Doesent it bother anyone-

[SUMOKAT]

that theres not enough independant thought in the whitehouse? that if your not a democrat or a republican you cant be president? there are people that lay it down better than both of the major parties and they never picked a side! obama? mccain? FUCK THAT. wheres the little peoples chance to run things?? why is whats supposed to be the BEST country on earth run by a bunch of greedy, suit & tie wearing, currupt, lie telling douchebags? im tired of mccains old tired traditional views, and im tired of seeing omama's stupid face on tv and every magazine with his hollow promises of 'change' and 'hope'.
Anything to get votes right? Seriously what the fucks happening??? america NEEDS better leadership.

[Bryan]

Not really

[freddorfman]

it sure as fuck bothers me

[GODblamIT]

It disturbs me immensely.

[MultiCanimefan]

Power to the people would be disastrous. Everyone thinks they have the "best" way to handle situations and the greatest Trump Card to play in any event. Suggestions to the government largely go unnoticed and ignored by the big-wigs, voices that actually have something meaningful to say are not heard, and the government only commits to what's in your best interest when it's in their's as well.

[Zetsubo]

Well the thing is people like stability and the partys represent that in a way. Also with a 3rd party it is usually lacking the funds that the larger republican and democratic parties get. They will always be at the disadvantage, but one did make it far a while back so who knows?

[SUMOKAT]

At 8/11/08 03:49 PM, 61 wrote: Not really

then just sit and twadle your thumbs while we lose our rights, AND our dignity. america was a kick ass country! now the world thinks we are stupid,red-neck fucktards who are obese and love to blow shit up for no reason. pa-fucking-thetic i say. what happened to honerable, good men who worked for more than just power or more wealth??

[Jackrabbit-slims]

At 8/11/08 10:45 PM, SUMOKAT wrote: what happened to honerable, good men who worked for more than just power or more wealth??

Haha, oh they are... well... fuck. yea, thats depressing.

OP is right obama/mccain it doesnt really matter we just have to vote for the one who will fuck up our country LESS than the other

[Blackhawkdown]

What really bothers me are kids who bitch about the political process with know real understanding of how it works, who also then go on to make claims about said political process without any sort of evidence backing up those claims. That's what really bothers me.

[TonyTostieno]

At 8/11/08 03:52 PM, freddorfman wrote: it sure as fuck bothers me

This coming from an open communist? I smell hypocrisy.

Anyways...

[TonyTostieno]

At 8/11/08 10:45 PM, SUMOKAT wrote: then just sit and twadle your thumbs while we lose our rights, AND our dignity. america was a kick ass country! now the world thinks we are stupid,red-neck fucktards who are obese and love to blow shit up for no reason. pa-fucking-thetic i say. what happened to honerable, good men who worked for more than just power or more wealth??

About that, can I be an honorable good man who works to make himself and those he cares about happy and blow shit up as long as it endangers no one but myself and those who want to be involved in the blowing up of shit?

And yes, it does bother me, I want to see a third party in the white house, but not like the Nazi party or the Vampire (lulz) party, hopefully it would bring some originality to the table if nothing else.

[TonyTostieno]

At 8/12/08 12:13 AM, Blackhawkdown wrote: What really bothers me are kids who bitch about the political process with know real understanding of how it works, who also then go on to make claims about said political process without any sort of evidence backing up those claims. That's what really bothers me.

Due to the electoral college, their vote counts as much as water to a drowning dude.

[Blackhawkdown]

At 8/12/08 12:25 AM, TonyTostieno wrote:

At 8/12/08 12:13 AM, Blackhawkdown wrote: What really bothers me are kids who bitch about the political process with know real understanding of how it works, who also then go on to make claims about said political process without any sort of evidence backing up those claims. That's what really bothers me.

Due to the electoral college, their vote counts as much as water to a drowning dude.

Which I've always taken solace in. Though I'd much prefer a proportional based Electoral College system. And while that does mean that aforementioned persons votes would actually matter, I still find comfort in the fact that the above mentioned persons also tend not to vote.

[TonyTostieno]

At 8/12/08 12:30 AM, Blackhawkdown wrote: Which I've always taken solace in. Though I'd much prefer a proportional based Electoral College system. And while that does mean that aforementioned persons votes would actually matter, I still find comfort in the fact that the above mentioned persons also tend not to vote.

Also true, I'm still not sure whether I support the electoral college or not...

[ILovezoms]

this also depends on who the press focus on and in what way
if the press said the err rapid eye movement party and said "there awesome and shizzle" then peeps would vote for em

[morefngdbs]

Why does it bother you ?
The people in control of America, will still be in control no matter who wins.
The President, like almost all leaders of the worl todayis just a figure head.
The real power resdies in those who have the ability to control the MONEY !

Always remember the "Golden Rule" -those who control the gold, make the rules .

