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This is why America should be 1/3 communism, 1/3 liberal, and 1/3 democracy.

Communism = Red

Liberal = White

Democracy = Blue

loopty-lawl

At 8/11/08 08:46 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: This is why America should be 1/3 communism, 1/3 liberal, and 1/3 democracy.

Communism = Red

Liberal = White

Democracy = Blue

loopty-lawl

You win. :D

At 8/11/08 08:46 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: This is why America should be 1/3 communism, 1/3 liberal, and 1/3 democracy.

Communism = Red

Liberal = White

Democracy = Blue

loopty-lawl

May god you've figured it all out. It makes perfect sense.

Well do to human nature communism is only good on paper

Maybe someone can answer my question.

I've heard that communism looks good on paper but I don't see why.

I've read the Manifesto, Poverty of Philosophy, Hegel's Philosophy of Right and Capitalism's World Disorder but it's all crap to me.

Can someone share me their views of how communism looks good without contradicting the US constitution, natural behavior, or sound economic theories?

At 8/11/08 09:59 PM, n64kid wrote: Maybe someone can answer my question.

I've heard that communism looks good on paper but I don't see why.

I've read the Manifesto, Poverty of Philosophy, Hegel's Philosophy of Right and Capitalism's World Disorder but it's all crap to me.

Can someone share me their views of how communism looks good without contradicting the US constitution, natural behavior, or sound economic theories?

first off, you're very well-read, secondly, i don'y claim to be an expert, but i think that by saying communism looks good on paper just means that if you look at or think about the idea "all men are equal" it's a great idea and philosophy in the broad sence, thus it sounds, looks, whatever good. When you apply it in every sense of the word equal, as in no one is different from anyone, which is the practise of communism, then the at first great and "good looking" idea becomes much more complicated and... unenjoyable

Communism is a good idea, but it cant work.
No country has even been a real communist countryu.

Ok, a doctor would make the same ammount as a streak cleaner.

Someone who does a great job would make the same as a person that does a lousy job.

You get no reward for your efforts.

The moral of the workers would go down.
Efficentcy would deplenish.

But to make it work, food, energy, everything, would have to be...super cheap.

cost of living would have to be low.

how to make this work? Resources will need to be super abundant and very easily obtainable.

One car is composed of these.
Metals-A miner gets the metals. The metals get seperated from the rock. The pure metals get melted and turned into bars. The bars are sent to a car factory which is shaped and molded.

Rubber, for the trires- Rubber trees need to be cut and changed into rubber, how ever they do it. The rubber is sent to a factory to make tires which is sent to the car factory

Plastics to make the plastic interior- Oil has to be obtained to help make plastic. that or corn oil. Then the factory has to create the plastic parts and sent to the car factory.

Glass- Glass windows are made from sand and mechanically made and sent to the car factory or made at the car factory.

Computer chips and thing for the circutry of the car- The micrchips are made and the whole system is made too, and sent to the car factory

Flooring materials- A factory makes the flooring materials and are sent to the car factory

All these are put together to make a car.

So you have (car factory workers, sub factory workers, raw material obtainers, shipment drivers.) and also (workers who build the factories and machines)

Communisim is doing things for the greater good. The people doing these things are not doing the job only because they want to make a car. That might be part but the main reason is to make a good amount of money. Take away that and only pay them a little and they will quit.

In today's world communism cant work.
People want more for doing more.
People want to be rewarded in pay for doing better.

Communism is you get payed the same wage regaurdless of how well you work.
If I worked my ass off and did a great job and I got payed very little and didnt get a raise, I would quit.

At 8/11/08 10:56 PM, HogWashSoup wrote: Communism is a good idea, but it cant work.

at this point, i really feel like it's game, set, and match. unless any one else thinks that we've left something out?

