We are the first sentient beings...

[Seatbeltnazi]

... in our universe. I have came to the conclusion that we are the first sentient race in our universe. The Universe is roughly 13.73 billion years, with an uncertainty of about 120 million years. That is an INCREDIBLY small numver when you think about it. I mean, in comparison to our lives, that is very long, but that is only compared to OUR lives. Judging by everything else that is an extremely short time span.

The Earth is 4.54 billion years old. That is roughly one third the age of the Universe. Now, given the short time frame that a planet has to develop life before the Earth, and the odds of it even forming correctly, or the infinite possibility of some random disaster snuffing it out in it's adolescence, it is EXTREMELY hard for me to believe that a species has gained sentience before us, or even that it is MORE advanced than us.

There is always this idea that makes me happy every time I think of it. WE are the 'Old Ones' that are always spoken of as being the protigenators of the younger races of the universe. Space Oddyssy 2001, Lovecraft books, and endledd amounts of other literature speak of a more advanced race that helps younger races prosper.

Then, there is the relative small amount of time that our race has had sentience, which also makes me excited because that means that each and every one of you are influencing the course of the Universe, right now.

There are only 6.68 billion people on earth. That is such a small number, meaning that if you have half a brain, and you have atleast two children, you will be the ancestor of millions within a small amount of time if all of your children have two children each.

So, in conclusion. Pick your mate wisely, and be proud to be Human.

[animehater]

At 7/17/08 08:17 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: and be proud to be Human.

Now That's what I'm talking about. I always said Humanity was the master race of the Universe, and now someone agrees with me. Now let's get our tech on, get off this rock of a Planet, and ensure our immortality.

[SolInvictus]

the earth may be a third the age of the universe, but the evolution that to what makes us human is fairly recent. there is nothing that made it impossible for sentience to evolve before a certain time, so the fact that it did not develop in dinosaurs, or anything else, is simply pure chance.
we also don't know what are the other possible combinations that can create and house life and it is likely our brain structures are not the only structures capable of creating sentience.

[Christopherr]

We're also probably the only sentient beings in the universe.

Physicists have determined that the maximum number of planets that could possibly exist in the universe numbers around 1^24. The 75 parameters for the possibility of life, each with their own probability of being in the required range, work out to give about a 1^-98 chance of a single planet being able to sustain life.

Even if you multiply this probability of having one planet sustain life by the absolute maximum number of planets to get the possibility of ANY planet being able to sustain life is about 1^-74... Making Earth a freak coincidence or a divine happening, whichever you want to believe.

[CIX]

Sounds something exactly what a Nazi would say. WE ARE THE MASTER RACE

[Christopherr]

At 7/17/08 08:57 PM, CIX wrote: Sounds something exactly what a Nazi would say. WE ARE THE MASTER RACE

Species. Master species. Which we are.

[animehater]

At 7/17/08 08:57 PM, CIX wrote: Sounds something exactly what a Nazi would say. WE ARE THE MASTER RACE

Yeah, but Nazis for the Human race.

[Seatbeltnazi]

At 7/17/08 09:02 PM, Christopherr wrote:

At 7/17/08 08:57 PM, CIX wrote: Sounds something exactly what a Nazi would say. WE ARE THE MASTER RACE

Species. Master species. Which we are.

Exactly. And the one thing that has me most excited is the Technological singularity, and that ensures our survival or demise, depending on how we treat them...

[rainbowsaregay56]

At 7/17/08 09:02 PM, Christopherr wrote:

At 7/17/08 08:57 PM, CIX wrote: Sounds something exactly what a Nazi would say. WE ARE THE MASTER RACE

Species. Master species. Which we are.

Unless we find some race that totally ass rapes us.
But that's what we all don't think exists
woot humans

[Elfer]

At 7/17/08 08:52 PM, Christopherr wrote: We're also probably the only sentient beings in the universe.

Physicists have determined that the maximum number of planets that could possibly exist in the universe numbers around 1^24. The 75 parameters for the possibility of life, each with their own probability of being in the required range, work out to give about a 1^-98 chance of a single planet being able to sustain life.

First of all, what are those 75 parameters, and are they a necessity for life in general, or human life specifically?

[SmilezRoyale]

Woah ego-trip here...

Any good science person knows that our creation was by dumb luck, and to no merit of our own.

[Christopherr]

At 7/17/08 10:19 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 7/17/08 08:52 PM, Christopherr wrote: We're also probably the only sentient beings in the universe.

Physicists have determined that the maximum number of planets that could possibly exist in the universe numbers around 1^24. The 75 parameters for the possibility of life, each with their own probability of being in the required range, work out to give about a 1^-98 chance of a single planet being able to sustain life.

