Ban Shaggy?

[poxpower]

Ok let's go for something unorthodox.
I think you guys are smart enough to have a say. As some of you may know, there is a moron on this forum called "shaggytheclown" who I won't link to since if you don't know him you shouldn't say anything.

Legend has it that he's a troll.
He keep posting in tons of topics without every saying anything smart or quoting anything.

But I'd feel bad depriving all of you people who like to reply to him constantly of the joy of thinking he reads anything you write.

So I'll leave it up to you.

Should he or shouldn't he get his ass booted from the forum?

60 replies or 24 hours to decide. Keep in mind that he's not really clearly breaking rules, he's just really stupid and I think a lot of people are tired of seeing him derail threads while completely ignoring everything that is said.

so ok yah GO

[Gunter45]

I don't read anything he writes, anyway. Honestly, the only reason he's still around is because people actually reply to his nonsense. You wouldn't have to ban him if people didn't get such hard-ons for frothing at the mouth at his bullshit.

[Jackrabbit-slims]

if he is not a troll, then he doesn't deserve to be banned, maybe just put a permanent sign on his user page that says "i am a moron, disregard anything i say"

if he is a troll, then yes ban him because that would be just like posting for the sake of getting your postcount up without caring what you put in there

so i really dont know i think it is, overall, wrong to ban him but hes such a pain in the ass i will go flip a coin

heads for ban, tails for no ban...

haha heads ban him

[Elfer]

He doesn't contribute anything to the topics he posts in. Additionally, his posts have recently become even more insane and inflammatory, which strongly suggests he's some sort of troll just trying to get a rise out of people now that they've started to ignore him.

On the off chance that he actually is some sort of wack job, I'd say we should give him a brief trial period to shape up, but then we'd have to reconvene afterwards to decide if he'd improved at all.

If this is a one-time opportunity though, I guess I'd say he's been persistent enough in his meritless posting that he should be banned.

[poxpower]

To clarify:

- there's no way of knowing he's a troll, so assume he's just a moron.
- the only thing that I can do is ban him from the entire bbs, I can't ban him just from on forum.

I can't write anything on his sig, his user page his posts or whatever.

I've already banned him once a couple months ago for just posting and posting and posting and never ever replying to anything anyone said. That's practically spamming and that's all he does and he's been warned time and time again.

So.

Yah.

[SHIT-TANK]

Shaggy should absolutely be banned for two reasons.

1) This thread

2) And this topic

He completely ran these two thread into the ground in a bloddy masscare of human intellect. He never has anything coherent to contribute and flip flops between his beleifs. And I though that starting flame wars that big was against the rules anyway.

If you need anymore proof as to way he should be banned for trolling, I present to you the infamous "Fake DNA qoute" from the thread Born Gay? The Incomplete Truth!

Shaggytheclow17

don believe that, that alienates all gay people as a dead end of our DNA, even though I am not a supporter of the gay way of being, being gay is a choice not something you can't control.

Lets say a "gay" person grew up in a family that was very against homosexuality, that person will likely not be gay ever even if that person were to have the "gay gene".

The people researching it probably don't look for the same gene in non gay people, they prolly just draw up a fake piece of DNA to represent a normal one er something.

But anyway, if it is true then that gives a little more disproof to the theory of evolution, believed to be an upward process, our DNA is breaking down not being added to.

Are you fucking serious?

[Al6200]

I have a fun idea. Let's give Shaggy an ultimatum to do a "formalish" (as in abidding by structured rules, like that you must post a constructive and respond point by point) debate with PoxPower/Elfer/me on something like common descent or the existence of the Judea-Christian God, and see if he's actually capable of following a set of rules. Hopefully being in a debate and being REQUIRED to actually respond to other people point by point and discuss a topic like an adult will make him change his mind about some of his views.

That said, I have trouble believing that Shaggy could really be that stupid and still be on Newgrounds. I mean, you think he'd eventually fall for the "Delete the system32 folder to fix your sprites" trick. Heck, I'd except Shaggy to fall for that trick twice.

[Musician]

I vote that we don't ban him, since he's not breaking any rules, and that's all that should matter.

[Pontificate]

On the one hand he's an utter fool who never does anything but derail threads and post, quite frankly, inflammatory hate speech. On the other hand he's an utter fool who has equal rights to all of us and probably isn't aware just how offensive and boorish he is.

As a high-minded idealist I am afraid I must say that, pathetic though he is, he has not explicitly broken any rules and to start banning people simply because they're vexxing (admittedly this is an extreme case) is to set a disturbing precedent.

[Elfer]

At 8/21/08 12:10 PM, Musician wrote: I vote that we don't ban him, since he's not breaking any rules, and that's all that should matter.

He's in violation of the spirit of the rules though. One thing mentioned in the general conduct section is "If you can't make a positive contribution to a topic, don't post."

Also, the rules have a history of being bent for special cases, i.e. particularly good or particularly bad posters. For example, Stamper can do essentially anything he wants, while Gexgarrett was banned from the forums for a number of years for his actions in the NG chat.

