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Forum Topic: sticky mk IV - getting it over with

(296 views • 29 replies)

This topic is 1 page long.

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thoughtpolice

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Posted at: 7/1/08 09:10 PM

thoughtpolice DARK LEVEL 10

Sign-Up: 03/24/03

Posts: 3,037

I'm not going to repeat what's been repeated.

The latest iteration of the sticky we wanted to put up got to this:

1) Topics should be clear and concise from the first post. Post titles about 
problems should follow the convention of "OBJECT - DIVERSION", where OBJECT 
describes the software or hardware that is in question, and DIVERSION describes 
how it is behaving differently than expected. You are only given 35 characters 
to make a good impression and to properly represent your thread, so use that 
space wisely.

BAD EXAMPLES:
"my laptop keeps crashing!!!"
"why won't this thing work?"
"help!"

GOOD EXAMPLES:
"C Pointers - Causing Segmentation Fault"
"PHP - Fatal Error on mysql_connect"
"Dell Inspiron E1705 with Vista crashing"
"Photoshop CS3 - Virtual Memory error"
"Ubuntu 7.10 - GRUB won't install"

2) Keep posts on-topic. There are many other forums on the NG BBS, and they 
cater to many different types of discussion. The Programming forum is for 
Programming, and, as such, should remain Programming-related. The NG BBS is a 
private community, and new posters should read the rules.

3) This is not, nor has it ever been, the place for ActionScript-related posts. 
Not only is that addressed in the forum description, but also by common sense. 
Those most well-equipped to answer a question about Adobe Flash are going to be 
those users in the Flash Forum.

4) Before asking questions related to any common topics (Javascript, Java, C++, 
PHP, etc.), use the search bar. Many questions have already been addressed. If 
there is not already a thread about your question, check Google. They have 
indexed billions of sites, and more than 300 million results are returned from 
the term "Programming" alone. More likely than not, your question has been 
addressed on at least one of those 300 million sites.

4a) If your question relates to one of the more common programming languages 
(PHP, C++, and Java, to be specific), look for PHP: Main, C++: Main, or Java: 
Main, respectively. The members of the Newgrounds community have already 
graciously compiled tutorials, as well as lists of references to make learning 
these languages easier. If your question is not covered in these topics, 
consider asking your question only AFTER you've searched Google and checked any 
and ALL relevant resources.

4b) If you only barely understand a topic, please do NOT feel that you should 
contribute to one of these Main threads. Firstly, the chances that you can 
explain the subject better than the 300 million sites on the web are very 
small. Secondly, and most importantly, you will most likely misrepresent 
information if you barely understand it yourself, and fighting misinformation 
is one of the most difficult aspects of teaching others.

5) If your research has returned nothing useful, and you feel that you are 
prepared to ask your question on the NG BBS, please provide information about 
your problem, the parameters (your hardware, OS, etc.), and describe ANY 
research you've done. Not only does this assure others that you have already 
attempted to find the answer yourself, but it helps others by pointing out 
which search terms will be unhelpful. No one wants to help someone who is 
unable to help themselves, so show some initiative, and your questions will be 
answered much more readily.

6) The NG BBS rules apply to each of its forums, and the Programming section is 
no exception. Questions or comments about web design are permissible, but 
please do not ask or beg others to see, become members of, or critique a 
personal new website (especially not if it is a Newgrounds clone. People like 
it on the NG BBS, and they are not leaving.).

7) Posting job offers is encouraged and allowed, but remember to post all 
relevant information: language required/requested, FULL job description (this 
includes a list of things to accomplish, a list of things that are optional, 
and the timeframe expected), and the amount the job pays. Qualified, 
professional programmers do not operate as a charity, and therefore will not be 
doing any work "pro bono publico".

7a) Likewise, administrative status in a new forum/website, prospective ad 
revenue, and/or free space on a personal site are not job incentives, and will 
not work (under any conditions) in lieu of physical currency. If an amount that 
is to be paid is not already in mind, do not offer the job on the NG BBS.

