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Its a show. an entertaining show that Obama is putting on in order to remain in the spotlight. He is and will be using his vast political campaign war chest in order to put on huge shows to wow people and keep McCain in the shadows of the newsrooms. The only thing missing from Obama's show is his theme song.

of course both Obama and McCain are gonna screw the people and the nation over with their "grand miraculous ideas" by spending huge amounts of money the government can't afford to spend. It really doesn't matter WHO you elect, both candidates are gonna bankrupt the country with their programs.

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At 7/24/08 06:44 PM, Proteas wrote:
... but they don't get to vote for him, so why is he spending his campaign time trying to gain their favor by kissing their collective ass? I mean, shouldn't campaign speeches be done in the country where the people actually get to vote for the candidate?

He's a global campaigner, so what?

In this day and age that's completely reasonable. The flow of information is so wide, we can follow our candidates without having to go to town halls and whatnot.

Also.

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At 7/25/08 06:22 AM, Korriken wrote: It really doesn't matter WHO you elect, both candidates are gonna bankrupt the country with their programs.

Why does everyone think that two intelligent individuals wouldn't understand the concept of budgeting?

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At 7/24/08 09:01 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: It's a political ploy. Pure and simple. He knows that Germans mindlessly support him, and that he would get a big crowd to put some more oomph into the media coverage that is already completely biased in his favor.

I agree, 100%.

Too many Americans have been influenced by the "American Idol" ideology that whoever is most popular should be the winner.

And so, the majority of Americans being mindless media hypes will see the fact that thousands of people from another country, who can't even vote for US president, support Obama, then, they will use this fact to get more mindless and gullible people to think that he is the better candidate. They will fail to recognize which candidate actually has the ability to govern and which candidate can actually deal with the problems at hand. Instead, they will vote for the candidate that will tell them what they want to hear, and they will vote for the candidate that makes them feel good about themselves for being lazy and greedy (the majority of people in the US now unfortunately and the support for socialized healthcare shows that).

Learn to think for yourself people, anyone who thinks Obama is a good choice is just jumping on the bandwagon and asininely chanting "CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN."

As I have said before, you can't feed a family on the "hope" of change.

Oh, and are we surprised so many Germans went to his speech? I mean let's face it, the Germans do have a history of listening to someone who can speak well. It was Hitler in the 1930's and it's Obama in the 2000's.

Someone had to say it.
::

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I'm really surprised people are trying to interpret this as something that's it's not. It's a campaign move, it should not subject to interpretation other than that. It's a good move because he wants to showcase to the voters here that has received international applause.

I'm also getting frankly very tired of these so called "non-supporters" on here whose justification for their arguments is "well I don't support either of them so I can argue both sides of an issue when the other fails". That's fine if you're going to rant I suppose (in which case funnily enough these people often call supporters mindless) about how americans are voting based on what the media says and that germany is supporting Obama (the reports were actually that is was a warm but not necessarily enthusiastic reception) and that these people somehow have the same mindset that is identical to when hitler rose to power. Judging from the fact that since Hitler germany has seemingly gone through the entire marxist cycle and back, i would think they are of a slightly more cautious mindset. But back to the point, please remember that as respectable a point you might have, it is made less respectable when you conclude that whoever supports anyone is mindless. Perhaps they have merely made up their mind.

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At 7/25/08 02:40 PM, EKublai wrote: I'm really surprised people are trying to interpret this as something that's it's not. It's a campaign move, it should not subject to interpretation other than that. It's a good move because he wants to showcase to the voters here that has received international applause.

Exactly. It's amazing how many people on here will flat out read responses, pick on some tidbit some jackass said and just roll with it as if nobody's already countered their argument.

Obama is running for President with a strong platform of international relations.

Get this: showing that people in other countries likes you is a good way to show to people in YOUR country that you'll be taken seriously on a global level.

Going further around the circle, Obama is trying to get people to vote for him by saying people in other countries will like him and, thus, like America again.

Lots and lots of people think America has lost its standing in the international community for the past 8 years and want a leader who can fix that.

OH SHIT! GUESS WHAT, THAT MAKES THE WHOLE THING MAKE SENSE FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT!!

It only takes 5 seconds of politically minded thinking in order to figure out that this is a smart move on Obama's part. This is a political forum. It should already be taken, as a given, that you would think this through before posting some stupid ass opinion about how Germans can't vote for President. No shit, instead of stopping there, think of what other reasons someone could possibly have for making a speech on the international stage.

It blows my mind how retarded almost all of you are. Absolutely staggering.

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At 7/24/08 10:10 PM, Proteas wrote:

The purple heart is awarded to soldiers injured in combat and is in no way an indication of one's ability to lead. Also, if you check your facts, you'll find that Kerry suffered minor injuries that did not subtract ANY significant amount of on-time duty.

