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What if the show were on the OTHER foot? Suppose a guy gets to choose between ugly women? I betcha there would be a political backlash so stringent against men!

no i would disagree with you there seen as the networks are trying to atract the 18-21 year old market which is by definition shalow and pety and yes i am part of this age bracket also but i fortunetly dont watch that much tv to see things the same way that you do. but back to my point they want the atrctive people to get higher ratings not so much to promote feminism and the shows were the guy is fat lazy and such that is just done to apeal to everyone and portray a sterotype that the networks thinks will relate to a wider audiunce. inother words what ever will get the tv networks the most money in advertisments is what they will show.

my sugestion is if you have a compaint about a show write in to the networks and express your opinion so that they will change the shows and if enough people write in then yes the will change the shows because how the networks look at complaint male is that for ever letter writen there are as much as some were between 1,000-10,000 people who feel the same way that are to lazy to get off there asses to write a letter to the network.

so my sugestion is get off your lazy ass pull up a word prossesor and start your letter and complain and do something that you think is going to make tv better rather than griping about it here were no one realy cares to much about you.

At 11/8/03 09:55 PM, izuamoto wrote: i believe ignorance is wrong. very very wrong.

But you have no problems with hypocracy???

You are coming across as quite ignorant, just that you are ignorant on your high horse and we cant really do anything about that.

Also, I like the way you acknowledge my piss taking of your angry post, and completely ignore the valid one

Yes, it is sad that women are still treated like they are in those countries, it seems below primitive and I struggle to understand why such things are still taking place to this day. But dont go thinking I have forgotten whats happening in the first world countries, sure, women dont get paid as much, women are viewed as sex objects (dont act like there arent male strippers either though), plus you have had to fight against the mould to do what you want with your own life.

But I am NOT going to be anyones whipping boy just because you are pissed off at the suffering of OTHER members of your sex whose pain is caused by OTHER members of mine

At 11/7/03 06:07 PM, Anti_Society wrote:

At 11/5/03 01:20 PM, Detesticus wrote:

That wrecks any chances of me taking your post seriouslly. I think its funny that you take that seriouslly what tv portrays the man as. If you dont like it, dont watch it. And your tolerance level of homosexuality only shows your ignorance. Thank you for those south park inspired and very ignorant words. The fact that you think heterosexuality is the "right" sexuality inspires me.

What, I think that we can all agree anyone who uses T.V. as their window to the world and lets it control the way they see the world should bugger off...

Gay people seem to be all about letting people think and act the way they want, if straight men dont want to hang around with them it is a decision they are allowed to make...homophobia is an incredibly annoying word, I would rather be around other straight men than be around gay men, but its not an irrational phobia of something I dont understand, I simply prefer the former

Finally, I know you were not referring to me with this post but I felt the need to address it, here goes...yes I think that straight is the natural sexuality, I am aware of the fact that homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom, but that doesnt change my view that hetersexuality is the natural way...plus, plenty of gay men & women feel superior simply for the fact they prefer genitals of the same kind they possess

I await your flamings

As do I.

At 11/8/03 08:52 PM, SonyPornStation wrote: I'd like to say that I believe there are certain things in the world that are wrong and some that have no arguable base to them. I believe that being gay is wrong. I believe that being a lesbian is wrong. I believe that rape is wrong. I believe that men shouldn't hit women and that women should neither hit men. I believe killing is wrong if not done to save one's life. I believe that men shouldn't treat women like objects. I believe that women shouldn't act like objects. I believe that women shouldn't wear tight clothes and abhor male attention. I believe men shouldn't designate women as the child care. I believe women shouldn't distrust men with care of the children.

I never miss a good opportunity to list things.

