21 Drinking Age Reform possibility?

[Tancrisism]

College Presidents say 21 Drinking age isn't working.

Fuck, we've been saying it all along. Mothers Against Drunk Driving you counter-progressive cunts, eat cold hard statistical truth.

[Memorize]

While we're at it, let's make gambling legal at age 18.

Nothing like allowing people who are most likely, still living with their parents, the ability or opportunity to fuck their lives up even further while still allowing them to vote.

[Elfer]

At 8/19/08 01:54 PM, Memorize wrote: While we're at it, let's make gambling legal at age 18.

Nothing like allowing people who are most likely, still living with their parents, the ability or opportunity to fuck their lives up even further while still allowing them to vote.

Young people don't vote anyway.

Regardless of the legal drinking age, the best way to combat risky drinking behaviour among youths is to introduce them to responsible drinking at home, rather than letting them find out about drinking by sneaking around to unsupervised parties and drinking themselves sick.

[hrb5711]

At 8/19/08 01:41 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Fuck, we've been saying it all along. Mothers Against Drunk Driving you counter-progressive cunts, eat cold hard statistical truth.

Yeah look at Germany where they have a lower drinking age and 18-24 yr olds account for 30% of all alchohol related accidents! Thats what we want here! And a bunch of high school seinors running around buying beer, because they are mature enough to make that decision!

Besides do you believe for a second lowering the drinking age will change drinking habits?

And don't give me the "but you can vote, join the military, and be on a jury at 18." I think the age should be higher for those things also. 21 should be the age for all of it. By that time you are out of highschool and have either gone to a little college or gotten a 40 hr a week job. You have a little actual life experience and are cabable of making those decisions.

[Jackrabbit-slims]

At 8/19/08 01:54 PM, Memorize wrote: While we're at it, let's make gambling legal at age 18.

Nothing like allowing people who are most likely, still living with their parents, the ability or opportunity to fuck their lives up even further while still allowing them to vote.

Just because you are capable of jumping off a building doesn't mean you will.

Get a clue you narrow minded prick.

You know what else will fuck up peoples lives? World of Warcraft, no kidding. I played it for awhile and i had great fun but now i dont, and im fine. I know people, however, that flunked out of high school and college because all they wanted to do was play this game. Guess what? alot of them still lived with their parents.

They fucked up their lives without ever leaving their room, so don't tell me changing the gambling or drinking age is a bad thing because it gives kids the opportunity to fuck up their lives.

As for the OP, yes i completely agree, having lived in a european society (drinking age of 18) for my high school years, I would say that doing this would not create widespread problems as suggested by narrow minded pricks.

It isnt about prohibition, it is about education.

[Tancrisism]

At 8/19/08 02:02 PM, hrb5711 wrote:

At 8/19/08 01:41 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Fuck, we've been saying it all along. Mothers Against Drunk Driving you counter-progressive cunts, eat cold hard statistical truth.

Yeah look at Germany where they have a lower drinking age and 18-24 yr olds account for 30% of all alchohol related accidents! Thats what we want here! And a bunch of high school seinors running around buying beer, because they are mature enough to make that decision!

Did you attend high school? If so, did you drink, or did you witness seniors drinking?

I recently went to England and stayed with a friend there. In England, the legal drinking age is 18. As it was, the culture had found it so that you don't necessarily get sloshed every time you drink, you can just go to a pub and drink a drink or two socially. It was my experience that these people know how to control their drinking much better than any American 21 year old, and they were only 18 and 19.

I can't argue with your desire to raise everything to 21, although I know that people will still smoke and drink. Making it illegal does nothing but make it so you aren't able to talk about it, so you can't learn anything from it.

[Jackrabbit-slims]

At 8/19/08 02:02 PM, hrb5711 wrote: Yeah look at Germany where they have a lower drinking age and 18-24 yr olds account for 30% of all alchohol related accidents! Thats what we want here! And a bunch of high school seinors running around buying beer, because they are mature enough to make that decision!

Do you honestly think the US is any different? First off, give a link for that statistic. Secondly, i would like to see the actual NUMBER of crashes per capita (not in total, but as a percent of the total population). Once, you have that we can compare it to the United States and we will see how that goes.

If you can show me that Germany is an off-the-wall demolition derby on the highway then i will give you that point but so far you haven't shown anything substantial or surprising.

Besides do you believe for a second lowering the drinking age will change drinking habits?

Actually yes. Why? Did you even look at the article linked in the original post?

Six college presidents in Maryland are among more than 100 college and university presidents nationwide who have signed a statement calling for a public debate on rethinking the drinking age.

They are college, fucking, presidents. Maybe they have just a *bit* of experience in this area? Just maybe? What experience do you have...?

If this is a double post sorry, but like i said (and is supported in the article) we need to stress education in order to prevent abuse, not prohibition.