I know, i thought my facetiousness was easily detectable. [After all, he won three purple hearts!] guess i was wrong.

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At 7/25/08 02:40 PM, EKublai wrote: I'm really surprised people are trying to interpret this as something that's it's not. It's a campaign move, it should not subject to interpretation other than that. It's a good move because he wants to showcase to the voters here that has received international applause.

The only reason I support him is because of his ideas. Not his popularity.

You forget, to get popular, you actually have to fucking know what you're doing.

So what if he's using his popularity to try and gain an upperhand in the election?

Like...that's...the whole concept. Of campaigning. : |

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Basically what Gunter saidddd.

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At 7/26/08 12:43 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: The only reason I support him is because of his ideas. Not his popularity.

And those ideas are...?
Hope? Change?

At 7/26/08 12:43 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: You forget, to get popular, you actually have to fucking know what you're doing.

And that proves nothing. That only makes sense in markets and not politics.

At 7/26/08 12:43 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: So what if he's using his popularity to try and gain an upperhand in the election?

Like...that's...the whole concept. Of campaigning. : |

The obamanoids treat Barack Obama like he's a rock star and not a politician.

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Ich Ben Ein Berliner means I am a Donut, by the way.

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At 7/25/08 09:49 AM, physicsman09 wrote:

At 7/24/08 09:01 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

As I have said before, you can't feed a family on the "hope" of change.

I agree, you can't feed a family on the "hope" of change. But it's that very hope of change that will come to fruition and bring about the means of feeding families.

Oh, and are we surprised so many Germans went to his speech? I mean let's face it, the Germans do have a history of listening to someone who can speak well. It was Hitler in the 1930's and it's Obama in the 2000's.

I don't see why you underlined Germans. I mean, the last sentence of your statement was emphasis enough.

Someone had to say it.

You don't need to say what everyone's thinking in the first palce.

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At 7/24/08 04:04 PM, TrueDemocrat wrote:

At 7/24/08 03:55 PM, D2Kvirus wrote: Today's new headlines heavily featured Barack Obama's trip to Germany to meet with Andrea Merkel, and compared him to "great Presidents" (i.e. Kennedy and reagan - that's a laugh already, BTW).

So...what's he actually won to merit being headline news, let alone done to justify a state visit to Germany?

The German people have moved past their conservative policies of 1939. Unfortunately I can't say the same for you, as you are clearly a repugnant rebublican, or as I say, rethuglican. Nazi Germany called, they want their political ideology back.

Wow, usually I'm labelled a Liberal do-gooder. That's the first time I've been called a Republican.
*sniff*

By the way, you're an idiot. You'd think the Reagan jibe might have tipped you off that you were about to embark on a tirade of stupidity.

To answer your question, to germany, Obama is already president. They have embraced Obama's policies and embraced Obama himself as one of their own. My foreign policy teacher told me of Kennedy's famous qoute, "Ich bin ein Berliner" meaning "I am a Berliner." Today, Obama is a Berliner. A Kennedeyesque resident of Berlin.

"Obama is already President", you say? Tell me, how many votes have been counted in US Presidential Election? Would it be none? If so, he can't already be President.

So, why is he addressing 200,000 in Berlin? Do you think David Cameron or Nick Clegg should be in front of a rally of 200,000 because it's likely Labour will lose the next British General Election, or do you think that might come across as needless triumphalism with a strong undercurrent of arrogance on their part?

Which, coincidentally, is what JFK did - whether or not he compared himself to a doughnut...

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I cannot beleive how much republicans go out of the way just to make him look bad. Seriously, some people actually want world peace. I cannot understand why you wan't to kill every living soul not in america.

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At 7/28/08 10:04 AM, defencereview wrote: I cannot beleive how much republicans go out of the way just to make him look bad. Seriously, some people actually want world peace. I cannot understand why you wan't to kill every living soul not in america.

So let me get this straight.

You believe that Republicans want to kill everyone who isn't American?

Well then you are officially a liberal hippie sack of shit moron who falls for liberal propoganda because he's a gullible dipshit.

Republicans (myself included) believe that the President of the United States of America should govern the United States of America, he shouldn't pander to the ungrateful European countries that will find some reason to hate us no matter what we do.

And Obama goes out of his way to make himself look bad, the Republicans do not try particularly hard. The reason why people believe that Republicans are making him look bad is because they look at the republican ads (My favorite) and they don't realize that this is what Obama has said, it isn't something the Republicans make up.

McCain 08.

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lol, I made one mad.

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He knows that Germans mindlessly support him, and that he would get a big crowd to put some more oomph into the media coverage that is already completely biased in his favor.

oh look another bigoted American giving out about people he doesn't know or understand.

The content of the speech was retarded in and of itself.

so you dont agree that we should all at least try to be good and nice people then? interesting...

a calculated political move and nothing else.

and you would be giving out about your candidate being calculated because you'd rather he were an idiot who just went with the flow?

