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At 8/8/08 04:39 PM, LazyPint wrote:

At 8/8/08 04:38 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: I DISLIKE A PARTICULAR RELIGIOUS GROUP SO I'M GOING TO MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT.

/caps

Not exactly. He dislikes his mom, who is a member of a certain religious group he isn't one of. Or something like that.

I'd imagine the conversation went something like this:

"[OP], get dressed, it's time for Church."
"I'M NOT GOING TO CHURCH MOM! I'M AN ATHEIST! WHY CAN'T YOU JUST ACCEPT THAT!?!!?!? BLEGH!"
"I never said I couldn't accept it, I disagree with Atheism, yes, but I..."
"OMG YOU FUCKING BIGOT! KEEP YOUR IMAGINARY GOD OUT OF MY LIVE YOU CHRISTIAN BITCH!"
"Now, could you please not swear?"
"THERE YOU GO AGAIN! FORCING YOUR FUCKING FALSE BELIEFS DOWN MY THROAT! WHY DON'T YOU JUST FUCK OFF AND DIE?"
"I'll have none of that, I'm afraid I'll have to take your guitar away."
"OMG! WHY DID YOU DO THAT!?!?!?!? COMPLETELY UNPROVOKED!!!!!!!!"

At 8/8/08 04:45 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: "[OP], get dressed, it's time for Church."
"I'M NOT GOING TO CHURCH MOM! I'M AN ATHEIST! WHY CAN'T YOU JUST ACCEPT THAT!?!!?!? BLEGH!"

Yes, that's exactly how conversations usually occur between non-religious children and their religious parents. The child is always angsty and ranting, while the parents are peaceful and patient.

Oh wait

At 8/8/08 04:45 PM, That-Is-Bull wrote: Ah yes, I forgot the "close minded" argument, which is also ridiculous. Zerok, I'm assuming you don't believe in the singing monkey. You're close minded.

See how that works?

No, the close-mindedness was your claim: 'these are obviously ridiculous.'

However, I am open to the possibility of there being a god. Et cetera. All of these possibilities have the exact same amount of evidence, and the exact same chance of being true.

So.... you DO understand and accept the "you can't disprove it" concept? Why on earth would you say it's "obviously ridiculous"?

So why should I believe only one of them, and spend my life worshiping it?

Well no one was saying you had to. You came into this thread attacking the entire notion of religion, not trying to justify your right to choose what you believe in.

As for "to each his own," I usually agree with that. I don't care about what other people do as long as it doesn't affect anybody else. However, religion does affect many other people, and you can't honestly deny that.

No, and that's partially the point. "To each his own" is a response to your claim that it's an "obviously ridiculous" concept that life might suck without faith in something.

I am so glad I was born into an open-minded family.

If my mom bitched at me like that, I'd fucking crank up Protest the Hero's Fortress album.

"Our Goddess gave birth to your God"

At 8/8/08 04:57 PM, AapoJoki wrote: Oh wait

I see there a single occurance.

Next.

At 8/8/08 05:07 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: I see there a single occurance.

While you didn't provide even one.

Um, to all the "can't disprove it" guys...

Well, I think this sums it up better than I ever could.

At 8/8/08 04:45 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: I'd imagine the conversation went something like this:

"[OP], get dressed, it's time for Church."

etc. etc.

This is how it's done:

Mom: Redraptor! It's time for Church!

RR: "NO mom I'm an athiest, please let me be?"

Mom: Boy you be beliving in god at 7 and not now. You can't just shun out god!

RR: MOM, I'm not going!

Mom: Alrighty then! No more bla bla bla etc.

RR: OH AND BTW IM GAY AND IM GUNNA BUTTSEX [bestfriendsnamehere] BRB!!
*runs out and slams door*

Mom: ...wha?

At 8/8/08 04:38 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: I DISLIKE A PARTICULAR RELIGIOUS GROUP SO I'M GOING TO MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT.

/caps

that's not what the threads about
it's about him mum pretty much trying to bully him into being a christian

also i've just remembered that i am actually religious

i'd totally forgotten

my version of christianity is a little different though

for example God is an alien overlord - w lasers

At 8/8/08 05:11 PM, Omibagoshkinz wrote: Mom: ...wha?

Seems more likely than my one.

Good show.

At 8/8/08 05:01 PM, Zerok wrote: No, the close-mindedness was your claim: 'these are obviously ridiculous.'
No, and that's partially the point. "To each his own" is a response to your claim that it's an "obviously ridiculous" concept that life might suck without faith in something.
So.... you DO understand and accept the "you can't disprove it" concept? Why on earth would you say it's "obviously ridiculous"?

