What the hell is wrong with this?

[Koriigahn]

"Listening to this I was amazed... Then the part of my brain i wish I could turn off started up. It told me: Theres no way this was sequenced on a computer... must be hardware... Then it mentioned: hardware and dnb mixed= vinyl (or samples).

Vinyl (or samples) are in my mind a cheap way out of the artistry of music seeing as your spinning (or sampling) something you havent made.

I'd love to think you sequenced this song and have all the artistry/sound design to make such a great song but I'd be lying to myself, thus the lower score. Anyone can arrange a song, but to COMPOSE a song is completely different.

I like it... but part of me (a large part) doesnt...

5/10

Try to experiment a little."

This review was made on my song [Astatome] from one, SoundAlchemy. I have replied to his review with this:

"What?

Seriously what the fuck?

This song is made with Fl studio 8. It has about 4 samples in it, in which are from VEHS (Vengeance essential House) All of the samples that I've used, even though there wasn't even that many have all been payed for, and/or been approved for use. I've spent the last 3 months on this song, and for christ's sake just because you THINK i didn't make it, which is obviously what your implying i have the .FLP ready to show to anyone that doesn't believe me on this.

"Vinyl (or samples) are in my mind a cheap way out of the artistry of music seeing as your spinning (or sampling) something you havent made."

Not one part of this song is sampled, aside from the obvious Voice sample (Which i have actually gone completely out of my way to use by contacted the writers of the Show its from)

"hardware and dnb mixed"

Want to know what my set-up is?

Fl studio 8. THATS IT. I've never actually touched a mixer, aside form the one that comes with Fl, with is SOFTWARE.

"I'd love to think you sequenced this song and have all the artistry/sound design to make such a great song"

The proof is right here. You just listened to it. And just because you can't make anything better, and can't handle the fact that someone can make better music than you, How dare you review a piece of music, that i have placed all of my heart and soul into, and say i have made a song that is "A cheap way out of the artistry of music" and making false statements about my work as an Audio Artist.

I'm am well and truly pissed off."

Comments?

[Koriigahn]

Apologies for the Double post, but here's the link to the song:

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1 59601

[Bjra]

if that wasn't sampled. well nice work lol.

can i ask what vst was used for the dirty bass?

[Koriigahn]

3x OSC.

I'm willing to post screenshots and isolate the bass track and send it to you.

[Bjra]

cubase aint got no 3x osc >:(

[snayk]

Awesome song. I fived it :)

Sucky review; I would be upset as well. I suggest marking it as abusive (which I have), because he basically accused you of breaking NG rules.

[Koriigahn]

Thanks man, it's just when you put so much effort into a song (Which i'm sure you have done before) :)
It's VERY frustrating to see it get Zero Bombed, or get reviews such as this one.

[YunVeroz]

Quoting the reviewer:
"Vinyl (or samples) are in my mind a cheap way out of the artistry of music seeing as your spinning (or sampling) something you havent made."

There are so many things wrong with that statement, I don't even want to get into it. To be brief, it's one thing if you just take a song and add a drum loop on top of it. It's a whole 'nother ball game if you start sampling 4 or 5 different records to create a fusion or medley that brings a whole new perspective for the listener to enjoy. That's where the art in it can be found.

[SoundAlchemy]

Boo hoo.. Whatever...

If its abusive to make an assumption then I guess I'm guilty as charged. Look, take the whole review as a compliment: I was basically saying that the song was so well put together I didnt thing YOU MADE IT.

Do what you will, as well all have assholes and opinions.

Dont get mad cause you got bad criticism, it happens to best of artists.

I've been producing music for 14 years now and I've gotten my fair share of praise and hate. If you take it to heart then you become a slave to an others opinion.

I'm sorry I put a sour spot in yer stomach but get over it dude.

Sincerely,
The guy who is being accused of something or other for having an opinion.

[snayk]

At 7/21/08 11:44 AM, Koriigahn wrote: Thanks man, it's just when you put so much effort into a song (Which i'm sure you have done before) :)
It's VERY frustrating to see it get Zero Bombed, or get reviews such as this one.

Believe me, I understand. I actually find bad reviews a lot more frustrating than zero voters, because reviewers actually (supposedly) take the time to listen to your song and tell you what they think is shitty about it, whereas zero voters have always been around and I'm just kind of used to them.

Don't let it get to you. Eventually the review will be (hehe) reviewed and probably deleted.

On that note, I think I'll go check out some of your other stuff because you've got an awesome track there :)

Oh wait, I just stumbled upon this:

At 7/21/08 11:53 AM, SoundAlchemy wrote: If its abusive to make an assumption then I guess I'm guilty as charged. Look, take the whole review as a compliment: I was basically saying that the song was so well put together I didnt thing YOU MADE IT.

It IS abusive to make an assumption that the author didn't create the song. If you believe that is the case, you should notify an audio mod about it.

Dont get mad cause you got bad criticism, it happens to best of artists.

He didn't get bad criticism; you accused him of not composing his own music :/

I'm sorry I put a sour spot in yer stomach but get over it dude.

