Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

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At 6/26/08 09:54 PM, LordZeebmork wrote: I doubt this will work as well as you think it will. A few people might improve, but the vast majority of General regulars are idiots who can't come up with anything other than one-liners.

Well you see that's totally find with me. I'm not trying to change the entire group of general regulars. Just a few here and there. Every little bit in my opinion helps.

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At 6/26/08 10:05 PM, ReconRebel wrote:

At 6/26/08 06:39 PM, idiot-buster wrote:

At 6/26/08 01:55 AM, Masculine wrote:

It's sad that there arn't to meny users form your time still vary active like you.

... to be replaced with a dipshit like yourself. All good things must come to an end I guess.

Well thanks for calling me a dipshit for doing nothing to you personally.

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To the people who are actually helping out new users I would use this topic and this news post when explaining some things. This would help to back up your claims as it is from a mod. ( gumonshoe )

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At 6/27/08 08:39 AM, Corky52 wrote: To the people who are actually helping out new users I would use this topic and this news post when explaining some things. This would help to back up your claims as it is from a mod. ( gumonshoe )

Thanks i could use these in the future, to help newer users.

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Guys, there is a difference between posting well and back seat modding. Make sure whatever your efforts are or approach that you don't cross that line. Being didactic won't change anything.

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At 6/28/08 02:29 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: Guys, there is a difference between posting well and back seat modding. Make sure whatever your efforts are or approach that you don't cross that line. Being didactic won't change anything.

Nobody is going to dictate people what they can or can't do, we are simply going to guide those users who are willing to improve their posting habits, and contribute good posts in those threads in need. Rules regarding what is prohibited/discouraged are written and enforced by mods, but good posting is something we are going to encourage.

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At 6/28/08 02:29 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: Guys, there is a difference between posting well and back seat modding. Make sure whatever your efforts are or approach that you don't cross that line. Being didactic won't change anything.

Alright, would you consider it back seat modding if I see a person that isn't the best poster and I start talking to them via the PM system, giving him tips on how to better his posts?

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At 6/28/08 09:35 AM, Corky52 wrote: Alright, would you consider it back seat modding if I see a person that isn't the best poster and I start talking to them via the PM system, giving him tips on how to better his posts?

If you can keep it off the forums and you aren't claiming that they are going to get banned etc thats fine. But I've had a couple users in the past just assume that I'm going to ban whover they think I should simply because I agreed to listen to them once or twice.

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At 6/24/08 09:56 PM, Corky52 wrote: You say how is it our fault? It's because the only people that really make interesting topics and stuff too talk about is you guys. If you give up and leave general then there isn't really a way of cleaning it up is there? What's it help by just saying Oh, general is shit. I don't post there anymore? It doesn't help at all. Why say stuff, but do nothing about it?

Honestly thing about. The where is / how to regulars are the best posters on newgrounds. If you guys go back to general and start making topics again, and contributing it can only make the place a little better. It's not like it's going to make it worse.

The main reason good discussion on Wi/Ht? is more sustainable than on General is that there are far fewer regulars on Wi/Ht? than on General.

The fewer the posters the higher the quality. In general.

Even if ALL Wi/Ht? regulars went to General on the SAME NIGHT to start new topics and try to elevate the discourse... THE FLOOD would prevent it from taking hold.

I posted on General earlier today, and within 1 minute the topic I had bumped was down to #15 on the frontpage of General.

THE FLOOD IS UNENDING. THERE IS NO POINT RESISTING IT. LEAVING GENERAL IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.

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At 6/25/08 11:38 AM, Bahamut wrote: A few times, I have said in the Wi/Ht? and C&C forums that we all should try and invade the General forum with better posts than what I usually see there. This to me sounded more of a joke since I didn't think it was possible to turn the forum inside out just like that, but I did think if we had many great posters going there at once, maybe we could do something good. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of that idea.

It's not so much that it's not possible. It's that even if it did work, what would the Wi/Ht?ers and C&Cers have accomplished even if they were successful?

To shift the General forum to be slightly more like those other two forums, only with a larger audience? And even then, just temporarily?

I don't see the point.

At 6/25/08 07:09 PM, Wylo wrote: I'm not here to stop you with your plans, I just feel like ranting.

General is not bad It is what it is supposed to be. Its like saying Indian food is bad.

Indian food is one of my fave genres of food. HOW DARE YOU COMPARE IT TO THE GENERAL FORUM. #;-}>

It is what it is and serves its purpose as a food for people with an acquired taste. If you try to change it, even if you got all the fast food joints and major Indian restaurant chains to change their menus to something you like, people will still eat Indian food because they want Indian food. Okay maybe bad analogy, but you should get my point. I hope.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't see what's wrong with General. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it should change. General fits its description. Everything that doesn't fit in the other forums goes to General. We live in a democracy. Okay, well most of us do. Majority rules. Or those with power. It takes the power of mods to clean the place up, not the 'power' that the self-proclaimed elite users say they have. I may be a stat-whore but I know that I don't realistically have any power over anyone or anything on NG. Unless you got all the mods to start changing the rules, you have no power.

