Raise minimum BA for collabs

[Rustygames]

Raise it to 4.0. That should filter out a lot of this shit.

Any thoughts?

[Lochie]

At 7/8/08 06:08 AM, Rustygames wrote: Raise it to 4.0. That should filter out a lot of this shit.

That would fix the threads.
But it would lead to more spam in the portal for people to get bigger BA's.

[Kuoke]

That would, just a tad, kill the whole 'Everything by Everyone' theme.
But I would have to agree with you on the filtering out the crap thing. I would probably just suggest another rule?
What if someone flukes three 4.0's, and has no collaborating experience?

[M00SHEEP]

But some collabs are awsome and they have a low BA
There will allways be crap thats why you vote 0

[Darkdiablo]

It surly will kill off all the boring ones, and will highlight the much better ones straight away.

/signed

[Insanimation]

but isnt the beauty of collabs that people that aren't necessarily excellent can join together to make a better animation, like a sports team with no outstanding players, but work well as a team...

but maybe make it that their average has to be 3.5, but thats their top 3 solo projects...or something along those lines

[KaynSlamdyke]

At 7/8/08 06:08 AM, Rustygames wrote: Raise it to 4.0. That should filter out a lot of this shit.

Any thoughts?

We only just raised it to 3.5 with a solo submission scoring just as high in preperation for the summer boredom prompting a lot of collaberations. I'll still be locking the ones that get bumped up with no activity though on a case by case basis.

[Paranoia]

Remember - we're just talking about collab threads here. People are still perfectly free to start and maintain collabs outside of the NG Flash forums.

[Aethios]

i think this is kind of like ethnic cleansing for people who aren't-so-great at flash, yet still have untapped potential

i think it's fine as it is

[M00SHEEP]

Its pretty much like stopping a child going to school.
It isnt good now butit will be with learning and practice.

[CaiWengi]

I definately agree, the leader should be decent animator, or he doesnt deserve to lead.

Collabs are alot of the time excuses for idiots to pass crap through the portal.

[UnknownFury]

At 7/8/08 07:10 AM, CaiWengi wrote: Collabs are alot of the time excuses for idiots to pass crap through the portal.

Thats true. I dislike people with high BAs when all their entries are collabs.

[Rustygames]

At 7/8/08 06:40 AM, Paranoia wrote: Remember - we're just talking about collab threads here. People are still perfectly free to start and maintain collabs outside of the NG Flash forums.

That's exactly what i'm saying :D

At 7/8/08 06:18 AM, M00SHEEP wrote: But some collabs are awsome and they have a low BA
There will allways be crap thats why you vote 0

But there is no way of blamming topics...

[Fion]

I think it's pretty clear that batting average is in now way an indication of an animators ability to run a collaboration and in fact, in no way reflects an animators skills in animating.

- Some faggot who submitted three single frame flashes on clockday :::: BA = 4.04
- Collab whore who puts in next to no effort but joins every collab on site :::: BA = 4.01
- Dude who made some excellent animations but they were featured on the front page and some disagreed with these decisions :::: BA = 3.46

Batting average doesn't mean anything any more, about time we came to grips with that.

[M00SHEEP]

Fions right :3
The really good people who put alot of effort into thier work get low scores because people dont like them

[WolfAkela]

Not to mention, they can easily vote-whore their own submissions.

[Nicholas-Deary]

4.00 is probably a bit too high for most artists.

[Rustygames]

At 7/8/08 07:42 AM, Fion wrote: I think it's pretty clear that batting average is in now way an indication of an animators ability to run a collaboration and in fact, in no way reflects an animators skills in animating.

- Some faggot who submitted three single frame flashes on clockday :::: BA = 4.04
- Collab whore who puts in next to no effort but joins every collab on site :::: BA = 4.01
- Dude who made some excellent animations but they were featured on the front page and some disagreed with these decisions :::: BA = 3.46

Batting average doesn't mean anything any more, about time we came to grips with that.

You're right, too many spammers have high BA's.

Then I fall back to plan B, we ban collab topics from the flash forum and banish them to another forum (such as clubs and crews). They just clog up the place and make it difficult for everyone

[CaiWengi]

I agree with plan b then.

Its annoying to sift through loads of collab topics to get to a decent flash one. Especially when alot of them are absolutely awful ideas run by 12 year olds.

[M00SHEEP]

How about a new forum called 'collabs' where people start thier collabs and so on... leaving the flash forum to helping people and showing off

[Insanimation]

At 7/8/08 08:58 AM, M00SHEEP wrote: How about a new forum called 'collabs' where people start thier collabs and so on... leaving the flash forum to helping people and showing off

i agree, i think that it's time somebody PMed either a mod (not sure if they can start whole new topics, though probably can) or a member of staff....

