Question for christians

[wdfcverfgtghm]

To all you christians, I Was wondering how do you react to lies by the church? Such as How christmass is on the 25th of decemeber not becuase that was when jesus was born but becuase Roman emporer Constantine to distract pagans. This is just one example. Do you just belive in the ideal not in the exact words? Or do you Acually belive things like this even though it has no connection to the scriptures?

[reddeadrevolver]

At 7/4/01 11:28 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote: To all you christians, I Was wondering how do you react to lies by the church? Such as How christmass is on the 25th of decemeber not becuase that was when jesus was born but becuase Roman emporer Constantine to distract pagans. This is just one example. Do you just belive in the ideal not in the exact words? Or do you Acually belive things like this even though it has no connection to the scriptures?

The church has always had to lie to its people. By lying, they cover up the truth, and are more easily able to gain followers.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/5/01 03:42 PM, Tyrant_Nero wrote:

At 7/4/01 11:28 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote: To all you christians, I Was wondering how do you react to lies by the church? Such as How christmass is on the 25th of decemeber not becuase that was when jesus was born but becuase Roman emporer Constantine to distract pagans. This is just one example. Do you just belive in the ideal not in the exact words? Or do you Acually belive things like this even though it has no connection to the scriptures?

The church has always had to lie to its people. By lying, they cover up the truth, and are more easily able to gain followers.

Yah... That's a good point, Everyone already knows that but it doesn't answer the question. The question is, how do Christians act when their church blatantly lies to them? Do they just simply belive it even though it has nothing to do with the original scriptures? Use the example of Christmass or use a diffrent one please.

[IamJacksalias]

Well first of all that wasn't the church giving false info was the Roman emperor. So you can't blame the church for that. Secondly i think you mean how does the Roman Catholic church react to blatan lies. You see i think the Roman Catholic church is very close to a cult. They believe in ceremony and tradition more than the actual scripture. My church does not lie to me about things. You have to understand the different denominations believe in different things that are not specifically outlined in the scripure such as speaking in tongues or baptism and so on. Any specfifc questions feel free to ask and I will try me best to answer them.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/5/01 04:55 PM, IamJacksalias wrote: Well first of all that wasn't the church giving false info was the Roman emperor.

^ THis I already stated.

And No I don't mean how the catholic church relates to lies. I mean how the individual christian reacts to lies that their told by other earthly humans that are taken to be known as religious fact.

And I already Asked a specific question. The example of Christmass.

How does the individual christian react to christmass which is soppose to be about jesus's birth but in fact no where in the scriptures does it state that, in stead constantine created christmass on the 25th. Do you Take this to be truth even though it has no connection to god? Or do you just belive in the ideal and practice the tradition of christmass simply becuase of tradition but don't acually belive in it?

[shorbe]

I'll get the exact references by chapter and verse, but here's one quote from the Bible.

"He dwelleth not in temples made by human hands." Church comes from the Greek word Eclesiastes, which means nothing to do with a building but to do with people. Almost all churches have distorted that though.

Likewise, Christianity was never supposed to be about heirarchies. We all know who is supposed to be at the top, and that doesn't include humans. It's all a big power trip.

Anyhow, I'll get the exact references on these some time soon.

shorbe

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/5/01 11:39 PM, shorbe wrote: I'll get the exact references by chapter and verse, but here's one quote from the Bible.

"He dwelleth not in temples made by human hands." Church comes from the Greek word Eclesiastes, which means nothing to do with a building but to do with people. Almost all churches have distorted that though.

Likewise, Christianity was never supposed to be about heirarchies. We all know who is supposed to be at the top, and that doesn't include humans. It's all a big power trip.

Anyhow, I'll get the exact references on these some time soon.

shorbe

Ahh shorbe always a pleasure, enlightening us fools with your fancy " facts " and " proof ". May I remind you though the question I was asking, and have yet to be answerd, is how does the individual christian deal with such lies? Not to establish that christianity is built on lies. Nothing against you, or against christianity but I honestly want to know how christians opporate when learning of they're religion built on such falsehood.