I'm sure he will soon enough. I doubt, even with your 14 years of experience with music, you wouldn't be upset if someone accused you of compiling someone else's work when you invested time and emotion composing a song.

[speedmetalmessiah]

At 7/21/08 11:40 AM, Bjra wrote: cubase aint got no 3x osc >:(

You should be able to use Rewire and route FL into Cubase.

[Chronamut]

At 7/21/08 12:18 PM, speedmetalmessiah wrote:

At 7/21/08 11:40 AM, Bjra wrote: cubase aint got no 3x osc >:(

You should be able to use Rewire and route FL into Cubase.

you can. you can routfe fl into cubase, as well into reason - you can have all three running. RageVI used to do it -dunno if he does anymore.

And I listened to your song - I love that bass man - and as a testiment to all - yes you CAN make amazing stuff in fl that actually sounds BETTER than hardware - it all depends on how you EQ it. My glistle song - the percussion was actually made with fl presets thatr I fucked up beyond all recognition so that they sounded cool - it was an experiemnt on my part to show others that you can take what fl has and make it cool - as long as you don't just use the plain bread and butter they give you.

[LiquidEvolution]

At 7/21/08 12:42 PM, Chronamut wrote: And I listened to your song - I love that bass man - and as a testiment to all - yes you CAN make amazing stuff in fl that actually sounds BETTER than hardware - it all depends on how you EQ it. My glistle song - the percussion was actually made with fl presets thatr I fucked up beyond all recognition so that they sounded cool - it was an experiemnt on my part to show others that you can take what fl has and make it cool - as long as you don't just use the plain bread and butter they give you.

Not only that. Basically, in the entirety of the electronica genre (and all it's sub-genres) there's too many artists to name that use premade samples. Sure, there are probably some who make the sounds themselves but alot depend on premade stuff for percs and what-not. Really, a sample would be nothing without an artist, no matter who originally created it. This guy said "It takes a real artist to COMPOSE music" or something along those lines right? Well, technically, you still are composing if you're using samples, I mean. You have to compose those various samples into a beat. Sure there are loop holes (drum-loops for instance) but really, even if you do use samples. There is still a level of composing that goes into it.

[Koriigahn]

These are the screenshots for all those who requested them:

The bass:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/287/5 2680462wf6.png

The 'misc' Tab on the bass:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6165/
74553224ef7.png

Link it to a mixer track, and add the following effects:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8518/
48449865ai9.png

The first VST can be downloaded here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/878.html

(Free)

And the second effect on the bass is Blood Overdrive.

What you can also do is play around with the sound waves on the first OSC of the bass, you can get a different sound out of them all.

[p4c]

At 7/21/08 11:53 AM, SoundAlchemy wrote: Boo hoo.. Whatever...

dude, ur whole review was stupid lol. vinyls are definately not taking other ppls work for your own, if uve been making music for that long i would expect that you would know this [especially since computer-based musical software was barely coming into existence that long ago]. if ur making music with vinyls, you sure as fuck better be mixing stuff together, cutting, splicing, etc. the average loop sampler n00b didn't have the equipment to fart out loops that long ago, and even now, its pretty obvious that the drum loop he made was not just presampled. Ive never heard anything of that quality or with that kind of effects processing on a random loop, and he throws in a bunch of variation here and there subtly that you really wouldnt get on a premade loop.

and if you have been making music for 14 years, then u must have sucked for a really long time, because that song isnt so impossible to make on a computer as you say. come on, now. the technicality of the song really isnt that mind-boggling, its just pretty well produced, and if was working on a 2 minute loop as long as koriigahn was, even i could probably do it too and ive only worked on music for 2 years [alas, i am not motivated enough to make music consistently, and i keep not finishing songs... whatever :\ ].

though im not going to doubt ur experience. i looked thru ur music posted here and its mildly interesting in some glitch aspects. ill believe you [for now, at least]. do you know why? im not an arrogant asshole. btw, i love you <3 <3 :)

[DzGuy]

At 7/21/08 11:53 AM, SoundAlchemy wrote: Dont get mad cause you got bad criticism, it happens to best of artists.

Your review wasn't criticism. You accused him of something he didn't even do. (which you claimed he sampled the whole song.)

[Bad-Man-Incorporated]

Using samples whether you paid for them or not still violates submission rules. :P

But also, you failed to mention the other review, the same person left on another song of yours. It was glowing, and your response was blessing his "knowledge". But I don't see a whole thread created on the positivity this site yields. Here, and I quote (copy and paste)

"I cant take it back now."

by: SoundAlchemy
date: July 19, 2008

I dont often give 10's... This is infact my first...

This piece is a perfect rainy day song, or perhaps a song to listen to while in retrospect. The spacious reverb and the high quality piano is like candy to the ears.

The drums get across a struggle within; very urban! Love the syncopation in the the sequencing :-)

Keep up the awesome work! 10/10

July 19, 2008
Author's Response:

Thank you so much!