I frankly don't give a shit about what Germans think about Obama.

well of course you don't! it's people like YOU who are the reason why people like ME hate you and your fucking country for being THE biggest BULLY in the world. now shut up and grow up.

But I have yo say, it's a good example of the kind of person Obama is. He'd rather be flying around the world, getting some photo ops and appeasing Eurotrash, than stay in the COUNTRY THAT HE IS RUNNING TO BE THE LEADER OF.

eurotrash?? EUROTRASH?? appeasing the so called trash is called making and maintaining allies. this is something both candidates would have to do as a president. unless you'd rather take on the "terrorists" by yourself because as we've all so easily forgotten America is a wonderful and lovely country full of power and might and sure the trash might as well just bow down now.

oh wait, how strong is the euro against the doller these days? obama went to Germany because he had to. fact. if you dont like it, tough.

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Cellardoor6- Stop hating on the Germans. Also, America and Germany are two very closely related countries. German Americans make up the largest ancestry group in America, both countries have experienced brutal periods of white supremacy in the past, and the people of the countries are more alike than you think in values.

Physicsman09- If it had to be said so bad, why not just say it to yourself? And people who stereotype entire nations because of their past sins piss me off.

BTW, "Ich bin ein Berliner" is an incorrect statement in German. "Ich bin Berliner" is the correct statement. By saying Ich bin ein berliner, JFK called himself a berliner, a type of jelly donut in berlin.

As for Obama in Germany, it's a smart political move. He's catering to all of Europe by going to it's strongest country. And he's getting all undecided voters in America of German descent.

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At 7/28/08 11:45 AM, smidge111 wrote:

He knows that Germans mindlessly support him, and that he would get a big crowd to put some more oomph into the media coverage that is already completely biased in his favor.

oh look another bigoted American giving out about people he doesn't know or understand.

Oh look, an uneducated, bitter, brainwashed European.

Meanwhile, I lived in Germany. I bet I know more about Germans than you know about Americans.

The content of the speech was retarded in and of itself.

so you dont agree that we should all at least try to be good and nice people then? interesting...

I don't agree that being nice to people and sucking the collective dick of Europeans who will hate us NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, is a very good trait of a future president. Obama's campaign is a big farce, he can talk all he wants about being "nice" to people, but his speech had absolutely zero specifics, none of his public speeches or interviews have specifics. The speech was just a bunch of emotionally charged nonsense to get the mindless liberal Europeans into a frenzy.

He's a good orator. He's good at striking at peoples emotions to the point they suspend their logic. That's what the speech was.

a calculated political move and nothing else.

and you would be giving out about your candidate being calculated because you'd rather he were an idiot who just went with the flow?

I'd rather not have a president who bases almost his entire candidacy on calculated, disingenuous political maneuvers yet who has no real substance whatsoever.

That is what Obama is. He is a candidate whose entire strength rests on his appeal to younger people; his fresh new face, his clever speech writers, campaign advisers, and his ability to create emotionally charged political rants that don't really say anything specific, but just make feeble minded people quiver with excitement. He has no substance, he is incredibly vague about everything and the majority of people who support him cannot mention a single accurate fact to explain why, either that or they believe that the US under Obama will be weaker.

I frankly don't give a shit about what Germans think about Obama.

well of course you don't! it's people like YOU who are the reason why people like ME hate you and your fucking country for being THE biggest BULLY in the world. now shut up and grow up.

And that's why people like ME are weary of Obama when people like YOU who admit to hate Americans and hate America so stridently and mindlessly support and defend Obama.

But really, the reason you hate Americans is because you've been brainwashed your entire life. In order to ignore and avoid dealing with your inferiority to and dependence on America, you have to hate Americans. Europeans hating Americans is the most epic form of biting the hand that feeds you imaginable.

But I have yo say, it's a good example of the kind of person Obama is. He'd rather be flying around the world, getting some photo ops and appeasing Eurotrash, than stay in the COUNTRY THAT HE IS RUNNING TO BE THE LEADER OF.

eurotrash?? EUROTRASH?? appeasing the so called trash is called making and maintaining allies.

No, it's called turning the race into a infantile popularity contest with people who can't even vote for the president.

this is something both candidates would have to do as a president.

And the thing is, the US already has allies in Europe. Germany specifically already is a US ally, and McCain can and will cooperate with them.

unless you'd rather take on the "terrorists" by yourself

The US already is basically taking on the terrorists by ourselves. NATO countries like Germany and France are doing, and will do the most MINIMAL job possible just to uphold the bottom nend of their agreements and the illusion that they actually cooperate. That wouldn't change under Obama.