At 8/11/08 10:12 PM, fatherbuck wrote:

"all men are equal" it's a great idea and philosophy in the broad sence, thus it sounds, looks, whatever good. When you apply it in every sense of the word equal, as in no one is different from anyone, which is the practise of communism

As far as the declaration of independence goes, the opening quote I feel is relevant to this situation.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Let's break this down by clause.

"that all men are created equal"

Notice all men are CREATED equal. There is nothing saying all men should be treated equally, should work the same, should earn the same amount, should have the same entitlements, etc.

All ment are created to share the opportunity for advancement to a better life, and all people can pursue that advancement. There is nothing about all people have a right to an equal life, and with my knowledge of psychology and economics, the right to an equal life just doesn't sit right. The opportunity for advancement, which is just my interpretation of the clause, gets my respect.

Moving on

"that they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"

Ah all people are born with the right to life, liberty and to pursue utility. Broad terms. But let's focus on the pursuit of happiness. The declaration of independence, something we wrote to define what our land means to us and foreign nations, states all men have a right to strive for a better living. I like that thought. You study hard, you get a practical job, you work hard, you'll live very comfortably. Just my opinion but it seems that the only people who complain about capitalism are those who are too lazy and don't accomplish any of those 3 criteria. There is basically an anti-communism sentiment in our constitution which led us to be the worlds last remaining super power.

China sees growth because of US, same with India, same with Europe. Europe's entering a recession because of such a weak dollar no one was buying European exports for Q2. Chinese and Indian markets are down well below 22% and 30% respectively within the last year (a far larger percentage drop than American markets), which just tells me that the world revolves around our nation and our capitalism. Cut us off, and the so called socialist and communist nations suffer.

But back to my original post from several hours ago, can anyone explain why communism looks good on paper? Is it just the all people living equal? If it is I think we should let the "looks good on paper" phrase die.

Communism is where everyone is equil in living, pay, power, and everything.

People would have to care more about the whole then themselves.

This would mean the cost of living would have to be gone. Everything would have to be free and infinitly or near infinitly abundant.

It is good on paper, but thats it.

Anyone that thinks that it can work is ignorant on how the world and people work, and ignorant in the fact that every country that has became communist isnt really communist, just imitating it.

Do you know how communism actually works I looked it up but all it says are it's goals and history i want to know how it works economically

At 8/12/08 03:27 PM, 0asalimit wrote: Well, fuck you.
I prefer Nazism in all the ways.

White Supremacism is so ignorant and so is religious discrimination

At 8/11/08 10:56 PM, HogWashSoup wrote: Communism is a good idea, but it cant work.

Then it's not a good idea.

At 8/10/08 08:47 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: east germany

East Germany was not a shit hole; it was quite advanced.

At 8/12/08 03:39 PM, ChickenReaper wrote: Do you know how communism actually works I looked it up but all it says are it's goals and history i want to know how it works economically

The State confiscates all private property, and makes all the production decisions (how much is to be produced and how), and then distributes the income equally among citizens.

At 8/11/08 09:59 PM, n64kid wrote: Can someone share me their views of how communism looks good without contradicting the US constitution, natural behavior, or sound economic theories?

Because all men are to be equal, and work as much as they can, and get as much as they deserve. Poverty ceases to exist, and therefore so does marginalization.

At 8/12/08 05:25 PM, Der-Lowe wrote:

At 8/12/08 03:39 PM, ChickenReaper wrote: Do you know how communism actually works I looked it up but all it says are it's goals and history i want to know how it works economically

The State confiscates all private property, and makes all the production decisions (how much is to be produced and how), and then distributes the income equally among citizens.

To be a bit more specific the government owns all residential and commercial property and the workers/residents merely "occupy" the property. Income tax is nearly 90%, as in everything that you earn you give 90% to the government.

At 8/11/08 12:06 AM, Proteas wrote: Okay, I'll play this game.

The concept of Communism has been in existence for well over a century now. WHY has it not caught on like wildfire as democracy has?

You're mixing things; communism is not a political system.

