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I don't believe that the bible should be taken literally. I'm not claiming that what the bible is saying is true or false because I don't believe it to be a historical record. I believe it's a collection of parables. Now, I'm not claiming that to be a fact, I'm just saying that's what I believe.
The bible is nothing more than poetry.
If we permit ourselves to conceive the right ideas of things, we must necessarily affix the idea, not only of unchangeableness, but of utter impossibility of any change taking place, by any means or accident whatever, in that which we would honour with the name of the word of God, and therefore the word of God cannot exist in any written or humans language.
Thomas Paine.
The Age Of Reason 1896.

But the bible is filled with contradictions and parts are missing, and it shouldn't be taken literally and blah blah blah. So it's difficult either way.

That would be correct. Look at the order in which the books are written. The book of revelation was written during the time of John. But yet it is the last book in the bible. I can point out a lot of inaccuracies.

I have not killed anyone yet over it. But I have sent some people to the hospital over it.
OMG VIOLENT SCARY!!! Sounds like there's a story here...
That was when I was a teenager. I lived with my cousin who was an elder in a church A Presbyterian. I spend 10 months arguing with her about the falseness of what she believed in. When I told her that I was intersexed she down right just could not believe that god would ever create someone like that. She did everything she could to convince me and herself that there was no such thing. She just was unable to believe that people like me existed and that god not Satan created us. to this day she thinks i am one pof satans children.

At 11/3/09 11:52 PM, gamer30hrplus wrote: That was when I was a teenager. I lived with my cousin who was an elder in a church A Presbyterian. I spend 10 months arguing with her about the falseness of what she believed in. When I told her that I was intersexed she down right just could not believe that god would ever create someone like that. She did everything she could to convince me and herself that there was no such thing. She just was unable to believe that people like me existed and that god not Satan created us. to this day she thinks i am one of satans children.

To be honest, I don't think you should have been trying to convince her about the falseness of what she believed in. People should be allowed to have whatever personal beliefs they want.

But I think it's horrible that she didn't believe people like you existed and that you were made by Satan, which means you're shit since you're not even good enough to be one of God's Special Children like her. She sounds like a total bitch, and that must have made you feel pretty bad.
I think the situation you were in makes it more understandable that you would lash out violently in anger. It's not like you were just having a discussion with a random person that turned violent. This family tension is just the thing that would be a catalyst leading to physical violence.

But I think it's horrible that she didn't believe people like you existed and that you were made by Satan, which means you're shit since you're not even good enough to be one of God's Special Children like her. She sounds like a total bitch, and that must have made you feel pretty bad.
I think the situation you were in makes it more understandable that you would lash out violently in anger. It's not like you were just having a discussion with a random person that turned violent. This family tension is just the thing that would be a catalyst leading to physical violence.

I barely talk to my family cause of it. I barely talk to my grandmother. i guess trying to prove to her that not everything she believes to be true is. Sometimes you gotta look at the past and the evidence in order to believe that something is truth not lies. That is all i was trying to do. But in the end all it got me was well your family but that does not mean that we have to admit it or anything else.

At 11/4/09 12:03 AM, Sensationalism wrote:

To be honest, I don't think you should have been trying to convince her about the falseness of what she believed in. People should be allowed to have whatever personal beliefs they want.

I sit on the fence with that one. While I agree with you on allowing people to have whatever beliefs they want, I feel that sometimes those beliefs may just get forced onto their kids or close family anyway.

At 11/4/09 12:11 AM, TheRadicalOne wrote:

At 11/4/09 12:03 AM, Sensationalism wrote:

To be honest, I don't think you should have been trying to convince her about the falseness of what she believed in. People should be allowed to have whatever personal beliefs they want.

I sit on the fence with that one. While I agree with you on allowing people to have whatever beliefs they want, I feel that sometimes those beliefs may just get forced onto their kids or close family anyway.

That is so true. It is like a law somewhere were if you do not go to church you are evil. everywhere you look i see crosses. i have no problem with someone believing in what they want but once you start making me belive in them or make me go to chruch then i get tempermental.

