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Poxpower: why do millions of people claim to see UFOs?

The odds are on the positive that one of those reports isn't fake. AT LEAST one.

And if a race could invent gravity drives, I'm pretty sure they could hide themselves perfectly.

Come on.

I agree with you for the most part tho

Oh, and we CAN create Gravity Drives. Scientiests in Britain have invented a device that creates one millionth of a Gravity.

At 7/19/08 05:31 AM, Blackhawkdown wrote:

What you said perfectly points out why we might be the oldest race, the first sentient life,

Right now it seems a lot more likely that space travel isn't possible than us being the first ever/only race to have evolved such intelligence.

But it's really impossible to tell with a sample of just one solar system.

At 7/19/08 01:53 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: Poxpower: why do millions of people claim to see UFOs?

The same reason millions of people think miracles exist.

The odds are on the positive that one of those reports isn't fake. AT LEAST one.

No. I can tell a quadrillion lies about anyone I want, doesn't mean there's a certain percentage that has to be true.

They don't have a shred of evidence.

At 7/19/08 01:53 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: The odds are on the positive that one of those reports isn't fake. AT LEAST one.

they may not be fake but assuming that you have just seen a sentient being's interstellar craft because you witnessed some flashing lights in the sky is an odd conclusion to come to.

There is about one percent that ARE 'aliens', so to speak. If you want me to explain it to send me a pm, because I really do not feel like bringing it into the discussion, it is a bit off topic.

At 7/18/08 07:09 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 7/18/08 06:42 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

Unless they become so advanced that they create gravity drives.

Right but then they would be here by now.

How did you come to that conclusion so confidently? How would the existence of interstellar/intergalactic travel automatically mean that whoever/whatever had it would be here by now?

You're not thinking about all the possibilities... maybe it just got invented recently? What if the creatures who developed it have no desire to come in contact with others? What if the universe is so huge that even trillions of alien civilizations all with intergalactic travel could travel forever and ever and never come in contact with anyone else? There's a whole host of possibilities that you're not even trying to consider.

However for all you know they could have already come here, they could be here right now. You can't say "if there were aliens who could do this, we'd know about them, therefore it's not true".

I'm not saying that there HAS to be aliens. I'm not saying that they definitely have the ability to travel here from across the galaxy/universe, I'm just saying that it's very possible. Suggesting it's impossible and summing it all up as "this means this, therefore it doesn't exist" is depressingly narrow-minded.

I'm just saying his conclusion is stupid since there's way too many things we don't know about the universe yet to say what the chances are of them getting here by now are.

And given how little we know about the universe, how small we are... it's stupid to suggest that there are no aliens, and that there can't be aliens just because we don't have direct knowledge of them.

One thing I heard a lot from scientists is that it's most likely impossible for humans to ever go faster than the speed of light

According to the laws of physics, it is impossible to travel faster than the speed of light within the 3 spatial dimensions and the half dimension of time we exist in (for us, time is only a half-dimension because it can only go forward). But there are ways of getting around it, as I mentioned. If gravity-drives and rips in spacetime were created, something or someone wouldn't have to go faster than the speed of light to get somewhere in an amount of time that would normally require speeds exceeding lightspeed.

Think of it this way:

Say that you're in a two-story building. You're on one side of the house, and on the other side is a stairway. You want to get to the room below you in say... 5 seconds. Normally to get to that room you'd have to run all the way across 2nd floor, down the stairs, and across the bottom floor... basically running the length of the building twice, plus the steps of the stairs. This would be impossible to do in 5 seconds. The only way to get to the room below you in that time would be to go through the floor. If you had the tools to cut a hole in the floor, you'd have the ability to do something that in normal circumstances would be physically impossible.

Think about it, you wouldn't need to go the speed that would normally be required but is impossible, because you mitigated distance and speed limitation as obstacles. You circumvented the laws of the universe in your own tiny, little way.

Now, humans know that if the technology was there, this kind of travel in the universe would be possible. We know that teleportation exists in the universe and is not impossible, we've done it at the subatomic scale. If we advance enough, we can negate the laws of physics as limitations further. Instead of having to travel the spatial distance from our point of departure to our destination, we could cut a hole in spacetime, travel through at a leisurely speed, and appear possibly millions of light-years away in a short trip.