7b) Do not ask for others to produce an application for you (game, or 
otherwise). Similarly, the leader or initiator of a project should be prepared 
to do a large portion of the work (proportionally larger than the rest of the 
team combined). There is no room for "Project Manager" on any team that hopes 
to accomplish anything symbiotically.

8) Do not ask for specific code snippets. Questions which require specific code 
to solve should be supplemented with specific examples or attempts. This will 
demonstrate that there is a basic understanding of the problem at hand, as well 
as show that there was an attempt to find a solution. Specific errors will be 
more easily addressed this way, which will lead to a much more productive 
learning experience.

8a) Solutions for homework assignments will not be given. Help with 
understanding a concept or assistance with debugging code related to an 
assignment is acceptable, but requests for whole solutions to assignments 
posted verbatim will not be taken seriously.

Personally I think this is a pretty fine revision and accurately reflects what we need to convey in such a topic.

Because of that, if nobody has objections to what's contained in the above, it will basically be under a short grammatical review before I PM it to liljim and tell him to put it up here as the real deal. The reason being we've been through this four times already and I think we need to put the damn thing up already.

That said, anybody is free to add/change something, but just to make this go quickly I'm going to filter this input. If I get nothing but bullshit requests from you guys, it'll go up as is. There shouldn't be much that really needs tweaking, so if you have something to say, make it good before I PM this to 'jim.

thanks 'bekko.
Xbox Live gamertag: muffin noodle
the empty set


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authorblues

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Posted at: 7/1/08 09:13 PM

authorblues FAB LEVEL 12

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Posts: 6,317

you go, girl. as always, im pleased.

my blog. smash code: 3523-1700-9216 [AUTHR]

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nns357

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Posted at: 7/1/08 10:27 PM

nns357 NEUTRAL LEVEL 01

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Posts: 91

It sucks.


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authorblues

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Posted at: 7/2/08 12:14 AM

authorblues FAB LEVEL 12

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Posts: 6,317

At 7/1/08 10:27 PM, nns357 wrote: It sucks.

if you would like to be more constructive with your feedback, there is always the chance that some of your opinions could go into making it better. we always welcome helpful replies.

my blog. smash code: 3523-1700-9216 [AUTHR]

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blah569

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Posted at: 7/2/08 12:19 AM

blah569 DARK LEVEL 15

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Posts: 2,058

I found the post rather interesting, and hopefully if this topic did become such of a sticky, that many people would read the post, thus preventing topics without clear titles, or topics that are posted in the incorrect forum.

PHP: Main | AS: Main | AS3: Main | Get Firefox
I know that "Internet" is mispelled.

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djconnect

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Posted at: 7/2/08 01:32 AM

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Posts: 397

The only problem I see with the post is it is very long. I being an active NGer read the entire post, but people new to NG or the BBS don't want to read a large list of rules. So they might ignore them and proceed anyways. That being said I also think that was a very well thought out and clear post.

Connect To A New Age In Hip-Hop!

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Jon-86

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Posted at: 7/2/08 05:25 AM

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Posts: 1,710

Freaky a was going to bump that thread yesterday but couldnt be arsed!

PHP Main :: C++ Main :: Java Main :: BLOGS..! "For people who want to whine,
when there's nobody there to listen"
- authorblues

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thoughtpolice

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Posted at: 7/2/08 07:22 AM

thoughtpolice DARK LEVEL 10

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At 7/2/08 01:32 AM, djconnect wrote: The only problem I see with the post is it is very long. I being an active NGer read the entire post, but people new to NG or the BBS don't want to read a large list of rules. So they might ignore them and proceed anyways. That being said I also think that was a very well thought out and clear post.

This has crossed my mind several times, as I'm sure it has others.

The primary problem I feel is, tbh, pretty simple: programming is just a bit complicated. When you're dealing with a problem that has so many variables and potential places of failure, you kind of need to be explicit about things like your environment, and you REALLY need to be precise as to the central issue: what's going wrong, why does this fail, what you need help with, etc. etc..
Technical issues aside, without a sticky, the programming forum carries with it some misconceptions I feel. No, we aren't here to help you with your homework and no, we really don't care about your job unless you're paying. No, we're not here about flash either.

