Come Forth Negativity! Arise!

[gumOnShoe]

Ah, so welcome August. Its fun isn't it? All that good nurtured debate dissolving into not so thinly vieled insults to be hurled at the closest visible opponent. Whats your opinion on the sudden, expected, turn of events?

I find it almost rediculous how far its gone, but I'm minorly surprised at how one sided it really is. You know the basics of course. In recent days McCain has claimed Obama has used the race card. Feel free to listen to that infamous quote here. There was that whole brittany/Paris commercial. And now, McCains website is claiming that Obama think's he's moses. Its rather interesting, but I think somehow they're overshooting themselves.

Obama's adds seem to stick mostly to the issues, or the issue Obama has latched onto: big oil equals republicans. But it doesn't seem to go farther than that.

Not surprising when you compare the numbers either. 1/3 of McCain's adds mention Obama, where only 1/10 of Obama's mention McCain.

So, just on the matter of whose running a more respectful campain, it seems clear to me, but whats your thoughts? And additionally, what should the candidates be attacking each other on?

It seems to me that it would make more sense for McCain to compare Obama's healthcare revolution to social security, we all know how bad that is failing. And Obama's camp could at least bring up McCain's "Spiritual leader".

The simple fact of the matter here is that most americans who care about the election already know the issues and the positions, so the next 3 months are a waste of time after we find out who our vps are. It will just be a further spiral of attack ads.

Negativity, its one of the things we here at newgrounds are perfect at. How would you run a better negative campaign than the one McCain is failing at?

[MultiCanimefan]

Cellardoor6 is sure to come now. You have absolutely no idea what you've just done.

[Gunter45]

It's interesting. Usually it's the Democrats who run self-defeating campaigns, but I never thought I'd see a Republican campaign centered around claiming that the other candidate is simply too popular. Is this really a winning strategy, honestly?

Now, I haven't worked on any major campaigns, but I've done some election work and campaigning for local issues and figures and, even at that level, you know that the way to win is to let everyone know that your issue or candidate is the one everyone's backing. People are easily swayed by public opinion and like to go with whatever rocks the boat the least. If an issue or a candidate is popular, that's the one that, most likely, is going to win.

It really seems like the Republican Party is trying to lose at this point. Kind of a switch, if you ask me.

[gumOnShoe]

At 8/1/08 07:09 PM, Gunter45 wrote: It's interesting. Usually it's the Democrats who run self-defeating campaigns, but I never thought I'd see a Republican campaign centered around claiming that the other candidate is simply too popular. Is this really a winning strategy, honestly?

Only if they can manage to convince Americans that the rest of the world is evil and since the rest of the world seems to like Obama, he is also evil. That seems to be their general strategy, and given the isolationist mindset of some Americans it will probably work. But on the general populist thats considers themselves to be independent, its not very likely.

Its like they are trying to say, people liked Hitler. You like Obama, see the coorilation?

Now, I haven't worked on any major campaigns, but I've done some election work and campaigning for local issues and figures and, even at that level, you know that the way to win is to let everyone know that your issue or candidate is the one everyone's backing. People are easily swayed by public opinion and like to go with whatever rocks the boat the least. If an issue or a candidate is popular, that's the one that, most likely, is going to win.

I'd generally agree with that. Most people would rather sit down and have a drink with Bush, look who won.

It really seems like the Republican Party is trying to lose at this point. Kind of a switch, if you ask me.

I think they don't have a unified strategy, unless this is suddenly their unified strategy which is to believe in the worst part of america. It might work, really. It would be unfortunate if it did, but I'm too much of a cynic to believe in the American people as a whole. We've made some bad mistakes in the past and continually prove to be open to persuasion from the media and whatever else is willing to talk in our ear or hand us money.

[Memorize]

So when Obama says "They are going to make you afraid of me... because I don't look like the people on the dollar bills..."

I suppose he was just saying he looked better, right?

[stafffighter]

At 8/1/08 07:35 PM, Memorize wrote: So when Obama says "They are going to make you afraid of me... because I don't look like the people on the dollar bills..."

I suppose he was just saying he looked better, right?

Or that he was calling them on playing the race card on him. You can't compare todays ideal of a handsome man to the 1700's.

[Memorize]

At 8/1/08 08:39 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 8/1/08 07:35 PM, Memorize wrote: So when Obama says "They are going to make you afraid of me... because I don't look like the people on the dollar bills..."

I suppose he was just saying he looked better, right?

Or that he was calling them on playing the race card on him. You can't compare todays ideal of a handsome man to the 1700's.

He mirrored his previous statement a couple months ago. "They're going to make you afraid...". The only difference? He replaced "Oh and did I mention he's black" with "I don't look like the guys on the money".

[stafffighter]

At 8/1/08 09:43 PM, Memorize wrote:

He mirrored his previous statement a couple months ago. "They're going to make you afraid...". The only difference? He replaced "Oh and did I mention he's black" with "I don't look like the guys on the money".

Yeah and the guys on the money are white. it's the same thing. And, might I add, he wasent wrong about them doing it.

