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At 7/8/08 09:33 AM, Paranoia wrote: Really, collabs which don't go anywhere do a lot of harm to the creative side of the site. Newer users put a substantial amount of effort into parts for collabs which end up getting dropped because the starter doesn't know jack about leading anything, and end up avoiding future collabs or even development altogether.

I really hate seeing people getting caught up in optimism and making an effort for something which ends up being a big pile of wasted potential.

I am a strong believer in the idea that anything someone creates is beneficial to them irrelevant of the audience that gets to see it.

And as far as the people that get their hopes up about collabs that end up flopped, how is it going to change anything if the collabs fail under a different forum title.

At 7/8/08 09:34 AM, Fion wrote:

At 7/8/08 09:28 AM, Rustygames wrote: The big hassle is it is diluting an otherwise perfectly decent place to post questions and get abusive answers.

Collabs are off topic and uncreative so I just think there should be another designated area for them to soil.

I don't really think it very much effects the general function of the Flash forum, people who want to participate in collabs go into the collab threads people who don't don't. We pretty much keep ourselves separate anyway. If anything it may add a bit of helping, if collab whore hop on NG to check any updates on their collab they might just asnwer a few flash related questions while they are at it.

Ah ok. So let's all go over to the programming forum and start posting about actionscript. Don't worry we'll keep ourselves seperate and if the programmers dont like it they can just scroll.

At 7/8/08 09:37 AM, Rustygames wrote: Ah ok. So let's all go over to the programming forum and start posting about actionscript. Don't worry we'll keep ourselves seperate and if the programmers dont like it they can just scroll.

Good idea bring this down from intelligent discussion to pathetic insults.

I generally put forward my opinion under the idea that there was never going to be a collab section in the newgrounds BBS as it has already been a shut down suggestion by the administration. And as long as that stands I believe the flash forum the most reasonable location for collaborations to take place

At 7/8/08 09:41 AM, Fion wrote:

At 7/8/08 09:37 AM, Rustygames wrote: Ah ok. So let's all go over to the programming forum and start posting about actionscript. Don't worry we'll keep ourselves seperate and if the programmers dont like it they can just scroll.

Good idea bring this down from intelligent discussion to pathetic insults.

I generally put forward my opinion under the idea that there was never going to be a collab section in the newgrounds BBS as it has already been a shut down suggestion by the administration. And as long as that stands I believe the flash forum the most reasonable location for collaborations to take place

Sorry not insulting, just trying to show you that "live with it" isn't an argument. It's a matter of cleaning this place up and putting the rif raf out where they belong.

Flash forum never used to have collabs, then they appeared and were frowned upon, now idiots use them as a way of cheating their way to a high score / popularity.

They can do it still, but not if it means clogging up our forum and ruining our experience. That's what they've done to me at least.

Im with Rusty :D
We should sign a petition and present it to the NG staff :D

yeah, i'm fairly new to the forums, but a lot of the time, people post a thread, asking a decent question, and within a day, it's gone, due to the popularity of the collabs...

Advantages of Collab section:

1. Easier for Flash forum users to find and anser questions

2. Easier for collab joiners to browse through collabs quickly, and choose which one they want.

3. Easier for mods to browse through collabs and delete illegal ones.

At 7/8/08 09:44 AM, Rustygames wrote: Sorry not insulting, just trying to show you that "live with it" isn't an argument. It's a matter of cleaning this place up and putting the rif raf out where they belong.

Flash forum never used to have collabs, then they appeared and were frowned upon, now idiots use them as a way of cheating their way to a high score / popularity.

They can do it still, but not if it means clogging up our forum and ruining our experience. That's what they've done to me at least.

Then if that's the way you feel suggest all collaborative efforts be stricken from the Newgrounds BBS. Don't make silly suggestions of higher Batting average requirements or wishing to just throw it all in a different forum.

I'm not disagreeing with the problem being there, I'm disagreeing with your suggested methods of how to solve this problem, as this is what the topic is about.

-Fion, PS KIRKPLZDONTBAN

Im going to make a thread as a petition for a new 'Collab Forum' I suggest you all sign it

At 7/8/08 09:49 AM, the-boot-clock wrote:
Then if that's the way you feel suggest all collaborative efforts be stricken from the Newgrounds BBS. Don't make silly suggestions of higher Batting average requirements or wishing to just throw it all in a different forum.

I'm not disagreeing with the problem being there, I'm disagreeing with your suggested methods of how to solve this problem, as this is what the topic is about.

-Fion, PS KIRKPLZDONTBAN

My only goal is to control the amount. If the only fair way to do that is put them in another section then so be it. It wouldn't be fair to ban n00bs outright, so we must move them.

I made the petition. Its on the flash forum.

SIGN IT NOOWWWW!!!

That'd be cool. I say for it.

Also, I have a B/A of 4, so please don't advertise your thing on my collab thread when It doesn't apply to me.

At 7/8/08 09:44 AM, Rustygames wrote: Flash forum never used to have collabs, then they appeared and were frowned upon, now idiots use them as a way of cheating their way to a high score / popularity.