[reviewer-general]

I like the idea of a final warning, a trial period, and if he can't improve, a ban.

He doesn't contribute to the BBS at all in any constructive manner. This is a private website, and as such there could DEFINITELY be intelligence requirements. (Just like I think the mods should take grammar and spelling more seriously.)

There's really no reason why he deserves to stay on the BBS. To be fair, give him a week, month, whatever to try and shape up, but when he can't, get him the fuck out of here.

Oh, I can't wait until he sees this thread. :D

;

[MrHero17]

Allowing Shaggy to post is extremely detrimental to the state of the theads in this forum so I am in favor of banning him for a while, a good long wile.

[Gunter45]

At 8/21/08 12:24 PM, reviewer-general wrote: I like the idea of a final warning, a trial period, and if he can't improve, a ban.

Does anybody seriously this will do anything at all?

Has that worked for anybody who's not a 5 year old? Actually, does that even work on 5 year olds?

[Al6200]

At 8/21/08 12:10 PM, Musician wrote: I vote that we don't ban him, since he's not breaking any rules, and that's all that should matter.

Two rules that he MAY have broken:

Using racist, sexist, homophobic or hateful language.

When he said "[evolution is] believed to be an upward process, our DNA is breaking down not being added to.", as a response to gay people, he's effectively calling gay people sub-human, and a deterioration from purer straight people. That's homophobic language if you ask me.

Trolling: cruising the boards looking for a fight.

He may or may not be a troll. I'm going to guess that he isn't a troll, but it's hard to say.

And I think that it would be good not to just give him a trial period, but to make him actually debate someone intelligently so that he can show that he's not just a troll, and is really interested in discussing politics like an adult.

[Musician]

Elfer and Al, while I understand and respect the point you're trying to make, every one of his violations is completely subjective. Objectively he hasn't violated any of the rules. And to be honest, I think this topic is a mistake, it's not our place to pass these kinds of judgments on our peers (by which I mean, getting banned or not). It's better left to the discretion of those who own and run the board.

[Elfer]

At 8/21/08 12:38 PM, Musician wrote: Elfer and Al, while I understand and respect the point you're trying to make, every one of his violations is completely subjective. Objectively he hasn't violated any of the rules.

So? The rules themselves are subjective.

Besides, if his presence is detrimental to the board, why bother keeping him around for the sake of bureaucracy?

[Al6200]

On another note, I don't believe that it is right to ban someone for having a mental handicap that is outside of their control. We should be helping these people to understand why they're wrong, not punishing them.

[BrianEtrius]

While he is not a troll, he has troll-like notions. First it's cute, but now it's like grow up.

Give him one thread to prove himself. If not, ban the sucker.

Oh, by the way, what ever happened to two of our favorite trolls, troubles1 and GunnerX86? I know I blew them both out of the water in their topics, but where the hell are they?

[Musician]

At 8/21/08 12:49 PM, Elfer wrote: So? The rules themselves are subjective.

Besides, if his presence is detrimental to the board, why bother keeping him around for the sake of bureaucracy?

The problem is, whether he's detrimental to the board is also entirely subjective. I could argue that Memorize is detrimental to the board and is most likely a troll, but for some reason we're not voting on whether we should ban him. I'm sure someone out there feels the same way about me, and would say that I'm detrimental to the board.

So the question is Elfer, if you were in Shaggies position, how would you feel about your ablity to stay on this board being reduced to little more than a popularity contest? I wouldn't accept this standard for myself, and I wont accept it for anyone else on the board, no matter how much I dislike them.

[Jackrabbit-slims]

UNCONDITIONAL evidence for shaggy's ban, from the BBS rules

Use proper punctuation and grammar.

there. he's gone.

[EndGameOmega]

I haven't been around much, but from what I've seen shaggy is just a troll. In all his post I've faild to see a single usful or insiteful stament. Additionaly I've seen him use rather hateful and scornful language. Personaly I'm a fogiving person, so I'd give him one final altimatum then ban him. But he's definitly a troll and needs to stop, one way or another.

[Elfer]

At 8/21/08 01:04 PM, Musician wrote: The problem is, whether he's detrimental to the board is also entirely subjective. I could argue that Memorize is detrimental to the board and is most likely a troll, but for some reason we're not voting on whether we should ban him.

His posts do sometimes have redeeming qualities. He also actively engages in coherent discussion with other members of the board, rather than just

So the question is Elfer, if you were in Shaggies position, how would you feel about your ablity to stay on this board being reduced to little more than a popularity contest? I wouldn't accept this standard for myself, and I wont accept it for anyone else on the board, no matter how much I dislike them.

Depends. Are we saying if I was a completely different person? If so, I'd probably be angry and think it was some sort of lame conspiracy and that I should be able to say whatever I want whenever I want wherever I want without consequence.