[Anarchon]

At 7/4/01 11:28 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote: To all you christians, I Was wondering how do you react to lies by the church? Such as How christmass is on the 25th of decemeber not becuase that was when jesus was born but becuase Roman emporer Constantine to distract pagans. This is just one example. Do you just belive in the ideal not in the exact words? Or do you Acually belive things like this even though it has no connection to the scriptures?

im crhistian. but i dont support churches. no no no. hierarchical power forcing beliefs of christ = extremely hypocritical. i celebrate the birth of jesus during june 31. near when he was actually born. and i dont celebrate holidays such as valentines and saint patricks da. proposing that one person (the saint) is more worthy of eternal life than anyone else. plus i dont celebrate holidays that mock wiccan and pagan beliefs, such as april fools, or halloween. well.. i do celebrate halloween.. but thats with my satanist friends. im one fucked up christian. see.... i hold the wiccan belief that there is a clearing in a forest, and many apths to get there. the clearing is the higher power, whether it be god, bhudda, science, etc. and the paths are religions and beliefs. however... i believe that this higher power presents itself to different people in different ways. to me its anarchist christianity. thus... i take it a step further form there.

[Low-Budget-Superhero]

At 7/4/01 11:28 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote: To all you christians, I Was wondering how do you react to lies by the church?

It's called sleeping in on Sunday. I do it all the time!

Do you just belive in the ideal not in the exact words?

Pretty much, I myself believe more in Darwin than Genesis. In fact, some would say that the book of Genesis is mythology. The Bible was written by men, things get changed/left out when men write. Example: There is evidence... almost solid evidence... that Jesus had brothers and sisters. That's right! Brothers, and sisters, both plural! Either Mary wasn't a perfect virgin, or there is more than one child of God. Sorta' throws of the Trinity don't it? Although, one thing that really is quite stupid is the fact that Jesus is always portrayed as being white. Jesus was an Arab Jew! He was from the Middle East! I have never in my life seen a white person who is natively from Israel! I could go on and on... but it's late...

[IamJacksalias]

Jesus did have a brother. Mary had kids after she had Jesus. That has nothing to do with the fact that she wasn't a virgin when she had Jesus. About men changing/leving out things with the Bible. The only people that were allowed to transcibe the Bible were Levites, the priests. They had to copy it word for word, if it wasn't word for word or they made a mistake the copy was burned. Also if you look at old copies of the Bible they match up with the new copies of the Bible. If you want to talk about the different translations feel free, but I'm not getting into that now.

[BunnyInnards]

Not going to bother to quote any of this shit. The reason jesus and mary and everybody else was portrayed white is because the roman catholics were. They couldnt have anyone worshipping someone of an inferior race now could they? (that was sarcasm dipshits). There's alot in the bible that doesnt make sense. Especially the homosexuality thing. I hate how people pick and choose rules to follow. For example, the verse directly after the one that says any man that looks upon the nakedness of another man and within finds pleasure shall burn in hell says that he who touches the skin of pig shall burn in hell. So what is hell gonna be full of queers and football players? (sarcasm once again) Ill tell ya when i get there.

[IamJacksalias]

In response to the segments you mentioned the one about the pig is from the Old Testament. Now the one thing is a little hard to grasp in the Old Testament and New testament laws. For instance the pig thing. God said to the jews don't eat pork; it's unclean. One of jesus' deciples said something to him about pigs being unclean. Jesus said how dare you call one of my father's creations unclean. So can we eat pork? Yes. The New Testament changed that rule. Many things changed when Christ died on the cross and when he was born for that matter. We no longer had to sacrifice animals to God, Jesus was the last sacrifice. The pork thing changed. Many other things as well.
On to the homosexual thing. It does state in the bible that being a homosexual is a sin. It states that in either Leviticus or Deutoronomy, a few other places as well. However, it also states that adultry is a sin and so is fornication. So if you can follow my logic here God has a thing against pre-marital sex. Since a mariage is a church institiution and only men and women can be married, then you can't have gay marital sex. Get it?
I do agree with the picking and choosing of what you follow. That's what the New Age Movement is all about. Religion is a salad bar and I'm gonna take what I want. It's all or nothing.

