Minnesota raids

[killa-teddy]

In these past few days before the Republican National Convention, there have been quite a few unlawful raids on homes of protesters. The thing about these raids are that they were against political activist and not criminals. No illegal activities took place at the residencies yet the warrants claimed that they were conspiring to riot. Listing that they had empty bottles along with paint thinner and other things that could be used to create incendiary devices. But there was no evidence what so ever to do so.
links here,
here
and here

[Nitroglys]

that is just too much. I mean i wonder if anything like that was done for the democratic convention. That has to be some bad PR for the republicans.

[Blackhawkdown]

I see no evidence of these raids being illegal. If the judge issued a warrant it means the police are allowed to enter into the house that the warrant applies to. Judges also only issue warrants when the police have sufficient evidence, not just for fishing expeditions. So I really fail to see the illegality of the police's actions.

[TheMason]

At 8/31/08 10:05 PM, Nitroglys wrote: that is just too much. I mean i wonder if anything like that was done for the democratic convention. That has to be some bad PR for the republicans.

KT isn't telling the whole story. It happen in Denver. In fact there are reports that police pepper-sprayed demonstrators.

Furthermore, radicals on both sides have been planning on disrupting both conventions. And police have infiltrated groups in both cities. So no, it's not bad publicity for either side.

[morefngdbs]

It so nice to read about how much 'freedom' there is in America.
Now you don't even have to do anything illegal, someone just has to claim you might do something illegal no proof just heresay & warrants & arrests are dropped on you like a brick shithouse.
So you have all these great so called rights in America to protest & frrespeach...I am only guessing but ...Your just not allowed to do any of that where anyone can see or hear you. LOL nice.

Americans real rights...you have the right to shut up & you have the right to do whatever we tell you to do.- as per Homeland Security.

[LazyDrunk]

At 9/1/08 11:07 AM, morefngdbs wrote: It so nice to read about how much 'freedom' there is in America.

Yeah, like freedom to drive around without having spikes thrown beneath your tires by angry "protesters". The people they raided in Anoka and Hennepin counties were sitting around drinking lattes and texting eachother over how excited their giddy behavior was making them. After cops raided the house, they found TONS of illegal shit intended (beyond a shadow of a doubt) to forcefully disrupt the civil flow of traffic and ideas.

The people they actually arrested, the ringleaders, are the only ones being charged as far as I've heard, with these other idiots getting off easy.

Freedom wasn't under attack, it was being protected.

Now you don't even have to do anything illegal, someone just has to claim you might do something illegal no proof just heresay & warrants & arrests are dropped on you like a brick shithouse.

They had proof. Need a hyperlink?

Americans real rights...you have the right to shut up & you have the right to do whatever we tell you to do.- as per Homeland Security.

That statement doesn't fit in this thread.

Lemme help you kiddies out: "At least five suspected leaders of the RNC Welcoming Committee, a self-described anarchist group, were taken to the Hennepin County jail, and another was being sought, said Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher."

More: "On Saturday afternoon, he displayed a number of the confiscated items: a gun, throwing knives, a bow and arrows, flammable liquids, paint, slingshots, rocks and buckets of urine."

"Fletcher however, stressed that he and other agencies had informants planted inside this and other groups for "a long period of time."

He described the raids as a strike against the RNC Welcoming Committee, which has vowed to block delegate buses at the convention, among other disruptive actions."

And while we're at it, let's post some new links Fletcher's statements

alternate sources

My opinion is that if you're intending on fucking up people's tires while in possession of serious weaponry, you deserve to get raided.

[LazyDrunk]

The sheriff's office said it confiscated weapons on Saturday including a machete, hatchet and several throwing knives, empty glass bottles, rags and flammable liquids, homemade devices used to disable buses, metal pipes, axes, bolt cutters, sledge hammers, empty plastic buckets made into shields, an Army helmet, and large amounts of urine.

[JoS]

LOL, large amounts of urine.

[Nitroglys]

At 9/1/08 12:08 AM, TheMason wrote:

KT isn't telling the whole story. It happen in Denver. In fact there are reports that police pepper-sprayed demonstrators.