First of all, what are those 75 parameters, and are they a necessity for life in general, or human life specifically?

Sorry, I only have the old notes from the lecture and a spreadsheet of all the parameters on an external hard drive back home (I'm on vacation right now). I just remember the numbers.

They weren't parameters for human life necessarily, but parameters for any significant form of life comparable to Earth. The conditions were things such as being within a proper range of an energy source.

They weren't the most accurate, but the real parameters were more complex and yielded an even smaller possibility of a planet able to sustain life comparable to Earth's.

[SolInvictus]

At 7/17/08 10:41 PM, Christopherr wrote: They weren't the most accurate, but the real parameters were more complex and yielded an even smaller possibility of a planet able to sustain life comparable to Earth's.

the problem is we're basing this on what we know is required for forms of life similar to those found here.

also, what exactly does being first get us? when did the universe become an online thread.

FIRST! oh wait, they still have bigger guns than us...

[uhnoesanoob]

Yeah, screw those inferior aliens.

[Elfer]

At 7/17/08 10:41 PM, Christopherr wrote: They weren't the most accurate, but the real parameters were more complex and yielded an even smaller possibility of a planet able to sustain life comparable to Earth's.

Well, that's an odd assumption. Obviously life on a different planet would adapt to the specific environment in which it exists.

I'd really have to take a look at the information myself to make a proper review of it.

[morefngdbs]

At 7/17/08 10:47 PM, uhnoesanoob wrote: Yeah, screw those inferior aliens.

;;;
So a few here are convinced that we are the only sentient life...I'm glad you used sentient, instead of intelligent, to describe earth's life forms.
So we are completely unsire about intelligent life out there;;;;;
If you look at the state of much of this planet, there doesn't appear to be much intelligence down here at all either !

[Christopherr]

At 7/17/08 10:55 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 7/17/08 10:41 PM, Christopherr wrote: They weren't the most accurate, but the real parameters were more complex and yielded an even smaller possibility of a planet able to sustain life comparable to Earth's.

Well, that's an odd assumption. Obviously life on a different planet would adapt to the specific environment in which it exists.

The parameters were the ranges at which any life could possibly survive in. They weren't set values, but very broad ranges...

[Ravariel]

At 7/17/08 08:52 PM, Christopherr wrote: number of planets that could exist in the universe 1^24... about a 1^-98 chance of a single planet being able to sustain life.

You realize that 1^24 and 1^-98 both = 1, right?

... just sayin'... should be more careful with your equations. 1*10^24 and 1*10^-98 are the correct numerations.

And you do realize that one of your 75 paramaters for life must be the existance of planets... thus the number you originally posts has no comparable value when considering the second (because one is a factor of the other, through 74 other variables). Saying that because the likelihood of life existing is near 0, because the number of possible planests is smaller than the probability when it's a FACTOR of that probability is intellectually dishonest... or you simply misinterpreted the data.

Also...

[poxpower]

Either that OR space travel is not possible faster than the speed of light, hence no alien civilization could ever reach us to tell us about themselves.

That's all we can know as there's not enough data to know what the chances of intelligent life evolving really are. I don't think we could ever know without surveying thousands of planets across the stars.

[cellardoor6]

At 7/18/08 06:09 AM, poxpower wrote: Either that OR space travel is not possible faster than the speed of light, hence no alien civilization could ever reach us to tell us about themselves.

Unless they become so advanced that they create gravity drives. If they did this they could bend space-time to make two points that are distant (the point of departure, and the destination; earth) exist simultaneously in almost the same space, then create a miniature black hole to break through the boundary of space time and simply simply travel through without having to even approach the speed of light.

Science has loopholes. What I said is very possible according to human understanding of the laws of physics. The question is whether or not intelligent life will advance to the point that they/we could manipulate the laws of physics that way, and act upon that understanding of science. We know it can be done, we just don't know how to do it. Given how fucking amazing and wacky some of the science that's going down right now is, I'm surprised people think that it is such a far-fetched idea.

[poxpower]

At 7/18/08 06:42 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

Unless they become so advanced that they create gravity drives.

Right but then they would be here by now.

I'm just saying his conclusion is stupid since there's way too many things we don't know about the universe yet to say what the chances are of them getting here by now are.

One thing I heard a lot from scientists is that it's most likely impossible for humans to ever go faster than the speed of light or to travel back in time.
Like you hear about wormholes and all that, but that's shit that can only send like one light particle back 5 seconds in time.
So I'm pretty skeptical, but hey if it ever works out, cool.