Way to generalize all collabs as uninspiring and uncreative mechanisms for 'idiots' to enlarge their e-penis. Although I must admit a small amount of collabs fit that description pretty well there's has been a decline in those since the new rules were formed. Collabs in general are a fun way for authors to get in touch with other authors, learn new techniques from experience and other people's work. I myself find it inspiring to work with other NG'ers, it fuels me up to work on my own pieces again.

I agree that the amount of collabs was a problem, but things have been much more quiet lately (especially for a summer holiday period). Describing collabs as uncreative and 'soiling' the flash forum ticks me off. Stop overreacting.

Everyone for the collab forum sign the petition if you want any chance of it happening

How about certain people get permission to start a collaboration, perhaps from moderators. It will certainly be a challenge for moderators, but on the other hand, all collaborations threads made will be open without any objection.

On the other hand, there can be something like a collab-hosting license for people who qualify.

While I was posting this the other topic was locked so I'll post it here..

"I brought this up ages ago. But people said that they should go to ng collabs - which has since gone down. If I was to put some time and money into making a new NG collabs who thinks it'd be a good idea(unless Tom sees it fit to make a new forum on here)? NGCollabs was quite successful until it went down.

I say we bring back ng collabs forum, which I'm willing to do, and make the rules for starting a collab here even higher."

At 7/8/08 10:06 AM, CaptinChu wrote:
On the other hand, there can be something like a collab-hosting license for people who qualify.

Surely this would be an over complicated system thats not that important.

I think if this topic was full of people saying I hate collabs, then fine we should continue pressing for something to stop them, but it certainly isnt. Reading through this topic its not a clear cut decision. Until a large majority of people want it, which obviously isnt the case, then nothing need be done.

My opinion stands that collabs are a waste of space though.

They locked the petition - they're obviously not interested

At 7/8/08 10:10 AM, UnknownFury wrote: NGCollabs was quite successful until it went down.

It's still up, just not as a .net. Perhaps we should start directing more people there...

At 7/8/08 10:15 AM, CaiWengi wrote:

At 7/8/08 10:06 AM, CaptinChu wrote:
On the other hand, there can be something like a collab-hosting license for people who qualify.

Surely this would be an over complicated system thats not that important.

I think if this topic was full of people saying I hate collabs, then fine we should continue pressing for something to stop them, but it certainly isnt. Reading through this topic its not a clear cut decision. Until a large majority of people want it, which obviously isnt the case, then nothing need be done.

My opinion stands that collabs are a waste of space though.

as far as i can tell, the general opinion adn this is certainly my opinion, is that collabs are ok, but they are clogging up the flash forum..we dont want to get rid of them, we merely want to relocate them...

At 7/8/08 10:17 AM, M00SHEEP wrote: They locked the petition - they're obviously not interested

Check your PMs and stop bitching!

I did And im not bitching about the thread being locked, I'm bitching that your obviously not going to change it

At 7/8/08 10:21 AM, M00SHEEP wrote: I did And im not bitching about the thread being locked, I'm bitching that your obviously not going to change it

Kirk is a mod. Admins are the ones that makes these decisions. He just locks threads and bans fools.

i spose if we want this, we'll have to PM either Tom, Wade, Jim, Tim or Rob, the "official" admin. Kirk would prob kill you though. A bit like what Courtney Love did to his homonym!

At 7/8/08 10:18 AM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote:

At 7/8/08 10:10 AM, UnknownFury wrote: NGCollabs was quite successful until it went down.

It's still up, just not as a .net. Perhaps we should start directing more people there...

Yeah, I know it was still up I just thought it was near death. But I suppose its still just about going. Prehaps if we started directing people there again it might get it back up and running and loosen the strain on this forum.

I remember the days where everyone used to know about NG collabs and redirect those who weren't qualified to start a collab.

I'll PM Tom

At 7/8/08 10:31 AM, M00SHEEP wrote: I'll PM Tom

you're more likely to get a reply from someone with less on their mind, like Jim, or Tim, or Wade, he is, after all, the PR guy

Ill PM THEM ALL MWHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA

At 7/8/08 10:35 AM, M00SHEEP wrote: Ill PM THEM ALL MWHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA

yay! we can FIVE collab forum sections!

I have sent PM's to both Tom and wade fulp.
Hopefully they will read them.
Might send more if I get around to it.

Time to throw in my opinion.

I agree with Fion here. Who cares if there are more collabs in the flash forum? Rut Roh! You have to scroll! Sure if we handed the collabs off to someone else it would be easier for us, but what about for that forum we hand them off too. Your complaining about collabs taking over the flash forum so that you guys can't get your questions answered? How does that work, considering you still get answers.?

You can't group all collabs together as a pile of shit, because some of the collabs have hard work put into them. Are you guys saying that the MGS collab was just a waste of space because they made a news post about it? Because thats pretty much what your saying. Even if some collab ideas don't sound like the most intelligent thing in the world, it still has a chance of turning out well. Like this one. They drew pictures using red lines, doesn't sound too amazing does it? Yet, it still turned out great!

As for your example in the programming forum. Isn't that different? Collabs still deal with flash, while Actionscript doesn't deal with html, xml, and all of the languages they are talking about. Plus it even says in the description to keep your actionscript in the flash forum. In the flash forum description it doesn't say not to post collabs does it?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the flash forum is the place where collabs should be. Even the crappy ones.