Furthermore, radicals on both sides have been planning on disrupting both conventions. And police have infiltrated groups in both cities. So no, it's not bad publicity for either side.

ya. guess i didnt think about it. Fear is a good way to control people. it shouldnt put it past either side to overextend their authority. But i dont think either politican, or anyone directly close to them, had anything to do wiht the raids. just a classic response from the local gov't. *deep breath and sigh* freedom.

[wutwutinthebutt]

RIOT! PILLAGE! RAPE! OBAMA AND MCCAIN! RONALD MCDONALD IS MY PIMP!

[killa-teddy]

It is quite possible that there was some intent of disrupting the public peace ( you know with the urine and stuff). But there are multiple groups being targeted. Along with the press.
Even if these events all were conceived with ill will. The amount of police force used is excessive.

[Blackhawkdown]

At 9/4/08 09:41 PM, killa-teddy wrote: It is quite possible that there was some intent of disrupting the public peace ( you know with the urine and stuff). But there are multiple groups being targeted. Along with the press.
Even if these events all were conceived with ill will. The amount of police force used is excessive.

Really got any proof to back that up there? Because all I've seen are standard police tactics. It's called overwhelming force, fact is cops tend to be outnumbered by protesters and it only takes a few people to turn a large peaceful crowd into a destructive one. That's when cops employ a tactic called "overwhelming force" they come down as fast and hard as they can, this helps to put an immediate end to what's happening and discourages others from following suit.

[Nitroglys]

At 9/5/08 12:35 AM, Blackhawkdown wrote:

At 9/4/08 09:41 PM, killa-teddy wrote: It is quite possible that there was some intent of disrupting the public peace ( you know with the urine and stuff). But there are multiple groups being targeted. Along with the press.
Even if these events all were conceived with ill will. The amount of police force used is excessive.

Really got any proof to back that up there? Because all I've seen are standard police tactics. It's called overwhelming force, fact is cops tend to be outnumbered by protesters and it only takes a few people to turn a large peaceful crowd into a destructive one. That's when cops employ a tactic called "overwhelming force" they come down as fast and hard as they can, this helps to put an immediate end to what's happening and discourages others from following suit.

I dont think he meant they were using excessive force in that matter. He meant they were exceeding their authority by randomly targeting anyone with a anti-republican voice. You know people that like to excersise their first ammendment rights. These cops were exceeding their authority by busting down doors of peaceful demonstraters just beacuse they caught wind of a few "bad apples." If you read his link you would understand his grounds. The "sufficent evidence" is what is in question here. These people were completely innocent. There were meth heads with guns that got caught at the democratic convention that got off lighter than some of these pen pushers. It is a shame to see civil liberties trampled so much. Over what? a couple of possible protests.

[AreYouSure]

Don't chatter about ruining the general public's day and the cops won't bust your door down and take your buckets of piss from HQ or your piles of rocks from the sides of major highway bridges.

But yeah, peaceful protesters should gangrape the "bad apples" who bring legitimate pain unto the protest as a whole.

There are people here, mostly out-of-towners, planning and instigating actual violence against random Minnesotans.... and the delegations, too.

Piling up football-sized rocks besides highway overpasses? I hope some protester gets fucking shot.

[SynicalSatire]

This is just the revolution of france, claim someone conspires to bring back the king and next thing ya know there being taken away.

[Nitroglys]

At 9/5/08 02:17 AM, AreYouSure wrote: Don't chatter about ruining the general public's day and the cops won't bust your door down and take your buckets of piss from HQ or your piles of rocks from the sides of major highway bridges.

But yeah, peaceful protesters should gangrape the "bad apples" who bring legitimate pain unto the protest as a whole.

There are people here, mostly out-of-towners, planning and instigating actual violence against random Minnesotans.... and the delegations, too.

Piling up football-sized rocks besides highway overpasses? I hope some protester gets fucking shot.

Who ever said there was gonna be riots. all the raids were pre empts to supposedly stop them. But all they got were mostly journalists and protest groups. of which hardly any were found to be dangerous. Just admit that civil liberties were pissed all over.

[AreYouSure]

At 9/5/08 02:41 AM, Nitroglys wrote:

At 9/5/08 02:17 AM, AreYouSure wrote: Don't chatter about ruining the general public's day and the cops won't bust your door down and take your buckets of piss from HQ or your piles of rocks from the sides of major highway bridges.