I believe that there's nothing morally wrong about homosexuality. I believe that rape is wrong. I believe men and women should feel free to hit each other if the situation calls for it (abuse is another matter). I believe killing is wrong unless it's to save your life or the other guy is really annoying. I believe that a little objectification is going to happen but, people shouldn't take it too far. I believe that women should realize that they objectify guys just as much as guys objectify them so they can stop bitching about it (by "they" I mean those women who are currently bitching about it). I believe that women SHOULD wear tight clothing unless they are unattractive and should appreciate the attention that guys give them which they are quite obviously seeking. I believe that men shouldn't assume that women are good with kids because some women don't know what the hell they're doing. I believe that women should mistrust men with child care because most of us don't know what the hell we're doing. I believe that a boy tapping a girl on the shoulder shouldn't be considered a sexual crime. I believe that most sexual harrassment laws are bullshit and people need to stop being so damn sensitive. I believe that sitcoms are funny and that, if you think that one of the characters represents you and are offended by it, you're a dumbass. I believe that people should be honest even if it's not politically correct (at least here). I believe that saying random sexist things just to see how people will react is fun. I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky. I believe that it's late and my post is probably completely incoherent. And, most of all, I believe I'm gonna get a whole lot of flak for posting this.

I agree with you completely.... and all the fat and ugly women can't get out of bed...so they cant be anywhere to be found.

At 11/8/03 10:28 PM, TheTio wrote:


Gay people seem to be all about letting people think and act the way they want, if straight men dont want to hang around with them it is a decision they are allowed to make...homophobia is an incredibly annoying word, I would rather be around other straight men than be around gay men, but its not an irrational phobia of something I dont understand, I simply prefer the former

Disliking people for being homosexual can also be considered homophobic, smartass. And, that my friend is prejuduced. One of which many dont even realise is wrong at all.

Finally, I know you were not referring to me with this post but I felt the need to address it, here goes...yes I think that straight is the natural sexuality, I am aware of the fact that homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom, but that doesnt change my view that hetersexuality is the natural way...plus, plenty of gay men & women feel superior simply for the fact they prefer genitals of the same kind they possess

I dont care if you think its natural(by the way you back up opinions with such great fact), that doesnt mean you have to dislike them for not participating in the "natural sexuality"

as swift says, "we have enough just enough religion to hate and not enough to love"

we live in a world that is gray there is very little black and white yet you are trying to make people that are gay out to be the bad guys to a certian extent they have no choice in there desision and in other ways they were molested and that caused something in them to feel comfertable only around men as some resurch would sugest. but the whole thing is that if you will not go and help solve the probelms of racesim and homifobia then in some way or another then you are part of the problem that involves the total apathy of a nation when hate crimes are comited.

At 11/8/03 10:21 PM, TheTio wrote:

But you have no problems with hypocracy???

it's very easy to simply accuse someone you don't agree with as ignorant or hypocritical since all human beings are fallable and are all guilty of the same from time to time. so i'm not going to get all defensive about that

You are coming across as quite ignorant, just that you are ignorant on your high horse and we cant really do anything about that.

quick, you have five seconds! make that sentence make sense in standard english!!!

Also, I like the way you acknowledge my piss taking of your angry post, and completely ignore the valid one

and you do such a good job taking everything i say out of context and ignoring any validity in it yourself. welcome to political debate.

Yes, it is sad that women are still treated like they are in those countries, it seems below primitive and I struggle to understand why such things are still taking place to this day. But dont go thinking I have forgotten whats happening in the first world countries, sure, women dont get paid as much, women are viewed as sex objects (dont act like there arent male strippers either though), plus you have had to fight against the mould to do what you want with your own life.

But I am NOT going to be anyones whipping boy just because you are pissed off at the suffering of OTHER members of your sex whose pain is caused by OTHER members of mine

i'm not accusing you personally of being responsible, i don't know where you got that because i never blamed you. i'm angry at the idea that people treat femminism, the movement for gender equality, as an obnoxious infringement on their high and mighty male superiority. it also makes me angry when people say femminism isn't needed any more when around the world women are getting totally fucked over just because they're women. that's pretty fucking ignorant.

i also think it's ignorant to say that being gay is wrong. until you can provide a legitimate arguement against gay people, besides the teachings of a few poorley translated bible verses(because christianity is the ONLY religion that gets that worked up over a bunch of queers) you're arguement is ignorant and ill conceived. actually tio, if you must know, that post you attacked me for? it was directed at sonypornstation, not you.