Germany has no desire to actually help in Afghanistan for example. They refuse to use combat troops, they only station a few amount of people in the most peaceful areas of Afghanistan. That is Germany's policy. Obama couldn't change that. You thinking he could just because a crowd of mostly mindless young German college students cheered him as he pulled their chain, is pretty funny.

because as we've all so easily forgotten America is a wonderful and lovely country full of power and might and sure the trash might as well just bow down now.

Sounds great, lol.

oh wait, how strong is the euro against the doller these days?

How irrelevant is that and how much does that display your ignorance of how you define the power of a country? The Mexican Peso is 10 times as valuable as the Japanese Yen, does that mean Mexico is stronger than Japan?

How dependent is Europe on the US as a whole? Quite dependent. You can talk about "strength" as if that is confined to the value of currency, but you ignore that Europe is highly dependent on the US, especially in defense. Europe, and NATO, is an empty shell without the US.

obama went to Germany because he had to. fact. if you dont like it, tough.

Obama went to Germany because he wants Europeans to think he had to, fact.

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At 7/28/08 06:05 PM, DeathNoteetoNhtaeD wrote: Cellardoor6- Stop hating on the Germans.

I don't hate Germans, at all. I speak German for fuck sake, I actually love Germans. However their political views are retarded, and it's usually they who hate Americans... that's why they support Obama after all.

Also, America and Germany are two very closely related countries. German Americans make up the largest ancestry group in America

I'm quite aware of that. I'm half German, roughly.

both countries have experienced brutal periods of white supremacy in the past, and the people of the countries are more alike than you think in values.

I was an exchange student in Germany. I stayed there for several months off and on. Don't lecture me about German society.

Physicsman09- If it had to be said so bad, why not just say it to yourself? And people who stereotype entire nations because of their past sins piss me off.

BTW, "Ich bin ein Berliner" is an incorrect statement in German.

Wow, no it's not. It's completely correct.

"Ich bin Berliner" is the correct statement.

Nope.

JFK called himself a berliner, a type of jelly donut in berlin.

That's a big myth, I've heard it several times but it's completely untrue. What JFK said was both grammatically correct and was a coherent nuance. Berlin residents themselves will say "Ich bin ein Berliner". Although Germans outside of Berlin do call jelly doughnuts Berliner.

Think about it this way, say someone named a pizza a "New Yorker". People from New York will still be called New Yorkers, but the word will take on a second nuance when referring to pizza. Only an idiot though, would think that it only refers to the pizza.

As for Obama in Germany, it's a smart political move. He's catering to all of Europe by going to it's strongest country. And he's getting all undecided voters in America of German descent.

Um, no.

Sorry, but just... no. Not true.

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I don't understand the importance of the trip, honestly. He's running for President of the United States. But there is some strategy behind it, that is showing off his popularity with foreign people.

I kinda like it, but then again I'm voting for him.

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At 7/28/08 06:05 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: I'd rather not have a president who bases almost his entire candidacy on calculated, disingenuous political maneuvers yet who has no real substance whatsoever.

Then I'm afraid you will be forever disappointed by whoever gets elected. If you think McCain is any less opportunistic or politically underhanded, you're displaying an uncharacteristic amount of naivete... or are just blinded by your hate of anything "left" of you... it's hard to tell.

his ability to create emotionally charged political rants that don't really say anything specific, but just make feeble minded people quiver with excitement. He has no substance, he is incredibly vague about everything and the majority of people who support him cannot mention a single accurate fact to explain why, either that or they believe that the US under Obama will be weaker.

Sometimes the ability to simply motivate the population into action is all that is needed to effect positive... dare I say it... change. Someone could have the best, most detailed, plans in existence, but if he can't motivate people to act on them, then what use are they?

No, it's called turning the race into a infantile popularity contest with people who can't even vote for the president.

Again: absentee ballots. Also: just because the speech was in Germany, doesn't mean it wasn't targeted at voters in the US.

And another thing: if you think that any presidential contest in recent memory hasn't been an "infantile popularity contest", then you're sadly mistaken. Had Kerry been an iota more charismatic than a block of mahogany, he would have won easily... same with Gore. Clinton was in the middle of a sex scandal, and because the best person the Reps could come up with was slightly more expressive than a hand puppet, you got owned.

It's ALWAYS been a popularity contest. Mainly because the general public isn't well-informed enough to actually make an educated decision.

Sorry to break it to you, but the presidency isn't won on issues, it's won on charisma... always.

And the thing is, the US already has allies in Europe. Germany specifically already is a US ally, and McCain can and will cooperate with them.

As he mentioned in HIS trip to Europe...

...might also be mentioned that he ALSO didn't visit wounded troops...

But of course that's all on the up-and-up, and Obama's a dirty whore who's only in it for the publicity, right?

spin, spin sugar...

oh wait, how strong is the euro against the doller these days?