I used to bitch about General in a more serious way (now I just bitch about it for fun) because I remembered what General was like in 2003.

I know I didn't change since then. I was a crusty old adult in 2003 and I was a crusty old adult in 2005, late 20something in both cases.

So General changed. And by that, I mean the users posting in it changed, and the types of topics they were producing changed.

And there's no changing it back, so why bother trying?

But it's not because what General is now is somehow worthy of existence, Wylo. Let's not kid ourselves on that count.

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Well I agree with what you said in your post. I've been here at newgrounds just over a year but in my time here, I will openly admit that General is the worst place to be in most aspects. This is the first forum on the page, and where most newer users will go when they first sign up.

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At 6/28/08 11:10 PM, gfoxcook wrote:

It's not so much that it's not possible. It's that even if it did work, what would the Wi/Ht?ers and C&Cers have accomplished even if they were successful?

To shift the General forum to be slightly more like those other two forums, only with a larger audience? And even then, just temporarily?

I don't see the point.

I would love to see a quality general forum here. Being able to participate in all kinds of QUALITY discussion from A to Z would be awesome, I think. I've done it before on other bbs' on other sites, and I wish it could be the same here. It seems like the only threads in general that provoke any kind of brain activity are religious/political ones. Even then most of the posts are people just flaming the hell out of eachother because they don't know how to, or don't care to debate.
I just believe that trying to change the general forum into a better place would be a losing battle, even if a few general regulars were inspired to start posting better. Really changing it for the better, even temporarily would be a long shot.
My vision of a bunch of us wi/ht and C&C people posting in general would be a few good users clinging to a few good topics amongst a sea of crap. Those users would quickly get discouraged and just leave like they did in the first place, I believe. There are always going to be spammers and users who could care less about taking the effort to make quality posts, and they're always going to want to use the bbs.
Hey! Maybe there should be a forum made that is WORSE than general, so they'll leave! Maybe just a free-for-all forum. I can see it now, a place where everyone is free to flame and make masturbation threads until their heart's content! A place where mods frear to tread! They'd flee from the general forum like rats from a burning building, then we'd be able to move in!! :D

Ok, maybe not. Sounded good for a second there, anyways...

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At 6/28/08 11:10 PM, gfoxcook wrote:

At 6/25/08 11:38 AM, Bahamut wrote: A few times, I have said in the Wi/Ht? and C&C forums that we all should try and invade the General forum with better posts than what I usually see there. This to me sounded more of a joke since I didn't think it was possible to turn the forum inside out just like that, but I did think if we had many great posters going there at once, maybe we could do something good. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of that idea.

It's not so much that it's not possible. It's that even if it did work, what would the Wi/Ht?ers and C&Cers have accomplished even if they were successful?

To shift the General forum to be slightly more like those other two forums, only with a larger audience? And even then, just temporarily?

I don't see the point.

Not just that, but I'm also not liking the mentality of the people who are trying to do this. It just seems that they think that they're better than General users not just for post quality but as people. Like all of a sudden, posting mostly outside of General automatically makes you more mature than anybody who mostly posts in General. Doesn't help when most of General is at an age where it is natural to be immature and think that immature things are funny. You're trying to ask 13 year olds to change and talk about stuff that isn't naturally funny or interesting to their age group. Not gonna happen.

And if it means anything, a lot of people here are just acting mature to go along with the message because it makes them look better which is something that happens on General A LOT. Not so different in my mind.

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At 6/28/08 11:19 PM, Kalandro wrote: Well I agree with what you said in your post. I've been here at newgrounds just over a year but in my time here, I will openly admit that General is the worst place to be in most aspects. This is the first forum on the page, and where most newer users will go when they first sign up.

You're one to talk. You have a "General user's sig pic."

Be part of the solution, man. Not part of the problem.

At 6/28/08 11:30 PM, Metal-Therapy wrote:

At 6/28/08 11:10 PM, gfoxcook wrote:

I don't see the point.

I would love to see a quality general forum here. Being able to participate in all kinds of QUALITY discussion from A to Z would be awesome, I think.

Uh... yeah. I used General for that sort of (cough) general discussion... back in 2003. All the time. I posted in General as much as (if not more than) in Wi/Ht? back then.

It was nice, yes. But Wi/Ht? in 2008 is nice, too.

I've done it before on other bbs' on other sites, and I wish it could be the same here. It seems like the only threads in general that provoke any kind of brain activity are religious/political ones. Even then most of the posts are people just flaming the hell out of eachother because they don't know how to, or don't care to debate.

The religious/political ones should be on Politics, anyway.

Hey! Maybe there should be a forum made that is WORSE than general, so they'll leave! Maybe just a free-for-all forum. I can see it now, a place where everyone is free to flame and make masturbation threads until their heart's content! A place where mods frear to tread! They'd flee from the general forum like rats from a burning building, then we'd be able to move in!! :D

It's not so much that a worse forum than General needs to be made. It's just that General is the TOP LEVEL forum. When noobs go to ng.com/bbs, they see General before they see any other forum. And lookee there... it's got a SHITLOAD of topics and posts.

So where do you think they're gonna go?