But yeah, peaceful protesters should gangrape the "bad apples" who bring legitimate pain unto the protest as a whole.

There are people here, mostly out-of-towners, planning and instigating actual violence against random Minnesotans.... and the delegations, too.

Piling up football-sized rocks besides highway overpasses? I hope some protester gets fucking shot.

Who ever said there was gonna be riots.

You JUST did.

all the raids were pre empts to supposedly stop them.

The pre-empts were to prevent violence as indicated by the police moles who infiltrated the anarchist organization.

But all they got were mostly journalists and protest groups.

Which they let go in favor of the organizers.

of which hardly any were found to be dangerous. Just admit that civil liberties were pissed all over.

What civil liberties? The right not to be present during the takedown of ringleaders in a self-declared violent build up to the ZGOP convention?

Admit you made a big mistake challenging the even-handed actions of law enforcement.

I don't understand where you see civil liberties being violated. Just because I've got 20 idiots drinking lattes in the front room doesn't mean the cops can't act on information I've got and intend to use dangerous and terroristic devices in the back.

Honestly you people have no regard for law and order that extends beyond writing speeding tickets. You dolts don't understand that what the cops did last week saved tons of money, prevented nasty occurances and allowed many MORE protesters to march peacefully by taking the instigators out of the equation for the duration of the convention.

If you don't want to act like a human fucking being in a public forum, expect to get your shit tossed.

[Nitroglys]

At 9/5/08 11:56 AM, AreYouSure wrote:

Who ever said there was gonna be riots.

You JUST did.

I want a link from you that says there were people planning to insight a riot.

The pre-empts were to prevent violence as indicated by the police moles who infiltrated the anarchist organization.

What anacrchist organizations? Link?

Which they let go in favor of the organizers.

after they ransacked their homes and cars. Why? beacuse they have a political oppion.

What civil liberties? The right not to be present during the takedown of ringleaders in a self-declared violent build up to the ZGOP convention?

The right to free speach dumbass. Most of these people were a target beacuse they spoke their mind.

Admit you made a big mistake challenging the even-handed actions of law enforcement.

Really?

I don't understand where you see civil liberties being violated. Just because I've got 20 idiots drinking lattes in the front room doesn't mean the cops can't act on information I've got and intend to use dangerous and terroristic devices in the back.

What information? link please?

Honestly you people have no regard for law and order that extends beyond writing speeding tickets. You dolts don't understand that what the cops did last week saved tons of money, prevented nasty occurances and allowed many MORE protesters to march peacefully by taking the instigators out of the equation for the duration of the convention.

How so? the goverment spent a hell of alot of money to fund the raids, which most came up with nothing. all they got were piss buckets and common household items. Find me a link that shows there was a success in the raids. Please. before you make too much of a fool of yourself.

If you don't want to act like a human fucking being in a public forum, expect to get your shit tossed.

You are really weird man. one i am a human being, last time i checked, and two my shit isnt gettin tossed. just countered. and poorly at that. you cant just disagree and say im wrong and think i'll just believe you. ha ha. that is rich.

o ya. one more thing. FUCK THE POLICE. HA HA HA HA HA HA.

[Punk44244]

All I have to say is that all the things that went down near where I live (MN) fucked up many things. Transportation, the Minnesota Twins, and my best friends eyes (guily by association. aka he was in the area).

[AreYouSure]

At 9/5/08 03:13 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

At 9/5/08 11:56 AM, AreYouSure wrote:

Who ever said there was gonna be riots.

You JUST did.

I want a link from you that says there were people planning to insight a riot.

You want a link to something only you've mentioned? Do you know what a self-described anarchist is?

The pre-empts were to prevent violence as indicated by the police moles who infiltrated the anarchist organization.

What anacrchist organizations? Link?

RNC Welcoming Committee. Google it.

Do some research.

Have an opinion once you've got the actual info.

Click the fucking links on page one.

Which they let go in favor of the organizers.

after they ransacked their homes and cars. Why? beacuse they have a political oppion.

It's not a political opinion to pop people's tires, make molotovs, and drench people with piss.

It's not a political opinion to drop rocks off an overpass onto traffic.