The sticky is here to address both sides of the coin.

Simply put, there are just a few stipulations in place and a lot of necessary information that's required if you really want to get along on the forums, and the sticky is there to point that out. All the stickies in the forums are. Ours just happens to be a bit longer than the others.

Having said that, I might go through the article and cut down what might just be some 'extra fat,' but I can't promise a lot. Even if I do cut it down, I would wager it to still be considerably longer than the stickies the other forums have, due to the above.

Finally: on the note of people 'just skipping it and going on with life,' there's nothing stopping that aside from obligatory and enforced page redirection on say, the first visit or so which is a pretty lame attempt at making people read it anyways. The sticky is there as a guideline. If you don't follow it, I'm sorry, you could have helped yourself and chances are what you are doing that is violating it will be restricted or simply removed.

thanks 'bekko.
Xbox Live gamertag: muffin noodle
the empty set


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elbekko

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Posted at: 7/2/08 07:26 AM

elbekko EVIL LEVEL 16

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Posts: 6,447

As before, it's excellent =)

"My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. " - Unknown

[ PHP: Main | Omigod, a blog ]

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nns357

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Posted at: 7/2/08 06:11 PM

nns357 NEUTRAL LEVEL 01

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Posts: 91

You want some fucking crit you fool? Try this...

THIS FORUM IS SLOW AS HELL. There is NO reason someone would come here to read the rules for a simple question, they will just ask it. I would love to get the amount of views on the General forum sticky (Unique Views,) and the number of threads locked and total threads made since that sticky was put up... Then you could all whip out your calculators to realize how little it will actually help. K, bai.


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Afro-Ninja

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Posted at: 7/2/08 06:22 PM

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Looks great... perhaps dumbing it down a bit wouldn't hurt, but I'm tempted to think that people are either going to read it or they're not.

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Jessii

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Posted at: 7/2/08 06:27 PM

Jessii DARK LEVEL 32

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Posts: 8,424

I'm thinking that people won't read it at all. Hell, they can't even read forum descriptions! The sticky is still a good idea for those who may actually read it when they visit for the first time.

False-Positive - life is random and so am I
P.S. I lost the GAME!
irc.freenode.net #ngprogramming


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Jon-86

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Posted at: 7/2/08 06:32 PM

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Thats true, but when answering the obvious their will always be a convienient place to quote from and link them to. Then they can read it and reply again in their thread with a better question!

PHP Main :: C++ Main :: Java Main :: BLOGS..! "For people who want to whine,
when there's nobody there to listen"
- authorblues

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BoneIdol

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Posted at: 7/2/08 06:45 PM

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At 7/2/08 06:32 PM, Jon-86 wrote: Thats true, but when answering the obvious their will always be a convienient place to quote from and link them to. Then they can read it and reply again in their thread with a better question!

Only they won't. They'll post the question in the most stupid format possible, look on google while they wait for a reply and find something, never to return again.

Either that or call you a fag then go have a crafty wank while a flame war breaks out.

Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.


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nns357

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Posted at: 7/2/08 11:49 PM

nns357 NEUTRAL LEVEL 01

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Posts: 91

At 7/2/08 06:45 PM, BoneIdol wrote: Either that or call you a fag then go have a crafty wank while a flame war breaks out.

Things are finally being seen my way.


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authorblues

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Posted at: 7/3/08 02:19 AM

authorblues FAB LEVEL 12

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Posts: 6,317

At 7/2/08 11:49 PM, nns357 wrote: Things are finally being seen my way.

try not to be so negative. laying down basic rules isnt just so that everyone will read them and all problems will end. no one thinks that. its just a helpful place to refer people to and to be able to say "yes, these rules are posted somewhere, and here is where you can read them."

no, not everyone reads or knows all of the laws for their particular government, and frankly, i dont think they are expected to. the idea is that you cant complain that you were never given a way of knowing because they are available to everyone.

there is no need to be so negative when all we are trying to do is help. try to lighten up a bit, please.

my blog. smash code: 3523-1700-9216 [AUTHR]

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CronoMan

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Posted at: 7/3/08 02:35 AM

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It's a bit long, don't you think?