[WolvenBear]

At 8/1/08 11:41 PM, stafffighter wrote: Yeah and the guys on the money are white. it's the same thing. And, might I add, he wasent wrong about them doing it.

No one has claimed you shouldn't vote for Obama because he's black...except for Obama in talking about these imaginary people. He's thwe only one who's played the race card. And he's played it repeatedly.

[gumOnShoe]

At 8/2/08 01:30 AM, WolvenBear wrote:

At 8/1/08 11:41 PM, stafffighter wrote: Yeah and the guys on the money are white. it's the same thing. And, might I add, he wasent wrong about them doing it.

No one has claimed you shouldn't vote for Obama because he's black...except for Obama in talking about these imaginary people. He's thwe only one who's played the race card. And he's played it repeatedly.

You're playing the "play the race card" card. Its the easiest way for white people to get away with being racist. "Oh their just playing the race card"

Nevermind that Obama has consistantly tried to distance himself from previous politics and candidates and presidents. Of course he's different than them, and yeah perhaps he is black. But he's saying, don't be afraid of me because I'm different. And thats not playing the race card thats asking for a fair chance. In some ways McCain is the one playing the race card, just from the top of the deck.

[WolvenBear]

At 8/2/08 01:33 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: You're playing the "play the race card" card. Its the easiest way for white people to get away with being racist. "Oh their just playing the race card"

I didn't play the "play the race card" card. I told you what Obama said.
I'm sorry you're too much of a moron to deal with reality.

If I simply report on what someone else says, I'm not playing any card...I'm just reporting.

Nevermind that Obama has consistantly tried to distance himself from previous politics and candidates and presidents. Of course he's different than them, and yeah perhaps he is black. But he's saying, don't be afraid of me because I'm different. And thats not playing the race card thats asking for a fair chance. In some ways McCain is the one playing the race card, just from the top of the deck.

He's not different. He's a run of the mill career politician.
He's boring, and completely average in every single way. Same old same old.

And if you say that your opponents are telling people not to vote for you because you're black, it is INDEED playing the race card. And being that McCain is Barack Obama's biggest defender from attacks, it also makes Obama a filthy liar.

[Memorize]

Well... would ya look at that.

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

I was always under the impression that playing the race card was soemthing that people pulled out when it wasn't relevant or they had no other defense for something.

Obama is black and running for the presidency. The entire world is focusing on the fact that he's black. Him stating ' yes I'm black, but don't let that put you off voting for me' is not playing the race card. It is him addressing the fact that certain parts of American society will be campaigning agains thim simply because he is Black.

His statement was valid as race is a factor in this presdinetial contest and him saying ' give me a chance before you judge me on the colour of my skin', which sadly some people will do, is a valid response.

[homor]

because mocking your oppoent and saying they fear you because you're black sin't the race card at all.

[hrb5711]

Well McCain is doing something right, or Obama is doing something really wrong. It is a tie 44% for each candidate. So I think the next three months are very important and I think the race will be decided by the VPs each candidate picks.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109219/Gallup -Daily-Race-Tied-44.aspx

[gumOnShoe]

At 8/2/08 03:44 AM, Memorize wrote: Well... would ya look at that.

Well... would ya post the relevant information as well:

Original quote: "They're gonna try to say he's a risky guy. They're gonna try to say well you know he's got a funny name and he doesn't look like all the presidents on the dollar bills and five dollar bills."

Clarification from Axelrod: "He's not from central casting when it comes to candidates for president of the United States. He's new to Washington. Yes, he's African-American." -David Axelrod

Seems to me its just an acknowledgement of the facts.

At 8/2/08 06:00 AM, homor wrote: because mocking your oppoent and saying they fear you because you're black isn't the race card at all.

Its not mocking at all. And he said they were going to make him look risky because he's different from most of former presidential candidates. He never said black, even if black is an element of the set of qualities people are using to make him look risky. Quite frankly, if you here the quote "he doesn't look like the presidents on the dollar bills and five dollar bills," and the first thing that comes to your mind is that he's black and thats the only thing that could mean, you have a narrow view.

[homor]

At 8/2/08 06:00 AM, homor wrote: because mocking your oppoent and saying they fear you because you're black isn't the race card at all.

He never said black,

and i quote:

"did i mention hes black?"

if you here the quote "he doesn't look like the presidents on the dollar bills and five dollar bills," and the first thing that comes to your mind is that he's black and thats the only thing that could mean, you have a narrow view.

yeah no, thats not why i think hes playing the race card.

its just that:

"did i mention hes black?"

[Memorize]

At 8/2/08 11:20 AM, gumOnShoe wrote:

Seems to me its just an acknowledgement of the facts.

You're the one who said it was McCain using race.

Yet it was Obama who stood up in front of a crowd of people and told them that his opponents (McCain and the Republicans) were going to make us afraid of him BECAUSE he was black.

Where and when did that happen? All of the racial and sexist bullshit all came from the democrats this election.