Just a few weeks ago, Obama signed a hate crime bill that expanded the definition of hate crimes to include crimes committed due to sexual orientation.

So, this means that this country wasn't willing to protect LGBTQ individuals from physical violence until the end of October, 2009? This isn't even about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. It's about the safety of individuals. It's ridiculous. But, better late than never.

At 11/4/09 12:03 AM, Sensationalism wrote: I think the situation you were in makes it more understandable that you would lash out violently in anger. It's not like you were just having a discussion with a random person that turned violent. This family tension is just the thing that would be a catalyst leading to physical violence.

I don't think anything should be solved with physical violence because there's no logic or reason in violence. Violence won't resolve an issue, make amends, create a compromise, create understanding and empathy, or work out a problem in any way. It may effectively vent your anger, but that's only a short term reward, and only for one side. It just makes the other side angrier and will result in further consequences. In my eyes, the only situation where it would be acceptable to use violence is if your cousin physically attacked you first. In that case, it's self defense. But, otherwise, violence does more hard than good.

If you had walked away peacefully from that situation accepting that you didn't have a way at that point to get through to your cousin, you would have been the bigger person. If she thinks you're the child of Satan (which is ridiculous), then violence is just going to reinforce her belief.

At 11/4/09 02:44 PM, InsertFunnyUserName wrote: I don't think anything should be solved with physical violence because there's no logic or reason in violence. Violence won't resolve an issue, make amends, create a compromise, create understanding and empathy, or work out a problem in any way. It may effectively vent your anger, but that's only a short term reward, and only for one side. It just makes the other side angrier and will result in further consequences. In my eyes, the only situation where it would be acceptable to use violence is if your cousin physically attacked you first. In that case, it's self defense. But, otherwise, violence does more hard than good.

I don't think anything should be solved with physical violence either. I'm just saying I can understand why she would lash out violently as a result from the stress and pressure. Not saying it's right, but it happens. We're only human.

At 11/4/09 02:48 PM, Sensationalism wrote: I don't think anything should be solved with physical violence either. I'm just saying I can understand why she would lash out violently as a result from the stress and pressure. Not saying it's right, but it happens. We're only human.

Yeah, it's definitely understandable.

At 11/4/09 02:48 PM, Sensationalism wrote: I don't think anything should be solved with physical violence either. I'm just saying I can understand why she would lash out violently as a result from the stress and pressure. Not saying it's right, but it happens. We're only human.

Eh, things shouldn't be solved, but sometimes there is no other way at all.

If you had walked away peacefully from that situation accepting that you didn't have a way at that point to get through to your cousin, you would have been the bigger person. If she thinks you're the child of Satan (which is ridiculous), then violence is just going to reinforce her belief.

You ever live with someone that does whatever to convince you that Christianity is right and you are wrong? I never got physical with her. We just argued about it. In her mind if i did not bend to her christian ways she was going to hell and so was i. So as soon as i woke up in the morning she was on me. Almost every day for 10 months it was like that. I had no car to go anywhere. The only peace i had from her was when i was working for her husband. He owns an excavating and hualing company. Otherwise me and her went at it for like 3 hours a day on average cause of the fact, if you were not a christian you were going to hell and i guess she was doing what she believed to be the right thing to do "to save me". Just because i do not believe in a religion and cause of my sex she thinks i am going to hell. WHAT FN BS. SHe just started acting like religious freak 7 years ago. Before that she did not really care about it.

I understand that it was a bad situation for you, but my viewpoint remains the same.

At 11/4/09 08:23 PM, gamer30hrplus wrote: I never got physical with her.

I thought you said you put her "in the hospital?"

I thought you said you put her "in the hospital?"

No i put others in the hospital. That was back when i was a christian. I was like under 13 then. I was under the belief that anyone that said anything against you or bad about your family. BEat the hell outa them in the name of god cause if you did not then you were a bad seed. As soon as i actually read the bible and started paying attention in church i found out how much BS was being preached. I was a history person since i could remember. I will forever believe in a history book over any religion or a person that goes to church and i will never believe ever word of someone that goes to church as the turth.

At 11/4/09 09:14 PM, gamer30hrplus wrote:

I thought you said you put her "in the hospital?"