Now, your argument against this can be countered by my former analogy about cutting a hole in a floor. You're basically arguing that since it's not possible for us right now to bend spacetime and create rips in the proverbial floor of the universe big enough for us to squeeze through, it never will be possible. This is tantamount to a caveman saying that it's impossible for someone to cut through the floor and drop below, when his understanding of the universe is limited to fucking, pooping and poking big scary monsters with sharp sticks. The caveman has no understanding of what an electric saw is, just as you and I (and humans as a whole) don't have understanding of whatever future technology may be developed to rip holes through the the fabric of space-time.

Like you hear about wormholes and all that, but that's shit that can only send like one light particle back 5 seconds in time.

But we know now, for a fact, that teleportation is not impossible. We don't know if we'll ever be able to apply it at the scale required to travel the universe, but we know that there is some way to do it. We know it can be done, we just don't know how to do it.

So I'm pretty skeptical, but hey if it ever works out, cool.

Anyways, we know there's no aliens here now

That sounds a whole lot like something an alien would say...

Pox...

LOL

They've been looking for signals with that SETI thing for over 30 years now and they haven't found anything, so yeah it doesn't bode well.

Are you aware of how GIGANTIC the universe is? Some scientists believe that the universe doesn't even have a finite size, there is no end and never will be an end to it. The visible universe to us, as large as it is, is only an infinitesimally small part of it all.

It's not surprising at all that we haven't found something in 30 years.

Allow me use yet another brilliant analogy:

I looked for Green Curry paste in my local supermarket today. I couldn't find it in the 10 minutes I was there. According to you, my inability to find Green Curry paste doesn't bode well for the existence of Thai food in the universe.

At 7/19/08 10:33 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:
How did you come to that conclusion so confidently?

It's just pure maths.
Evolution works on a geological timescale. If we had been focused on science to begin with, we probably could have gone from monkey to right now in just 5000 years.
That's nothing. The chances of any race in the universe evolving at exactly the same time and being the only other ones to do so are really really really really tiny.

Most likely they evolved to intelligence millions of years before we ever did.

And yeah, it's possible that they just didn't find us, but it's a lot more possible that they can't reach us. Think about it. If you can surpass the speed of light, then who knows what kind of crazy tech they have for surveying planets?
I doubt it would take them very long to map out the entire galaxy.

However for all you know they could have already come here, they could be here right now.

there's just 0 evidence, the probabilities point to what I said.

But there are ways of getting around it, as I mentioned. If gravity-drives and rips in spacetime were created

ok did you ever actually read anything serious about this or is that something you heard about on some tv show?
Because everything I've ever heard points to "there's no way in hell that humans can even match the speed of light".

And even if we did, it would still take us thousands, if not millions of years to reach other civilizations. When taking into consideration the size of the universe, light moves pretty slow :o

I've heard all the wormhole stuff, I've never once heard a physicist say "yeah I can see us traveling through them".
All I heard was "yeah given impossibly ridiculous amount of energy, we might make one molecule travel a couple centimeters".

I get the analogies, I get the explanation, but I never saw anyone show it was possible. As far as I know, this stuff is like the perpetual motion machine.

But if you have anything that you've read, I'll check it.

Are you aware of how GIGANTIC the universe is? Some scientists believe that the universe doesn't even have a finite size, there is no end and never will be an end to it. The visible universe to us, as large as it is, is only an infinitesimally small part of it all.

We can see all the universe actually. That's how they measured the age of it, by looking at the light at the far end of it, 14 billion light years away :o
Anyways, if we do find something with SETI, it's sort of disappointing because it means all the aliens could do was send a wild signal somewhere randomly in outer space with the hopes that it would reach someone.

Doesn't sound like the kind of aliens from StarGate. Sounds more like us.

Anyways no one's saying there's no aliens FOR SURE 100% FO SHIZZLE, but come on. Not a single shred of evidence? And all the explanations are "cover-ups" and "mysterious technologies".
That's just the hallmarks of a conspiracy theory, that's all that is. If you want to believe, there's nothing I can say to change your mind because you've made the aliens out to have infinite technological prowess, so they can always find an answer to my claims.

But as it stands, there's not even one particle of material from them, not a picture, nothing. All the science we have point to a bleak spaceless future for the human race.

Sorry.

Well, since the topic kind of switched to Aliens, I think I should share what the smartest man I have ever met said his opinion on UFO's are.

When I asked him about it, he said that a small percent of UFO sightings are actully aliens, but not traditional aliens from other planets, but alternate forms of us from another universe. He said that in a parallel universe, we developed much much earlier that this one, and discovered the technology to travel between universes at will. They also DO look like the 'Greys' because of how they evolved differently from us in their universe, but we both go back to the same origin of life.