Could it be that a truly equal society cannot exist without a centralized authority to ensure said equality and eventually leading into a socialist state, thus defeating the concept of communism entirely?

Not really. According to Communist Authors, communism requires insane levels of productivity, where one can work4 hours a day and be in a comfort middle class. The conditions for a communist state have never appeared.

At 8/11/08 01:14 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 8/11/08 12:19 AM, DrAfrothunder wrote: It DID catch on like wildfire.

Key term; did. My question phrased in the present tense; "why hasn't," not "why didn't."

The magic of present perfect.

Communism itself still exists in various forms across the world, yet it has as yet to take a firm stronghold in all but a handful of shithole third-world countries where the people are forced into it via a militaristic dictator who has no concern for the people of his country.

You can read minds now?

Whereas democracy in it's various forms has been around since Ancient Rome, and shows no sign of wavering.

Not at all, democracy as we know it is a recent phenomenon. Rome was not democratic, neither were the European empires.

The Red Scare.

So basically, you're hearkening back ot the old logic that it never caught on because we never gave it a chance, hm?

Ironic really, since america hated the czars, and practically cheered at their downfall, only to turn around and change its mind.

Irony is the fact that Kruschev claimed in 1960's that Communism was the wave of the future, and yet, here we are.

The "Communism lost, Capitalism won" idea is quite a limited one. The truth is that Capitalism had to change so much to solve the problems that Marx correctly detected (Excess production, an historical discrepancy between production and distribution, and inequality, brutal social unfairness) that the Capitalism we know today ("21st Century Capitalism", to contrast with Chavez) has little to do with that in the 19th century.
Marx foresaw a major economic collapse that would put Capitalism to an end. I think he was right, and that that crisis was the 1929 crisis. After that, the Keynesian revolution took place, it put an end to 19th Century capitalism (Keynes was right with "The end of laissez faire"), social plans were adopted, the markets were put under severe scrutiny by the government to soften the business cycle, and last and most importantly, the key dichotomy between "private appropriation of income and social ways of production" was solved with the proliferation of corporations, where businesses have millions of stocks, and profits are distributed in a much more social way.

Summing up, I believe that Communism, and the Marxist revolution were successful in ending Capitalism's reign over the world.

At 8/11/08 04:12 PM, butsbutsbutsbutsbuts wrote:

At 8/11/08 02:55 PM, catman03 wrote: Communism works well in concept but the problem is that just as capitalism relies on the (nonexistent) morality of the corporations that supply necessities, communism relies on the morality of the governing party. People corrupt rather easily, and communism and capitalism both require additional checks and balances that don't exist in any existing system of government or economy. Capitalism can degenerate into economic-recession-fueled anarchy, but communism can degenerate into a totalitarian dictatorship. Russia, for instance, had the right idea when the revolutionaries installed a communist state, but then Stalin messed it up and screwed everybody over. And then Reagan had to save the day, and Reagan was just as bad. So yeah, it works on paper, but it doesn't really turn out well. Honestly the only real system that has any chance to succeed is one in which the people are moral, and then it wouldn't matter what system it was. I know my opinion is probably not unique but that's it. Communism has too many ways it can go wrong.

What are you talking about? Reagan was awesome and so was Margaret Thatcher. Our economy underwent the transition from industrial to services under them. You only think it was bad because you don't understand the service sector or something.

Reagan crushed the air traffic controllers union and opened the door to screwing over the little man. He was also the force behind the stockpiling of nuclear weapons that resulted in the Mutually Assured Destruction phase of the cold war and the current capability of both Russia and the U.S. to end the world with a single order. Reagan was a horrible president and a bad influence on American politics.

At 8/10/08 08:01 PM, Lorkas wrote: C'mon! Everyone's equal, how bad can that be? Yeah yeah there are some minuses, but I bet it's an equal number. You know what that means? Yes, two minuses make a plus! Two hitlers make a Lenin! Two Stalins make an Obama!