At 11/9/03 02:06 AM, Anti_Society wrote:

At 11/8/03 10:28 PM, TheTio wrote:


Gay people seem to be all about letting people think and act the way they want, if straight men dont want to hang around with them it is a decision they are allowed to make...homophobia is an incredibly annoying word, I would rather be around other straight men than be around gay men, but its not an irrational phobia of something I dont understand, I simply prefer the former

Disliking people for being homosexual can also be considered homophobic, smartass. And, that my friend is prejuduced. One of which many dont even realise is wrong at all.

Goddamit, I hate when people reply to my posts in portions...anyway. Well, I am free to like and dislike anyone I want, call my prejudice, I realise it offends many people...but I simply dont care, I prefer the company of straight people, dont know why, just do.

Finally, I know you were not referring to me with this post but I felt the need to address it, here goes...yes I think that straight is the natural sexuality, I am aware of the fact that homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom, but that doesnt change my view that hetersexuality is the natural way...plus, plenty of gay men & women feel superior simply for the fact they prefer genitals of the same kind they possess

I dont care if you think its natural(by the way you back up opinions with such great fact), that doesnt mean you have to dislike them for not participating in the "natural sexuality"

No, I never claimed it was a fact....hence the "I think that....." which obviously shows that I believe the fact heterosexuality is the natural way is simply my opinion, the only fact I showed was that homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom, is that a lie? Did you even read that post correctly or are you a tad dyslexic

At 11/9/03 10:21 AM, izuamoto wrote:

At 11/8/03 10:21 PM, TheTio wrote:

Yes, it is sad that women are still treated like they are in those countries, it seems below primitive and I struggle to understand why such things are still taking place to this day. But dont go thinking I have forgotten whats happening in the first world countries, sure, women dont get paid as much, women are viewed as sex objects (dont act like there arent male strippers either though), plus you have had to fight against the mould to do what you want with your own life.

But I am NOT going to be anyones whipping boy just because you are pissed off at the suffering of OTHER members of your sex whose pain is caused by OTHER members of mine

i'm not accusing you personally of being responsible, i don't know where you got that because i never blamed you. i'm angry at the idea that people treat femminism, the movement for gender equality, as an obnoxious infringement on their high and mighty male superiority. it also makes me angry when people say femminism isn't needed any more when around the world women are getting totally fucked over just because they're women. that's pretty fucking ignorant.

i also think it's ignorant to say that being gay is wrong. until you can provide a legitimate arguement against gay people, besides the teachings of a few poorley translated bible verses(because christianity is the ONLY religion that gets that worked up over a bunch of queers) you're arguement is ignorant and ill conceived. actually tio, if you must know, that post you attacked me for? it was directed at sonypornstation, not you.

Righty, well I will reply to this and not bother with those 5 second countdowns where my post was filleted, hate that shit.

Hmmmm, well I dont really think it is wrong...gay people can exist all they want...I dont plan on stopping them, and it isnt like we need people to sire children anymore with the population the way it is, so nothing is lost with people preferring those of their own sex

Have I once mentioned christianity here? If I have I seriously dont remember it and please quote me on it, I am an atheist until something better comes along

And I dont know about "getting so worked up about a bunch of queers"...I simply find the majority of them abrasive with my own personality, so mostly I hang out with people who I like, almost all of whom are straight, I guess that makes me a hateful sonbitch

I would rather not hang out with gay people who I dont enjoy the company of, just because it is the accepting thing to do...

