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At 8/16/08 08:02 PM, Haggard wrote:

At 8/16/08 07:52 PM, yoshi77777 wrote: Oh well, I think the system and the mods both need a revamp.

That's funny. A few weeks ago, many people ranked up their whistle levels (the LUL was full of "I got a new whistle"-posts). Back then, nobody demanded a revamp of the system or the mods...

I was actually one that got a Deity several weeks ago and said pretty much exactly what you just did in the LUL. I pretty much said nobody is saying anything about a glitch now are they? I still think that it could of just been a movie that was under admin review and was cleared, which was simple timed badly with these reviews.

At 8/16/08 08:54 PM, Solraczeravla wrote:

At 8/16/08 08:51 PM, Sir-Nuts wrote: Hey, stop going with the flow, dudes.

We only want an explanation, over 20 whistles went down to normal and garbage in 10 minutes T__T

And I'm one of the ones that got a garbage whistle.

Well, insomnia sucks.

CuteAndFuzzy: A link to an outside site used to be punished by the almighty power of Zeus himself before the redesign, now it just shows up as the only review guideline on the pop-up when you start reviewing a submission. It was 24 of those, straight.

At 8/16/08 08:37 PM, Solraczeravla wrote: Now we're reaching the point were a mod should come and actually try to answer our questions, but why don't they do that?

Don't know, I'm pretty sure it's because review mods don't post in this forum often.

Wow, ok. So I skimmed the last few pages of the abusive review thread. Serious business indeed.

Moving on to this thread:

At 8/16/08 07:17 PM, Solraczeravla wrote: After some time, we notice that the review wasn't deleted, what's worst, we lost whistle points for flagging it.

I don't see how that's possible to know for sure. Although I will compromise by saying this seems to be a more common problem for users lately.

So we need to solve this problem, the controversy is getting greater and greater, since flagging an abusive review actually destroys your whistle, we have a modding problem, and it must be fixed as soon as possible.

If there is a problem with a mod or a group of mods, why post it here? Why not contact Wade about it? In fact that's exactly what I'd suggest. If it's a case of bad modding, you don't complain on the BBS--you contact an admin (and if it's a legitimate concern and not whiny complaining, then he may get back to you).

I assume the reason why you shouldn't flag it is because those reviews are not legit, and are cheat reviews. The main goal of that spam account would be achieved if anyone got whistle points. In order to discourage this, you are rewarded negative whistle points instead.

Don't consider it rule, just keep it in mind.

That incident (which happened a while ago) was indeed a mistake by a mod. The flags shouldn't have been cleared on those reviews. Thus, you shouldn't be "punished" anymore (rather, the reviews just won't be deleted before the account is, or the flags will be cleared without any penalty and THEN they'll be deleted--at least that's how I see it).

So this thread was created to fight this problem, everyone is invited to contact someone important (honestly I don't think Tom or Wade would attend you, but it can happen) and report him what's going on.

How is this fighting the problem? All you're doing is complaining about the review mods in a place where you won't get much more than speculation and complaints from users who went down a whistle level.

At 8/16/08 07:30 PM, C-Hawk wrote: 3) All 24 reviews are deleted.
4) Everyone who flagged those 24 reviews are punished with negative whistle points

if the reviews are deleted, how are you tying the two incidents together? Or are you thinking the flags were cleared and THEN the reviews were deleted, which seems completely asinine of an idea for anyone to do. Seems to me that these are two separate incidents.

If it is some kind of "rouge mod" clearing the flags, there's no way for any user or mod to know who it is and/or what their specific actions are. Even if it's some kind of "glitch", there's no way any mod or user could give evidence of this or explain it properly.

Since you're so concerned, why hasn't an administrator been contacted? I saw someone posting a link to the staff page here, but did anyone take action? I don't think this is a problem with the review mod team, since there really haven't been any more new review mods lately. If an account was compromised, the "hacker" would do a lot more than clear your flags.

At 8/16/08 10:15 PM, absent wrote: Wow, ok. So I skimmed the last few pages of the abusive review thread. Serious business indeed.