[Gunter45]

At 8/19/08 02:16 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Did you attend high school? If so, did you drink, or did you witness seniors drinking?

Nobody drinks in High School, it's illegal.

Besides, the drinking age used to be 18 in the US. It's not like this would be radical and new. The reasoning behind raising the drinking age to 21 in the first place was dubious at best. I have no problem with this.

[Memorize]

At 8/19/08 02:04 PM, Jackrabbit-slims wrote:

Get a clue you narrow minded prick.

Way to miss the point.

I've been waiting a while for something like this to happen. I thought it was funny as hell that kids were able to vote at age 18, but not gamble or drink.

Apparently, kids still living with their parents who have a meager income (if any) and don't own any property, are somehow capable enough to make a rational decision on voting for who would technically be the most powerful person in the world (the president).

But, you know, not drink or gamble.

It isnt about prohibition, it is about education.

*talks to an alcoholic*

"Hey... did you learn anything?"

Alcoholic: "Yup... don't drink" *takes up bottle*

[Jackrabbit-slims]

At 8/19/08 02:24 PM, Memorize wrote: Apparently, kids still living with their parents who have a meager income (if any) and don't own any property, are somehow capable enough to make a rational decision on voting for who would technically be the most powerful person in the world (the president).

So in order to make a rational decision (like voting for the president) you need to have more than a meager income and own property? No, i no thats not what you meant, because if it was that would certainly be a very asinine conclusion. Please, don't generalize on the rationality of young adults today, because you are stereotyping my people.

Well you never really made an argument here (seriously, you didn't), so i won't justify this response beyond reaffirming my suspicions that you are narrow minded.

Alcoholic: "Yup... don't drink" *takes up bottle*

Im sorry but I don't know what this means, is it supposed to be funny?

[hrb5711]

At 8/19/08 02:19 PM, Jackrabbit-slims wrote: If this is a double post sorry, but like i said (and is supported in the article) we need to stress education in order to prevent abuse, not prohibition.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144 ,2352317,00.html

I'm all about educating kids on drinking. And yes they still do drink underage but it is much harder for them to get than if it was legal. And I am not going to sit here and argue about numbers of traffic accidents, you can't prove and I can't prove that lowering the drinking age would lead to more alcohol related crashes in the US. All I was stating was a country with a lower drinking age has a disproportionate amount of alcohol related crashes for that age group.

And all those president's are assuming kids will be more responsible drinkers if it is legal. That's like saying, hey college kids are getting bad grades for not doing homework....so lets not have homework anymore and educate them on studying more and they will do it on their own!

And where is this huge drinking problem in schools anyways? If you want to talks facts and statistics look at this article. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Underag eDrinking.html

How about instead of lowering the drinking age we try educating more with these programs they want to use after the drinking age is lowered. What is wrong with that?

[animehater]

I have no problem with bringing back full on prohibition myself.

[Jackrabbit-slims]

At 8/19/08 02:44 PM, hrb5711 wrote: And all those president's are assuming kids will be more responsible drinkers if it is legal. That's like saying, hey college kids are getting bad grades for not doing homework....so lets not have homework anymore and educate them on studying more and they will do it on their own!

I would respectfully disagree and offer my own reason for why college kids get bad grades, drinking. Yes the heaviest drinkers in college statistically get the worst grades (comes from many statistics hosted by my own colleges alcohol abuse program, which i can't link because its an encrypted page, but you can probably find it elsewhere).

However, way more than half of college kids do not binge (excessive) drink, they drink more socially and frequently, meaning 1-2 drinks every session about 2 times a week. (also from college) The kids in this demographic do not show any statistical signs of struggling in academics. But guess what, they are still breaking the law!

So another reason why lowering the drinking age would be to spare these young, responsible drinkers from risk of undeserved punishment, and to create education opportunities for the problem kids. (see below)

How about instead of lowering the drinking age we try educating more with these programs they want to use after the drinking age is lowered. What is wrong with that?

To be honest, i dont know the specifics of why this is a problem, but this quote from the article seems to sum it up.

"I really think we've got to somehow be able to control it better because what we have done now is driven it underground, and we can't do anything about it," said Tipson, the Washington College president. "There are a lot of things we could do if it wasn't underground."

as well as...

He said the debate should not be just about lowering the drinking age. It's more important, he said, to focus on better alcohol abuse education on campuses or in driver education courses. But now, he said, new ideas can't be tested because of the federal law.

[Elfer]

At 8/19/08 02:24 PM, Memorize wrote:

It isnt about prohibition, it is about education.

*talks to an alcoholic*

"Hey... did you learn anything?"

Alcoholic: "Yup... don't drink" *takes up bottle*

*goes back in time and implements an education campaign while the alcoholic is still young*

"Hey, did you learn anything?"