[BunnyInnards]

religion shouldnt be a salad bar. You should either devote yourself to it wholeheartedly or leave it the fuck alone and dont bug other people about values and morals and right and wrong ... ignorant fuck.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/16/01 03:21 PM, BunnyInnards wrote: religion shouldnt be a salad bar. You should either devote yourself to it wholeheartedly or leave it the fuck alone and dont bug other people about values and morals and right and wrong ... ignorant fuck.

I disagree, I don't think that anyone should wholeheartedly apply their belives just becuase it's an established tradition or becuase a majority does so, Just beucase someone is religios doesn't mean they havet to belive everything, Blind faith is simply a guise to gain power.

[IamJacksalias]

At 7/16/01 03:21 PM, BunnyInnards wrote: religion shouldnt be a salad bar. You should either devote yourself to it wholeheartedly or leave it the fuck alone and dont bug other people about values and morals and right and wrong ... ignorant fuck.

One word SARCASM!. I agree with you pal. Picking and choosing makes no sense. How can you say I'll follow this rule but not that rule? By not following that rule you're saying that i don't believe it is right to follow it. If that isn't right then why are any of the rules dictated by that source right? They can't be. Makes no sense.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/17/01 02:54 PM, IamJacksalias wrote:

At 7/16/01 03:21 PM, BunnyInnards wrote: religion shouldnt be a salad bar. You should either devote yourself to it wholeheartedly or leave it the fuck alone and dont bug other people about values and morals and right and wrong ... ignorant fuck.

One word SARCASM!. I agree with you pal. Picking and choosing makes no sense. How can you say I'll follow this rule but not that rule? By not following that rule you're saying that i don't believe it is right to follow it. If that isn't right then why are any of the rules dictated by that source right? They can't be. Makes no sense.

I disagree, Blindly following what someone says just becuase it's tradition or simply becuase it is widespeard is follow. A person should look to himself to find what he belives is right, and what is wrong, what is morale and what is not. Not just look to someone for all the answers.

[BunnyInnards]

jack: sorry, now you know why i label my sarcasm

penguin: no time to reply now. I'll get back to you.

[IamJacksalias]

At 7/17/01 05:07 PM, BunnyInnards wrote: jack: sorry, now you know why i label my sarcasm

No problem, thanks for saying you are sorry, not many people would. That's really cool.
Anyway about the tradition thing. I agree that you need to thing and question what you believe. Just cause it's tradidition does not mean it is correct. A lot of the problems when dealing with people who think they know about Christians is that they think Roman Catholicism is Christianity. Roman Catholocism is the largest sect of Chrisitanity, but i believe it's almost a cult. All tradition and not much faith. I'm done for now.

[Timisoara]

At 7/18/01 05:02 PM, IamJacksalias wrote:

Roman Catholocism is the largest sect of Chrisitanity, but i believe it's almost a cult. All tradition and not much faith. I'm done for now.

I hope you know that Roman Catholicism is the grand daddy of western chrisitanity. (Jesus/2= Orthodox & Catholism : Catholism/alot = Catholism + all those sects of chrisitanity.) I assume you do but I've know others...

Now since I know your a man of god and not a catholic, can I ask a personal queston?
How'd ya pick your current religion? Parents, Lit., Friends? this should really be a new topic but what-the-hey, lets talk here.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/18/01 11:13 PM, Skewthat wrote:

At 7/18/01 05:02 PM, IamJacksalias wrote:

Roman Catholocism is the largest sect of Chrisitanity, but i believe it's almost a cult. All tradition and not much faith. I'm done for now.

I hope you know that Roman Catholicism is the grand daddy of western chrisitanity. (Jesus/2= Orthodox & Catholism : Catholism/alot = Catholism + all those sects of chrisitanity.) I assume you do but I've know others...

I already had this debate with anarchon. I was under the impression that ALL christian sects were steamed from greek orthadox or roman catholic. In fact there are some groups such as the zendik's who are christian and have no ties to the roman catholic churchs origins.