[JackPhantasm]

Obama will be getting a letter from me soon that should redefine his campaign if he actually reads it.

He's still not breaking the mold enough.

And he started wearing ties.

What the fuck.

[JackPhantasm]

For instance, he should've, instead of condemning that song, instead said something like, "Isn't that beautiful? Only in America."

[SmilezRoyale]

Obama has already said that when he said "Not like the... Dollar bill" He was talking about color. And it's hardly debatable that he played the race card unless you want to invoke the power of changing the definition of playing the race card.

For those of you who are willing to do anything to see Obama in power, it would be worth more of your time to perhaps denigrate the negativity of playing the race card itself.

[Gunter45]

At 8/2/08 02:11 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: Obama will be getting a letter from me soon that should redefine his campaign if he actually reads it.

He's still not breaking the mold enough.

And he started wearing ties.

What the fuck.

Yeah, and instead of voting yes on the FISA Amendments Act and reauthorizing the USAPATRIOT Act, maybe he should have voted against them. You know, seeing as how he's openly spoken out against them before, even to the point of saying he would filibuster the FISA Amendments Act. I really enjoy when candidates vote to treat the entire US population as potential criminals and set themselves up to have more executive power, should they win.

Really gives me a hard-on for the way our system's set up, I tell you that.

[JackPhantasm]

At 8/2/08 08:48 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
For those of you who are willing to do anything to see Obama in power, it would be worth more of your time to perhaps denigrate the negativity of playing the race card itself.

I think a black president in general is a step towards that.

[WolvenBear]

At 8/2/08 05:14 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I was always under the impression that playing the race card was soemthing that people pulled out when it wasn't relevant or they had no other defense for something.

Coming out and saying "My opponent is saying you shouldn't vote for me cause I'm black" is irrelevant if your opponent is saying no such thing. You'r being a filthy liar and a race baiter.

Obama is black and running for the presidency. The entire world is focusing on the fact that he's black. Him stating ' yes I'm black, but don't let that put you off voting for me' is not playing the race card. It is him addressing the fact that certain parts of American society will be campaigning agains thim simply because he is Black.

Horsecrap. Moving the goalposts.

[gumOnShoe]

At 8/3/08 06:33 AM, WolvenBear wrote:

At 8/2/08 05:14 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I was always under the impression that playing the race card was soemthing that people pulled out when it wasn't relevant or they had no other defense for something.

Coming out and saying "My opponent is saying you shouldn't vote for me cause I'm black" is irrelevant if your opponent is saying no such thing. You'r being a filthy liar and a race baiter.

He didn't say McCain, he said "they're" as in all of the people who will be making propaganda against him. And you know I have heard others telling me they wouldn't vote for him because he was black, so its not that far off the mark. Anyway, even if it did have to do with race it meant more than that. And the fact that he is black doesn't bother me, we can all see it. Its not like he claimed McCain was a member of the KKK and the government doesn't support black people. He was just saying that his opponents will draw attention to the fact that he's different than others to make him look like a scary candidate. And you know, they are, even if its not McCain directly.

[Memorize]

At 8/3/08 08:51 AM, gumOnShoe wrote:

He didn't say McCain, he said "they're" as in all of the people who will be making propaganda against him.

Obama specifically mentioned both Bush and McCain right before he said it.

[WolvenBear]

At 8/3/08 08:51 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: blah blh blah

What a load of crap.

They=Republicans, led by McCain and Bush.

No one has claimed you shouldn't vote for him cause of his name or color, so you're still a liar.

[gumOnShoe]

I don't believe there's anyway for me to "prove" my way out of this, but I will say that people who aren't McCain have been making an issue of his race since day 1. There isn't a much larger culprit than the press, and it was Fox News that jumped on the line which could mean many different things. Anyhow, I don't believe the comment was ment to be devisive. It was simply, "don't be afraid of me, I'm really not that scarry like you'd like them to believe I am."

And don't for a second try to argue that McCain wouldn't be happy (privately) that this would come up. If he can argue Obama played the race card, even on extremely shaky ground, he just won over a mass of ignorant white people who don't know anybetter and can't listen, and who will make race an issue. His campaign was hoping for this, though not as much as Fox news, which was the first place to broadcast the quote as being the race card (quickly followed by McCain).

You tell me, why on earth, Obama would go in front of a crowd of conservatives in the middle fucking nowhere, in front of cameras, and delibrately skuttle his campaign. Theres no sense in that at all. He wasn't trying to use the race card, he was trying to speak to people and get them to realise he knew the rumors and he could joke about them, but they were just rumors.

Also, sure its not McCain's site, but you don't here McCain calling for the hundreds of sites like it to be torn down. McCain won't "authorise" these messages, but he'll certainly use them and celebrate them as much as he can. http://dontvoteobama.net/ (not affiliated with McCain, not McCain's message, not even by intelligent people, but the point stands.)

[Memorize]

Denial is a funny character quality, isn't it?

[qu3muchach0]

just for laughs, maybe mccain should take a page out of kramer's book...