What civil liberties? The right not to be present during the takedown of ringleaders in a self-declared violent build up to the ZGOP convention?

The right to free speach dumbass. Most of these people were a target beacuse they spoke their mind.

You're thinking freedom of assembly, or at least you should be. Most of these people weren't targets at all, as evidenced by the arrests of only the RNCWC ringleaders.

If you're going to start making claims that individual rights were violated, you really need to consider the aspect of public safety.

Admit you made a big mistake challenging the even-handed actions of law enforcement.

Really?

Yeah, really. What are cops for if not to infiltrate terroristic organizations, gather evidence, and prevent the prescribed violence planned against the general public? If you can't answer this, I really don't think you should have any opinions concerning police over-reactions.

I don't understand where you see civil liberties being violated. Just because I've got 20 idiots drinking lattes in the front room doesn't mean the cops can't act on information I've got and intend to use dangerous and terroristic devices in the back.

What information? link please?

LazyDrunk and the topic starter both provided links that you've either dismissed as false or feigned ignorance in lieu of doing actual research.

I live in Minnesota, we get the news direct, and the people who got their tossed deserved it for the greater public good. Just one rock through a windshield or a molotov into a business or an angry mob rolling a disabled vehicle and you've got riotous behavior.

Of course not EVERY protester was like "CMON GUIZ LETTUCE ANARCH1ZE THE RNC!!", but I shouldn't have to illuminate such A FUCKING OBVIOUS OBSERVATION.

A THREE YEAR OLD WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERY PERSON INTENDED TO BE A HAZARD

Honestly you people have no regard for law and order that extends beyond writing speeding tickets. You dolts don't understand that what the cops did last week saved tons of money, prevented nasty occurances and allowed many MORE protesters to march peacefully by taking the instigators out of the equation for the duration of the convention.

How so? the goverment spent a hell of alot of money to fund the raids, which most came up with nothing.

Bullshit. Read the links n00b.

all they got were piss buckets and common household items. Find me a link that shows there was a success in the raids. Please. before you make too much of a fool of yourself.

Read the links provided, newbie.

If you don't want to act like a human fucking being in a public forum, expect to get your shit tossed.

You are really weird man. one i am a human being, last time i checked, and two my shit isnt gettin tossed. just countered.

Outside the RNC is a public forum, not Newgrounds you smallfry. I wouldn't care if police busted your skull for loitering outside a 7/11. I really wouldn't.

o ya. one more thing. FUCK THE POLICE. HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand you're spent.

[Nitroglys]

At 9/6/08 10:16 AM, AreYouSure wrote:

For one. you are way to emotionaly involved in this to make balanced decisions. Yes i admit that there was maybe a few people who had some type of foul intentions. As there is in every society. But the extent of people involved is waht is shocking. And all the weapons they found were common household items. hatchets, knives, lighter fluid, bottles. next to the piss, i have everyone of those things in my garage. does that make me a terrorist? My mom is a community level activist also involved in the "food not bombs" campaign. does that make her a terrorist? The cops raided a Minnesota chapter of "food not bombs" now that sounds like a terrorist group.(thats in one of the links you pointed out) they also searched a green peace bus. Pulled it over off of the highway. Stuff like that. Who are these cops to just violate so many civil liberites on a possible lead. If all they found were some garden utensils that is not a victory.

and why would i ever look up something for what im arguing against. Now all of the links before me were in some way against the raids. Read them. so i demand you give me links with your side of the story. Or this arguement will go no where.

[Snayke]

Speaking of protesting and the such, there's several groups that manage to always be at major gatherings around the world to protest and riot. I mean seriously, how the hell do they pay for all these tickets? Is there some massive underground movement no one is telling us about? The guys I am talking about are the ones who wear black or some coloured bandana over their lower faces. :/ A little odd that they are always there.

[AreYouSure]

At 9/6/08 04:18 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

At 9/6/08 10:16 AM, AreYouSure wrote:

For one. you are way to emotionaly involved in this to make balanced decisions. Yes i admit that there was maybe a few people who had some type of foul intentions. As there is in every society. But the extent of people involved is waht is shocking. And all the weapons they found were common household items. hatchets, knives, lighter fluid, bottles. next to the piss, i have everyone of those things in my garage.