How irrelevant is that and how much does that display your ignorance of how you define the power of a country? The Mexican Peso is 10 times as valuable as the Japanese Yen, does that mean Mexico is stronger than Japan?

Oh, come on, you should know better than that... you're being amazingly dishonest here, and you know it. He's not talking about direct comparisons, but about change in ratios over the last few months (at least I hope so). And yet, here you are trying to say that because one currency is worth more than another... ahh, even from you, this is low and disappointing.

Out-of-context comparisons mean nothing. Change in comparison ratios over time... that's where the import lies, and there's no way you can deny that the dollar is weak right now.

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At 7/28/08 06:31 PM, Ravariel wrote:

At 7/28/08 06:05 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: I'd rather not have a president who bases almost his entire candidacy on calculated, disingenuous political maneuvers yet who has no real substance whatsoever.

Then I'm afraid you will be forever disappointed by whoever gets elected.

Nope.

If you think McCain is any less opportunistic or politically underhanded, you're displaying an uncharacteristic amount of naivete...

No, all politicians running for elections will be opportunistic. But McCain does have substance in my observation, he has experience and he tends to be way, way more detailed and specific about things than Obama. There are no epic, glorious, yet empty speeches about intangible crap that Obama has.

or are just blinded by your hate of anything "left" of you... it's hard to tell.

It's hard to tell if Obama even is left of me, considering how much he flip flops.

his ability to create emotionally charged political rants that don't really say anything specific, but just make feeble minded people quiver with excitement. He has no substance, he is incredibly vague about everything and the majority of people who support him cannot mention a single accurate fact to explain why, either that or they believe that the US under Obama will be weaker.

Sometimes the ability to simply motivate the population into action is all that is needed to effect positive... dare I say it... change.

Lol, "change" has become one of the most meaningless words ever.

Obama and his supporters can say "change" all they want, but Obama has not done much to elaborate on that, and many of his supporters apparently don't care about what the change entails, or even if there really will be change aside from the facade itself of the president.

In fact, "change" is a good word actually, under a separate interpretation. Not that he'll change much in the country or the world, but the fact that he himself constantly changes his positions off and on. Such as on Iraq.

Someone could have the best, most detailed, plans in existence, but if he can't motivate people to act on them, then what use are they?

Motivate to act on them by... voting for him/her? How is Obama going to motivate people to do things other than vote for him?

Someone can have the most emotionally-charged, awe-inspiring speeches, and the most mindlessly loyal and bright-eyed followers. But as long as that person has no substance, and never elaborates on what exactly he or she will do, the followers are being pretty damn irresponsible for supporting such a superficial candidate.

No, it's called turning the race into a infantile popularity contest with people who can't even vote for the president.

Again: absentee ballots.

Um, what? Germans can't vote for the US president, and frankly I'm pretty sure most Americans don't gauge the quality of a candidate based on what Germans think about him (excluding of course the mindless idiots that already support Obama anyway).

And another thing: if you think that any presidential contest in recent memory hasn't been an "infantile popularity contest", then you're sadly mistaken.

If that's your stance, and you're so ready to accept it... that explains the irrationality in a lot of your other views.

Had Kerry been an iota more charismatic than a block of mahogany, he would have won easily...

No, had John Kerry been less of a flip-flopper, and been less of a raging anti-war liberal, he may have won. Had he been seen as stronger on defense and didn't get swiftboated, he may have won.

Sorry to break it to you, but the presidency isn't won on issues, it's won on charisma... always.

Except not. If that were true then political parties wouldn't have any sway on the election. People would vote across party lines way more than they do.

And the thing is, the US already has allies in Europe. Germany specifically already is a US ally, and McCain can and will cooperate with them.

As he mentioned in HIS trip to Europe...

Um, that article you linked to references some future trip (from that time) to the Middle East and Europe. Meanwhile, in that article it says that Mccain only talked to leaders of France and the UK in Europe. What exactly did he say in HIS trip to Europe?

He apparently didn't have a speech trying to woo British or French people. He had a diplomatic meeting and nothing else.

...might also be mentioned that he ALSO didn't visit wounded troops...

McCain didn't go to Germany on that trip. Nor had he planned on visiting troops at Landstuhl. That's quite different from what Obama did, which was already have it planned within his already planned trip to Germany, but then back out when he was told he couldn't bring campaign staff and cameras along with him.

spin, spin sugar...

Keep using inapplicable comparisons, honey.

How irrelevant is that and how much does that display your ignorance of how you define the power of a country? The Mexican Peso is 10 times as valuable as the Japanese Yen, does that mean Mexico is stronger than Japan?

Oh, come on, you should know better than that... you're being amazingly dishonest here

ahahaha! Coming from you?

He's not talking about direct comparisons, but about change in ratios over the last few months (at least I hope so)

Lol keep parading your ignorance.