Lawyer: "Yeah, I learned how to do law stuff"

"I meant about drinking"

Lawyer: "Oh yeah. It's okay to drink sometimes, I guess."

[morefngdbs]

At 8/19/08 01:59 PM, Elfer wrote: Regardless of the legal drinking age, the best way to combat risky drinking behaviour among youths is to introduce them to responsible drinking at home, rather than letting them find out about drinking by sneaking around to unsupervised parties and drinking themselves sick.

;;;;
Nicely put Elfer.
If young adults were to drink with family & friends at home or in a licensed business, that didn't over serve, they might not drink themselves comatose. They wouldn't have to 'sneak' around & maybe they would learn to drink responsibly. Take cabs instead of driving & not think drinking until you puke is how to do it !

[bobomajo]

At 8/19/08 01:54 PM, Memorize wrote: While we're at it, let's make gambling legal at age 18.

Nothing like allowing people who are most likely, still living with their parents, the ability or opportunity to fuck their lives up even further while still allowing them to vote.

Yet somehow they are responsible enough, to drive a car, and can make the decision that would significantly decrease their life expectancy (serve the army in combat). This is the folly of policy based on emotion, your a monster if you don't support it but it never fucking accomplishes anything.

In a perfect world we would place decision making responsibility based on responsibility not age. Maybe a national responsibility test? lol

[adrshepard]

At 8/19/08 03:37 PM, bobomajo wrote: In a perfect world we would place decision making responsibility based on responsibility not age. Maybe a national responsibility test? lol

And in that world all insurance would be based on thorough investigations and interviews with everyone who applied. But it isn't that world and I still pay through the roof for car insurance because of my demographic.

I love the people who think education is always the answer. Guess what? Education doesn't make you smart or responsible. It just makes you aware of certain things and helps prepare you for a job.
Drinking isn't something that's "hushed up", something that needs to be brought out in the open for everyone to understand. Kids know that drinking can cause you to get intoxicated and do crazy shit. If kids watch TV, they also know that drinking and driving is bad. These aren't hard concepts to get across.

Alcohol is dangerous and can be abused, and there's nothing public institutions can tell kids about it that they don't already know. How making alcohol available to more irresponsible people (sorry Jack Rabbit Slims, your people are immature, if only because people grow wiser with age) will improve the situation boggles my mind.

Memorize has the right idea. So many of you are dwelling upon the fact that people can get away with drinking underage or how you feel that laws are only legitimate if you agree with them that you miss the point of the age requirement in the first place: to keep alcohol away from those who are less able to use it responsibly.

Sure, 18 year-olds can join the army, but they train the shit out of you first, not just hand you a gun and send you to the front lines. They can also serve on a jury, but don't you think all the immature punks are screened out in jury selection? You can also gamble, but that only can ever hurt yourself (and it's not like most 18 year olds can ruin their lives gambling away their token savings). So forget about all those other "legitimate" abilities of 18 year-olds.

[Brick-top]

At 8/19/08 01:54 PM, Memorize wrote: While we're at it, let's make gambling legal at age 18.

Ummm....irrelevent much?

Nothing like allowing people who are most likely, still living with their parents, the ability or opportunity to fuck their lives up even further while still allowing them to vote.

Oh yeah that's right EVERYBODY abuses drinking and ends up an alcoholic.

When in reality when people are denied alcohol for a extended peroid of time when they do become legal they binge and constantly drink. It happens all the time.

So introducing the alcohol early will not make it more desirable.

[illiriks]

Ok. Back in the old days, the drinking age in the US and A was between 14-18, depending on where you lived. Now, the Federal Govermunt decided that high schoolers drinking was not a good idea. So, they threatened to quit financing shit if the states didnt change their ages to 21. So there.

[Earfetish]

Memorize is the most grotchety-old-man 19-year-old ever. Your peers are old enough to drink. They do it everywhere else fine, and it's far better to be open about it and for it not to be terrible for you to come home drunk. We're all remarkably sensible; the worst that happens is vomiting and the odd bit of night-time thuggish aggression, usually initiated by someone in their mid-twenties.

[hrb5711]

At 8/19/08 05:32 PM, Brick-top wrote:

When in reality when people are denied alcohol for a extended peroid of time when they do become legal they binge and constantly drink. It happens all the time.

Actually most college students don't binge as soon as it becomes legal to them, or even while it is illegal. So where did you get your fact from?

[Jackrabbit-slims]

At 8/19/08 04:41 PM, adrshepard wrote: How making alcohol available to more irresponsible people (sorry Jack Rabbit Slims, your people are immature, if only because people grow wiser with age) will improve the situation boggles my mind.

Alcohol is already in the hands of people under the legal age. In high school, as I remember, there was rarely a time when anyone worried about whether alcohol was 'available'. I would call you naive but I don't think the message would get across.

