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It all started a few days ago when I watched Bowling For Columbine in my English class and started talking about the movie's themes in class. We went on for hours about the American government blaming anything and everything for corrupting the world and we also spent hours on how and why the media uses paranoia and fear in order to get people on their side. Now, normally I love debates so this was nothing new for me. I just sat back and sucked it all up...
Then, last night, I decided to kill a few brain cells by watching South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut. After watching something as politically-minded as Bowling For Columbine, I just wanted to see it to have a little fun. Then, I started getting ideas...
Now, anyone familiar with the movie will know that in the flick, the four South Park kids sneak into an R-rated movie and start swearing. Not just the F-word here or there; we're talking using it like punctuation. Naturally, the parents get pissed and the next thing you know, they wage war on Canada, blaming the entire country for the actions of the two Canadian actors that made the R-rated film in the first place. Then, they spread fear and propaganda amongst the entire US and World War III kicks into high gear. That's when I started finding links between the South Park movie and Bowling For Columbine. About how American citizens tend to blame others for anything that goes wrong in their country, about how fear and propaganda is used to suck in the general populace, and about how that same group of people get lost in their own lies and truly believe that what they're doing is right... when they themselves were the ones to blame all along. That's what I was thinking about the entire time I was watching the South Park flick...
Which got me thinking even more. I mean, South Park isn't exactly the most intellectual show on the planet so were those messages even there? Was the entire movie just a facetious way of expressing the same opinions found in Bowling For Columbine? Or am I just being overly analytical again? Man, that English class has really screwed me over, huh? Now, every time someone mentions South Park, I'll start thinking of it as some huge political microcosm...
I'm overly analytical, but about pointless stupid shit and i dont care about politics at all, as long as we dont get nuked. but i can say this: southpark does enjoy throwing out countless episodes poking fun at celebrities or politicians or ideas, and being either overly sarcastic about how these things are stupid, or that they really believe that they are stupid. either way, the show IS on Comedy Central and i think that it shouldn't be taken as holding a secret political meaning so much as it can be interpreted to blow up the way the american government acts (waging war on canada for the kids cursing). they also have a handful of episodes out about saddam and osama bin laden, the jewish religion, and many other aspects of the world that are easy to step back and laugh at. but yah, i dont think you should take that movie the way you are.
hey ben it this in the polatics part of the bbs and as mal wouldsay blame canada blame canada everything has gone wrong since canada came along blame canada blame canada their not even a real country anyway and you like my new sig lol.(fuck you if you can read my spellin
I don't see anything wrong with being overly analytical, as long as you don't take it over the edge and start to piss people off. I know that would probably start to get annoying. But keep it on the average side, and you should be all right.
At 11/9/03 08:47 PM, biteme2514 wrote:
Which got me thinking even more. I mean, South Park isn't exactly the most intellectual show on the planet so were those messages even there?
Of course they were there.
It is a satire you know.
And did you know that 'bigger, longer, and uncut' stands for an uncircumsized penis?
At 11/9/03 08:47 PM, biteme2514 wrote: Then, last night, I decided to kill a few brain cells by watching South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut. After watching something as politically-minded as Bowling For Columbine, I just wanted to see it to have a little fun. Then, I started getting ideas...
Anyone who considers Bowling for Columbine Politically Minded as opposed to a comedy is the opposite of overly analytical.
You should watch more South Park episodes, and you'd notice they have funny views on a lot of taboos, like handicapped people, birth defects, racism, drugs etc.
Sure, its not the way to become a politician, but you can see that there are "messages" in each episode. Almost. Like the Simpsons.
Satire. Like someone else said. Possibly shrapnel.
p.s. you just sound long winded and not analytical. sorry.
At 11/9/03 08:47 PM, biteme2514 wrote:
People are idiots and can easily be controlled by a pre-written :mind script. Down with the average american. Stupid people need to be thinned out,
THIN THE HERD
KILL THE MORONS!!!1
At 11/9/03 09:31 PM, TrinityAndNeoDie wrote: Anyone who considers Bowling for Columbine Politically Minded as opposed to a comedy is the opposite of overly analytical.