Two Texas men are being charged for storing Molotov cocktails (gas + glass bottle +rag) at a friends residence to toss during the protest.

It's not the peaceful protesters who are being jailed, it's the violent and instigating "protesters" who believe their own freedom of speech involves violating others' rights.

does that make me a terrorist?\

You're too emotionally involved. Settle down.

My mom is a community level activist also involved in the "food not bombs" campaign. does that make her a terrorist?

Has she been exhibiting the behaviors I've described? Are you so surprised that I've stated people who intent to instigate violence deserve stern and prompt law enforcement action?

What don't you understand?

The cops raided a Minnesota chapter of "food not bombs" now that sounds like a terrorist group.(thats in one of the links you pointed out) they also searched a green peace bus. Pulled it over off of the highway. Stuff like that. Who are these cops to just violate so many civil liberites on a possible lead. If all they found were some garden utensils that is not a victory.

They pulled over the bus because it violated code. You don't know FUCKING ANYTHING about what's going on here, RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO MY FUCKING HOUSE.

You say "if they found" as though they didn't confiscate tons of shit. You need a fucking picture to understand what dangerous materials are?

and why would i ever look up something for what im arguing against.

Because it's already part of the thread, and having to forcefeed you the facts feels like I'm breastfeeding a fucking child.

I don't understand why you think cops over-reacted, because you haven't given any specific wrongdoing.

I assume you don't really have an opinion on the protests at the RNC, and don't really care about the details.

Which is fine.

[Nitroglys]

At 9/6/08 07:06 PM, AreYouSure wrote:

GIVE ME A FUCKING LINK TO SUPPORT YOUR GOD DAMN STATEMENTS. EITHER DO SO OR STFU BEACUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY DONT KNOW HOW TO DEBATE.

every one of the links provided above were somewhat sympathetic to the raided not the raidees. SO FIND ME A LINK AND POST IT PROVING THE COPS WERE COMPLETELY IN THE RIGHT. If you can do that i will shut up. but untill then learn how to post. you cant just say im wrong and thats that.
geesh.

[LazyDrunk]

At 9/6/08 10:46 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

At 9/6/08 07:06 PM, AreYouSure wrote:

GIVE ME A FUCKING LINK TO SUPPORT YOUR GOD DAMN STATEMENTS. EITHER DO SO OR STFU BEACUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY DONT KNOW HOW TO DEBATE.

I'm saying cops arrested troublemakers. You're saying they harrassed the public. Prove it. I've proven that instigators and terrorists were apprehended. You've chosen to remain an ignorant fool. The Star Tribune even carried another scathing article directed at non-resident troublemakers.

If you're too lazy to find info for yourself, I won't change your e-diaper once you shit all over yourself trying to retract stupid and erroneous claims.

every one of the links provided above were somewhat sympathetic to the raided not the raidees.

You don't know how to read, then, I guess.

Sympathy and reporting the facts are two different things, case you were wondering.

[LazyDrunk]

Lemme help you kiddies out: "At least five suspected leaders of the RNC Welcoming Committee, a self-described anarchist group, were taken to the Hennepin County jail, and another was being sought, said Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher."

More: "On Saturday afternoon, he displayed a number of the confiscated items: a gun, throwing knives, a bow and arrows, flammable liquids, paint, slingshots, rocks and buckets of urine."

"Fletcher however, stressed that he and other agencies had informants planted inside this and other groups for "a long period of time."

He described the raids as a strike against the RNC Welcoming Committee, which has vowed to block delegate buses at the convention, among other disruptive actions."

------------------------

Address these please before you decide to click "Post it! >" again. Thank you.

Here's a link for you to ignore.

[AreYouSure]

"In an unrelated incident, a 23-year-old man was charged Friday with assault and terroristic threats for allegedly dropping a 50-pound bag of sand onto Interstate 94 on the first day of the Republican National Convention."

[Nitroglys]

At 9/6/08 10:52 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 9/6/08 10:46 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

At 9/6/08 07:06 PM, AreYouSure wrote:

GIVE ME A FUCKING LINK TO SUPPORT YOUR GOD DAMN STATEMENTS. EITHER DO SO OR STFU BEACUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY DONT KNOW HOW TO DEBATE.

