatic population problem why don't we all just stop having children (sarcasm)......Also as far as intelligent animals vs. babies goes what about people with mental diseases, the elderly etc. that are considered useless burdens to society? should we kill them all too? Most Americans are women, well take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou ntries_by_sex_ratio for the United states alone the total male/female ratio is 0.97. That really isn't such a dramatic difference. Poor education leaving to an unhealty life? Well farmers of the past were pretty damn stupid and a lot of them weren't grotesquely fat. It has nothing to do with forcing women to have children its more of a Basic human ethics question; should a fetus/embryo etc. have the same right to life as a newborn baby.

I am going to be completely honest, Antiabortion.

I don't care if the woman got raped, but I would rather see the mother give birth to the child and be sent to the adoption center and have the woman beat the crap out of the rapist, than have the women have the abortion. It is not right for the child.

Other wise, if it will kill both the mother and the child, then that would be absolutely necessary.

At 9/4/08 03:42 AM, SynicalSatire wrote: A major dispute between the two presidential candidates is abortion. I personaly believe that abortion is murder, and that it should not be inlawed except for a few obvious resons.
1. rape or incest

2.danger to mother or childs life.

Most abortions are done just because the woman decided to have sex with a guy and now she's pregnant, everyone has a right to life even the recently fertilized fetus will develope into a functioning human

The problem is that quite a lot of sex is for

pleasure

and considering that a lot of christians are against con-doms(both candidates). The only way to have sex for sexual pleasure is to use a condom or risk pregnancy. If the woman wanted the pleasure and not childbearing, and is against condoms for whatever reason, the is it not her right to choose?

p.s. it's pretty irrelevant to this but read Tramps stories, here it is and you will get the message. p.s. only read part 4 if you dont want an erection :D.

Consider this: if abortions become illegal, that won't stop anyone from getting them. Instead, they will have to go get them from shady people who use unsafe, possibly life-threatening measures.

Compare that to today's legal, safe abortions.

If it is ilegal, the majority of pregnant woman, who were considering abortion, would be far less likely to.

At 9/20/08 12:03 PM, SynicalSatire wrote: If it is ilegal, the majority of pregnant woman, who were considering abortion, would be far less likely to.

But those who still decide to go through with it will be risking their lives getting the abortion done by some unqualified and shady "doctor".

Did illegalizing pot make people stop smoking it? Hell no. I remember some people at my high school getting fragged just after prom night in a tussle over pot. If pot wasn't illegal, chances are they'd live to graduate.

At 9/20/08 12:03 PM, SynicalSatire wrote: If it is ilegal, the majority of pregnant woman, who were considering abortion, would be far less likely to.

Thats acually proven false. Women who get abortions are desprate to not have a baby and to ont have a baby that ruins their lives they will probably end up getting illegal possibly lethal abortions.

At 9/18/08 09:31 PM, T-N-T wrote:
I don't care if the woman got raped, but I would rather see the mother give birth to the child and be sent to the adoption center and have the woman beat the crap out of the rapist, than have the women have the abortion. It is not right for the child.

And so your opinion is completely invalided with that barbaric pile of shit.

At 9/20/08 09:29 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

And so your opinion is completely invalided with that barbaric pile of shit.

If you were the child in that mother's body, wouldn't you want to live?

At 9/20/08 10:12 PM, T-N-T wrote:

At 9/20/08 09:29 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

And so your opinion is completely invalided with that barbaric pile of shit.

If you were the child in that mother's body, wouldn't you want to live?

Complex thought processes such as self-preservation are not present in fetal development, thus, your arguement is moot.

At 9/20/08 10:44 PM, KeithHybrid wrote:

Complex thought processes such as self-preservation are not present in fetal development, thus, your arguement is moot.

You should be happy that you are living in the first place.

I'm done talking here.

At 9/20/08 10:45 PM, T-N-T wrote: You should be happy that you are living in the first place.

I'm done talking here.

I am, thank you very much.

Good! GTFO!

I want to add a few last things before I actually leave the thread.

Having an abortion is pretty much saying that "I'm too damn lazy to convince a guy to use a condom and/or take birth control pills." It is indeed a horrible thing though that if a woman got raped and I can totally understand why she would want it. But there is other ways to deal with it (take back what I said earlier about beating the crap out of the person) I mean it isn't the fetus fault that it even existed in the first place because of the rape (and again rape is a HORRIBLE thing), but I truly, honestly, believe that the fetus should be able to be born and hopefully have a good life (with the natural mother or not).