[BioHazzard]

I personally wanted Ron Paul. His political views matched up to mine the best out of the lot. Since he's out, I really don't want to vote for either McCain, or Obama; but Obama is probably going to win my vote since this country needs change. Although, I can almost see the future where none of his "promises" come true, as is the same with the general majority of other presidents who "promise us everything". I can only hope for the best though, 'cuz god forbid, this country needs it.

[Shaggytheclown17]

Well we all know the only possible way to do any of those things.
Have a big grp of people swear to help America, get all of them into the whitehouse,senate, all those things, lie their way past the corrupt people saying they will help the corrupt and deny the people, once there obliterate the corruption from within.

Either that or overthrow the government by force, deconstruct the entire government ans rebuild it from scratch, not suggesting it at all, just saying.

[adrshepard]

At 8/11/08 03:32 PM, SUMOKAT wrote: that theres not enough independant thought in the whitehouse? that if your not a democrat or a republican you cant be president? there are people that lay it down better than both of the major parties and they never picked a side! obama? mccain? FUCK THAT. wheres the little peoples chance to run things?? why is whats supposed to be the BEST country on earth run by a bunch of greedy, suit & tie wearing, currupt, lie telling douchebags? im tired of mccains old tired traditional views, and im tired of seeing omama's stupid face on tv and every magazine with his hollow promises of 'change' and 'hope'.

Everyone feels this way to some degree. Representative republics, especially those with few parties, will always alienate some proportion of their constituency. It's part of the cost of putting rational men in office rather than having mob rule or thousands of different parties that could never band together enough to accomplish anything.
One thing you should ask yourself whenever you start questioning such a fundamental system like politics is why things are the way they are. You would think that a completely honest, straight-talking, ethically superior politician would have a huge political advantage because people would like him. It's hard to think of any examples in history, though, and I would imagine it's because one HAS to be a wheeler and dealer, backroom dealmaker, deceptive if not totally dishonest, opportunistic son of a bitch to even get the slightest degree of power. This is, I think, unavoidable in a system where no one man can acheive much of anything on his own, and where citizens spend most of their time tending to their own concerns rather than becoming full time public spectators.

It all comes down to ends justifying the means. If a politician thinks that he will use his authority to better the nation moreso than his competitor, it may be necessary to use intellectually dishonest campaigning and rhetoric. These methods work. Again, if a politician wants to pass a bill that he thinks is beneficial, but is forced to support someone else's bill in kind, he will do so if he believes there is a net gain for the country.

It's a depressing situation that is absolutely unalterable, and it's why some people pay no attention to poltics whatsoever.

[749-Pi]

Independent candidates can run for president, if you're saying they can't. Look at Ralph Nader.

I think it sucks that American society and media puts up these massive boundaries and separates people by Democrat or Republican, when not only are most people's views on different levels than their classification (Republicans who support abortion, war-loving democrats), but there's so many third-party groups and lobbies that are just flat out ignored. You never hear anything about Libertarians in the media. All you hear about Ralph Nader is shit. Every major news channel enforces the Democrat-Republican stereotype.

And to go even further, I'm planning on becoming a Congressional Page in my junior year of high school. Pages are people nominated by district congressmen who are basically messengers for the White House. They work in the Capitol, and it's a pretty sweet deal for a kid who loves politics. Even the pages are separated into Democrat and Republican, by the party of the congressmen who nominates them, and the kids don't even get a choice. What party you are depends on what buildings you work in. I mean, these kids can't even vote yet, and they're already stereotyped. Where are the third-party pages?

Not that it makes a difference how you're classified while shuffling pages across DC, but it's just another example of the Party Politics that are clouding up any ability for anyone else to get a say.

[drDAK]

It's partisan, and I think Jon Stewart summed it up best when he nailed those assholes on crossfire: It's not that your show sucks, so much as its tearing America apart.

[AznWarlord]

It's been like that since George Washington left office really. My Summer Assignment for Ap History, we read a book all about it. The Bipartisanship isn't the problem, it's the way it works. Ever since Jefferson came up with the idea that One party would have to oppose the party in power no matter what - to balance it up - it's been like this way. One sides vote for what they think is right (now being the Republicans) and the other side just stupidly votes against, when neither side is listening to each other and actually figuring out the problems and solving them. Especially now that Congress is almost equal on Democrats and Republicans, by a little percentage, we can't get the 66% of votes we need to do ANYTHING. Which is why nothing's happening in Congress, and more people hate the Senate than Bush.

Also, the reason why independents don't win much are because they just aren' popular with a lot of people. Libertarians for example, only care about the Majority while neglecting the Minority completely. Which is pretty funny since the Democrats are being very Libertarian about many things - of course, the side that doesn't have the President will always act like this cause they think their side is always right, Democrat and Republican alike.

And finally, I don't think Nader should run anymore, I mean he's practically another Liberal running under the name Green Party, taking a lot of votes from the Democrats while not doing anything about the Republicans. He should know by now that he's never gonna make a difference. He's never gonna influence anything. Inow mean I'm in no way a Democrat, I'm a more Moderate Republican, and I would prefer a President McCain. (I strongly believe that if Obama's not gonna changes, he'll cause a great deal of Unemployment, even if he creates jobs).