Anyways, we know there's no aliens here now so there's not that many different conclusions you can draw from it.

like:

- they don't care about us
- they can't reach us because it's not technologically possible
- they haven't found us because there's too many planets
- they don't exist/ are dead
- they're somehow hiding themselves perfectly while boning lonely women and putting things in redneck's asses.

there's not that many more possibilities.

They've been looking for signals with that SETI thing for over 30 years now and they haven't found anything, so yeah it doesn't bode well.

It's also sort of like that thing were we know time travel isn't ever going to be possible, because if it was then people would have come back in time by now. Of course if you want to believe then you always have the "they're hiding perfectly" excuse which works for 100% of everything you want to imagine.

[Elfer]

At 7/17/08 11:19 PM, Christopherr wrote:

At 7/17/08 10:55 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 7/17/08 10:41 PM, Christopherr wrote: They weren't the most accurate, but the real parameters were more complex and yielded an even smaller possibility of a planet able to sustain life comparable to Earth's.

Well, that's an odd assumption. Obviously life on a different planet would adapt to the specific environment in which it exists.

The parameters were the ranges at which any life could possibly survive in. They weren't set values, but very broad ranges...

Right, that's why I say I'd need to see them. 75 seems like a lot of requisite qualities, and the end result seems like a pretty low probability estimate for each.

[Christopherr]

At 7/18/08 05:43 AM, Ravariel wrote:

I forgot to put an E instead of that...

It was like 3 in the morning, forgive me.

[SolInvictus]

apparently scientists are now very close to determining whether or not Earth has a sister planet in another solar system.

[JackPhantasm]

That's a good spin. We are the ancient race.

But what are you juxtaposing this against?

[CousinIt]

Spetember 11th?

That ruined the whole video for me.

they spelled September wrong.

[Blackhawkdown]

At 7/18/08 07:09 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 7/18/08 06:42 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

Unless they become so advanced that they create gravity drives.

Right but then they would be here by now.

I'm just saying his conclusion is stupid since there's way too many things we don't know about the universe yet to say what the chances are of them getting here by now are.

One thing I heard a lot from scientists is that it's most likely impossible for humans to ever go faster than the speed of light or to travel back in time.
Like you hear about wormholes and all that, but that's shit that can only send like one light particle back 5 seconds in time.
So I'm pretty skeptical, but hey if it ever works out, cool.

Anyways, we know there's no aliens here now so there's not that many different conclusions you can draw from it.

like:

- they don't care about us
- they can't reach us because it's not technologically possible
- they haven't found us because there's too many planets
- they don't exist/ are dead
- they're somehow hiding themselves perfectly while boning lonely women and putting things in redneck's asses.

there's not that many more possibilities.

They've been looking for signals with that SETI thing for over 30 years now and they haven't found anything, so yeah it doesn't bode well.

It's also sort of like that thing were we know time travel isn't ever going to be possible, because if it was then people would have come back in time by now. Of course if you want to believe then you always have the "they're hiding perfectly" excuse which works for 100% of everything you want to imagine.

What you said perfectly points out why we might be the oldest race, the first sentient life,
the race that will go and spread out among the stars and visit other planets just beginning they're evolutionary journey. It's exciting to think that we may be the most advanced lifeforms in the universe, it's also a little bit of a bore as well; going off this theory I really can't expect for an alien race to show up at some point in my lifetime and give earth science a huge boost.

On the subject of Time Travel. I something along the lines of you create one "wormhole" (or whatever the scientific name for it is) and another wormhole connected to the first. Speed up the first wormhole to the speed of light, wait however many years or whatever, stop the first wormhole and there you go portal to the past. Is this still theoretically feasible or did they come up with something new as of late. And granted yes you can only travel as far back as when you created the wormholes.

[IETFB]

This '75 parameter' equation sounds like an over exaggeration of the Drake equation, which only has 7.
The Drake equation estimates the number of civilisations in the Galaxy, and current estimates put the number at 2.3.
You can read all about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equat ion

Estimates by the Hubble Space Telescope suggest there are roughly 125 billion galaxies in our universe.Assuming other galaxies use similar numbers to our own, we find there may be around 300 billion civilisations in our universe.

It's possible we're the first, but with a number that high it's very, very unlikely. You only need a world without all the mass extinctions we keep running into on this planet, and they've got a head start on us of millions of years.

[The-evil-bucket]

I think there is plenty of possibility that a massive galaxy spanning civilization could have risen and fallen long before we crawled out of the ocean.

[Seatbeltnazi]

At 7/19/08 01:04 AM, CousinIt wrote: Spetember 11th?

That ruined the whole video for me.

they spelled September wrong.

Wrong thread.