Motion Controls, new Analog Sticks?

[MCSMstudios]

With the success of the Wii one can't help but wonder if motion controls will become the standard for console gaming. In the mid 90's, when 3D games became popular, analog sticks became a necessity. All N64 controllers had them built in, and the next generation the others followed.
Motion controls don't seem as necessary as analog sticks, but even in their primitive state they are widely popular despite their inaccuracy. The next generation will likely bring more precise and enjoyable motion controls.
Microsoft and Sony have long been rumoured to be developing their own motion controllers, although many of these rumours are obviously jokes. With the unexpected success of the Wii it would seem a bad business move not to copy Nintendo. With E3 just around the corner we should expect some mention.
What do you think? Motion controls, tacky gimmick or gaming revolution?

[Jezuz]

Wii is a gimmick, motion controls are a gimmick. Doesn't matter either way. I won't be running out to buy a next gen console, motion controls or not.

[SniperWolf1564]

I'm fine with analogue sticks. With what developers are doing with the Wii, it seems obvious that motion sensitivity is nothing more than a joke at this time.

[malachi117]

I don't think Microsoft & Sony are going to mess with Motion Controls until either Nintendo starts to make motion control that works very well, or it becomes a much larger selling factor than it is right now.

[narf109]

i will never play consoles again if they go strictly to motion controls. I'm a button masher and always will be.

[MCSMstudios]

At 7/8/08 08:12 PM, narf109 wrote: i will never play consoles again if they go strictly to motion controls. I'm a button masher and always will be.

Well it's not like we're ever going to see controllers without buttons. We don't see Dpadless controllers because of analog sticks, right?

[Jezuz]

At 7/8/08 08:20 PM, MCSMstudios wrote:

Well it's not like we're ever going to see controllers without buttons. We don't see Dpadless controllers because of analog sticks, right?

Completely different. One is an extra feature that helps movement, the other completely changes the way games are played.

[narf109]

Well it's not like we're ever going to see controllers without buttons. We don't see Dpadless controllers because of analog sticks, right?

ps3 still has a d-pad and I prefer D-pads for fighting games esspecially for performing combos. My analog stick would be broken by now if i didn't use a d-pad lol I'm alittle violent :P

[MCSMstudios]

At 7/8/08 08:23 PM, Jezuz wrote:

At 7/8/08 08:20 PM, MCSMstudios wrote:

Well it's not like we're ever going to see controllers without buttons. We don't see Dpadless controllers because of analog sticks, right?

Completely different. One is an extra feature that helps movement, the other completely changes the way games are played.

I disagree. In fact I'm not even 100% sure which is which when you're decribing them. Analog sticks certainly completely changed the way games are played. Compare the early Crash Bandicoot games to Super Mario 64, pretty different.

[narf109]

I disagree. In fact I'm not even 100% sure which is which when you're decribing them. Analog sticks certainly completely changed the way games are played. Compare the early Crash Bandicoot games to Super Mario 64, pretty different.

I guess but thats really just movement. The motion sensing doesn't work properly and you have to admit that. I've tried performing combos/ tricks with the Wiimote is practically impossible. For this skateboarding game, It's saying I have to make a shape with the wiimote, I do that and it doesn't perform the move. It registers movement but pulls off a move before I'm finished with my shape and screws the whole thing up, and I have to start again.

And all the analog did was allow for a more dynamic movement and didn't hinder the d-pad to useless. It still performs functions along with the analog.

How will I move my guy around with a motion sensor? I'm not flinging the thing around like a madman just to walk a few steps.

[TheMaster]

Motions controls work for little things. For example, I wouldn't play a Wii game with the motion sensor, I'd only play a Wii game I could use the Gamecube controller on. It's a gimmick and doesn't work for playing games properly, it's supposed to let people around you get a laugh and for you find trying twice as hard to play half as well fun, somehow.

The PS3 motion sensing works. Like, shaking off the octocamo in MGS4 by rattling the controller, that's practical, or tipping the controller backwards in GTA IV to reload a gun, that's practical. Flying a helicopter in GTA IV with it is NOT practical, it's twice as hard, and not fun.

I think what I'm saying is, you should make a game WITHOUT the motion controls, and then add EXTRA stuff that uses them. Little things, like the reloading in GTA IV, or the balancing on logs in Uncharted. You shouldn't build games around them.

[MCSMstudios]

At 7/8/08 09:02 PM, TheMaster wrote: I think what I'm saying is, you should make a game WITHOUT the motion controls, and then add EXTRA stuff that uses them. Little things, like the reloading in GTA IV, or the balancing on logs in Uncharted. You shouldn't build games around them.