I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying these are obviously ridiculous arguments for religion/against atheism. It's ridiculous to claim you believe in and worship something just because it can't be disproved.

Well no one was saying you had to. You came into this thread attacking the entire notion of religion, not trying to justify your right to choose what you believe in.

Think about that one.

Sounds like I've got the only open-minded parents here.

At 8/8/08 05:11 PM, Andrei-Ulmeyda wrote: Um, to all the "can't disprove it" guys...

Well, I think this sums it up better than I ever could.

That only works if your argument is "it is logical to believe in X" where X is some sort of thing that cannot be disproven/proven. There's a big difference between that and "it is illogical to assume it isn't true."

At 8/8/08 05:31 PM, That-Is-Bull wrote: I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying these are obviously ridiculous arguments for religion/against atheism. It's ridiculous to claim you believe in and worship something just because it can't be disproved.

I've never met a soul who said "well God can't be disproved, so THAT'S why I believe in Him". Have you? I think you're mixing that up with "well God can't be disproved, so that's why I don't understand your steadfast denial of His existence," which is a perfectly reasonable train of thought( i.e. not "obviously ridiculous"), which is "against atheism" so to speak.

Think about that one.

Quit being smug; if you have a counterpoint come out and say it.

At 8/8/08 05:46 PM, Zerok wrote: That only works if your argument is "it is logical to believe in X" where X is some sort of thing that cannot be disproven/proven. There's a big difference between that and "it is illogical to assume it isn't true."

I'm not seeing a difference. As far as I can see, there's no evidence, so until there is, it's completely logical to believe it's not there. You say it's illogical to assume nonexistence, but what is the basis for that? Popular opinion? A strong religious upbringing? Really, I think the only reason you and others say things like that is because the concept of God has been ingrained in us since childhood.

At 8/8/08 02:33 PM, Damian wrote: If I had a mother like that I would beat the shit out of her, seriously.

Your out of your mind Your mother carried you around voor 9 mooths she changed your dipers,
Your a idioot show some respect !

At 8/8/08 03:49 PM, Inquisitor911 wrote:

At 8/8/08 03:45 PM, Achilles2 wrote: Since when are Atheists' rights being violated just because a he/she saw someone praying?

That does not violate any rights. However, situations like a mother trying to force her beliefs on her son by depriving him of priveleges and property is multitudes more "immoral" than an Atheist sharing his opinion on religion in a strong way.

Yes, I agree with you here, everyone should have the right to stick up for their beliefs and rights when persecuted. But in places on Newgrounds, where constantly see posts such as...

User #1: "Wow, Thank God no one was hurt"
User #2: "God? lol, you worship a 2008 year old zombie. There is no God you moron"

Were their rights being harassed here? Was there even a debate? But yet religion was brought up, mocked, and a complex philosophy that not even Christian monks fully understand is dismissed in 1 sentence using an oversimplified and inaccurate summary.

Atheists are often harrassed more than Christians in the USA. I have sources to prove it.

Yes, this is true. But in general, Atheists are much less prosecuted than Muslims in the USA, and remember that Islam is also a theistic religion. But the point is that Atheists on the Internet, such as on Newgrounds, mention religion when it's not necessary and mock someone's personal beliefs for no reason.

thats wierd...i mean people up here are religious, but we don't force it. actuly its the athiests we kill because they act like smartasses

At 8/8/08 06:10 PM, Golmit wrote: You're out of your mind! Your mother carried you around for 9 months, changed your diapers, and now all she wants is to mindlessly shove her beliefs down your throat in a fit of rage regardless of your own opinions and understanding.
Your a idiot show some respect!

Fix'd

At 8/8/08 06:07 PM, Andrei-Ulmeyda wrote: I'm not seeing a difference. As far as I can see, there's no evidence, so until there is, it's completely logical to believe it's not there. You say it's illogical to assume nonexistence, but what is the basis for that?

Popular opinion? A strong religious upbringing?

Uh, just two seconds of logical thinking.

You're falling into that mind trap where think that if All A are B then all B are A. Certainly if we can prove A then we can justify believing in A. If we can DISPROVE A, we can justify not believing in A. If we CANNOT DISPROVE A, then we CANNOT justify not believing in A. We also CANNOT justify believing in A in this case either, and that is where faith steps in. Faith isn't really based on hard logic. I suppose you could say you have faith in fact that A doesn't exist, but really what purpose would that faith have?