"no sound in ass"


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Captcovert

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Posted at: 7/3/08 04:16 AM

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4b should not, IMHO be specifically related to Main threads, but to any thread.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand Binary, and Those who don't.

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Jon-86

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Posted at: 7/3/08 04:50 AM

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At 7/2/08 06:45 PM, BoneIdol wrote: Either that or call you a fag then go have a crafty wank while a flame war breaks out.

Flame wars dont really break out here. "craffty wank" ^_^ a crafyy fag maybe... Never heard of a crafty wank. It would take me too long to be crafty anyway :P While they might do that. That still dosnt take away from the fact most of us will have something that makes life easier, and saves people posting / people replying some time!

PHP Main :: C++ Main :: Java Main :: BLOGS..! "For people who want to whine,
when there's nobody there to listen"
- authorblues

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DannyIsOnFire

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Posted at: 7/3/08 09:41 AM

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Gets a thumbs up from me, and we all know that's what you people have been waiting for.
Also, while I'm here and authorblues is here, whats your problem with captial letters AB? I've wondered for a while now. Did you have a horrific incident as a child involving them and are now mentally scarred?

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nns357

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Posted at: 7/3/08 04:44 PM

nns357 NEUTRAL LEVEL 01

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At 7/3/08 04:50 AM, Jon-86 wrote: Flame wars dont really break out here.

I lol'd. 9 time.

At 7/3/08 02:19 AM, authorblues wrote: try not to be so negative.

Fhanks.

laying down

Laying UP?!?!


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authorblues

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Posted at: 7/3/08 08:26 PM

authorblues FAB LEVEL 12

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At 7/3/08 09:41 AM, DannyIsOnFire wrote: Also, while I'm here and authorblues is here, whats your problem with captial letters AB? I've wondered for a while now. Did you have a horrific incident as a child involving them and are now mentally scarred?

Capital letters are just fine. I just took a cost benefit analysis and realized that I type faster when I don't have to worry about capital letters and apostrophes. It is just my way of saving milliseconds. They add up over time. But, since it is important to you, for one time, and one time only, I have typed in traditional sentence case for this entire post.

my blog. smash code: 3523-1700-9216 [AUTHR]

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WoogieNoogie

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Posted at: 7/4/08 03:59 AM

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For everyone that says "people won't read the sticky", I've found that it doesn't really matter too much. I've seen a ton of "how do i make flash?" topics, when right above the Flash forum is the sticky telling all the information.

However, there are the people that read it, and they're the ones that start contributing well...we've had a surge of them lately, and the sticky would just encourage it. The idiots will stay the same, nothing's gonna change that. But the ones that actually care are who we care about.

And might I add...
omfgauthorbluestypedwithcapitals.


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thoughtpolice

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Posted at: 7/7/08 01:56 AM

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I apologize for my absence in the topic (unforseen family problems) which has prevented me from commenting or actually getting it to 'jim.

I agree that 4b should be revised to address all threads, not just Main threads.

I also do think it is honestly a bit verbose; I'm going to my sister's for a few days so I'll have some free time to do editorial work. If anybody has any more comments, please post and I'll be sure to put up the final draft before PM'ing 'jim.

thanks 'bekko.
Xbox Live gamertag: muffin noodle
the empty set


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GuitarMuffin

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Posted at: 7/7/08 02:06 AM

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Shouldn't make that post so long because a lot of NG'ers won't read things that long so you should put a TL;DR for all those lazy-ass users.


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WoogieNoogie

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Posted at: 7/7/08 03:00 AM

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Posts: 3,194

At 7/7/08 02:06 AM, GuitarMuffin wrote: Shouldn't make that post so long because a lot of NG'ers won't read things that long so you should put a TL;DR for all those lazy-ass users.

No.


