Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 7/16/08 06:58 PM, CircleNineStudios wrote: Your courses sound a lot like what I'm doing currently: a little bit of everything. I thought it was stupid at first, but now I realize the importance of understanding what goes on at every stage of production.

It's true that you need a decent amount of knowledge to understand what's coming your way and what the next team is going to need from you so that you can work fluidly in a game design company but the artwork is generally a do what you're told kind of thing.

When the boss comes down and asks you to create a couple of roughs of city back drops for a 1930s gangster based noir game with a hint of fantasy to incorporate werewolves you don't really need C++.

I'm just bitching really because being an artist is like being a comedian. You can't just get into the field. You have to take every job in every aspect of it until you're known enough to do what you want. As one comedian said, it's like telling somebody you're a chef and then having them offer you a job as a farmer because you deal with food.

So yeah, video game design...........I wish you all good luck.

I'd like to suggest we do some exercises and hold discussions, but I'm not sure whether we should make a group in the Clubs & Crews Forum first. I think that would be the right thing to do, but I want to get everyone's opinion. Also, if any mods want to let us know whether we should be moving to the C&C Forum, that would be awesome.

A Proposition:
As for our new club, I was thinking something along the lines of "Aspiring Game Developers Club." We could share ideas, hold discussions about recent games and technologies and mull over game concepts with one another. Basically, the club would be a sounding board for new ideas, a place to discuss game development in all forms, and a hang-out for those who want to learn more about game development. We can all help each other learn new things.

When starting the new club, we could link to it from here and also link back to this original thread so people have an idea of how we got started.

Back to Before:
So, I was talking about discussions I wanted to have. One discussion we had in a class would translate nicely to Newgrounds, I think. We were talking about making games accessible to everyone. This means catering to common accessibility options not found in a surprising amount of games (sub-titles for the hearing-impaired, alternative graphics options for color blindness, etc). We could take a look at some of the games on Newgrounds and see how they could be made more accessible.

Anyway, let me know what you're thinking and we might be able to get this started if everyone is as excited as I am.

-Will

I program in c++ and have apsolutley no aspirations except to learn c++.

At 7/17/08 12:46 PM, sirtom93 wrote: I program in c++ and have apsolutley no aspirations except to learn c++.

Once you learn C++, what do you see yourself doing with it? Some other kind of software development, possibly? Or do you just have no idea yet? : 3

The fact you came to this thread means you at least have some interest in game development, so maybe you could give it a shot with some small, homemade games. I bet you can think of some cool stuff.

Peacely Mc Peacelson

I have made some games but to be honest the games industry isn't for me, I prefer politics. I wish to program some small indie games in my spare time though.

At 7/17/08 02:03 PM, sirtom93 wrote: I prefer politics.

Your sig says it all. I'll vote for you : )

I wish to program some small indie games in my spare time though.

Cool. Game development as a hobby is awesome.

I just want to bump this, because I think it would be nice to get it going.

^Refer to my post, 2nd on this page, about organizing a Club in the C&C Forums.

i just wanna make my game, Link

At 7/16/08 02:24 AM, Sk8erGirl14 wrote: Game designing as in programming or drawing? Because I suck at programming, but drawing things for games would be totally fun.

Drawing for the job woulod be the "Concept Artist" hotness :)

At 7/18/08 03:10 PM, xXCostelloXx wrote: Drawing for the job woulod be the "Concept Artist" hotness :)

Or "Matte Painter" : 3

At 7/18/08 03:15 PM, CircleNineStudios wrote:

At 7/18/08 03:10 PM, xXCostelloXx wrote: Drawing for the job woulod be the "Concept Artist" hotness :)

Or "Matte Painter" : 3

Fer real though concept art as a career would PWN ass man, i mean get paid to fuckin doodle a picture. Yayy

At 7/18/08 03:20 PM, xXCostelloXx wrote: Fer real though concept art as a career would PWN ass man, i mean get paid to fuckin doodle a picture. Yayy

I'm sure it would be great, just like programmers would love sitting at their desk typing all day and designers would love carving out levels in their editor. That's what I find so cool about this career path...it's taking what you love to do all day and turning it into your job.