Why is communism bad? Why? Because it's not lol.

I'm seriously not surprised that an Obama lover would love Communism.

Especially seeing as how most liberals are self-proclaimed socialists.

Seriously, get a clue. People like you should not be allowed to vote.

Btw, I know you were joking about loving communism. And I know you didn't realize I knew you were joking till I said this (because you're a typical liberal fool). But you weren't joking about Obama being a good thing.

Do any of you liberal buffoons realize what Obama will do to this nation if he's elected?

THANKS

At 8/13/08 09:27 PM, ChickenReaper wrote: THANKS

hmmm?

At 8/12/08 10:10 PM, catman03 wrote: Reagan crushed the air traffic controllers union and opened the door to screwing over the little man.

Meh, the air traffic industry was severely inefficient, and those steps had to be taken to clear it.

He was also the force behind the stockpiling of nuclear weapons that resulted in the Mutually Assured Destruction phase of the cold war and the current capability of both Russia and the U.S. to end the world with a single order. Reagan was a horrible president and a bad influence on American politics.

Thank you for your opinion.

At 8/12/08 10:41 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 8/12/08 10:28 PM, sharpnova wrote:
Do any of you liberal buffoons realize what Obama will do to this nation if he's elected?

he would turn America into a socialist country thats what

OH NOEZ HIS TEH COMMIE
You have no idea how rightist he is in the eyes of Latin America and Europe.

In order to make Communism work, you would have to take the basic animal insticts of greed out of humans.

Communism hasn't worked? What about China. Capitalism hasn't exactly been a crown jewel in some countries. You can't have a system that is completely capitalistic, and purely socialistic. They're like the yin-yang symbol, the two complete each other and there is a seed in each other.

How knows how Communism could have turned out as if Russia didn't have to contend with WWII and then the cold war. I saw a comment saying all communist countries are primitive and poor, but the USSR was arguablely more advanced then America in the early half of the cold war.

At 8/12/08 10:41 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 8/12/08 10:28 PM, sharpnova wrote:
Do any of you liberal buffoons realize what Obama will do to this nation if he's elected?

he would turn America into a socialist country thats what

lol you fools. I can't think of any country has no socialism (maybe Iraq or Zimbabwe). If the government provides services to the population based on need, not on status then its socialist. With no socialism society would collapse for very practical reason, not the whole "worker class will overthrow the capitalist pig dogs" communist prophecy.

At 8/10/08 11:25 PM, DrAfrothunder wrote: Communism is awesome. Anyone who says otherwise needs to rexamine their views on the world.

That being said, communism is [sadly] improbable, perhaps even impossible, as evident in the corrupt totalitarian states that have arisen in the name of communism.

agree 100%.

thats my two cents. :)

At 8/14/08 02:00 PM, bobomajo wrote: Communism hasn't worked? What about China. Capitalism hasn't exactly been a crown jewel in some countries. You can't have a system that is completely capitalistic, and purely socialistic. They're like the yin-yang symbol, the two complete each other and there is a seed in each other.

China's also into capitalism as you should know.

It seems to me that everyone who keeps talking about how they support communism is just trying to distance themselves from capitalism, which, because of the media, seems like the source of greed and all those other "bad" things.

I think the whole concept of having one single way of doing things is wrong, its all about the situation.

In the United States we are capitalist because when we started there was such and abundance we didnt need to have the government give it to us.

In China their resources were limited and only in certain areas, the government decided it was best to control the market so they didn't have a major crisis.

Plus, you cant just run an entire nation off of one idea, its has to be a balance of all ideas or at least as close to that as possible.

Lenin once said, in communism everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others.

Communism is a dictatorship with a diffrent name, its called left wing, but for god knows what reason.
If you actually talk to people that have lived under communism, they do not like it at all. Excluding china, as it is not really communism (it has private corperations and such, it is not communism)

Also please give me a list of succesful Communist countries...

live under communism this is what you get...http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm