Lets Talk Caucasus.

[Battl3Mast3r]

Okay, enough speech and rhetoric about the ongoing conflict in Georgia and the separating regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. We are all exhausted with the topic, lets talk about something that others don't really talk about, an area that deserves attention:

This thread will be for these specific regions and countries (if applicable) and only these listed:

The Caucasus:
Adygea
Krasnodar
Karachai-Cherkessia
Stavropol
Kabardino-Balkaria
North Ossetia
Ingushetia
Chechnya
Dagestan

Transcaucasus
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Nagorno-Karbakh

Talk about the ethnic cleansings there, the constant struggles between some of these regions and their neighbors (often Russia). Talk about the oil wars that are going on there, humans' rights abuses, religious infiltration by Wahhabists into Dagestan and Chechnya. The 2004 Beslan school shootings. I could go on forever, just give the Georgia topic a well deserved break.

SPEAK

[animehater]

Azerbaijan needs to get back Nagorno-Karabakh by force if necessary. Though since that's exactly what Georgia did (sorry to go there) they might be less inclined to do so.

[qu3muchach0]

if i'm from iowa, does that mean my caucasus bigger than anyone else's?

[animehater]

At 8/25/08 11:48 PM, JimboBoy wrote: I think that Russia may give NASA some trouble as well:

Were talking about Caucasus related topics other than Georgia/Russia. Oh and I hear NASA will spend it's time investing in private space companies in between the retirement of this shuttle and the birth of the next.

Also, What are the odds of Transcaucasia reuniting this century? I know there's a lot of problems to be resolved but we've got a whole century here.

[Battl3Mast3r]

At 8/25/08 11:19 PM, animehater wrote: Azerbaijan needs to get back Nagorno-Karabakh by force if necessary. Though since that's exactly what Georgia did (sorry to go there) they might be less inclined to do so.

But 90% of the people who live there are ethnic Armenians... why bother stirring more conflict? The citizens there don't even pay taxes to the azeri gov't. It's just a prime example of poor soviet era cartography. The Azeris should just trade Nagorno-Karbakh for demographically azeri areas in Armenia. Seems like a fair trade, cartographically at least...

[Battl3Mast3r]

At 8/25/08 11:57 PM, animehater wrote:

At 8/25/08 11:48 PM, JimboBoy wrote: I think that Russia may give NASA some trouble as well:

Were talking about Caucasus related topics other than Georgia/Russia. Oh and I hear NASA will spend it's time investing in private space companies in between the retirement of this shuttle and the birth of the next.

Also, What are the odds of Transcaucasia reuniting this century? I know there's a lot of problems to be resolved but we've got a whole century here.

Transcausia? Will never happen. Armenia and Azerbaijan would never agree to it. The Caucasus has tried to reunite several times, but the ethnic divides and blood fueds keep the caucasus regions from uniting against russia. Plus, North Ossetia has no interest in seperating, Adygea is nearly completely russified, Ingushetia has seen what Russia has done to Chechnya and is doesn't see the struggle as worth it, given that they have tried seperating before, and Dagestan is technically "fine" right now, over 40 ethnic groups inside the area of connecticut--i'm surprised the place hasn't exploded already.

This area was designed to be divided and conquered through old soviet area cartography, russification, and the deportations in the 1940's killed too many people off (not to mention all their homes were transplanted with ethnic russians to weaken the voting power of the peoples who may return).

whew.

[animehater]

At 8/26/08 03:25 AM, Battl3Mast3r wrote: Transcausia? Will never happen. Armenia and Azerbaijan would never agree to it.

I'm sure that would all blow over in a few decades.

The Caucasus has tried to reunite several times, but the ethnic divides and blood feuds keep the Caucasus regions from uniting against Russia.

Let's just keep it an Transcaucasia.

Also, now that Russia has recognized the Georgian breakaway regions thus turning the entire country into the Cyprus of the east should the U.S recognize Chechnya or something?

[Gunter45]

The region has been fractured ever since '91. We have to realize that 17 years isn't a whole lot of time to develop stability, especially when all of your neighbors are in the same mire you are. The whole region is undergoing some serious political strife and that's just the nature of the beast.

None of these countries were ready to split off from the USSR. Their entire political system was turned upside down, their economy was absolutely destabilized and its not like they could turn to anyone for aid at that point. All of their neighbors have been in the same situation and Russia has been dealing with stuff of its own. They didn't have a game plan for the fall of the USSR and when it happened, it hit them hard and it's going to take more time to deal with it and that's provided they stop clawing at each other, dragging themselves further into political instability.

This is partly why I'm not at all disapproving of Russia's actions, of late. I fail to see how expansionism is a bad thing, even in this day and age, especially given that it's a mutually beneficial relationship. Russia gets more territory and expands its influence and, in return, these fractured countries are able to lean on the more politically and economically stable Russia so they can finally put the in fighting behind them. What's more, their civil wars become Russia's civil war and they can depend on the backing of Russia's rapidly improving military to handle insurgency and civil unrest.

It completely baffles me how the entire Western world is projecting its own cultural values on the situation, seeing as how they fit about as well as a square block in a round hole. The actions that are going on are very historically Russian, I'm failing to see how this comes as any surprise to the international community and why there's such an outcry against it.

[Exlipse]

Mates, i am from Russia, and probably i can say you something new about it, cause i live much closer to these regions than you.
The Caucasus:
Adygea
I really don't know about conflicts in this region. I just can say i was here with my parents on resorts and i have never seen national troubles here. At least there is no news here, but there is Sochi. A city of Olympiade 2014. I think nonbody shall make this event here if there were some troubles.
Krasnodar
Its a very comfortable town with peaches, grapes and so on so on. My granny lives here, and i can say surely - thereare no racial conflicts and
Karachai-Cherkessia
Kabardino-Balkaria
Ingushetia
Chechnya
My knowledge is only out of news - sometimes terrorist try to make here their attacks. There are nobody i know here, so i am sorry.
Stavropol
One my cool mate came from this city. Its okay here, people arent so rich, though, but they live here without any aggression.
North Ossetia
Beslan. I know one girl from NO, she came to Moscow to learn in one of our Universities. She was in hospital when Beslan tragedy happens and was hardly impressed when she was talking to victims of that accident. Here lives Ossetians and Russians. There is no national or terroristic conflicts here.
I can say - we both have one religion. Ossetians became ortodoxal before Russians, Armenians and Georgians.
Dagestan
Here lives Avars. They make perfect vine and congac - thats all i no, but out of our news - it okay here.
Transcaucasus
Armenia
I think everyone knows System of a Down. They are from here. Armenians and Georgians are neighbours, they are Ortodoxes but there is one big difference. Georgians are more singers than warriors, neither Armenians. These nations had conflicts very often and usually Armenians won. Now it is a very poor country, after USSR collapsed, there is only devastation. There are only alcohol industry and resorts - nothing more. A lot of Armenians immgrated to Russia. There are lot of casinos andcafes belong to Armenians. Also i remember my Armenian mates and my Math teacher when i was in school - she was Armenian, and everyone liked her very much. I just can say Armenia and Russia are allies.
Azerbaijan
Nagorno-Karbakh
I have never been here, i just now about strong Azer mafia. Sorry
Khazakhstan
If you are interested - just see names of Khaz sportsmen in Olympiade in China.They all are like Ivanov, Petrov and so on. 60% people are Russian and everyone talks Russian here. No racial or terroristic conflicts.

There are more than 150 nations in Russia - from Germans living near Volga to Caucasians. And i know in EU and US they called us 'russians'. We are one big nation.

[Kasualty]

it's a shitty region of the world.

discussion over.

[Battl3Mast3r]

At 8/28/08 05:04 AM, Kasualty wrote: it's a shitty region of the world.

discussion over.

It probably has the worst fortune, yeah.

[animehater]

Alright then. What are the odds of an independent Chechnya this century?