But listening to Paris Hilton's counter ad makes me want to vote for her. I mean, she state's how she's gonna combine BOTH economic plans, which is the way things should be. We can have Offshore drilling AND invest in alternative Energy, but McCain and Obama are too stupid to realize it.

[Gunter45]

AznWarlord brings up a lot of good and accurate points as to why we developed into this system, however, I believe the real discussion should revolve around why we're continuing it today.

The big issue is that people feel that a vote for a 3rd party candidate is a "wasted vote." It's the whole idea that, if your candidate doesn't win, your vote doesn't matter. I can't stand the fact that Americans put enormous emphasis into who wins and loses that we don't understand what the hell voting is for. The INTENTION is to vote for who you like the best, not which of the two candidates that are most likely to win matches up vaguely to your beliefs.

Now, granted, if the Republican or Democrat platform appeals to you, by all means, vote on party lines; however, as AznWarlord was good to mention, they have developed to be such opposites of each other, that the American people generally align themselves as somewhere in between. It is an utter shame that nobody does the research to look for candidates or third parties that support their views better than the two established parties.

While the situation may have evolved from a polarized nation, it has continued because this country and its populace has evolved into a more apathetic nation, and it's fucking sickening.

[JackPhantasm]

You shouldn't need a party at all to hold an office, you should have your own platform that is unique to you.

But then, you know, people would actually have to think before they voted.

Can't have that now can we.

[Blackhawkdown]

At 8/12/08 10:19 PM, Gunter45 wrote: AznWarlord brings up a lot of good and accurate points as to why we developed into this system, however, I believe the real discussion should revolve around why we're continuing it today.

The big issue is that people feel that a vote for a 3rd party candidate is a "wasted vote." It's the whole idea that, if your candidate doesn't win, your vote doesn't matter. I can't stand the fact that Americans put enormous emphasis into who wins and loses that we don't understand what the hell voting is for. The INTENTION is to vote for who you like the best, not which of the two candidates that are most likely to win matches up vaguely to your beliefs.

Now, granted, if the Republican or Democrat platform appeals to you, by all means, vote on party lines; however, as AznWarlord was good to mention, they have developed to be such opposites of each other, that the American people generally align themselves as somewhere in between. It is an utter shame that nobody does the research to look for candidates or third parties that support their views better than the two established parties.

While the situation may have evolved from a polarized nation, it has continued because this country and its populace has evolved into a more apathetic nation, and it's fucking sickening.

Funny thing is Americans really aren't that polarized, the media just likes to portray Americans as polarized. Most Americans are actually pretty close to the center in their political beliefs. The book microtrends talks about this a lot and has the figures to prove it. I'll borrow my friends copy tomorrow and post the actual figures.

Other then that, I think people would have more confidence in 3rd party candidates if we switched to a proportional based electoral college. Basically creates a popular vote system without all the messy constitutional amendments that would be required in abolishing the electoral college.

[hrb5711]

Now correct me if I am wrong on this but in a 3 or more party system with no electoral college and a majority electing a candidate wouldn't that mean that 34% of the population could elect a candidate? Meaning 66% of the population, a true majority didn't elect that candidate? So how can anything other than a two party system work? To have a true majority don't you need 51%?

[Blackhawkdown]

That's why you could just make a 50%+1 provision. It basically cuts it down two if one party doesn't win a clear majority. Works something like that anyway.

[Phobotech]

I never liked election time, because one candidate will always be too far left, and the other too far right.

We need the comfortable median...but someone who KNOWS what he's doing.

We need a third, mainstream party.

[ILovezoms]

At 8/12/08 02:57 PM, morefngdbs wrote: Why does it bother you ?
The people in control of America, will still be in control no matter who wins.
The President, like almost all leaders of the worl todayis just a figure head.
The real power resdies in those who have the ability to control the MONEY !

Always remember the "Golden Rule" -those who control the gold, make the rules .

nah remeber Ceaser the golden rule is "give them circus and bread"

[aranS]

At 8/11/08 03:32 PM, SUMOKAT wrote: that theres not enough independant thought in the whitehouse? that if your not a democrat or a republican you cant be president? there are people that lay it down better than both of the major parties and they never picked a side! obama? mccain? FUCK THAT. wheres the little peoples chance to run things?? why is whats supposed to be the BEST country on earth run by a bunch of greedy, suit & tie wearing, currupt, lie telling douchebags? im tired of mccains old tired traditional views, and im tired of seeing omama's stupid face on tv and every magazine with his hollow promises of 'change' and 'hope'.
Anything to get votes right? Seriously what the fucks happening??? america NEEDS better leadership.

I agree, and you know George Washington warned everyone that this would happen if there were political parties. First president predicted the problems of today