No i put others in the hospital. That was back when i was a christian. I was like under 13 then. I was under the belief that anyone that said anything against you or bad about your family. BEat the hell outa them in the name of god cause if you did not then you were a bad seed.

Ah, okay. The way you replied to sensationalism made it sound like your cousin was the one you put in the hospital.

As soon as i actually read the bible and started paying attention in church i found out how much BS was being preached. I was a history person since i could remember. I will forever believe in a history book over any religion or a person that goes to church and i will never believe ever word of someone that goes to church as the turth.

It can't be said that all of religion is false because there's no way to prove or disprove god and in many churches (at least where I am), the bible stories are taught as parables and not facts. The pastor of the church that I go took took our youth group to the Boston science museum where we watched a presentation on the origins of the universe. So, don't assume that the belief system of everyone who has strong religious beliefs is completely flawed, as it seems like you are.

It can't be said that all of religion is false because there's no way to prove or disprove god and in many churches (at least where I am), the bible stories are taught as parables and not facts. The pastor of the church that I go took took our youth group to the Boston science museum where we watched a presentation on the origins of the universe. So, don't assume that the belief system of everyone who has strong religious beliefs is completely flawed, as it seems like you are.

Can god be proven?
Can history and science prove that god exists?
So far no. So until Science and history prove that God made us. Then no i will not believe in the fundementals of religion. From wht i am hearing from you is believe in god or else. You seem to be attacking me rather then listening to my side. You sound just like many other christians. I believe in the truth and you never will. Same old sad pathic story. I have heard it all my life. The fact still remains that religion is a myth nothing more. If they knew that back in the 1700's why still believe in something that can be disproven as fundementally wrong?
The christian Thoery is little else then the idoltary of the ancient mythologists, accommodated to the purposes of power, and revenue and yet remains to reason and philosophy to abolish the amphibious fruad.
For the belief of the one comes from the vote of the other.
Thomas Paine The Age Of Reason.
Let me guess you believe that Jesus Christ was the first Christian?

This is a gay/bi club and I feel like we've gone way off topic discussing religion like this. There's an Atheist Army club thing and probably some other clubs that this would be better suited for.

It seems as you, gamer, have only come into contact with the disagreeable religious people. There are all kinds. Some are awesome, some are horrible. It's more dependent on the individual than on their religion.

It's nice to have different perspectives from different people. Nobody knows the answer for sure, that's why it's so nice to hear what everyone has to say. :3

Maine voted to not allow gay marriage.
What a blow.
Domestic partnership is still legal though.
http://www.365gay.com/news/defeat-in-mai ne-a-harsh-blow-to-gay-marriage-drive/
That is sad.
Altought there is a win in N.C. Chapel hill elected a gay mayor on tuesday.
http://www.365gay.com/news/chapel-hill-n c-elects-gay-mayor/

Yes! Yes we did it! We stopped the gays from getting married!

Such an emotional moment. *sniff*

At 11/5/09 12:50 AM, gamer30hrplus wrote: Maine voted to not allow gay marriage.

That really sucks. I don't know why states can't just do this stuff.

On a side note, i just spent the last 4 hours looking at the milkyboys blog. My jaw dropped at some of the most beautiful people in the world. I never masturbate, though.

At 11/5/09 01:40 AM, TheRadicalOne wrote: Yes! Yes we did it! We stopped the gays from getting married!

Such an emotional moment. *sniff*

What a disciminating person.You are an ass.
Just because we are differant does not give you the right to take away or freedoms and not treat us as equals. you are a prick.

At 11/5/09 02:51 AM, gamer30hrplus wrote:

At 11/5/09 01:40 AM, TheRadicalOne wrote: Yes! Yes we did it! We stopped the gays from getting married!

Such an emotional moment. *sniff*

What a disciminating person.You are an ass.
Just because we are differant does not give you the right to take away or freedoms and not treat us as equals. you are a prick.

Whoa, calm down there, he's on our side. (he's a friend of mine, and a great guy) I guess the sarcasm went right over your head. He really meant that those people are horrible. Yeah he has kind of an offbeat sense of humor I guess. I would just wait for him to reply for himself but I guess he went to bed, I didn't want this thread to turn into a shitstorm or something in the meantime.