The reason why we didn't do anything was because we were waiting for some help, we weren't sure about who we should have contacted, and this thread was made mainly to find a solution, which by the way turned into even more discussing.

So, we (at least I) trust in that you haven't done anything wrong, but we really need to find out the reason of this problem (or who made it).

At 8/16/08 10:21 PM, Solraczeravla wrote: So, we (at least I) trust in that you haven't done anything wrong, but we really need to find out the reason of this problem (or who made it).

He's the first mod to actually try and help out with this situation, I doubt he has done ANYTHING wrong.

This place is empty!

At 8/16/08 10:15 PM, absent wrote:

At 8/16/08 07:30 PM, C-Hawk wrote: 3) All 24 reviews are deleted.
4) Everyone who flagged those 24 reviews are punished with negative whistle points

if the reviews are deleted, how are you tying the two incidents together? Or are you thinking the flags were cleared and THEN the reviews were deleted, which seems completely asinine of an idea for anyone to do. Seems to me that these are two separate incidents.

Well, like i've been trying to argue with the few level-headed people in this situation, it's just too big of a coincidence. People that flagged those 24 got levelled down, and people that didn't flag the 24 just haven't been coming forward. I just barely missed those 24 and as such still have my deity. It's just one of those coincidences that stab you in the stomach.

At 8/16/08 10:21 PM, Solraczeravla wrote: The reason why we didn't do anything was because we were waiting for some help, we weren't sure about who we should have contacted, and this thread was made mainly to find a solution, which by the way turned into even more discussing.

Ok, that's fine. I would suggest that Wade be contacted about this.

I wouldn't go so far to contact liljim, because he might laugh you off if you say there's some kind of glitch. However, if you feel there is a problem with deleted reviews awarding negative points, then maybe you should swing him a PM anyway just to ease your concerns.

So, we (at least I) trust in that you haven't done anything wrong, but we really need to find out the reason of this problem (or who made it).

Like I said, there's no way of knowing what problem exists--if a problem even does exist beyond the scope of the users--and what may have caused it. The review mods don't have any more "information" than you. Contact an admin; this thread won't solve anything.

We were hoping someone above sheep-level would contact Wade, since he hasn't been getting back to us recently, not even about stolen flash that's gone through the portal. Yes, i do realize he went on vacation, and there was the mod meat, but the events i'm mentioning are from before that. If it's someone above sheep saying "whistle points are disappearing misteriously" he might be less inclined to think "hah another stat whore".

At 8/16/08 10:34 PM, C-Hawk wrote: We were hoping someone above sheep-level would contact Wade,

try this review mod, s/he reads like they might give shit, right?
read this too i guess
make sure you watch this
dont go herereview mod with a normal whistle hmm
she is not only an apparition ( figment of our imagination ) she is half kitty and explains it best
FEELING LIKE A GAMBLER try this review mod

I have mellowed out after reading absents words, and realized how much time and keylife i have wasted. oh well, it is not like people actually "care" what others think nowadays. just what they can get for themselves.
have luck and good fun i love you all gingerbread and peppermint

At 8/16/08 11:45 PM, AdairTishler wrote: If you're troubled about this situation, then send Wade a PM explaining the situation and requesting an investigation. He will ignore your complaints if only a few users send him PM's, but if 20 or 30 users send him one, then he is much more likely to do something.

Yes, that's the best we can do, it looks like the problem has been solved by now, let's just hope it keeps like that, if you ever notice that you flagged a completely abusive review and it wasn't deleted, be sure to stop flagging, maybe the bad mod (or "glitch", as you call it) returned, be safe, and thanks for all the support, keep posting abusive reviews at Rage's thread, and flag using your common sense, you should know that already, it's just a reminder ;)

Anyway, if you spot anything wrong, be sure to let us know (of course, it must be completely abusive, don't just post here because of you flagged something that wasn't and just want to rant on it), we'll contact an admin if problems continue.

Here's the link to contact Wade, in case you find something wrong.

And even once again: Be sure about you flagged something ACTUALLY ABUSIVE and LOST POINTS FOR IT, if you did (ONLY if you did), then warn an admin.

Be warned.