[IamJacksalias]

Now since I know your a man of god and not a catholic, can I ask a personal queston?
How'd ya pick your current religion? Parents, Lit., Friends? this should really be a new topic but what-the-hey, lets talk here.

Well basically it goes like this Christianity, all of it, has one core belief; Jesus Christ died for your sins and you believe he is the son of God that came down from Heaven etc. There are more beliefs, but i don't want to go into that now and it would take too long anyway. The different sects of Christianity (Roman Catholic, Baptists, Lutheran, Methodist, Congregational ect.) all hold that core belief, but have different beliefs on different issues such as baptism, speaking in tongues, the tribulation, and lots of other things. I picked my church based on what they believed on different things I mentioned above and some others. Odds are you won't find the perfect church; as the saying goes if you do, they won't want you there, but you can find one that is close. The things I mentioned above are things that are not clearly outlined in the Bible. They are not extremely important, if something is important in the bible it is clearly mentioned, not hinted at and repeated multiple times.
The reason I would stay away from the Roman Catholics is the fact they hold tradition higher than the Bible itself. they listen to the Pope. The believe he is the incarnation of Christ on Earth. What he says is Holy Law. Well let me tell you a little secret; the Pope is a fallaiable man, who is not different than you or I, except he gets to ride in that cool Popemobile. Any law the pope sets up is forever in the law and can't be changed. So back in the day and throughou church history you had corrupt Popes that set up laws simply to get money. this is a really long post. Any more questions feel free to bring 'em.

[wdfcverfgtghm]

Any more questions feel free to bring 'em.

You still haven't answerd the first question proposed and the entire topic of this post. Look at first post, and my original question about how the individual chrisitan deals with lies in the bible and from chuch etc...

[Timisoara]

At 7/717/01 02:54PM, IamJacksalias wrote:

:One word SARCASM!. I agree with you pal. Picking and choosing makes no sense. How can you say I'll follow this rule but not that rule? By not following that rule you're saying that i don't believe it is right to follow it. If that isn't right then why are any of the rules dictated by that source right? They can't be. Makes no sense.

At 7/19/01 05:16 PM, IamJacksalias wrote:

:...I picked my church based on what they believed on different things I mentioned above and some others. Odds are you won't find the perfect church; as the saying goes if you do, they won't want you there, but you can find one that is close...

Hey man, you played pick and choose with your faith why can't others do it for there's, or for that matter their ethics?

You see religion is a faith thang, not a fact thang, so one's choice in church, or god, or whatever, is colored by how they grew up not by if their god is supreme ruler.

Oh yes, and to clairfy future arguments I am agnostic.

[IamJacksalias]

You still haven't answerd the first question proposed and the entire topic of this post. Look at first post, and my original question about how the individual chrisitan deals with lies in the bible and from chuch etc...

What lies in the Bible? As for "the Church" you have to understand that there is no giant entity that is "the Church". So your question doesn't make much sense. As to the Christmass thing i celebrate it on the 25th and give presents, but i know that isn't when Christ was born. To me the celebrating is important, not the actual day. The ideals and the ideas are more important than the means. I got nothing else right now.

[TheGiantPeach]

At 7/4/01 11:28 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote: To all you christians, I Was wondering how do you react to lies by the church? Such as How christmass is on the 25th of decemeber not becuase that was when jesus was born but becuase Roman emporer Constantine to distract pagans. This is just one example. Do you just belive in the ideal not in the exact words? Or do you Acually belive things like this even though it has no connection to the scriptures?

I really couldn't give a flying fuck when Christmas is. But the idea behind Christmas is dead. CHRIST mas. Now it's about getting shit you don't need, rather than celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. What about Presidents's day? Those presidents don't have thier birthday on that day, what the fuck is up with that? Anyway, as a Christian, I don't take the Bible too seriously, but as a book of stories with morals. I hope this answered your question.

[Bucephalus]

At 7/5/01 04:11 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote: Yah... That's a good point, Everyone already knows that but it doesn't answer the question. The question is, how do Christians act when their church blatantly lies to them?

