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At 7/6/08 11:45 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: I agree with JoS. But does JoS agree with me?

I think that no matter the cause, we should try to do something about it. If it even is something.

Also making our tools of living more efficient couldn't hurt.

I agree we are fucking up the planet, but I am not convinced human CO2 emissions are causing climate change. Not to mention anytime some strange weatehr pattern emerges people are like, see, look, climate change. Cold winter, climate change from human CO2, hot summer, climate change. Drought, climate change, hurricanes, climate change. You can't fucking blame every single weather event on climate change.

Next someone is going to say the weather patterns on Mars are a result of human activity on the planet.

At 7/6/08 11:45 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: I agree with JoS. But does JoS agree with me?

I think that no matter the cause, we should try to do something about it. If it even is something.

Also making our tools of living more efficient couldn't hurt.

Well, altering a natural process may have bad effects, so no, if GW is natural, we should not tamper with it.
And of course making tools of living better won't hurt, it would cause us to get more bang for our buck.

At 7/6/08 11:45 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: I think that no matter the cause, we should try to do something about it. If it even is something.

Also making our tools of living more efficient couldn't hurt.

What I would like to know is why is it that environmentalists think they are the only ones who are concerned with things such as clean air/water and reducing waste?

I saw Ted Nuggent speaking once and he basically said that the people who will make the environment better won't be an urban environmentalist but country boys and girls who have actually grown up close to/surrounded by nature. We call those people "conservationists" rather than environmentalists.

So in short while I am skeptical of GW/CC as a man-made phenomenon, I all about making more effecient gas engines and reducing waste.

At 7/6/08 07:18 AM, LastSpartan wrote:

At 7/4/08 12:45 PM, Pontificate wrote: Holocaust deniers, on the other hand, have no credible evidence that has not been debunked beforehand and inevitably are merely denying it to further their own ignorant, hate-filled agenda. This is why they are criticised and rightly so.

One name with proof, my friend.

Wait so that is the only thing you want? A proof? And you'll be convinced? Tell me how do the proof should look like, what is proof for you? There are plenty of proofs.
And sense the slightest doubt is enough to convince you it's wrong, if there's a chance of 0.001% that something is wrong, what would you choose, the 0.0001% of the 99.9999%?

Also, show me one proof that Spartans didn't have tails. Go.

At 7/6/08 04:10 AM, Sajberhippien wrote:

A note on this though: The greenhouse effect is a theory, and can't ever become a fact, because that's how science works.

Not true, if it is proven to be 100% valid, it becomes fact. Read below, maybe my next answer can clarify this.

But still, gravitation is also a theory. You DO consider it to be real despite it not being a fact, right?

Gravitation is a theory because we don't know why mass has a gravitational force and because gravity can be defied at extreme circumstances (ie matter near absolute zero, extreme pressure, gravitational behaviors at the possibility of a maximum temperature, etc...)

The greenhouse effect exists. It what makes us survive on this planet.

Don't assume the greenhouse effect and greenhouse gasses are the only explanation for why the Earth retains heat when plenty of non-trapping molecules like Ozone block heat from escaping Earth's system. This is why the current greehouse theory can never be fact because it's been proven false many times. Lalala we've seen this article a million times on the forums, and we've seen higher levels of GHGs since 1998..... so what's up?

i belive Global warming is partly natural and we are making it worse..i can´t wait until the ice breaks up and end up in the golf stream..YAY winter all year around snow, snow and more snow

At 7/6/08 06:41 PM, n64kid wrote:

At 7/6/08 04:10 AM, Sajberhippien wrote:

A note on this though: The greenhouse effect is a theory, and can't ever become a fact, because that's how science works.

Not true, if it is proven to be 100% valid, it becomes fact. Read below, maybe my next answer can clarify this.

Actually, nothing is ever proven to be 100% valid. Even gravitation is a theory...not a confirmed fact. Newtonian physics was replaced with Einsteinian phyisics and string theory or something else stands to replace the Einsteinian theory.