The reason they do not make contact is because since there are an infinite amount of alternate universes, what would be the point of making contact with ours, specifically? Think of it this way. The average human sees about a thousand people a day. If you were an alien, what would be the point of stopping every person you saw and learning their life story? It would be extremely time consuming, and if you were either A. Trying to get somewhere specific, or B. Are exploring the area, completely pointless.

The whole 'Anal Probe' issue is their way of navigation. They use the DNA they extract from us to know which universe they are in. Their version of Humanity has a different kind of DNA then ours, and so do all of the other universes they travel to so that DNA type is specific to that universe. They use it as a kind of address to be able to travel effectively where they want.

At 7/20/08 02:23 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: the smartest man I have ever met said his opinion on UFO's are.

Can you please kick him in the balls to make sure that he never spawns children?
And where do you live? Alabama?

holy crap.

At 7/20/08 02:23 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: The whole 'Anal Probe' issue is their way of navigation. They use the DNA they extract from us to know which universe they are in.

;;;
Alright...let's just say for shits & giggles , your "friend" is right.
You do not need to anally probe someone/ anyone to get a DNA sample.
Sure you can do it that way...but all you have to do is pull out a single hair, with a folicule on it and VOILA your DNA sample.
Now my "friend " thinks the anal probing is just for the fun of it with a small bit of science....seeing how far you can get it up there!

Sick Batards....(& yes I deliberately spelled Bastard wrong)

At 7/20/08 02:38 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 7/20/08 02:23 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: the smartest man I have ever met said his opinion on UFO's are.

Can you please kick him in the balls to make sure that he never spawns children?
And where do you live? Alabama?

holy crap.

Ha Ha. He already has a daughter...

I live in Cleveland, and he was my Physics and Earth Science teacher, and I stand by his opinion.

I have no idea what he was doing teaching in MY school, he should have been a professor

At 7/20/08 02:46 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote:

I live in Cleveland, and he was my Physics and Earth Science teacher, and I stand by his opinion.

Does he by any chance have a really really long beard, graying hair, dirty clothes and 5 teeth missing? And is your school "the street near the 7-11"?

But seriously, he had a drug addiction, I'm like 90% sure.

At 7/20/08 03:02 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 7/20/08 02:46 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote:

I live in Cleveland, and he was my Physics and Earth Science teacher, and I stand by his opinion.

Does he by any chance have a really really long beard, graying hair, dirty clothes and 5 teeth missing? And is your school "the street near the 7-11"?

But seriously, he had a drug addiction, I'm like 90% sure.

Nope, but he is a GIant of a man. It was him that made me learn the meaning of 'Big Boned'.
He would have been a linebacker had he been faster.

At 7/20/08 02:23 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: Well, since the topic kind of switched to Aliens, I think I should share what the smartest man I have ever met said his opinion on UFO's are.

It is extremely likely that you have met men who are exponentially smarter than the one you describe here. To make up for the (I'll be polite) "creative" ideas explained below, this guy would have had to be the founder of the method of generating any and all prime numbers.

When I asked him about it, he said that a small percent of UFO sightings are actully aliens, but not traditional aliens from other planets, but alternate forms of us from another universe. He said that in a parallel universe, we developed much much earlier that this one, and discovered the technology to travel between universes at will. They also DO look like the 'Greys' because of how they evolved differently from us in their universe, but we both go back to the same origin of life.

This is written as if he is explaining to you the way something IS, not as a theory of the way something MIGHT BE. This should have been your first clue that his story may not be quite on the level. I'll be forgiving and grant the possibility that this is merely the way you are explaining it to us and not the way it was explained to you. Given that, isn't it suspicious that an alternate universe would, by definition and logic, not posses the same origin of life as our own? If these (alternate) beings shared our seed of life. then that would require that our universes were once one and the same and at some point (which would have had to be very far along in the evolutionary process) the universes split from one another and became separate. This opens up a whole new can of worms, but culminates in the logic that even if that were the case, then it would also follow that so many more universes would have developed similarly (perhaps infinitely so) that being visited by one, or a mere handful, or a mere tens of billions of them would be even less likely than being completely overwhelmed by the volume of visitations. If one universe developed that technology, then it goes to follow that several (and likely billions of billions and more) of them did so as well. Then, why would they all look like Greys? Shouldn't some of them look like something else? It becomes an infinite regress that only makes the matter more ridiculous.

The reason they do not make contact is because since there are an infinite amount of alternate universes, what would be the point of making contact with ours, specifically? Think of it this way. The average human sees about a thousand people a day. If you were an alien, what would be the point of stopping every person you saw and learning their life story? It would be extremely time consuming, and if you were either A. Trying to get somewhere specific, or B. Are exploring the area, completely pointless.