And i'm out =)

Oh, and by the way, here are some useful links you can provide to Wade so he can check the problem faster:

The page where the issue started.

The official discussion thread for the whistle system issue.

Rage's thread.

SOME INFO YOU SHOULD EXPLAIN:

- Over 20 whistles were downgraded from silver to garbage.
- An abusive review advertising an outside site was flagged, Tigerkitty simply said "that it didn't have enough flags".
- Until Absent arrived, the problems didn't stop.
- There was a serious problem, where 24 reviews (advertising an outside site) were flagged, they were cleared, but negative points were given to all those who flagged them.

+ Be sure to ask for a mods checkout.
+ Ask for maintenance to the abusive reviews' flagging system, just in case.

* Use discretion, be kind, avoid profane language.

I hope this helps you encourage yourself to send a PM to Wade, so what are you waiting for?

Contact Wade Fulp now!

I really don't know what some of you are complaining about now. I wasn't on yesterday so not sure what went on in the abuse thread. I however was on friday for clock day and handled alot of stuff.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/search/aut hor/kidray76
Hell, check out my last few posts in the abuse thread and you'll see people been getting points, AND for some reviews, not losing any at all.

I just think you guys are flagging wrong flashes, and reviews. I'm noticing a cycle of this. Time period, "OMFG guys, I'm silver, the system is fucking awesome, you guys are fucking awesome." Few weeks later, "damn guys, I"m garbage, what are modz doing?"

At 8/17/08 01:54 AM, kidray76 wrote: I really don't know what some of you are complaining about now. I wasn't on yesterday so not sure what went on in the abuse thread. I however was on Friday for clock day and handled alot of stuff.

Actually, we're all conscious about the reviews were 100% abusive, and most of the issues happened today, and it can't be a coincidence that over 20 guys lost their whistles in 10 damn minutes O_O

And i saw you on Clock Day, too, but the problems later that day, I'm not sure about when exactly, but it happened, and you can ask a lot of guys here (and on Rage's thread), they'll tell you what happened.

There are some guys here that flagged wrong reviews some time ago and are just ranting here, though -_-'

Who all Pm an admin about this?

At 8/17/08 02:07 AM, AdairTishler wrote: isn't that cyclical aspect more consistent with some kind of issue or bug periodically rearing its ugly head though? It's unusual to see such a wave of complaints in such a short period of time. Conceivably, a bunch of users could be using this opportunity releasing pent up frustration over losing points from their own poor flagging habits, but in general, I think it's imprudent to dismiss a sudden and wave of complaints over a specific incident like this

As I've said before, there are some users that get in here, claiming that they were victim of this issue, though, they screwed up themselves.

Still, most of us were ACTUALLY there and you can check it yourself going back a few pages on

Rage's thread (again).

The problem happened, that's a fact, so to the jerks that got in here just to get rid of their problems: Better go and flag more reviews, stop ranting here.

TO GHYFTY:

I just posted above a link to contact Wade, if you can't find it (it's possible O_O), then just click here.

At 8/17/08 02:15 AM, Solraczeravla wrote: TO GHYFTY:

I just posted above a link to contact Wade, if you can't find it (it's possible O_O), then just click here.

Yeah I been seen it. I Pmed him too. I just asked who all Pm Wade about this? Because I don't want Wade get all pissed because a lot of us are Pming him about this.

At 8/17/08 02:22 AM, ghyfty wrote: Yeah I been seen it. I Pmed him too. I just asked who all Pm Wade about this? Because I don't want Wade get all pissed because a lot of us are Pming him about this.

The problem is that he would ignore only 1 user, the more users warn him, the more attention it gives to this problem, so there's no problem with being a lot of annoying guys =D

At least i hope so u_u

This actually happened to me about a week ago.

I flagged about 20 reviews that were saying a submission was stolen, and when I got on the next day my whistle level had dropped from gold to silver. It's pretty much caused me to stop flagging stuff. At least as frequently as I had been.

At 8/17/08 02:36 AM, Purpin wrote: This actually happened to me about a week ago.