In short, nothing in science is conclusively proven.

I don't really care whether people believe in global warming or not - why not go green for the financial benefit to yourself and the people around you?

Tons of reasons to do it. Pisses me off that nobody has the determination or self-control to take care of it themselves.

At 7/6/08 07:15 PM, TheMason wrote:

Actually, nothing is ever proven to be 100% valid.

True, with regards to the scientific method. But hypothetically, take a mathematical theory like binomial theorem. If it can be proven at all parts of the universe, in all circumstances that it can be used, and remains true, it would become a fact. Putting scientific fact aside, theres objective truth, subjective truth, and partial truths. The theory of gravity is not proven 100%, yet on Earth's surface under conditions that haven't been manipulated to "extremes", gravity does exist and the magnitudes of the forces are explained in equation. So as far as gravity is concerned, there is atleast one situation where gravitational forces-or whatever you want to call them exist, and that the force comes from matter, making some well worded statement objective truth.

So back to my original point, the greenhouse effect is not a for sure thing, full of holes, and does not explain the phenomenon of climate change on Earth. It could never be proven 100% because it's been disproven atleast once. We should approach some of its theories with skepticism while trying to find other explanations for Earth's retainment of heat.

There's also the people that say it's just the apocalypse.

Haha.

I agree with pretty much everyone that quoted me.

I do however feel like, corporately, we head in selfish directions. I think that needs to be fixed. For example, why the fuck are there still cars when we have the technology to make completely efficient railroad/monorail systems?

Things like that. Like if you look at how fast computers advanced because they had monetary interest behind them, I wish we would apply that avidness to other fields. Especially transportation.

At 7/4/08 12:54 AM, zoolrule wrote: There is no such a thing as "creditable scientists" who deny Global Warming.

There are just Scientists that were paid high enough by the corporations.

o rly??

At 7/7/08 09:57 AM, LastSpartan wrote:

So I ask again: provide me evidence that one individual, any one individual, was actually gassed in a gas chamber.

evidence? WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU WANT? YOU DIDN'T ANSWER ME. FFS. HOW SHOULD I GET EVIDENCE?

I can give you 1.44 Million names of Jews that got into Auschwitz, and never got out, DID THEY ALL KILL THEMSELVES? They got into a camp that all the researches concluded was a gas chambers camp, and never got out.
You keep asking for proof, that fact that 6 Million Jews were murdered, got into these camps, never got out, there are testimonies from Nazi's that designed the gas chambers, there are notes found in the camps written by the Zondercommando.
What else do you want? What proof do you want? You want an interview of a Jew before he got into the gas camp? WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT?

A

And sinse the slightest doubt is enough to convince you it's wrong, if there's a chance of 0.001% that something is wrong, what would you choose, the 0.0001% of the 99.9999%?

As someone aspiring to be a doctor and a surgeon (and an amateur historian), I cannot settle for 0.0001% doubt. I have to be 100%, no, 1000% sure of something before I do anything. Before I believe anything. I've been like this my entire life. You'll have to provide some pretty damning evidence to prove to me that my thoughts and beliefs are wrong.

Some sculptor is enough to convince you he didn't have tail? I'm honestly disappointed, so many evidences, and still you deny the murder, but this one faked sculptor is enough Dr.Spartan?
Even here first paragraph, TAIL. I think there's a 0.00001% chance, and one thing i learned about you, is that you like to believe in the thing that makes LESS sense, therfore - Spartans had tails.

And i don't understand what the hell are you denying, i mean, if they weren't murdered, where the hell are they?

Yeah, I think that it will happen, but it is WAY exaggerated. The weather will just change and there'll be more storms and things. But it will eventually correct its self, just as it has done for 1000s of years. Because climate change is natural. You throwing a can on the floor or shoving some gas in the air isn't going to change anything.

This has gotten way too off topic. Stay on topic or Im closing this down. No more talk of gas chambers in Hitlers mustache or Spartans having tails.