At 11/9/03 10:21 AM, izuamoto wrote:

At 11/8/03 10:21 PM, TheTio wrote:

i also think it's ignorant to say that being gay is wrong. until you can provide a legitimate arguement against gay people, besides the teachings of a few poorley translated bible verses(because christianity is the ONLY religion that gets that worked up over a bunch of queers) you're arguement is ignorant and ill conceived. actually tio, if you must know, that post you attacked me for? it was directed at sonypornstation, not you.

Hmmmm, well I dont really think it is wrong...gay people can exist all they want...I dont plan on stopping them, and it isnt like we need people to sire children anymore with the population the way it is, so nothing is lost with people preferring those of their own sex

Have I once mentioned christianity here? If I have I seriously dont remember it and please quote me on it, I am an atheist until something better comes along

again, i was actually refferring to a comment by sonypornstation which did involve gays and religion, and the thing where you jumped on my back had nothing to do with you at all until you made it. i could care less what you think of gay people. SPS made a comment about how he thought it was wrong the be gay or lesbian. nothing to do with you. at all.

i'm sorry if that confused you, because truth be told i really was looking for an argument with him, but i was kind of almost expecting someone else to misinterpret it and come after me

And I dont know about "getting so worked up about a bunch of queers"

nothing to do with you, i was referring, once again to SPS's religion of choice.

...I simply find the majority of them abrasive with my own personality, so mostly I hang out with people who I like, almost all of whom are straight, I guess that makes me a hateful sonbitch

no that doesn't make you a hateful son of a bitch. and if anyone thinks you are a hateful son of a bitch because you have met individuals you found unpleasant, then i have a problem with that person.

actually, i commend you because even though you haven't met many (if any) gay people you like you refrain from judging gays on a whole based on those individuals. or at least, you don't say you want them all butchered and burned. very comforting

Ah alrighty then, cheers

Well I figured that last one was directed at me, seeing as you included my quote in that post

At 11/5/03 01:20 PM, Detesticus wrote: Okay my fellow NG hoes, here's the deal.

Unless you do not watch TV, you'll probably hear the F-word (Feminism) tossed around a bit or at LEAST hinted at obliquely in shows. To be blunt, feminism has permeated most of TV land and other national forms of communication. If you notice with most sitcoms...

Men are either:

Lazy
Fat
Drunk
Befuddled
Breast-Ogling Pigs
All-of-the-Above.

it's funny tho. everybody loves raymond is hilarious, friends=hilarious, simpsons=hilarious

While women in sitcoms like that god-awful "Dharma and Greg" and that "gay show" on NBC that I forget. WOmen are portrayed as absolute, flawless Goddesses. I mean, where are the fat, ugly, disgruntled women at??? I recently noticed that a new reality show "Average Joe" pits one beautiful woman against an array of motley losers and fat-asses.

yea, thats pretty crazy stuff. i dont take offense because im not on the show. it is pretty degrading to the guys on that show tho.

What if the show were on the OTHER foot? Suppose a guy gets to choose between ugly women? I betcha there would be a political backlash so stringent against men!

yea, that would be pretty stupid

And speaking of gays, to further humiliate and emasuclate men, we have a bunch of gays walking around and turning guys into "metrosexuals." I mean with all this feminism being exhorted, guys are being left to the curb.

Perhaps a new awareness of masculinity is needed. I mean we need a new masculine mystique, as it were.

we got our own tv station now, its called spike tv

Bottom line, I think feminism is beating a dead horse. I mean feminism, much like the African-American movement that bot hstarted around the 60's and 70's, has lost much of it power and meaning of today. Things are not as black and white as the used to be, instead things are shades of gray. I mean I hear "Affirmative Action" will eventually be dissolved in about 30 years because as they figure...Black people would have "caught up" to Whites and racism will have been diluted. Well if they are going to do the that, they should also curb feminism. I mean what real point does it have now?

uhh, there are still countless people fighting the for black people's civil rights. its definately not a dieing movement

Here's an idea, why don't you femi-nazis complain about something that actually IS a problm in this country, such as the use of "sex" to sell to the male sex and the abscene of fat, tubby women in the process

good point. cant argue with that; they degrade themselves with such actions, but then try to say they dont wanna be objectified, go figure.