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thoughtpolice

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Posted at: 7/10/08 10:15 PM

thoughtpolice DARK LEVEL 10

Sign-Up: 03/24/03

Posts: 3,037

Okay, I'm back (to leave again in a moment.) Here's some of the tuning I've done:

1) Topics should be clear and concise from the first post. Titles should be precise, describing what you are using, and what's going wrong. You are only given 35 characters 
to make a good impression and to properly represent your thread, so use that 
space wisely. Examples:

BAD EXAMPLES:
"my laptop keeps crashing!!!"
"why won't this thing work?"
"help!"

GOOD EXAMPLES:
"C Pointers - Causing Segmentation Fault"
"PHP - Fatal Error on mysql_connect"
"Dell Inspiron E1705 with Vista crashing"
"Photoshop CS3 - Virtual Memory error"
"Ubuntu 7.10 - GRUB won't install"

2) Keep posts on-topic. There are many other forums on the NG BBS, and they 
cater to many different types of discussion. The Programming forum is for 
Programming, and, as such, should remain Programming-related.

3) This is not, nor has it ever been, the place for ActionScript-related posts. 
Not only is that addressed in the forum description, but also by common sense. 
Those most well-equipped to answer a question about Adobe Flash are going to be 
those users in the Flash Forum.

4) Before asking questions related to any common topics (Javascript, Java, C++, 
PHP, etc.), use the search bar. Many questions have already been addressed. If 
there is not already a thread about your question, check Google. The internet is big, chances are your problem has cropped up before and has been answered.

4a) If your question relates to one of the more common programming languages 
(PHP, C++, and Java, to be specific), look for PHP: Main, C++: Main, or Java: 
Main, respectively. The members of the Newgrounds community have already 
graciously compiled tutorials, as well as lists of references to make learning 
these languages easier. If what you're looking for isn't there, continue your research before making a topic.

4b) If you only barely understand a topic, please be careful when constructing a reply to it, and if possible, check what you know as well. First, the chances that you can explain the subject better than the 300 million sites on the web are very 
small. Secondly, and most importantly, you will most likely misrepresent 
information if you barely understand it yourself, and fighting misinformation 
is one of the most difficult aspects of teaching others.

5) If your research has returned nothing useful, and you feel that you are 
prepared to ask your question on the NG BBS, please provide information about 
your problem, the parameters (your hardware, OS, etc.), and describe ANY 
research you've done. If you can show you've given effort, we'll give effort too.

6) Posting job offers is encouraged and allowed, but remember to post all 
relevant information: language required/requested, FULL job description (this 
includes a list of things to accomplish, a list of things that are optional, 
and the timeframe expected), and the amount the job pays. This isn't a charity; asking for a piece of code or advice is one thing, expecting someone to write thousands of lines of code for you with no compensation is another.

6a) Likewise, administrative status in a new forum/website, prospective ad 
revenue, and/or free space on a personal site are not job incentives, and will 
not work (under any conditions) in lieu of physical currency. If an amount that 
is to be paid is not already in mind, do not offer the job on the NG BBS.

6b) Do not ask for others to produce an application for you (game, or 
otherwise). If you would like to start a project, you should be prepared to do a large portion of the work, and show you understand it and are capable.

7) Do not ask for specific code snippets. Questions which require specific code 
to solve should be supplemented with specific examples or attempts. This will show you're motivated, and it will be more worthwhile to you if your learn how *your* code is wrong, not if you just know someone else's is right.

7a) Solutions for homework assignments will not be given. You can certainly ask for help with code you've written if it is for an assignment. Conning people into doing your homework isn't tolerable however.

thanks 'bekko.
Xbox Live gamertag: muffin noodle
the empty set


None

thoughtpolice

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 7/10/08 10:16 PM

thoughtpolice DARK LEVEL 10

Sign-Up: 03/24/03

Posts: 3,037

Okay, I'm back (to leave again in a moment.) Here's some of the tuning I've done:

1) Topics should be clear and concise from the first post. Titles should be precise, describing what you are using, and what's going wrong. You are only given 35 characters 
to make a good impression and to properly represent your thread, so use that 
space wisely. Examples:

BAD EXAMPLES:
"my laptop keeps crashing!!!"
"why won't this thing work?"
"help!"