It's great to get a review that's as instant, and as knowledgeable as yours, especially when most of the other artists have some really good pieces of music.

Thanks again!

- Conor

>:(

[Koriigahn]

At 7/21/08 07:50 PM, Bad-Man-Incorporated wrote: Using samples whether you paid for them or not still violates submission rules. :P

Yet more or less every single artist on this site uses them. I can't really think of one Trance artist on this site that hasn't touched a sample, or feasted their eyes on the big juicy treat we all call VECS.
(Mmm Tasty)

But also, you failed to mention the other review, the same person left on another song of yours. It was glowing, and your response was blessing his "knowledge". But I don't see a whole thread created on the positivity this site yields. Here, and I quote (copy and paste)

Yes I do know about that review, but the fact of the matter is that he accused me of something that's was false, and regardless of a review he made about one of my songs beforehand, it was wrong, and a person jumping to conclusions of a matter such as this one is in my part, pretty offensive.

I'm not trying to start an argument, and I'm not trying to make enemies (Too late now I guess) But all I'm trying to point out is that this person has made false, abusive claims against my own music and I think that my audio deserves better than that.

[revexe]

Do you have any idea of how many threads would be here if everyone started a thread bitching about a bad review?

Shut the fuck up and live with it.

[Envy]

How do you define things as a premade sample?

Technically your guitar, drum set, any instrument you buy is someone elses sample. So technically, NOTHING is allowed on this site for submission. A drum set is simply a large sample that you bought using someone elses already created sounds put into a drumset for you. Unless you cut down the trees yourself and make the drums yourself, youre using someone elses samples...

I think what the rules mean by samples is loops essentially... Otherwise consider me banned for using VEC drum samples and I'll take my stuff elsewhere.

[Bad-Man-Incorporated]

At 7/21/08 08:01 PM, Koriigahn wrote:

At 7/21/08 07:50 PM, Bad-Man-Incorporated wrote: Using samples whether you paid for them or not still violates submission rules. :P

Yet more or less every single artist on this site uses them. I can't really think of one Trance artist on this site that hasn't touched a sample, or feasted their eyes on the big juicy treat we all call VECS.

, and a person jumping to conclusions of a matter such as this one is in my part, pretty offensive.

I know about the sampling. That is a whole other topic. I apologize for making a reference there without providing a Link.

Yes, and accusing people of stealing/ etc...is against the rules as well, so the review won't be there much longer

I'm not trying to start an argument, and I'm not trying to make enemies (Too late now I guess) But all I'm trying to point out is that this person has made false, abusive claims against my own music and I think that my audio deserves better than that.

Flag it as abusive...as it has been. Enough flags like that and it will disappear. I'm not your enemy, I just don't see a reason to post like this. Gotta take the good with the bad. It happens.
You should put the link to the review here

[DSMagnum]

At 7/21/08 07:50 PM, Bad-Man-Incorporated wrote: Using samples whether you paid for them or not still violates submission rules. :P

Show me the rule that says this. Or at least define what you mean by samples.

[DarKsidE555]

Ooooh Rucklo...*whistles* here boy! *whistles*

God damn son! Lock down alreadyz lololololz! >:(

[Kr1z]

I gotta agree some reviewers are biatches.

[MJTTOMB]

This thread is a pathetic self-advertisement attempt in disguise. everyone gets less-than-positive reviews. Get over it, you're no more special than anyone else.

[Koriigahn]

At 7/22/08 06:38 AM, MJTTOMB wrote: This thread is a pathetic self-advertisement attempt in disguise. everyone gets less-than-positive reviews. Get over it, you're no more special than anyone else.

And with that i request Rucklo for CockLock.

[DarKsidE555]

At 7/22/08 08:50 AM, Koriigahn wrote:

At 7/22/08 06:38 AM, MJTTOMB wrote: This thread is a pathetic self-advertisement attempt in disguise. everyone gets less-than-positive reviews. Get over it, you're no more special than anyone else.

And with that i request Rucklo for CockLock.

This is truly ironic and amusing at the same time.

[chucktownbluv]

People like the one that posted that review piss me off more than anything. How DARE you tell someone they're less of a musician because he doesn't feature live instruments in his songs. Get the fuck out of here, dipshit.

[snayk]

At 7/22/08 12:18 PM, chucktownbluv wrote: People like the one that posted that review piss me off more than anything. How DARE you tell someone they're less of a musician because he doesn't feature live instruments in his songs. Get the fuck out of here, dipshit.

I think you misunderstood. He wasn't giving a low score because of synthesizers, programmed drums and/or lack of live instruments, he was giving a low score because he believed the song wasn't completely composed by the OP; he assumed it was just a collection of samples the author arranged.

[chucktownbluv]

At 7/22/08 12:41 PM, snayk wrote: I think you misunderstood. He wasn't giving a low score because of synthesizers, programmed drums and/or lack of live instruments, he was giving a low score because he believed the song wasn't completely composed by the OP; he assumed it was just a collection of samples the author arranged.

Oh.

:my bad :-P