If I were to bother to pay a visit to someone's house, I would be likely to communicate with the person who lives there. Granted, there may be reasons why I would not, but given the typical circumstances, it is likely that most people would do the same. My point is that the argument of "why bother" is not a completely invalid reasoning, but it is another shred of evidence that does more to damage the credibility of the story than support it.

The whole 'Anal Probe' issue is their way of navigation. They use the DNA they extract from us to know which universe they are in. Their version of Humanity has a different kind of DNA then ours, and so do all of the other universes they travel to so that DNA type is specific to that universe. They use it as a kind of address to be able to travel effectively where they want.

As explained by other posts, an anal probe is such an inefficient method of gaining genetic evidence that it is a laughable theory for why the said visitors would do it.

And now comes the part where you say, "I was only being sarcastic and it was just misread on the forum because sarcasm does not translate in posts very well." ;)

At 7/20/08 03:05 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote:

Nope, but he is a GIant of a man. It was him that made me learn the meaning of 'Big Boned'.
He would have been a linebacker had he been faster.

So he was hit on the head a lot then...
Makes sense.

p.s. bookmark this and come back here in 5 years, you'll laugh your ass off, I swear.

Well, I am starting to see doubt in his argument, even though I did explain it a tad differently than he did.
He would get into the habit of answering all of these questions with fantastical answers, and we would be so astounded by them that we forgot to ask for his reasoning, and we never had a question he could not answer so we were always thinking about what he told us, not his logic behind it.

At 7/19/08 03:45 PM, poxpower wrote:
The same reason millions of people think miracles exist.

Not really. UFO sightings are physical, miracles are usually intentional shows.

Think about what UFO stands for.

No. I can tell a quadrillion lies about anyone I want, doesn't mean there's a certain percentage that has to be true.

Of course all the lies you tell would be lies. You're also one person. The probability with these reports is again completely different.

They don't have a shred of evidence.

The reports themselves : |

Again. Unidentified Flying Object

I don't make the claim that these people have seen aliens, I make the logical conclusion that some of them have most likely seen something that they thought was a UFO.

You know. There wouldn't be reports. Someone just didn't make that idea up one day "oh I think I'll say I saw this thing, everyone will think I'm crazy but I'll stick to my story anyway, I'll be ostracized from my community and laughed at, but I'LL STILL DO IT FOR NO REASON."

Way to not answer the parts where I make a solid point too. Like you always do.

Steven Hawking even comments on the idea that we are the only beings in the universe thus far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZkyRl5Ir eM&feature=related

At 7/19/08 03:20 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: Oh, and we CAN create Gravity Drives. Scientiests in Britain have invented a device that creates one millionth of a Gravity.

That's a rich. "One millionth of a gravity." Because gravity is a fixed measurement.

Lies

Assuming that we are the first sentient life out there seems quite stuck-up. Contrary to what Pox said, we can't even see the entire universe because the edges are so far away. So I doubt that we could accurately measure the odds of sentient life out there. Not to mention, the life that develops does not have to be human-like. The 75 parameter thing is an adaptation of the standard Drake equation, because the original had too few parameters. But the 75 version has far too many. It seems to think that the planet would NEED seasons, NEED tides, and NEED huge jovian planets on the outskirts to develop sentient life. Sure, all those things help, but there are certainly substitutions for most of them, and others are flatly unnecessary.

Pox, the we measure the age by looking at the edges of the OBSERVABLE universe, there are still things that haven't had enough time to reach us. :)

At 7/22/08 05:25 PM, The-evil-bucket wrote: That's a rich. "One millionth of a gravity." Because gravity is a fixed measurement.

...it is...

Small g and big G are two different things (intimately related but different), by the way.

At 7/31/08 12:35 AM, BetaOrionis wrote: Assuming that we are the first sentient life out there seems quite stuck-up. Contrary to what Pox said, we can't even see the entire universe because the edges are so far away. So I doubt that we could accurately measure the odds of sentient life out there. Not to mention, the life that develops does not have to be human-like. The 75 parameter thing is an adaptation of the standard Drake equation, because the original had too few parameters. But the 75 version has far too many. It seems to think that the planet would NEED seasons, NEED tides, and NEED huge jovian planets on the outskirts to develop sentient life. Sure, all those things help, but there are certainly substitutions for most of them, and others are flatly unnecessary.

Just to add a small note, we would never see the edge of the universe because we are in it.