GOOD EXAMPLES:
"C Pointers - Causing Segmentation Fault"
"PHP - Fatal Error on mysql_connect"
"Dell Inspiron E1705 with Vista crashing"
"Photoshop CS3 - Virtual Memory error"
"Ubuntu 7.10 - GRUB won't install"

2) Keep posts on-topic. There are many other forums on the NG BBS, and they 
cater to many different types of discussion. The Programming forum is for 
Programming, and, as such, should remain Programming-related.

3) This is not, nor has it ever been, the place for ActionScript-related posts. 
Not only is that addressed in the forum description, but also by common sense. 
Those most well-equipped to answer a question about Adobe Flash are going to be 
those users in the Flash Forum.

4) Before asking questions related to any common topics (Javascript, Java, C++, 
PHP, etc.), use the search bar. Many questions have already been addressed. If 
there is not already a thread about your question, check Google. The internet is big, chances are your problem has cropped up before and has been answered.

4a) If your question relates to one of the more common programming languages 
(PHP, C++, and Java, to be specific), look for PHP: Main, C++: Main, or Java: 
Main, respectively. The members of the Newgrounds community have already 
graciously compiled tutorials, as well as lists of references to make learning 
these languages easier. If what you're looking for isn't there, continue your research before making a topic.

4b) If you only barely understand a topic, please be careful when constructing a reply to it, and if possible, check what you know as well. First, the chances that you can explain the subject better than the 300 million sites on the web are very 
small. Secondly, and most importantly, you will most likely misrepresent 
information if you barely understand it yourself, and fighting misinformation 
is one of the most difficult aspects of teaching others.

5) If your research has returned nothing useful, and you feel that you are 
prepared to ask your question on the NG BBS, please provide information about 
your problem, the parameters (your hardware, OS, etc.), and describe ANY 
research you've done. If you can show you've given effort, we'll give effort too.

6) Posting job offers is encouraged and allowed, but remember to post all 
relevant information: language required/requested, FULL job description (this 
includes a list of things to accomplish, a list of things that are optional, 
and the timeframe expected), and the amount the job pays. This isn't a charity; asking for a piece of code or advice is one thing, expecting someone to write thousands of lines of code for you with no compensation is another.

6a) Likewise, administrative status in a new forum/website, prospective ad 
revenue, and/or free space on a personal site are not job incentives, and will 
not work (under any conditions) in lieu of physical currency. If an amount that 
is to be paid is not already in mind, do not offer the job on the NG BBS.

6b) Do not ask for others to produce an application for you (game, or 
otherwise). If you would like to start a project, you should be prepared to do a large portion of the work, and show you understand it and are capable.

7) Do not ask for specific code snippets. Questions which require specific code 
to solve should be supplemented with specific examples or attempts. This will show you're motivated, and it will be more worthwhile to you if your learn how *your* code is wrong, not if you just know someone else's is right.

7a) Solutions for homework assignments will not be given. You can certainly ask for help with code you've written if it is for an assignment. Conning people into doing your homework isn't tolerable however.

thanks 'bekko.
Xbox Live gamertag: muffin noodle
the empty set


None

authorblues

Reply To Post Reply & Quote

Posted at: 7/11/08 02:26 AM

authorblues FAB LEVEL 12

Sign-Up: 06/21/05

Posts: 6,317

can we please get this shit over with? im really bored of talking about the sticky. the case just seems to be that no one in any position to grant us a sticky is interested in us having one. or more likely, it is more fun to watch us beg for something we are likely to never get.

so either give us a sticky, oh administrating gods, or explain to us why this attempt at appeasing you is unsatisfactory. we will do our best to satiate your thirst for perfection.

my blog. smash code: 3523-1700-9216 [AUTHR]

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thoughtpolice

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Posted at: 7/12/08 07:47 PM

thoughtpolice DARK LEVEL 10

Sign-Up: 03/24/03

Posts: 3,037

Since apparently nobody had any outstanding objections, I pm'd this to 'jim.

thanks 'bekko.
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the empty set


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