At 11/5/03 01:20 PM, Detesticus wrote: Men are either:

Lazy
Fat
Drunk
Befuddled
Breast-Ogling Pigs
All-of-the-Above.

If they weren’t that way, they wouldn’t be all that funny now would they?

WOmen are portrayed as absolute, flawless Goddesses.

Female viewers like female characters who take initiative and have a lot of style.

I mean, where are the fat, ugly, disgruntled women at??? I recently noticed that a new reality show "Average Joe" pits one beautiful woman against an array of motley losers and fat-asses.

I’ve heard of that. Sounds funny, but I won’t watch it.

What if the show were on the OTHER foot? Suppose a guy gets to choose between ugly women? I betcha there would be a political backlash so stringent against men!

Doubt it. I bet it would be an awesome idea. You should talk to networks about it.

And speaking of gays, to further humiliate and emasuclate men, we have a bunch of gays walking around and turning guys into "metrosexuals." I mean with all this feminism being exhorted, guys are being left to the curb.

So there are gay people on TV, big deal.

I don’t think you’re problem is with feminism, but more so with and inequality of casual/superstar male and female actors on TV.

At 11/10/03 08:54 PM, Dagodevas wrote: I don’t think you’re problem is with feminism, but more so with and inequality of casual/superstar male and female actors on TV.

I think he was implying that the inequality is a cause of feminism.

don't you mean he thinks the inequality is caused by femminism? which is just stupid because femminists have nothing to do with what's on tv

At 11/10/03 10:06 PM, izuamoto wrote: don't you mean he thinks the inequality is caused by femminism? which is just stupid because femminists have nothing to do with what's on tv

Yeah that is what I meant, and I didnt say it wasnt stupid.

I think it was a coded meaning warning us of the impending doom of combinging salt and pepper, we have gotten away with it this long, but it is a matter of time before it all blows up in our faces.

How about detesticus comes in here and tells us what he really means instead of us all taking our own spin on it and misinterpreting him.

you should all watch law shows, both genders are usually pretty damn smooth on law shows, screw sitcoms if they piss you off so much, law shows all the way

i think the best female empowerment comes from teaching women not to be victims. you want to be empowered? buy a fucking handgun and learn to defend yourself against potential attackers. learn to not have pity. that will prevent not only women from becoming victims of violent crimes, but will also carry over to greater confidence in the rest of their lives.

enough with this feel-good warm and fuzzy bullshit. i want hot lead to empower me.

Ah, I so love coming into the political forum every day, and in every post finding a small war going on... Ok, so let me just try and sum up what the current debate has spiked into: First it was the way men were portrayed on television, then it was into a gay thing, now it is sort of a femm gay thing, with Izuamoto, her usual cheery self, leading the charge.

Well here's my two cents: Although I support homosexuals, as well as being friends with a few, it is OBVIOUSLY not as nature intended. Men and woman were made with diffrent parts for one reason: reproduction. Yes, if everyone on the face of the planet suddenly turned queer, all life would be extinguished over a matter of years(although I'm sure there are quite a few homosexual scientists working around the clock right now trying to find ways to get past that little problem...) But I'm not going to say I like ghey people in particular, cause that would be prejudice, basically the same as saying I like black people or white people better than another... people.

As for the whole femmenism thing: I f***ing hate extreme femmenists. I don't mean your average "I want to be paid as much as a man" femmenist, I mean the, "All men are pigs and deserve to die!" femmenists. (Like that one on Vice City, you know, she was a guest on KChat... Oh well, nevermind...) But I think those ones are basically hated as much as the KKK. But femmenism is still very much needed, and probably always will be. To make a tired point, there is still a lot of unequality out there.