He was comparing the value of currencies to suggest one country is stronger than the other, not just in economics. The fact that you're suggesting he compared it only over the last few months - which would be even more irrelevant when comparing the strengths of countries - in the fashion he did, is pretty hilarious.

And yet, here you are trying to say that because one currency is worth more than another...

No, HE was trying to say that one currency being more valuable than the other implies or indicates a difference in strength of the countries, and that the value of a country's currency indicates is directly reflective of its strengths as a whole, when that's not always true, and certainly not true in this case.

Let's recap what he said:

At 7/28/08 11:45 AM, smidge111 wrote: eurotrash?? EUROTRASH?? appeasing the so called trash is called making and maintaining allies. this is something both candidates would have to do as a president. unless you'd rather take on the "terrorists" by yourself because as we've all so easily forgotten America is a wonderful and lovely country full of power and might and sure the trash might as well just bow down now.

oh wait, how strong is the euro against the doller these days? obama went to Germany because he had to. fact. if you dont like it, tough.

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He was talking about currency value in the context of the strengths of countries as a whole, after referencing fighting terrorism, and he then said that Obama had to meet Europeans as if this is due to the differing currency values, basically alluding that the US has to suck up to Europe because of it.

Of course, it's probably too much to ask someone like you to actually learn to read and think.

ahh, even from you, this is low and disappointing.

You really have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. And the fact that you're so eager to create intentionally dishonest stances is not a new low at all actually, it's not disappointing because your prior behavior doesn't exactly set the bar high.

Out-of-context comparisons mean nothing. Change in comparison ratios over time... that's where the import lies, and there's no way you can deny that the dollar is weak right now.

It is weak right now, from a number of factors. That doesn't mean however, that Europe is stronger than the US, or that the US is weaker than Europe in the fashion that he said it was.

"Hey, you can't fight terrorism without our help and need to suck up to us because our currency is higher than yours!"

That's essentially what he said. Now, either you intentionally ignored this because it was inconvenient for the hilariously retarded argument you wanted to make, or you actually think what he thinks.

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At 7/28/08 10:45 AM, physicsman09 wrote:

At 7/28/08 10:04 AM, defencereview wrote: I cannot beleive how much republicans go out of the way just to make him look bad. Seriously, some people actually want world peace. I cannot understand why you wan't to kill every living soul not in america.

So let me get this straight.

You believe that Republicans want to kill everyone who isn't American?

Well then you are officially a liberal hippie sack of shit moron who falls for liberal propoganda because he's a gullible dipshit.

Please try to prevent yourself from generalizing; I'm not sure if it was you or someone else who said that they don't think all Liberals are hippies. Anyway, I'm a Liberal but I listen to both sides and not propaganda from either side.

Republicans (myself included) believe that the President of the United States of America should govern the United States of America, he shouldn't pander to the ungrateful European countries that will find some reason to hate us no matter what we do.

Name some of these ungrateful European countries(I'm not being facetious) and I don't think these countries hate America as a whole in so much as they dislike the President.

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No, all politicians running for elections will be opportunistic. But McCain does have substance in my observation, he has experience and he tends to be way, way more detailed and specific about things than Obama. There are no epic, glorious, yet empty speeches about intangible crap that Obama has.

I liked him better when he wasn't pandering to every idiot in sight, but that's the nature of the game.....

And just because I'm already responding to this part, switch "like" for "that" in the last sentence. Think that's what you were goin for.

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Cellardoor6, what is it about Germany's policies that make them retarded? I figured I should ask someone who's been in Germany rather than search the web for possibly false information.

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At 7/28/08 07:38 PM, Imperator wrote:

No, all politicians running for elections will be opportunistic. But McCain does have substance in my observation, he has experience and he tends to be way, way more detailed and specific about things than Obama. There are no epic, glorious, yet empty speeches about intangible crap that Obama has.

I liked him better when he wasn't pandering to every idiot in sight

Obama or Mccain? I don't think McCain panders to everyone. He obviously isn't going to attack or neglect entire demographics of people, but I think he takes [most of] his stances pretty consistently and solidly.

Obama does more pandering than anyone else. His positions, especially on Iraq, change with every group he talks to. And that should be a little scary because he has managed to take the exact opposite positions on each aspect of Iraq, multiple times. What exactly is he going to do? Nobody can answer that.

Some say he's going to pull a Hail Mary, withdrawing everyone as rapidly as possible and fuck the consequences. He leads many to believe that is what he'll do. Other's say he's going to reduce combat troops, but maintain a strike force to combat terrorism there and that this will automatically mean no more Iraq war for us there, only light anti-terrorist activity and embassy duty. Funny though, there is footage of him contradicting both, over and over again.

And just because I'm already responding to this part, switch "like" for "that" in the last sentence. Think that's what you were goin for.

"That" sounds a little weird, but they both work.

Bite me, next.