And if my people are irresponsible, and people grow older with age, then it would seem quite absurd, by your logic, that over a hundred college presidents are calling for drinking age reform.

you miss the point of the age requirement in the first place: to keep alcohol away from those who are less able to use it responsibly.

How has that been working out so far?

You can also gamble, but that only can ever hurt yourself

No, not really. Wrong.

[n64kid]

I hate these thread.

The original argument as presented by the article

Kids are irresponsible with alcohol, they overuse and abuse it, so we might as well make it legal for them to do so.

Now I go to a party school, and the norm is 2-4 kegs, 5 bucks bottomless beer. The police know it and don't enforce shit or will atmost issue a drinking fine which is pretty cheap. The only reason why college presidents call for a lowering of the drinking age is just to save resources on campus police. There are no good arguments for lowering the drinking age to 18 in the US, and contrary to the campus president's logic, lowering the drinking age won't lead to less drinking on a campus.

To Memorize: Gambling age in Indian Casinos in Californa is 18

To everyone who uses the "How can we die for our country at 18 but not allow 18 year olds to drink"

If you're in the army, you can drink on baseat 18 except on certain bases with a history of accidents from 18-21 y.o. drinking.

Take that Mr. if it's allowed, people won't abuse it.

[hrb5711]

At 8/19/08 05:52 PM, n64kid wrote:

If you're in the army, you can drink on baseat 18 except on certain bases with a history of accidents from 18-21 y.o. drinking.

I would love to see where you pulled that from!

You should check out DOD instruction 1015.10 before you go spouting off that nonsense.

There are some events where the drinking age can be lowered to 18, but it is rare.

[Shaggytheclown17]

At 8/19/08 01:41 PM, Tancrisism wrote: College Presidents say 21 Drinking age isn't working.

Fuck, we've been saying it all along. Mothers Against Drunk Driving you counter-progressive cunts, eat cold hard statistical truth.

Know what, fuck everyone here talking about lowering the drinking age, you guys can drink illegally and die young if you want, jack the fking age up to 30, n if people violate it then charge them a huge effing fine n possibly jail time, haha.
Maybe if enough people violate it they'll drop the prices of things n lower gas er something lol.
Too many stupid kids on this site to have a serious conversation anyway 8(

Lets hope these kids don't go shooting up their schools cuz they have no beer to drink or have their weed taken away so they have no way of coping with their stupidity.

[SolInvictus]

At 8/19/08 06:20 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: ...

topic coherence isn't one of your strong suits is it?

[Shaggytheclown17]

Also, anyone here who has the right idea about drinking ages, don't bother replying to the negative kids here, they're just made cuz blah blah blah underage drinking is cool to them, n so is getting pregant at 12, dieing in drunk driving accidents, gang fights, prostitution n all that other stuff kids do nowadays.

It isn't worth arguing about if there are no intelligent people to talk to, man I wish this site had more decent mods so there wouldn't be so many kids, its sad.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

kids like you shaggy unsuitable to use the internet?

[adrshepard]

At 8/19/08 05:51 PM, Jackrabbit-slims wrote: Alcohol is already in the hands of people under the legal age. In high school, as I remember, there was rarely a time when anyone worried about whether alcohol was 'available'. I would call you naive but I don't think the message would get across.

So everyone in high school who wants alcohol can always get it whenever they want in the same amount of time it would take to go out and buy some. I would call you full of shit, but I don't think the message would get across.

And if my people are irresponsible, and people grow older with age, then it would seem quite absurd, by your logic, that over a hundred college presidents are calling for drinking age reform.

Not quite. Maybe if the hundred were raging alcholics you would make sense. In reality, they just realize there isn't much they can do about it anyway, even if they meant to enforce it, and they are tired of either people complaining that there is underage drinking or tired of keeping up appearances that they care.

you miss the point of the age requirement in the first place: to keep alcohol away from those who are less able to use it responsibly.

How has that been working out so far?

I don't know, does something only work for you if it does so 100% of the time? How many criminals have been stopped from buying firearms because they would never be able to get a license? How many people have not committed a crime because they feared being caught? How many licks does it take to get to the middle of your lazy-ass mind?

You can also gamble, but that only can ever hurt yourself

No, not really. Wrong.

OH, of COURSE all addicts are physically compelled to become thieves and criminals! I thought we were talking about those mythical individuals who are obsessed with gambling and, you know, don't embezzle, steal, or murder! Good thing you gave me that link there sir, for I now understand what every gambling addict does.

[Shaggytheclown17]

At 8/19/08 06:26 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: kids like you shaggy unsuitable to use the internet?

(sarcastic laugh) hahaha, very funny Mr.Iwantmyboozenowwithoutgettingintotrou ble.
I'm sure your age has nothing to do with your assoholicness here.