I'm saying cops arrested troublemakers. You're saying they harrassed the public. Prove it. I've proven that instigators and terrorists were apprehended. You've chosen to remain an ignorant fool. The Star Tribune even carried another scathing article directed at non-resident troublemakers.

If you're too lazy to find info for yourself, I won't change your e-diaper once you shit all over yourself trying to retract stupid and erroneous claims.

every one of the links provided above were somewhat sympathetic to the raided not the raidees.

You don't know how to read, then, I guess.

Sympathy and reporting the facts are two different things, case you were wondering.

here are some quotes from your link.
Jordan Kushner, head of the mass defense committee of the National Lawyers Guild's Minnesota chapter, denied that criminal activity was being planned.

Arresting people on conspiracy charges to pre-empt disruptions is troubling because it stops people from exercising free-speech rights, said Chuck Samuelson, executive director of ACLU in Minnesota. He said he was also concerned about the broad scope of the search warrant. ACLU attorneys were monitoring the arrests, Samuelson said.

"The raids drew criticism from other than the targets.
Dave Thune, a St. Paul city councilman whose district includes the theater building used as a hub for the protesters, denounced the raid, saying people had a legal right to assemble there."

"A fourth home, this one in St. Paul, was raided Saturday afternoon. Two people were detained outside the home in handcuffs for about two hours before St. Paul police arrived with a search warrant. St. Paul police spokesman Tom Walsh could not confirm whether anyone had been arrested."
That sounds convienent. It is very supportive of the police.

But you want links. i'll give them.

Amy Goodman
Kate Byron and Steve Brusk
Lindsay Beyerstein
Even Fox News!!??
Glenn Greenwald

There are alot of people, not just people like me, who see these raids as an injustice. And how successful can you call it when they failed so bad. they probbaly insighted the riots they were "tryin to suppress." Too many innocent people were stepped on. And i remember a great quote from Benjamin Franklin Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 9/6/08 11:23 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

At 9/6/08 10:52 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 9/6/08 10:46 PM, Nitroglys wrote:

At 9/6/08 07:06 PM, AreYouSure wrote:

Jordan Kushner, head of the mass defense committee of the National Lawyers Guild's Minnesota chapter, denied that criminal activity was being planned.

As a Lawyer shouldn't he know that it's the courts that decide whether or not criminal activity was being planned.

These people were raided, under legal limits prescribed by the Constitution and the Supreme Court on Search and Siezure, were found with items and substances that would imply criminal activity and add reasonable cause for the actions of the cops.

Honestly, what are you complaining about? That you don't like the laws that are in place that the cops followed to the T, or do you just like to rebel with no reason?

This was simply one stupid splinter group that gives the vast majority of protesters that did it peacefully and in an organised manner a bad name.

[Nitroglys]

At 9/6/08 11:47 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

These people were raided, under legal limits prescribed by the Constitution and the Supreme Court on Search and Siezure, were found with items and substances that would imply criminal activity and add reasonable cause for the actions of the cops.

Honestly, what are you complaining about? That you don't like the laws that are in place that the cops followed to the T, or do you just like to rebel with no reason?

This was simply one stupid splinter group that gives the vast majority of protesters that did it peacefully and in an organised manner a bad name.

Im complaining about the many other people who were targeted and handled like terrorist simply beacuse they were activist groups. Not the one who were caught with the garden utensils, but teh ones like iwitness news who were just having the wrong opinion in the wrong place. That is unconstitutional. The raids were prejudiced against a ceartin group of people. and although they did find some unrulely ones, they also found a whole bunch of non-violent and innocent people. i mean they raided Food not bombs a group that fights for the money spent on bombs could feed the world. and i couldnt find an exact number of arrested but every stat i found was under 10. Compared to hundreds who were harrassed. So what that cops followed the rules, the "credentials" and "evidence" used was bullshit. You can get any warrant signed if you say they are suspected of terrorism thanks to the patriot act. What the police did was completely legal, that is what pisses me off. I believe not a singel person was saved in the raids. Nothing would have been different if they went on or not. Whats it matter, the police obviously suck at there job beacuse they still rioted. It was a big failure.