At 7/28/08 07:47 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: Cellardoor6, what is it about Germany's policies that make them retarded?

Well aside from my principal objection to much of their government policies, I was talking about their political views in general; every day political sentiments.

The typical young, liberal Germans that you see in the crowd at Obama's speech are highly, highly ignorant. Most young Germans absolutely despise the US at the very core of their entire view of the world. They have a fierce hatred for Americans and assume a myriad of completely false assumptions from the beginning. Anti-Americanism is status quo, it simply cannot be questioned, it is completely ingrained into their culture.

Germans refuse to acknowledge how much their country owes the US. The US rebuilt their country free of charge, provided for Germans who were trapped in eastern Germany, gave economic support and military support to Germany for decades without asking for a single dime in return. Some Germans are completely unaware that even happened. And they are just as quick to say that the Soviet Union was a better force for good in the world than the US, even though the Soviets raped and killed millions of Germans and kept them captive in East Germany for decades.

Germans believe, as an undeniable fact, that US capitalism is evil and that their socialist system is better. They believe the most asinine propaganda that like the majority of Americans are dying because they don't have healthcare.

Young Germans blame the US for every evil in the world, almost as a knee-jerk reaction. This is for things that THEIR country does, such as engage in sanctions against North Korea or Iran, they will attribute as evil and will blame only the US, leaving their country and everyone else's completely out of the equation. They will say that the sanctions are evil and cause innocent people to be punished and that this is all America's fault.

Germans think all Americans are racist, even though racism, in my observation, is completely way, way more rampant there than it is here. Germans believe that blacks are completely oppressed by white Americans, and that all minorities are the target of continued and malevolent racism and inequality. Any minority, including me, who says otherwise will be completely ignored.

Germans will often mention that Americans killed Indians as if this is proof that America is evil. They completely block out from their minds what happened in the holocaust, and if you bring it up they will suggest that you're an ignorant asshole for doing so, as if the holocaust is off limits, and can never in anyway be used to criticize Germany's history... but they can say that Americans are all slave-owning, Indian slaying cowboys, all they want.

There are many, many more things.

But the major point is that Germans have a very narrow, very agenda-driven view of the world, they blame the US for everything, they have enormous double standards, they have absolutely no gratitude, they take several things that are American for granted (like music, movies, TV, video games, technology such as microwaves, computers, the internet etc...) yet then feel confident in saying that the very existence of the US is a mar on the human race.

There are some Germans that are different, not all of them are this ignorant. But this political mindset is so widespread, so fierce and unquestioned among the majority of young Germans, it's depressing.

That's part of the reason that I'm not impressed, AT ALL, that Obama got such a large crowd in Germany. I think its a testament AGAINST Obama, considering the views Germans have... the fact that they love and adore him so much shows you something.

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At 7/28/08 08:57 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

The typical young, liberal Germans that you see in the crowd at Obama's speech are highly, highly ignorant. Most young Germans absolutely despise the US at the very core of their entire view of the world. They have a fierce hatred for Americans and assume a myriad of completely false assumptions from the beginning. Anti-Americanism is status quo, it simply cannot be questioned, it is completely ingrained into their culture.

The false assumptions are perpetuated by the media because the media in every country emphasizes the bad and almost never the good because bad news receives more ratings than good news. When's the last time you saw an intellectually inspiring video or report that received more views than a wild fire or robbery?

Germans refuse to acknowledge how much their country owes the US. The US rebuilt their country free of charge, provided for Germans who were trapped in eastern Germany, gave economic support and military support to Germany for decades without asking for a single dime in return. Some Germans are completely unaware that even happened. And they are just as quick to say that the Soviet Union was a better force for good in the world than the US, even though the Soviets raped and killed millions of Germans and kept them captive in East Germany for decades.

I can't argue with you there, but any country that nurses another back to health should know better than to expect reciprocation. Maybe the U.S, should start putting it's foot down and speak up.

Germans believe, as an undeniable fact, that US capitalism is evil and that their socialist system is better. They believe the most asinine propaganda that like the majority of Americans are dying because they don't have healthcare.

Again, this is a media-driven issue.

Young Germans blame the US for every evil in the world, almost as a knee-jerk reaction. This is for things that THEIR country does, such as engage in sanctions against North Korea or Iran, they will attribute as evil and will blame only the US, leaving their country and everyone else's completely out of the equation. They will say that the sanctions are evil and cause innocent people to be punished and that this is all America's fault.

Like you said, young and naive.

Germans think all Americans are racist, even though racism, in my observation, is completely way, way more rampant there than it is here. Germans believe that blacks are completely oppressed by white Americans, and that all minorities are the target of continued and malevolent racism and inequality. Any minority, including me, who says otherwise will be completely ignored.

All Americans? That's a pretty bold claim. In your observation, yes, but unfourtunately it may not translate as fact. The media here isn't helping stop the belief that all minorities are being oppressed.