Well, it tried to sound political anyways. While watching it, I seem to recall thinking that it was one of the most biased movies I've ever seen. The movie accomplished its purpose though. It got people thinking about the state of society. What a lot of people don't understand is that the movie is a contradiction of itself because all the things that the so-called documentary warned against are present in the movie itself. Like that whole fear and propaganda thing. Then again, I'm pretty sure Michael Moore knew exactly what he was doing when he made the film. Still, it was the themes in the movie that really got me thinking. Not the "facts" and statistics that the movie revolved around. I mean, America may have 11000 gun murders a year and some country in Europe may only have 500, but America's pretty much the size of Europe already. Anyways, I'm just ranting, so I'll just shut up now...
At 11/9/03 09:43 PM, biteme2514 wrote:At 11/9/03 09:31 PM, TrinityAndNeoDie wrote: Anyone who considers Bowling for Columbine Politically Minded as opposed to a comedy is the opposite of overly analytical.Well, it tried to sound political anyways.
Micheal Moore isn't political in the way that he actually makes signifigant to society, or has a positive impact; he's political in the way that he gets off looking like a bad ass and making other people look stupid. I, for one, can respect that, but it's like when I call him fat. I'm not doing it so he slims down and stays healthy, I'm doing it because it's pretty ironic when he tries to make the first world feel guilty about it's unbalanced excess, when he's the equivilant to two and a half of mes.
At 11/9/03 09:49 PM, TrinityAndNeoDie wrote: Micheal Moore isn't political in the way that he actually makes signifigant to society, or has a positive impact; he's political in the way that he gets off looking like a bad ass and making other people look stupid.
Good point. But yeah, you're totally right. The only problem with him is that he's a total hypocrite. He may be able to make other people look stupid but anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that the guy's doing all the same things that he criticizes the government for. Like blaming someone else and giving biased opinions that mislead his fans. In a sense, he's able to make others look stupid when stupid people watch his movies and read his books, but at the same time, the smart consumers realize that he's the only stupid one. Then again, since Michael Moore markets his stuff towards the "stupid" people anyways, some might argue that he's smart enough to know exactly what he's doing. I happen to be part of that group of people.
At 11/9/03 10:06 PM, biteme2514 wrote:
Like blaming someone else and giving biased opinions that mislead his fans.
like... when... ?
I downloaded his movie, nothing wrong with it, it was pretty funny. Maybe I should go read some of the old topics about that movie so I see exaclty where Michale Moore is bullshitting everyone and "misleading his fans to sell his videos".
Anyways, I won't get to debate on Micheal Moore because I don't know anything about him aside that he made a funny movie about stupid people who live in the US, but I'm still pretty sure Bitme doesn't know jack shit about him either and he's just repeating what other say.
Just an opinion.
you know the little cartoon in bowing for clumbine was made by mat stoen an trey paker right?
guys who made bowing for clumbine?
your not overly anliticl your jsut overstaing the obvious like its a screet
ever mistake a spoon for a straw and try and sip it ?
At 11/9/03 10:12 PM, MagicalMusicalPox wrote: Anyways, I won't get to debate on Micheal Moore because I don't know anything about him aside that he made a funny movie about stupid people who live in the US, but I'm still pretty sure Bitme doesn't know jack shit about him either and he's just repeating what other say.
Actually, it's my own opinion. Most of it came from research I had to do on some paper I have to write about paranoia and fear in the media. But yeah, about how Michael Moore's a bit of a hypocrite, just take a look at that Bowling For Columbine movie one more time. There's this one part where some 6-year old kid shoots a little girl in the face with a gun he picked up at his uncle's place. Instead of blaming the uncle for being irresponsible enough to just leave a deadly weapon lying around, he implies that the government is at fault because of the "Welfare To Work" program that keeps the 6-year old's mother away from home all the time. Which is ironic because he also criticizes the government for not giving the general populace the full picture when giving them "information". Like that scene with Bush giving his speech and Michael Moore going on about how society's now craving information so much from the media that they never question it or ask for a deeper explanation. Moore constantly implies that the government is at fault for everything and that is simply not true. In the same way that he says the government is casting blame on those that are innocent or at the very least, less responsible, he is casting blame on the government for doing the exact same things that he does in his documentary. Now, to read that huge-ass paragraph over again and hope I made my point clear...