Also, if abortion became illegal but with rare occasions, then I would predict that both the men and women would be more careful about sex (if not planning to have a baby). They would be more likely to use condoms and/or birth control pills than ever before. I cannot imagine having a woman risk her own life to have an illegal abortion that could risk her life (unless for some reason managed to convince the actual doctor to do it anyways). And also using condoms and/or birth control pills over an abortion can save them $300 or more! It's just common sense.

Ok. Now that I hope I got my point across, I will now leave.

Why not just take it one step further? Some of you say life begins at conception. But... the POTENTIAL for life lies lurking in the shadows as long as sex is a possibility. Why not just make NOT having sex illegal so that we can have as many births as possible!

Think about it, when you refrain from sex, you're denying an unborn child its life! Think about all the potential humans out there brutally stripped away from their chance to exist, live, breathe, eat, think!

FUCK FOR CHRISTIANITY!

Just a comment on the post since i'm not bothered reading all 5 pages of replies - i just think that abortions can never be absolutely defined 'right' or 'wrong'. It always needs to be carefully considered for any situation and that's between the mother, family, friends and doctors.

I guess for that same reason is why i oppose making it 'illegal'...

At 9/21/08 01:50 AM, Baalphegor wrote: Why not just take it one step further? Some of you say life begins at conception. But... the POTENTIAL for life lies lurking in the shadows as long as sex is a possibility. Why not just make NOT having sex illegal so that we can have as many births as possible!

Think about it, when you refrain from sex, you're denying an unborn child its life! Think about all the potential humans out there brutally stripped away from their chance to exist, live, breathe, eat, think!

FUCK FOR CHRISTIANITY!

The problem is that, the sperm and the egg each only cary part of the genetic code of the parent, they each have the potential to be human only once theyr'e together, If they're apart the only thing they mean is the ability to be half a human, not that they are. However when the sperm and egg come together the full genetic code for a human is there, different from both parents, so it is no longer the choice of the adults to give that cell life or death, but up to the gestation period to create a human being and God willing to let it live.

At 9/21/08 03:33 PM, SynicalSatire wrote:

At 9/21/08 01:50 AM, Baalphegor wrote:
Stuff

More stuff

Check your nickname and read it again :P

What you just described was the process of which a spermcell and an egg merge to form a zygote. I was talking about the potential of human life. The potential is there as long as two people of opposite sex are in the vicinity of eachother. And thus we reach the conclusion: If we ban abortion on the basis that we rob a future human of its life, wouldn't it make just as much sense to ban not having sex?

At 9/21/08 03:54 PM, Baalphegor wrote: Stuff

Nice thinking, but you're not thinking big enough. I say treat every murder as a mass murder. After all, when you kill someone, you denie their sperm and/or eggs the right to be developed and born.

At 9/18/08 09:31 PM, T-N-T wrote: I am going to be completely honest, Antiabortion.

I don't care if the woman got raped, but I would rather see the mother give birth to the child and be sent to the adoption center and have the woman beat the crap out of the rapist, than have the women have the abortion. It is not right for the child.

Other wise, if it will kill both the mother and the child, then that would be absolutely necessary.

WOW. someone needs to have a vagina. I hope you get raped. Just to experience the act. No love is there. what kind of child should be created in such a way?

At 9/21/08 07:05 PM, Nitroglys wrote: WOW. someone needs to have a vagina. I hope you get raped. Just to experience the act. No love is there. what kind of child should be created in such a way?

a normal one? last time i checked, there is no "become an insecure rapist" gene, and adoptive parents don't know the origins of the child.

At 9/21/08 07:50 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

a normal one? last time i checked, there is no "become an insecure rapist" gene, and adoptive parents don't know the origins of the child.

Thank you for backing me up.

There are over 6 billion people on the planet.

We can kill a few unborn babies.

Besides, babies smell.

Well, there are always two sides to a story. which is more important: Choice of life? I would have to stick with life. Although I believe that life is more important than the other option, I still think that under certain circumstances it would be acceptable.

Oh yeah, and by the way... Do this little... test =)

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had eight kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis; would you recommend that she have an abortion?

If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven! Meanie.

What more can you say ;)