Whoa, calm down there, he's on our side. (he's a friend of mine, and a great guy) I guess the sarcasm went right over your head. He really meant that those people are horrible. Yeah he has kind of an offbeat sense of humor I guess. I would just wait for him to reply for himself but I guess he went to bed, I didn't want this thread to turn into a shitstorm or something in the meantime.

Then explain it to me there young one.
Who's side is he on cause i do not think he is on the side with the gays. What i see is someone that is glad (us LGBT) do not have rights and that same sex marriage is wrong.Your right i get upset when someone says things like that. I am to old and have been in to many fights not to be. So forgive me if i do not get what he is saying. Cause i have been around the block to many times. I have seen none gay people say they are gay to get info on them to hurt them. So yeah i am a bit uneased here. maybe you could sheed some light as to what he ment. Cause in my experiance it is harrashment and saying that they are against gays.

Sorry gamer, but you need to calm down a little bit. That sarcasm was extremely obvious and hilarious.

I don't know why I've refrained from posting here; might have been a bad first impression or something, but I figured that to hell with it. I'm, if a bit inactive, an NG regular, and bisexual, and I think it's important for people in the GLBTQ (etc.) spectrum to unite.

On my sexuality, I first relised it in my teens. At the time, there was a lot of talk about metrosexuality and "rendy faux-bisexuals", so I kept to myself. I've never really considered myself a dedicated follower of fashion, I was just a bit awkward nerdy guy. I also thought that it wasn't that big a deal in modern society, anyway.

A few years later, I started realizing that yes, actually it's a bit of a big deal; I'm not what society wants me to be. SInce then, I've become more aware, and slightly more militant as well. I have a background in leftist activism and I don't believe in just lieing back and waiting for society to fix itself. Despite my activism, i don't really place that much importance on gay marriage. Sure, it has its pperks, but why should we imitate the heteronormative culture that way, and the GLBT groups direct too much of their resources to fight foor the right to marry ignoring other battles.

One of my most important experiences was reading Khaos Komix (despite the silly name, a pretty great comic) and meeting the multitude of people on the forum.

I've also went through the oblligatory identity crises; am I just straight and fooling myself? Am I gay and just fooling myself? Could I be transgender? But no, while I haven't still gained complete confidence over it, I'm sure that I'm bisexual, with a shifting preferance (as of late more into men), and I hate having to be double-ashamed about it; once from the heteronormative culture from being different, and then from the gay community for not being "all the way", or worse "trendy".

At 11/5/09 12:12 PM, JohnnyWang wrote: I don't know why I've refrained from posting here; might have been a bad first impression or something, but I figured that to hell with it. I'm, if a bit inactive, an NG regular, and bisexual, and I think it's important for people in the GLBTQ (etc.) spectrum to unite.

Welcome then.

On my sexuality, I first relised it in my teens. At the time, there was a lot of talk about metrosexuality and "rendy faux-bisexuals", so I kept to myself. I've never really considered myself a dedicated follower of fashion, I was just a bit awkward nerdy guy. I also thought that it wasn't that big a deal in modern society, anyway.

There still is and may be one reason why I'm still "closeted" about my sexuality.

A few years later, I started realizing that yes, actually it's a bit of a big deal; I'm not what society wants me to be. SInce then, I've become more aware, and slightly more militant as well. I have a background in leftist activism and I don't believe in just lieing back and waiting for society to fix itself. Despite my activism, i don't really place that much importance on gay marriage. Sure, it has its pperks, but why should we imitate the heteronormative culture that way, and the GLBT groups direct too much of their resources to fight foor the right to marry ignoring other battles.

Honestly, I believe in the idea of homosexual marriage but not for the same reasons most people might. To my knowledge, civil partnerships don't give the same amount of rights marriage does which can make things complicated. For instance, unless you go out and mention the person in your will before you die, your possessions will go to your family instead of your boyfriend/girlfriend. There's other things, but it's really all the policies that encourage marriage seem to be closed to anyone with a homosexual relationship. To my knowledge though, besides discrimination and a horrible public image, I'm not sure of any major battles the GLBTQ area.