Really, I think the only reason you and others say things like that is because the concept of God has been ingrained in us since childhood.

I really hope that you shed that opinion before you get heavily involved in the real world.

At 8/8/08 06:44 PM, Zerok wrote: You're falling into that mind trap where think that if All A are B then all B are A. Certainly if we can prove A then we can justify believing in A. If we can DISPROVE A, we can justify not believing in A. If we CANNOT DISPROVE A, then we CANNOT justify not believing in A. We also CANNOT justify believing in A in this case either, and that is where faith steps in. Faith isn't really based on hard logic. I suppose you could say you have faith in fact that A doesn't exist, but really what purpose would that faith have?

So it comes down to faith. Fine. I doubt I could take this discussion any further so I'll leave it at that.

I really hope that you shed that opinion before you get heavily involved in the real world.

I stand by it. The concept of God, for most people, is introduced to them by their parents, preachers, etc. Even if they aren't, the concept is so widespread it's almost impossible to not have at least heard of it. Because so many hear it at such young age, combined with the persuasiveness of it's proponents and the very appeal of the concept, many people simply believe in it on faith. Even if they don't necessarily believe, many people don't deny the possibility (i.e. agnostics), something that I believe occurs simply due to the previously stated factors. Of course, there are others who make different conclusion, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be happening.

I'm no psychologist, but I do enjoy pondering the concept of God and how it spread.

to all those spending their afternoon constructing a huge response to disprove religion,
don't bother

when religion is involved, normal logic and the laws of physics seem to become irrelevant

it doesn't matter how much you can disprove any religion, they're not gonna change their minds.
they're just gonna counter it with another wall of text, whether it makes sense or not

but just for the moment,
if i wrote that a magical dragon created the universe.. blah blah blah..
would you believe it? no
but what makes it any less credible than the bible

Wtf is up with all these threads about religion.

At 8/8/08 07:06 PM, Andrei-Ulmeyda wrote: I stand by it.

I certainly don't deny the power of indoctrination. The part that I hope you shed is belief that people would say things I said not because of the solid backing behind it, but because they're mindlessly doing so. Certainly you will encounter such people, but that shouldn't be your first assumption.

I'm no psychologist, but I do enjoy pondering the concept of God and how it spread.

Psychology and religion are tightly bound. What other animal worships? It's a whole topic unto itself, really. Fascinating, for sure.

At 8/8/08 07:20 PM, Zerok wrote: I certainly don't deny the power of indoctrination. The part that I hope you shed is belief that people would say things I said not because of the solid backing behind it, but because they're mindlessly doing so. Certainly you will encounter such people, but that shouldn't be your first assumption.

I know that not everyone does it mindlessly, like I said, people come to their own logical conclusions, as varied as they be. Perhaps it's my fault for not making that clear.

Psychology and religion are tightly bound. What other animal worships? It's a whole topic unto itself, really. Fascinating, for sure.

It truly is, but as much as I'd like to delve into the subject further, I'm off to dinner and then to Blockbuster to rent Soul Calibur 4.

At 8/8/08 07:20 PM, Zerok wrote: Psychology and religion are tightly bound. What other animal worships?

wha.. err..

other animals can't write fictional stories

don't quite understand the point you're trying to get across

Belief is acceptable and perfectly reasonable.

Religion is retarded.

Your mother sounds like a smacktard too, is your entire family 'hardcore' Christian like this? If not, you can probably ask another member of the family to reason with her? She can't just 'make' you write a report either, you always have the choice not too. I suggest not giving in, she can't force you.

Grow a little satan goatee and tattoo a pentagram on your forehead. Your mother will die from being scared.

At 8/8/08 07:37 PM, Abomination wrote: Your mother sounds like a smacktard too, is your entire family 'hardcore' Christian like this?

She told u she was hardcore.

Jesus dislikes what your mom is doing, lol. Just go along with what she wants for now, even though it seems that by submitting to her beliefs you have no spine. There's nothing more stubborn than a fundamental Christian. It's like taking down a brick wall with a pancake.

At 8/8/08 08:06 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: I went through a wee atheist streak, my parents twigged that it was only a phase, and didn't pressure me to find the faith again.

I ended up back at what I'm best at being, a bad Catholic.

Catholicism is like the Atheism of religion. You don't really have to do anything to be part and you can still be happy in your own beliefs. Either that, or I'm going to hell.