I'm a Christian and I don't have a church. And on the Christmas thing, why would it even have to be on the actual birthday? The whole point of Christmas is to be a celebration, so it's best to hold it when people are historically most depressed: Around the winter solstice. I'm not defending the Catholic church's past actions though.

[LaserBeamBandit]

At 7/5/01 05:07 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote:

At 7/5/01 04:55 PM, IamJacksalias wrote: Well first of all that wasn't the church giving false info was the Roman emperor.

^ THis I already stated.

And No I don't mean how the catholic church relates to lies. I mean how the individual christian reacts to lies that their told by other earthly humans that are taken to be known as religious fact.

And I already Asked a specific question. The example of Christmass.

How does the individual christian react to christmass which is soppose to be about jesus's birth but in fact no where in the scriptures does it state that, in stead constantine created christmass on the 25th. Do you Take this to be truth even though it has no connection to god? Or do you just belive in the ideal and practice the tradition of christmass simply becuase of tradition but don't acually belive in it?

I practice christmass just because it's tradiotion, I'm not all religious, I don't believe that Jesus is the son of god, and I don't think that any religion gots it right.

[LaserBeamBandit]

At 7/7/01 03:14 AM, GameboyCC wrote:

At 7/4/01 11:28 PM, Anarchypenguin wrote: To all you christians, I Was wondering how do you react to lies by the church?

It's called sleeping in on Sunday. I do it all the time!

Do you just belive in the ideal not in the exact words?

Pretty much, I myself believe more in Darwin than Genesis. In fact, some would say that the book of Genesis is mythology. The Bible was written by men, things get changed/left out when men write. Example: There is evidence... almost solid evidence... that Jesus had brothers and sisters. That's right! Brothers, and sisters, both plural! Either Mary wasn't a perfect virgin, or there is more than one child of God. Sorta' throws of the Trinity don't it? Although, one thing that really is quite stupid is the fact that Jesus is always portrayed as being white. Jesus was an Arab Jew! He was from the Middle East! I have never in my life seen a white person who is natively from Israel! I could go on and on... but it's late...

My father was born in Turkey which is pretty darn close to the middle east and the middle east and North Africk which is all arabic all used to belong to the Turkish Empire Which was known in the first dynasy As the seljuk or seljuq empire and after the dynasy collapsed due to a Mongol invasion at the weaken state after the crusades The seljuk Empire dissapeard but during the next century a more powerful Turkish empire arose and became the most powerful empire in the world for four century and the dynasy just ended in 1924. Well getting back to the point, My father is white and has blond hair, so does my aunt and brother(My mother is white so I don't thin that me and my brother count) but also my grand father, great grand father, and great grand father. I can track my family line for about 3 centuries. So there, an white almost natively bor arab(well pretty darn closr right)

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 7/24/01 06:11 PM, IamJacksalias wrote:

You still haven't answerd the first question proposed and the entire topic of this post. Look at first post, and my original question about how the individual chrisitan deals with lies in the bible and from chuch etc...

What lies in the Bible? As for "the Church" you have to understand that there is no giant entity that is "the Church". So your question doesn't make much sense. As to the Christmass thing i celebrate it on the 25th and give presents, but i know that isn't when Christ was born. To me the celebrating is important, not the actual day. The ideals and the ideas are more important than the means. I got nothing else right now.

Such things as when the bible says that people lived for 900 years, and contradictions where it says that thou shall not kill and later says there is a time to kill. There are tons of things like this but I'm too tired to look through the bible just to prove my point.

[IamJacksalias]

Such things as when the bible says that people lived for 900 years, and contradictions where it says that thou shall not kill and later says there is a time to kill. There are tons of things like this but I'm too tired to look through the bible just to prove my point

The bible says not to murder, killing is alright when it is not illegal IE wars and so on. As far the person that lived for 900 (Methusela; I can't spell English names so don't even start) years that all fits in with the Bible Jesus and miracles an so on. Out fd all the things you ridicule that are in the bible, Jesus walking on water, ascending to heaven, resurrecting Lazarus, you pick that to dump on. I also don't see how that is a condtradiction, but i doubt you meant it to be.