One of my most important experiences was reading Khaos Komix (despite the silly name, a pretty great comic) and meeting the multitude of people on the forum.

I may take a look then.

I've also went through the oblligatory identity crises; am I just straight and fooling myself? Am I gay and just fooling myself? Could I be transgender? But no, while I haven't still gained complete confidence over it, I'm sure that I'm bisexual, with a shifting preferance (as of late more into men), and I hate having to be double-ashamed about it; once from the heteronormative culture from being different, and then from the gay community for not being "all the way", or worse "trendy".

Honestly, I'd be lying if I wasn't still questioning myself at least daily about my sexuality. I'm currently just hoping everything falls into place really.

To those who are questioning their sexuality and are still really unsure, have you had any gay experiences? If not, go have one! This doesn't mean be promiscuous or something, but if you aren't comfortable with having a gay relationship then you might have to fool around once randomly (but safely) to get at least some answers for yourself. At the very least just kiss someone. You could have a gay experience and think "wow this was totally wrong and I feel really uncomfortable" or you could really like it and decide to be gay.

Plus, if you don't have at least one experience, you could get into a heterosexual relationship and that constant gay curiosity might cause complications with your heterosexual partner. Then again, this point could go in the opposite direction and you might need to have a heterosexual experience (if you haven't) with someone in order to see what attracts you the most.

If you're 100% sure you're bisexual and you still haven't told someone, I'd suggest telling someone (face to face) about your sexuality. If you have absolutely no one to go to because you feel people will judge/reject/hate you, then maybe you should go to a school guidance counselor or anyone of that nature. Once you tell someone you might find it can be a lot easier to tell others as well, and you'll feel so much better now that it's off your chest!

Jesus H Christ, it took me ages to type up this post because I had it all typed up, then I accidentally copied something else and lost the who thing.

At 11/4/09 10:00 PM, gamer30hrplus wrote: You seem to be attacking me rather then listening to my side.

Those who live in glass houses ought not throw stones.

At 11/5/09 12:24 AM, Sensationalism wrote: This is a gay/bi club and I feel like we've gone way off topic discussing religion like this. There's an Atheist Army club thing and probably some other clubs that this would be better suited for.

I agree. The argument started out relevant, because we were talking about the religious right's effect on the gay rights movement, but now we're just arguing about whether god exists.

It's nice to have different perspectives from different people. Nobody knows the answer for sure, that's why it's so nice to hear what everyone has to say. :3

As long as everyone's willing to listen.

At 11/5/09 12:50 AM, gamer30hrplus wrote: Maine voted to not allow gay marriage.
What a blow.
Domestic partnership is still legal though.

Yeah, I heard about that.

They say it was in (a large) part due to smear campaigns.

At 11/5/09 01:40 AM, TheRadicalOne wrote: Yes! Yes we did it! We stopped the gays from getting married!

Such an emotional moment. *sniff*

Let us have a toast, gentlemen, to oppression.

At 11/5/09 02:35 AM, hhcash wrote: That really sucks. I don't know why states can't just do this stuff.

I'm still baffled by how it's considered constitutional. The government shouldn't force churches to become open and affirming, but it still should be legal for those churches that do want to. And people should still have the option to be married by the state.

At 11/5/09 03:58 AM, gamer30hrplus wrote: Then explain it to me there young one.
Who's side is he on cause i do not think he is on the side with the gays. What i see is someone that is glad (us LGBT) do not have rights and that same sex marriage is wrong.Your right i get upset when someone says things like that. I am to old and have been in to many fights not to be. So forgive me if i do not get what he is saying. Cause i have been around the block to many times. I have seen none gay people say they are gay to get info on them to hurt them. So yeah i am a bit uneased here. maybe you could sheed some light as to what he ment. Cause in my experiance it is harrashment and saying that they are against gays.

Sar-ca-sm. [sahr-kaz-uhm] Sarcasm. Jesus.