I'm just guessing, but if we could see unobstructed far enough off into space, we'd either see absolutely nothing, because there has not been enough time for light off of Earth to travel to the end of the universe and back to us, or we'd see over 150 billion years into the past.

At 7/31/08 01:19 AM, Christopherr wrote:

At 7/31/08 12:35 AM, BetaOrionis wrote: Assuming that we are the first sentient life out there seems quite stuck-up. Contrary to what Pox said, we can't even see the entire universe because the edges are so far away. So I doubt that we could accurately measure the odds of sentient life out there. Not to mention, the life that develops does not have to be human-like. The 75 parameter thing is an adaptation of the standard Drake equation, because the original had too few parameters. But the 75 version has far too many. It seems to think that the planet would NEED seasons, NEED tides, and NEED huge jovian planets on the outskirts to develop sentient life. Sure, all those things help, but there are certainly substitutions for most of them, and others are flatly unnecessary.

Just to add a small note, we would never see the edge of the universe because we are in it.

Well, the universe has no definitive edge, as far as we know.

I'm just guessing, but if we could see unobstructed far enough off into space, we'd either see absolutely nothing, because there has not been enough time for light off of Earth to travel to the end of the universe and back to us, or we'd see over 150 billion years into the past.

First, light would not have to start at earth and go there first. Stars emit light and that light only needs to reach us for us to see it. But it is true that if the unobstructed object is more light years away than years that exist, we will see nothing. As for seeing back in time, to a degree, that is true. When the crab nebula exploded, back in Ceasars time, Ceasar saw it, but the star that exploded had actually exploded many years prior to Ceasar seeing it. When you see a star at night, you are seeing it as it WAS at the time that the light reaching you left it. Some of the stars that you see at night no longer exist, but we won't know about it until the light reaches us.

Considering the vast distance between us and the nearest solar system and the low possibility of life occuring on one it is likely that there is an interstellar civilisation somewhere, but they are so far away they are unlikely to reach us let alone find us any time soon.

At 7/17/08 08:17 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: ... in our universe. I have came to the conclusion that we are the first sentient race in our universe. The Universe is roughly 13.73 billion years, with an uncertainty of about 120 million years. That is an INCREDIBLY small numver when you think about it. I mean, in comparison to our lives, that is very long, but that is only compared to OUR lives. Judging by everything else that is an extremely short time span.

Actually there is no exidence that the universe is even over 6000 years old, judging by actual physical characteristics of our planets, stars n moons we can come to the conclusion that the existance of the universe, time and space came a certain amount of time ago.

I wont get into the big ass details about it but take our moon for one example, it is moving away from our planet about 4 inches per year, if it were so that our planet is so old we wouldn't have a moon anymore n our oceans would become stagnant, we have also confirmed that the moon is not apart of our planet due to significant mineral and geographic differences, there aren't very many craters on the moon either, you see pictures of one side n most likely the side that got hit alot more, what does that mean?
It means the moon indicates there were many or maybe just one or a couple, meteors or even comets that crashed into or very near us, which in fact is believe to have aused the global flood and the Ice age burieing and freazing the millions of plants and animals that we dig of in fossils and ice.

So I'll comment on the overall topic name, it isn't certain that we are the first of anything, just because we are alone on this planet n maybe even the universe, we have no idea what is out there.
But because we are here and we exist concludes that this univers is not empty, we see other universes through scopes, why should they be any different from us?

The Earth is 4.54 billion years old. That is roughly one third the age of the Universe. Now, given the short time frame that a planet has to develop life before the Earth, and the odds of it even forming correctly, or the infinite possibility of some random disaster snuffing it out in it's adolescence, it is EXTREMELY hard for me to believe that a species has gained sentience before us, or even that it is MORE advanced than us.

There is always this idea that makes me happy every time I think of it. WE are the 'Old Ones' that are always spoken of as being the protigenators of the younger races of the universe. Space Oddyssy 2001, Lovecraft books, and endledd amounts of other literature speak of a more advanced race that helps younger races prosper.

Then, there is the relative small amount of time that our race has had sentience, which also makes me excited because that means that each and every one of you are influencing the course of the Universe, right now.

There are only 6.68 billion people on earth. That is such a small number, meaning that if you have half a brain, and you have atleast two children, you will be the ancestor of millions within a small amount of time if all of your children have two children each.

So, in conclusion. Pick your mate wisely, and be proud to be Human.

At 7/31/08 02:15 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Actually there is no exidence that the universe is even over 6000 years old, j

WRONG

WRONG

WRONG

Stop your lying bullshit.

What next, you don't believe in gravity?