I flagged about 20 reviews that were saying a submission was stolen, and when I got on the next day my whistle level had dropped from gold to silver. It's pretty much caused me to stop flagging stuff. At least as frequently as I had been.

Yeah, it really makes you wonder if you should flag stuff or not; and it's a real shame, but whatever, mods are humans (that makes the idea of the Bots better =D), and humans make mistakes.

I think that most of us have seen at least once get their 6-months shiny whistle get down in one day, it hurts T_T

"Actually never mind just f*ck it..."

What page was that i did not catch that ,i got caught up with Clockday. I dont know if its a glitch, i do feel sorry for the users. i flag alot despite having a diety whisle ,i dont care about that i want to help the site. The rules are confusing . Mods have different opions which makes ,it confusing .like not flagging alts or spam submisson. Anyone remember the post by Bob about punishing, people who flagged spam submissons. Sorry my point is that mods have different views, i agree abou a new faqs would help. I really hope its not a glitch.

There once was a time when everything that people flagged was handled by Wade (at least, I am told that, I was not around..) and there didn't seem to be any problems whatsoever. I don't see why this cannot be done now, as, unfortunately, mods can be unreliable. But I suppose Wade is just too busy..

..playing Gears of War.

Ok guys, take this from someone who went from Bronze/Silver to DEEP DEEP Garbage twice before moving up to Diety: THERE IS NO GLITCH IN THE WHISTLE SYSTEM!!!

A lot of the confusion is that 24 reviews were deleted and people still got penalized heavily. Here's what I think happened (this is assuming that a cleared submission or something else didn't cause this):

1. You guys flag all 24 reviews.
2. A review mod sees them.
3. BY ACCIDENT they clear them meaning you guys receive 24 reviews worth of negative points which is a MASSIVE HIT to take.
4. Realizing their mistake, the review mod THEN deletes them, meaning that even though they were correctly flagged by you the damage had already been done.

Seriously, there is no glitch, computers rarely make mistakes. However, humans tend to do so a lot more. All of you calling for the heads of the review mods should be ashamed. They are doing an AMAZING job of keeping Newgrounds abuse-free as much as possible IN THEIR OWN FREE TIME for FREE. Sure they make mistakes on occasion, but is there one among you who has not?

Speaking of which, take a look at yourselves, and ask yourself: why am I flagging abuse? Is it for a shiny whistle in my profile, or is to help improve Newgrounds? For me it was the second, which is why I DID NOT give up just because I dropped to Garbage. I even went to the trouble of making 2 flashes about the whistle system to educate others as best I could.

Bitching to admins will get you NOWHERE. They won't reset anyone's whistle, because then everyone who has Garbage would say "That's not fair!" and demand the same.

TL:DR - There is no system glitch, stop complaining, be proactive and keep working at it. I got Deity eventually, but I had to work for it, and get over disappointment when I went down, even if it sometimes wasn't my fault, although sometimes it was.

At 8/17/08 02:40 AM, Solraczeravla wrote: (that makes the idea of the Bots better =D)

Are you even considering that as possible?

Think about it for a second. How could a bot judge reviews and take accurate decisions as if it should be deleted or not? How can a bot simply by searching for words know that they are being used in an abusive manner? How will a bot handle other kinds of abusive that aren't so obvious?

There will be both abusive reviews undetected and good reviews deleted by mistake.

I have a garbage whistle, and I just whistle on the really abusive reviews when I see them.

3. BY ACCIDENT they clear them meaning you guys receive 24 reviews worth of negative points which

No one would clear 24 reviews on accident.

Granted, I can't claim to know much about what's going on with this particular incident, but to be perfectly honest with you all, this is not anything new by any stretch of the imagination. I remember when I was working on this stuff as well that there was a similar case in which a lot of people, myself included, lost a lot of points. In my case, I went from Gold to Garbage in about 2 or 3 days, which was somewhat annoying to say the very least. However, I simply flagged reviews that deserved it, and managed to get back within a relatively short period of time.

In short, this isn't the first time this has happened, and it won't be the last. Those of you who have the maturity to realise this fact would be advised to accept it and move on. Anyone who cannot would do well to remember that whistle points are, at the end of the day, pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.