At 11/5/09 11:45 AM, hhcash wrote: Sorry gamer, but you need to calm down a little bit. That sarcasm was extremely obvious and hilarious.

^

At 11/5/09 12:12 PM, JohnnyWang wrote: Despite my activism, i don't really place that much importance on gay marriage. Sure, it has its pperks, but why should we imitate the heteronormative culture that way, and the GLBT groups direct too much of their resources to fight foor the right to marry ignoring other battles.

I don't care much for the symbolism of marriage, but I do care about the rights. The tax cuts, child custody rights, social security, visiting rights, etc.

But, anyways, welcome.

At 11/5/09 03:42 AM, gregaaron89 wrote:

At 11/5/09 02:51 AM, gamer30hrplus wrote:

At 11/5/09 01:40 AM, TheRadicalOne wrote: Yes! Yes we did it! We stopped the gays from getting married!

Such an emotional moment. *sniff*

What a disciminating person.You are an ass.
Just because we are differant does not give you the right to take away or freedoms and not treat us as equals. you are a prick.

Whoa, calm down there, he's on our side. (he's a friend of mine, and a great guy) I guess the sarcasm went right over your head. He really meant that those people are horrible. Yeah he has kind of an offbeat sense of humor I guess. I would just wait for him to reply for himself but I guess he went to bed, I didn't want this thread to turn into a shitstorm or something in the meantime.

Thanks Greg, totally sorry. I didn't intend to come off as trolling or anything like that, but I can only imagine that's how they must of felt. I mean look at the older woman in the corner, it's like she just heard that her daughter became president of the United States and her husband is thinking, "I hope nobody sees me here right now."

"Yes! We defended marriage from the gays! How dare they try to get the same right I was born with! Jesus would be proud."

Once again, my mistake gamer.

It is so hard to convey sarcasm in text...

At 11/5/09 07:18 PM, TheRadicalOne wrote:

It is so hard to convey sarcasm in text...

The sarcasm was clear, it just went over gamer's head...

The woman in the middle looks like she's thanking the lawd.

At 11/5/09 01:40 AM, TheRadicalOne wrote: Yes! Yes we did it! We stopped the gays from getting married!

Damn, that shit sucks ass. It amazes me that people would want to do something like that to other people. I mean gay people are just as human as heterosexuals. At least we still have hubby hubby.

and it was a joke gamer, chill out :P

At 11/5/09 12:12 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:

A few years later, I started realizing that yes, actually it's a bit of a big deal; I'm not what society wants me to be.

Yeah, I usually have this thought from time to time, and that's one of the main things stopping me from coming out. I'm sure that my mom wouldn't care, but what about everyone else? I know my dad is incredibly homophobic, and some of my friends are. Only 2 of my friends know that I'm gay, and that was an accident.

One of my most important experiences was reading Khaos Komix (despite the silly name, a pretty great comic) and meeting the multitude of people on the forum.

I just read through Mark's and Steve's story, and it's a pretty cool comic. I'll be sure to read it all.

At 11/5/09 04:34 PM, Sun-and-Moon wrote: To those who are questioning their sexuality and are still really unsure, have you had any gay experiences?

I've actually had one gay relationship with a dude, and that was nice while it lasted. I went out with some chick before this, and I have to say that going out with another guy is actually much better.

At 11/4/09 12:11 AM, TheRadicalOne wrote:

At 11/4/09 12:03 AM, Sensationalism wrote:

To be honest, I don't think you should have been trying to convince her about the falseness of what she believed in. People should be allowed to have whatever personal beliefs they want.

I sit on the fence with that one. While I agree with you on allowing people to have whatever beliefs they want, I feel that sometimes those beliefs may just get forced onto their kids or close family anyway.

i hate Christianity/Islam and any other religion similar to those. I'm not saying that I hate christians, I like some of the teachings of the bible (peace, love, etc) but I can't stand people like this and this. I know not all religious ones are like that, but still. I can respect a Christian, but you can never make me respect religion. What you believe doesn't matter, belief is in your head and you can prove it. You ACTIONS are what actually matter. Why can't people just be nice, try to get along, be happy, and live their lives instead of whining about what some fucking book says?