Germans will often mention that Americans killed Indians as if this is proof that America is evil. They completely block out from their minds what happened in the holocaust, and if you bring it up they will suggest that you're an ignorant asshole for doing so, as if the holocaust is off limits, and can never in anyway be used to criticize Germany's history... but they can say that Americans are all slave-owning, Indian slaying cowboys, all they want.

Now now, cellardoor6, I beleive both countries are at fault here. Americans don't really like bringing up the killings of Native Americans and Germans don't like bringing up the Holocaust; both are very touchy issues. However, both events in my opinion shouldn't be ignored, but should be discussed with less emphasis because today's young Germans were not involved in the Holocaust and it's the same with today's Americans with Native Americans and slavery. It's not very fair to bring it up to criticize a country if the current generation had no part.

But the major point is that Germans have a very narrow, very agenda-driven view of the world, they blame the US for everything, they have enormous double standards, they have absolutely no gratitude, they take several things that are American for granted (like music, movies, TV, video games, technology such as microwaves, computers, the internet etc...) yet then feel confident in saying that the very existence of the US is a mar on the human race.

Lol, why do you say they take it for granted? Do not all developed countries use this technology?

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At 7/28/08 09:21 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: The false assumptions are perpetuated by the media

Yes. It's not just their media though it's even their education system.

I can't argue with you there, but any country that nurses another back to health should know better than to expect reciprocation.

But the US should expect for this to at least not be completely erased from history as if it never happened in the very eyes of the people who benefited from it.

In my experience, only the older Germans that actually experienced and remember Germany before the fall of the Berlin wall, actually have any gratitude.

Maybe the U.S, should start putting it's foot down and speak up.

Um... how?

"Hey, we demand that you acknowledge we helped you, otherwise... we're not buying beamers anymore."

Again, this is a media-driven issue.

It's not just their media. It's an established "fact" (in their eyes) and it's a result of their media, their education, and the official stances of their government and most of the political parties in Germany.

Like you said, young and naive.

And it's young and naive people usually that support Obama, that's part of my point here.

All Americans? That's a pretty bold claim.

And they (Germans) are the ones that make that claim.

Now now, cellardoor6, I beleive both countries are at fault here. Americans don't really like bringing up the killings of Native Americans and Germans don't like bringing up the Holocaust; both are very touchy issues.

Except they are very different in both scope and context of the actual events, as well as how they are treated in our societies. The killing of the Indians was not some massive calculated genocide. The Indians did plenty of killing of innocent people, the Americans that killed Indians were not all under one command with the intent of doing it, and many Americans got along quite well with Indians. So the issue is quite different.

Lol, why do you say they take it for granted? Do not all developed countries use this technology?

That's the thing. They benefit from American technology in their daily lives. They also listen to American music, watch american TV and movies, and just generally benefit from the US. The idiocy of their belief system is that they take all these things from America for granted, and then proceed to claim with confidence that America is the world's greatest evil, that all Americans are dumb and talentless, and that America should never have existed.

Now this isn't exclusive among Germans, but they will use an American website (like youtube or NG or whatever), using the internet, which was invented by Americans, using almost certainly an American computer (PC or Mac, both American computer architectures), running American software, and they have the audacity to use these things to claim these things about America... they don't even think about how fucking hilariously delusional that is.

Now, just about everything I said also applies to the youth in many countries, but the German situation is way more notable to me because I've experienced it in depth, and Germany has benefited so much from and owes so much to the US, it's like... cosmic levels of ignorance.

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At 7/28/08 09:48 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

Now, just about everything I said also applies to the youth in many countries, but the German situation is way more notable to me because I've experienced it in depth, and Germany has benefited so much from and owes so much to the US, it's like... cosmic levels of ignorance.

So if you experienced it in depth with another country and not Germany, you'd probably say the same things? Also, it's clear, as you've pointed out, that the youth today don't know their history. Wisdom comes with age, remember that. I know it's depressing, but as they get older they'll hopefully realize that it is indeed very wise to listen to the experience of one's elders. I can't say that I haven't felt how they feel at least once in my life (I'm currently 18) but I try and get the facts straight. The older Germans deserve gratitude because they've actually been there. Experience is the best teacher, yes it's a cliche but it's true. I believe in giving credit where credit is due, but to hold on to this notion that every country is somehow in debt to the United States(based on our discussion regarding technology) is somewhat, in my opinion, silly. That's what we get for being the Global Police, as, I believe, Teddy Roosevelt said we are(correct me if I'm wrong). I understand where you're coming from, or trying my best to, anyway. Now, about your comment on how it's a "fact" in their education system. I'm never going to go against your experience, but it never mentions is U.S. history books EVERYTHING that went down during our affairs with the rest of the world. Remember, history is written by the winners.