True. I think Metroid Prime 3 did an excellent job of that. But the technology will get better; right now it's impractical to have an entirely motion-controlled game, but it can be done. I believe the bowling in Wii Sports is about the best we can get right now.

[TheMaster]

At 7/8/08 09:16 PM, MCSMstudios wrote: right now it's impractical to have an entirely motion-controlled game, but it can be done.

I don't think so. There's only so many ways you can wave a controller. How you would walk, and aim a gun at the same time? How would you move forward, and jump at the same time? Motion sensing is billed as being more intuitive, but to do anything more than the most basic actions it becomes awkward and impractical. It's much more limited than button based control.

[WilliWowza]

Once it becomes more advanced, like actually strapping sensors to parts of your body to simulate your real movements then it'll be something worthwhile. Right now you can just flick your wrist and it'll give the same effect as a massive swing of the remote, seems pointless to me.

[MCSMstudios]

At 7/8/08 09:25 PM, TheMaster wrote: I don't think so. There's only so many ways you can wave a controller. How you would walk, and aim a gun at the same time? How would you move forward, and jump at the same time? Motion sensing is billed as being more intuitive, but to do anything more than the most basic actions it becomes awkward and impractical. It's much more limited than button based control.

I have no idea how it would work but I know there must be a way. It's hard to see now, because the idea isn't "ripe" if you catch my meaning. If you look at early 3D games many of them had no ideas what they were doing and it turned into crap. I see motion controls the same way. It's not that they can't work, but that we don't know how to make them work at this point.

[Jerkapotamus]

I think the eventual future (maybe not in the next generation, but eventually) is to not have a controller, but instead have a really really advanced camera that recognizes your movements. They had such a device at GDC this year. They were showing off a Wii boxing type game with it that looked sick. Some games would be difficult to use it with, so maybe have a really simple controller as well with an analog stick and maybe motion controls as well. Playing an FPS with such a setup would be awesome. It would be like head-tracking but to the next level.

I don't mind motion controls in most cases. I don't like games that use waggle for combat. I really enjoy FPS's with it though.

[LTmatt]

At 7/8/08 06:25 PM, SniperWolf1564 wrote: I'm fine with analogue sticks. With what developers are doing with the Wii, it seems obvious that motion sensitivity is nothing more than a joke at this time.

Yeah. Imagine playing CoD with a fucking Wiimote?

[narf109]

I have no idea how it would work but I know there must be a way. It's hard to see now, because the idea isn't "ripe" if you catch my meaning. If you look at early 3D games many of them had no ideas what they were doing and it turned into crap. I see motion controls the same way. It's not that they can't work, but that we don't know how to make them work at this point.

ok but think of it this way for a second.

Lets say they make something nice and advanced and wat not. It now comes down to the users capablities to handle something like that.

You turned something as easy as hitting a button to perform an action into something really complicated where a persons flexibility, depth, and sense of balance come into play.

The one issue I have is that I cannot keep a controller straight when I have to. What if theres a game that requires you to remain perfectly still. This would require you to have the wiimote in a balanced possition... which I'm sorry I jsut can't do. I don't have the sense of balance and steadyness in my hands to keep a wiimote in the proper position. You gotta think about how an entire world would be able to handle this thing. I like new things but I just can do a motion sensor. Its physically impossible for me to learn how to use it right.

You know what can best describe how hard a wiimote will be to use for me? Remember that Tilt Maze you got as a kid? Where you tried to get the ball to the other side without it falling into one of the holes? I see my frustration with motion sensing relating to this annoying fucking game. (see image)

[MCSMstudios]

At 7/8/08 10:34 PM, narf109 wrote: Stuff

The ball tilting thing is a minigame in Twilight Princess aswell as many other Wii games. All the motions would be simplified in a way, just like the tilting.

I couldn't work an analog stick when I first used one, I thought it was impossible to point it in the right direction with the right amount of tilt, but it's second nature now. When you watch a kid play video games, or try anything new really, for the first time they can't do it exactly right, but we all learn.

[Jaketheclonetrooper]

I don't like the motion controls on the Wii.

Before I played it, I thought it would be very accurate and useful.

It turns out those 10 year old light guns in the arcades are more accurate.

[BlueFlameSkulls]

Call me primitive but I prefer sitting down and using a normal controller rather than wave my hand around.

[zooos]

Now, i own a wii and enjoy it very much, but i dont think its that great of a technology that it will become the norm. Its cool, fun, but I'm sure they could of made something similar years ago, but thats my imo.

One thing i dislike and hope doesnt catch on are those stupid ps3 motion controls, honestly, DOES ANYONE USE THAT FEATURE(unless shooting an arrow in heavenly sword)

I remember in skate., i tried it for like 4 seconds and couldnt get into it