Also, to funkycaveman:
You should flesh out your story a little more. If you already have, post it up. I'd like to see where it's going, because it looks pretty cool so far. What were you planning on using to make this game?

Someone may be interested so here goes.

What I would recommend to anyone who wants to start making games is this. Start off small and build up. Yes, it's been said a million times before and it's been true very single time. If you really want to make games, get the free trial of Flash and start messing with it. Learn how to script in AS (ActionScript), how things work and so on and so forth. You may even want to buy it so you can spend more than 30 days playing with it. It's really fun too.

After you have decided you learned enough AS (1-2 years AT LEAST imho) you may want to move on to another programming language where you can make a real program. I would recommend C++ because that's what most of the gaming industry seems to use (I have been researching some).

Of course once you get into C++ don't just automatically say "I MAEK MMO GAEM NOW K THX" because you won't. Learn how C++ works because it is VERY different from AS. If it's so different, why bother learning AS? Because if you can't handle AS there's no way you'll be able to handle C++.

Personally I recommend buying a book that teaches the fundamentals of C++ instead of relying on the internet. Sure, it's a great source but to me a book just works better. Once you think you've learned enough C++ and you've made enough "hello world" programs, you may want to get into something more exciting. Maybe even make a 3D game (!).

For this I recommend Truevision3D. Now, mind you this is NOT A GAME ENGINE. It is solely a graphics engine, which means you will have to code the back-end of your game. TV3D is still a good thing though, because you probably don't want to make your own 3D engine at this point.

A note about Truevision3D. It is a FREE 3D engine, for life. There is no "free for 30 days then pay up". It's free for life. However, if you get the free version you CANNOT sell your game, and it will have a watermark at the bottom. If you want to sell your game you will have to buy a one time license ($150 I believe), which is good for ONE game. Or you could buy the unlimited license which is $500. I suggest you don't pay up until you're certain you are going to use this.

And what comes after TV3D? Who knows. For all you know you may stay with TV3D and just become some indie game programmer and just make games by yourself, or maybe you'll want to make your own 3D engine (have fun!) or something weird like that. Who knows what comes next!

But then again. What do I know, I'm just 16, rite?

At 7/18/08 03:24 PM, CircleNineStudios wrote:

At 7/18/08 03:20 PM, xXCostelloXx wrote: Fer real though concept art as a career would PWN ass man, i mean get paid to fuckin doodle a picture. Yayy

I'm sure it would be great, just like programmers would love sitting at their desk typing all day and designers would love carving out levels in their editor. That's what I find so cool about this career path...it's taking what you love to do all day and turning it into your job.

Most def my man, you sir know what your talkin about. I dunno, i mean being one would be amazing though, i mean i personally would want to have a greater impact on the creation of a game, like be a concept artist AND THEN SOME. Not to mention the downsides to the job:

Carpoltunnel <-spelled wrong i know'
headaches
ink all over your hands
you eventually hate drawin after 30 years
your names near the END of the credits
and artist dont get laid as often as say, a tester or graphic designer

Responsorial (ah, ah, ahh, ahhh, MEEEN):

Wurmy1029 posted the following spicy collection of phrases (with a side of rice pilaf):

:: Start off small and build up.
This is true for everything. There's no way you can start with trying to program "The Gratezorz RPG of all Tymez!." I have found a really great guide for programmers who want to begin making some games: A Path to Game Development (the contents are on the right side of the page - it's a little cluttered.)

Keep in mind this is simply a path. You can always blaze your own trail; just remember to keep your map handy.

:: Get the free trial of Flash and start messing with it. Learn how to script in AS (ActionScript), how things work and so on and so forth.
This is probably one of the best pieces of advice, especially for Newgrounders. You can submit any games you make and get immediate and honest feedback from a huge community that is usually ready to help you out.

:: I would recommend C++...
I like this suggestion, but I would recommend C# as well, even though C++ is still used widely. I would also recommend learning Java, as it is incredibly useful and you can make some cool games with it (RuneScape - sorry haters.)