As things are, I'm fully prepared to take responsibility for everything I post. Since I'm representing myself here, I make a decent effort to be coherent, engaging, rational, and so on.

I'd be fully willing to undergo a vote to determine whether or not I should stay on the board, so long as the voting was based on non-partisan reasoning. I'm quite confident that my behaviour on the board has been good enough that the majority of users would consider me more than a perpetual headache. What I wouldn't accept is "popularity contest" style voting, where people vote without giving any reason at all. Since pretty much everyone here seems to have legitimate complaints about shaggy, that doesn't really appear to be an issue.

If you want things to be even and fair, you can request that pox make a topic about me. I've got no problems with it.

[poxpower]

At 8/21/08 12:56 PM, Al6200 wrote: On another note, I don't believe that it is right to ban someone for having a mental handicap that is outside of their control.

He's just stupid.
Won't help him to stay around here, he just keeps getting stupider.
Everything bounces right off his rockhard dome.

At 8/21/08 01:04 PM, Musician wrote:

So the question is Elfer, if you were in Shaggies position, how would you feel about your ablity to stay on this board being reduced to little more than a popularity contest?

If I was him, I would be a moron who's repeatedly failed to heed warnings to stop ignoring everyone.
Hey if you were a drunk driver who's killed someone, would you want to go to jail for it?
I wouldn't. I think I would definitely deserve to go off scott free.

[Elfer]

At 8/21/08 01:14 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 8/21/08 01:04 PM, Musician wrote: The problem is, whether he's detrimental to the board is also entirely subjective. I could argue that Memorize is detrimental to the board and is most likely a troll, but for some reason we're not voting on whether we should ban him.

His posts do sometimes have redeeming qualities. He also actively engages in coherent discussion with other members of the board, rather than just

Hmm, must have forgotten to put an end on that thought. It should say something more like this:

His posts do sometimes have redeeming qualities. He also actively engages in coherent discussion with other members of the board, rather than just posting repeatedly and unilaterally with no consideration given to the current discussion.

Shaggy's posts demonstrate that he isn't interested in discussion, he's only interested in insulting everyone and making poorly-worded assertions.

[animehater]

Shaggy isn't the only moron on this forum. There's plenty of people who come here with their own ignorant views and rants about nothing thinking they would actually be accepted who's names generally don't matter to people because they are all the same. I just think that if you do get rid of him, you should also get rid of anyone who tries to take up his torch as soon as possible. You shouldn't just look at him when there's other people out there just as dumb.

[LordJaric]

I don't think we have the right to ban him

but I say we just ignore him from now on.

[MrHero17]

At 8/21/08 01:22 PM, LordJaric wrote: I don't think we have the right to ban him

but I say we just ignore him from now on.

As a mod they kinda do, anyone who isn't engaging in any sort of conversation and is posting soley to get a rise out of people while ignoring any and all replys to the weak and unfounded arguments he often makes absolutely deserves to no longer be allowed on the forums.

[BrianEtrius]

At 8/21/08 01:26 PM, MrHero17 wrote:

At 8/21/08 01:22 PM, LordJaric wrote:

As a mod they kinda do, anyone who isn't engaging in any sort of conversation and is posting soley to get a rise out of people while ignoring any and all replys to the weak and unfounded arguments he often makes absolutely deserves to no longer be allowed on the forums.

So know instead of banning him you just what to ignore him? I don't understand what you are saying.

[Musician]

At 8/21/08 01:14 PM, Elfer wrote: His posts do sometimes have redeeming qualities. He also actively engages in coherent discussion with other members of the board, rather than just

Once again, both subjective. I could make an argument that I believe Memorize contributes absolutely nothing the board and should be banned for all our sakes. We could have a vote thread like this and I'm sure quite a few people would vote for him to be gone because he's a complete fuckwit. But like I said, that would just be a popularity contest. All anyone who wanted him banned would have to say is "He's not a good contributer, I think he should be banned". They could get away with saying that because it's completely opinionated. So you see, a popularity contest is the only kind of vote we can ever really have.

Depends. Are we saying if I was a completely different person? If so, I'd probably be angry and think it was some sort of lame conspiracy and that I should be able to say whatever I want whenever I want wherever I want without consequence.

Heh, lets assume you're not completely different, just very unpopular with the other members of the board.

I'd be fully willing to undergo a vote to determine whether or not I should stay on the board, so long as the voting was based on non-partisan reasoning.

Only thing is you can't guarantee it will be.

If you want things to be even and fair, you can request that pox make a topic about me. I've got no problems with it.

You're missing the point man. The moderators should be the ones to moderate. It shouldn't be left up to a vote.

[aninjaman]

At 8/21/08 01:22 PM, LordJaric wrote: I don't think we have the right to ban him

but I say we just ignore him from now on.

I agree. He has been annoying but not broken a rule. But I think an warning like "start backing up your information or acually responding or you will be banned" would work. Also their are people that agree with him that will take his flame if he dies. You cant ban him for being wrong.