At 11/9/03 10:32 PM, biteme2514 wrote:
The problem I find with people criticising Moore ( and I just read all the bowling for Columbine topics) is that they try and find where Michael Moore "mislead" them ( and he doesn't even do it!!! he just presents the movie like a commericial, aimed at making you buuy his product, he doesn't lie in it, like they all pretend he does) instead of trying to fins where he raised real issues and how they commute with violence and fear in america. I mean, who gives a shit if he didn't report the entirety of Heston's speach? You can clearly see the man loves his guns A LOT.
Instead of blaming the uncle for being irresponsible enough to just leave a deadly weapon lying around, he implies that the government is at fault because of the "Welfare To Work" program that keeps the 6-year old's mother away from home all the time.
Well, did you ever stop to wonder if the program was actually any good? I mean, what I got from that, is that this IS a pretty fucking retarded program. Jeez, drive 50 miles to go to work? For like almost minimum wage? How's that helping anyone? they'd be better off welfare.
I won't say that the guy wasn't an irresponsible fuck, I'm saying the woman didn't have a choice but to leave her kid in the hands of said fuck. That's what the movie shows you.
society's now craving information so much from the media that they never question it or ask for a deeper explanation.
Wow there, he never says "craving for information". Ever. He says that the people are too dumb to wonder if what they are told by their governement is true, and that they'll believe anything just because the president said so. Which I am not saying is true at all, its just what Moore said.
Basically, he blames the media for handing out crapformation instead of information, and keeping everyon in fear of random things that will never happen, so they agree with every decision that there president makes. Which I think is pretty true to some point. Everybody ( who doesn't live in the U.S.) KNOWS that CNN and FOX news are shitty and biaised.
Moore constantly implies that the government is at fault for everything and that is simply not true.
He SO doesn't at all. He's just saying that the media misinforms people and that the government does whatever the fuck it wants, wether it be good or bad.
Now, can anyone DENY the fact that Clinton made that speech about how incredibely tragic columbine was, while he seemingly didn't give a shit that very same morning when his forces bombed the shit out of some hospital?
I'd say that in fact, only maybe 20-30% of that movie is biaised/arranged, and that the rest is pretty much all true, and that is should make americains ( moslty) ask themselves questions. The people who discredit Michael Moore think that by proving him wrong once or twice, they prove him wrong forever.
But yeah, he IS an hypocrite. So what? Does that make him wrong? If I say "canadians are way too rich, we should give out money" but I actually don't give a penny, that doesn't make me wrong, just a hypocrite.
CNN is biased but they at least try to stay objective. Objective reporting is pretty hard. Just about everyone I've heard complain about CNN not being objective, is insanely biased, so it's a bit "please pee on me". The thing I like about CNN is that their reporters typically have college educations, that's something fox might want to try. There's a pretty big diffrence between CNN's action news Kyrons, and Fox's Jet blowing up Iraq under the headline "America United".
At 11/9/03 10:47 PM, MagicalMusicalPox wrote: But yeah, he IS an hypocrite. So what? Does that make him wrong? If I say "canadians are way too rich, we should give out money" but I actually don't give a penny, that doesn't make me wrong, just a hypocrite.
Well, usually when someone's a hypocrite, it means they don't necessarily believe in their own ideas and are only expressing their so-called opinions in order to make themselves look better, but aside from that, you bring up some very interesting points in your arguments. I guess all it really boils down to is the fact that Bowling For Columbine is just a movie and is no different than any other form of media. Thanks for your insight though. It's greatly appreciated, especially since I still have to write that damn paper...
All I'm saying is that Michael Moore isn't all that far from the media that he claims is selling biased information to his consumers...
Southpark is very political. Pay attention and I'd say in at least 75% of episodes there are strong political belifs being portrayed, and only the earliest ones have no politics in them whatsoever. The movie is a great example of this, and anyone who says Southpark is immature toilet-humour needs to pay more attention.