I don't think anyone here is against the Equality of Women and Men. We must've forget that men are not Gods, who are always secure and are always right. We have our pressures too, just as women have theirs. It does not give men the right to diss women or to limit their freedoms in any way, but it doesn't give women the right to begin ranting frantically about how much it sucks to be a woman, because it sometimes sucks to be a man too. Some women may be angry and bitter about the pace of the changes, but you must not forget that changes have happened. Look to the Suffragettes, does anyone here really think they thought they could change everything in a week or throwing bricks through store windows? Ultimately, yes, but in a short-term, no. Men are beginning to change, and some changes are already well underway, some are not, that I'll readily admit.

I guess the real obstacle to a quick change in attitude would be the differences between men and women. You could argue about those until you turn blue in the face and you still wouldn't be anywhere. Each gender has their advantages and disadvantages over the other gender. By the way, to izuamoto: There are guys out there who have been described as fat, pasty asses, do you really think that making a comment like that will actually help anything?

At 11/14/03 02:02 AM, Lyddiechu wrote: i think the best female empowerment comes from teaching women not to be victims. you want to be empowered? buy a fucking handgun and learn to defend yourself against potential attackers. learn to not have pity. that will prevent not only women from becoming victims of violent crimes, but will also carry over to greater confidence in the rest of their lives.

i agree, lyddie. women should stop acting like pussies if they don't want to get kicked around. but i do so hope you're kidding about the whole guns=empowerment thing. that's frightening on so many different levels. unfortunately women can't walk the streets of the average city alone unarmed anymore. at least, i don't think they should. i don't think anyone should. you just sound a little trigger happy. that's all

enough with this feel-good warm and fuzzy bullshit. i want hot lead to empower me.

really? i'm more partial to cold steel as a form of empowerment. it takes longer to die by disembowlment then massive brain trauma(headshot)

what warm and fuzzy bullshit? what's so warm and fuzzy about politcal and social reform through non violent means?

i love it when everyone on the forum takes their little pot shots at me. wee, i just worked a 13 hour shift and i'm not thinking straight so i'm gonna wrap this up.

love you too true lies, you really summed the whole discussion up nicely. yes, very profound and astute. i'm sure you're a bright ray of sunshine yourself :D

sanlitun, i really don't care if one comment i made offends some guys who have been described as pasty asses, cuz quite frankly i've been offended so many time on this forum, as has everyone else, that the whole purpose of that comment seems more to be an act of singling me out than saying anything insightful or helpful. i don't mean to insult you, that's just the way i see it.

well, next time you attack me for being angry just take a look at all the people here who have angry bitter views but who you agree with. you chose me because conveiniently i was the only female on the thread and i opposed the prevailing veiwpoint. a predicatable and offen repeated scenario. ok, i'm too tired now, i m done

At 11/15/03 01:44 AM, izuamoto wrote: well, next time you attack me for being angry just take a look at all the people here who have angry bitter views but who you agree with. you chose me because conveiniently i was the only female on the thread and i opposed the prevailing veiwpoint.

Point taken :) I apologize.

Ok here is a page about Feminism. It handles all of the issues about it very nicely and all you should read it. Translation: It is the funniest shit you will ever read.

Feminism: Fucking Sick of It!

Oh, feminists, by the way:

NOBODY GIVES A FLYING FUCK!

tehehe. from http://maddox.xmission.com/

teh feminist page you posted wasn't that funny.

but at least your spelling it right.

feminist
feminism

At 11/15/03 11:17 PM, SonyPornStation wrote: Oh, feminists, by the way:

NOBODY GIVES A FLYING FUCK!

My... what an overwhelming display of intelligence. You, sir, are a top tier intellectual. I salute your wit and amazing abilities of reasoning. You should be the supreme deity of all knowledge now and forevermore. You have absolutely swayed your each and every opponent to your line of thought with your amazing rhetoric and logic.