:: Because if you can't handle AS there's no way you'll be able to handle C++.
I'd like to disagree just because some people might be able to grasp C++ better that ActionScript (although unlikely) however, I won't because I think learning ActionScript first gives you a good understanding of Boolean and Maths, which prepares you for C++ even though they are completely different languages.

:: But then again. What do I know, I'm just 16, rite?
Oh never mind, you have no idea what you're talking about, then... :3

To xXCostelloXx:

I'd try to forget about the downsides. These are the things you focus on when you are wearing out, but you can always recover and remember why you love your job...or so I've heard.

Editorial (means opinion column, fyi for the news newbs):

I'd like to elaborate more on what Wurmy1029 was saying by including some others who would like to follow paths other than programming:

For aspiring designers (level design, writing, blahdy blah):
-Learn how to use level editors! Get out there and make some mods with your favorite games. Try to create some awesome levels, paying attention to pacing and space, and keep them in a portfolio. Update your portfolio often, filtering out the super crappy stuff as you get better (remember to show some sense of progression, but still use your best work.)

-Write and read every single day. Get in the habit of jotting down ideas and fleshing them out. Who cares if you never finished that novel you started in sophomore year? Start 100 novels, just keep writing! Read your favorite types of books, grab some science fiction and fantasy occasionally, too.

-Keep up with technology! Checking out what new technologies are out there can generate great new ideas. Here's a great place to keep track every day: CNN Tech News

-Subscribe to gaming magazines. If you don't want to, read about games on sites like Game Spot. Especially see if you can get your hands on Post Mortems; these are developer's thought on what went right/wrong in the process and a general recap of the development process.

-Learn some scripting languages. They come in handy when scripting map events in your editor the programmers so kindly engineered for you.

For aspiring artists (concept artists, 3D modelers and animators, etc):
I'm not the expert on art (especially drawing), but I will say that drawing every day is your best bet. Of course, you know that better than I do, you incredibly talented individuals, you...

Um, if one of you aforementioned individuals would like to post some suggestions for aspiring game artists, please do.

It ends here...
Bide, bide, bide, bide, bide, That's all, folks! *melody here*

-Will

Not to pop anyone's dream here, but if you can't get an university grade education don't bother with the game industry. Making games sounds fun but alot is involved. Not to mention the amount of jobs in the industry are really scarce.

At 7/18/08 03:20 PM, xXCostelloXx wrote:

At 7/18/08 03:15 PM, CircleNineStudios wrote:

At 7/18/08 03:10 PM, xXCostelloXx wrote: Drawing for the job woulod be the "Concept Artist" hotness :)

Or "Matte Painter" : 3

Fer real though concept art as a career would PWN ass man, i mean get paid to fuckin doodle a picture. Yayy

It's not quite that simple. The job of concept artist is generally given to one of the main artists working on the game already.

You don't just show up, draw five sketches and go home.

At 7/18/08 06:01 PM, Yiffy wrote: Not to pop anyone's dream here, but if you can't get an university grade education don't bother with the game industry.

A college education is always good, I will definitely agree with you there. However, I wouldn't say "don't bother" with the entire industry. There are plenty of small, "indie" studios out there that would probably hire talented people regardless of their education.

Making games sounds fun but alot is involved.

Of course a lot is involved, but if it's your passion it means you will succeed. Just because something is hard work doesn't make it boring or not fun.

Not to mention the amount of jobs in the industry are really scarce.

If you're only counting large studios. There are a ton of small companies everywhere, and you don't have to stick to "video game" development; you can branch off slightly and do things like edutainment and simulations, which broadens your employment options if you keep your mind open. Also, with home development becoming more popular, pretty soon we could be seeing some amazing things from people who have no experience in the traditional industry.

I can tell you weren't trying to be condescending. My guess is you were just trying to weed out people who aren't serious (why so serious?) about game development-people who think it would be like Grandma's Boy every day. I also am not trying to bitch at you, but am simply trying to keep spirits high.

shiggity shwa, myea pebula.