[Rustygames]

At 7/8/08 08:58 AM, M00SHEEP wrote: How about a new forum called 'collabs' where people start thier collabs and so on... leaving the flash forum to helping people and showing off

I think that idea has been suggested and admin declined it.

Banning collabs to clubs and crews for now would work good I think. We just need the mods / admins to agree. Like you said, flash forum is for helping people and showing off our maaaaad skills :P

[M00SHEEP]

Well in my case.. slightly average skills :D
I help people by stating the obvious most the time aswell :D

[Paranoia]

At 7/8/08 07:42 AM, Fion wrote: I think it's pretty clear that batting average is in now way an indication of an animators ability to run a collaboration and in fact, in no way reflects an animators skills in animating.

- Some faggot who submitted three single frame flashes on clockday :::: BA = 4.04
- Collab whore who puts in next to no effort but joins every collab on site :::: BA = 4.01
- Dude who made some excellent animations but they were featured on the front page and some disagreed with these decisions :::: BA = 3.46

Batting average doesn't mean anything any more, about time we came to grips with that.

You're right to an extent, but that's why a lot of the collab locking is left up to a mod's own judgement. If they think that someone's BA is down to spamming crappy submissions, or that they still don't know jack about leading a collab, the thread will still be locked. Similarly, if someone with a lower BA contacts a mod, they can still get permission to start a collab.

BAs might not be perfect, but they still represent a decent rule-of-thumb when it comes to getting an idea of someone's skill.

[Fion]

I don't think palming it off to the clubs and crews section is a very good solution to the problem, be it a temporary or permanent thing.

Honestly, you should just suck it up and scroll that little bit extra down the page to get passed the collabs, I don't see what the big hassle is.

[Gutya]

I don't see how collab topics are harming you or anyone else. It's pretty obvious which topics are collabs and it's easy for you not to click them, if you somehow manage to accidentally click them, most modern browsers have a 'back' button which allows you to easily navigate to the previous page quickly.

Newgrounds BBS is one of the only forums I know in which the members activley discourage activity. There's always someone complaining about something being posted too much. Too many collabs, too many help topics, too many 'rate my engine' topics, etc.

It's great that the Flash forum is active and people trying to stifle that are just dumb in my opinion. I always thought forums were meant to be posted on, but that's just me.

[Xeptic]

Hm, I never really understood all the hating on collaborations, the BA has been raised to 3.5 for a Solo Submission and the mods have been much harder on collab starters since then. I say it's alright the way it is now. You people act like this place gets flooded by collabs and the good topics get swallowed up by them... In case you haven't noticed, this place isn't the general forum, there are now only around 10 topics which has been posted in the last hour, it isn't very active. A little scrolling never killed anyone either. Also, if someone joins a collab which gets killed off before it's finished because of bad management though luck, that's just another lesson learned for that particular person. I fail to see the problem here.

[Rustygames]

At 7/8/08 09:26 AM, Fion wrote: I don't think palming it off to the clubs and crews section is a very good solution to the problem, be it a temporary or permanent thing.

Honestly, you should just suck it up and scroll that little bit extra down the page to get passed the collabs, I don't see what the big hassle is.

The big hassle is it is diluting an otherwise perfectly decent place to post questions and get abusive answers.

Collabs are off topic and uncreative so I just think there should be another designated area for them to soil.

[Paranoia]

At 7/8/08 09:26 AM, Fion wrote: Honestly, you should just suck it up and scroll that little bit extra down the page to get passed the collabs, I don't see what the big hassle is.

Really, collabs which don't go anywhere do a lot of harm to the creative side of the site. Newer users put a substantial amount of effort into parts for collabs which end up getting dropped because the starter doesn't know jack about leading anything, and end up avoiding future collabs or even development altogether.

I really hate seeing people getting caught up in optimism and making an effort for something which ends up being a big pile of wasted potential.

[Fion]

At 7/8/08 09:28 AM, Rustygames wrote: The big hassle is it is diluting an otherwise perfectly decent place to post questions and get abusive answers.

Collabs are off topic and uncreative so I just think there should be another designated area for them to soil.

I don't really think it very much effects the general function of the Flash forum, people who want to participate in collabs go into the collab threads people who don't don't. We pretty much keep ourselves separate anyway. If anything it may add a bit of helping, if collab whore hop on NG to check any updates on their collab they might just asnwer a few flash related questions while they are at it.