At 6/28/08 11:45 PM, 36Holla wrote:

At 6/28/08 11:10 PM, gfoxcook wrote: To shift the General forum to be slightly more like those other two forums, only with a larger audience? And even then, just temporarily?

Not just that, but I'm also not liking the mentality of the people who are trying to do this. It just seems that they think that they're better than General users not just for post quality but as people. Like all of a sudden, posting mostly outside of General automatically makes you more mature than anybody who mostly posts in General.

Well, it's not like some magical automatic thing, no... but it does tend to be the case in general.

And hey, I used to post on General. I posted on General way more than I have in the past year in just the past month, in fact. And the topics I posted in there? Yep, way less mature subject matter than here on Wi/Ht?

But it's all subjective. Stat lists to some users might be "less mature" than sex topics, because... after all, SEX IS FOR GROWNUPS, BUT STATS ARE FOR KIDS or some bullshit.

And if it means anything, a lot of people here are just acting mature to go along with the message because it makes them look better which is something that happens on General A LOT. Not so different in my mind.

The funny thing about acting a certain way, though... it tends to eventually rub off.

IOW, even if they're just trying to "fake it" to fit in around here, sooner or later if they hang around long enough, their posting will improve.

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You guys think it's a waste to save the general, then don't worry about that part. Worry about helping people who really don't know how to post and are just +1ing their post count with things like, "to long didn't read", or things that are like "that's cool". Yes maybe they naturally stop it later on, but from my first 2,000 and even maybe 3,000 posts well over half of them were posts made of spam and one liners. I wish someone would of helped me early on. People still even hold me to the way I use to post just like Joshiwa still doesn't like me for the way I use to post. I don't know why he is holding the past against me like that, but I remember him getting mad at me for some reason, but I don't exactly remember why and I'm sure I pissed a couple of people off before. And for some reason there isn't any convincing him that I understand how to post now. I wasn't even the immature 13 year old kid. I was the immature 18 year old kid when I started posting, even though by my posts you would of probably thought I was 10. I really just want to help people out early in their post count so they don't make the same mistake that I have, and probably a lot of other users have.

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At 6/28/08 11:45 PM, 36Holla wrote: Not just that, but I'm also not liking the mentality of the people who are trying to do this. It just seems that they think that they're better than General users not just for post quality but as people. Like all of a sudden, posting mostly outside of General automatically makes you more mature than anybody who mostly posts in General.

I can see what you mean there. There's a fine line between wanting to help people improve, and being an elitist asshole who looks down on others. I post in General, so does that mean I'm not as good a user as the people who avoid it entirely?

What people tend to forget is that there ARE a lot of decent, intelligent users in the General forums - you just have to be willing to look for them. Not everyone wants to be serious, and why on earth should that be held against them? There's absolutely no reason that people can't have a laugh in the General forums if they want to, so long as it's not detrimental to other users' experiences.

One final thing: did anybody supporting the main ideas in this thread ever stop to think that perhaps these people don't WANT any help? In my mind, if someone wants to be a good poster, they'll become a good poster by themselves. There's really not much point in trying to help people who are perfectly happy doing what they're doing, IMO.

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At 6/29/08 01:01 PM, NEVR wrote:

I can see what you mean there. There's a fine line between wanting to help people improve, and being an elitist asshole who looks down on others. I post in General, so does that mean I'm not as good a user as the people who avoid it entirely?

I don't think anybody's saying that you, or anybody who posts in the general forum would be "not as good" a user for it. Though I've learned to ...not care for, for lack of a better word, the general forum over the years, I still do post there sometimes. As I said before, I have no problem posting there when I find a topic that interests me and is worth posting in. I just wish those times wern't so few and far between, that's all.

What people tend to forget is that there ARE a lot of decent, intelligent users in the General forums - you just have to be willing to look for them. Not everyone wants to be serious, and why on earth should that be held against them? There's absolutely no reason that people can't have a laugh in the General forums if they want to, so long as it's not detrimental to other users' experiences.

Yes, I agree, there are some good posters in general. The quality of the forum in general, for the most part just lacks. If users there want to be silly all the time, and hold little to no interesting conversation, then that's fine. That kind of thing is never going to change, that's why I said before that trying to change that forum would be impossible, and I suppose unnecessary, as there's no reason why users can't have a place to be silly on the bbs.

One final thing: did anybody supporting the main ideas in this thread ever stop to think that perhaps these people don't WANT any help? In my mind, if someone wants to be a good poster, they'll become a good poster by themselves. There's really not much point in trying to help people who are perfectly happy doing what they're doing, IMO.

That's what I've been thinking this whole time. Becoming a better poster is a desision that one has to make for themself. If one doesn't want care to, or is too lazy, or what ever the reason may be, to leave thoughtout replies to topics, then giving them tips and trying to help them really wont do much good. Users will only change their posting habbits if they want to. I think trying to help people who want to become better posters and who want the help is a great way to improve the bbs, though. I still say that being around good posting can infulence one to become a better poster themself. That is IF they're willing to read people's replies , participate in conversation and not just leave their reply to the first post in a thread and move on.

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At 6/26/08 04:31 PM, idiot-buster wrote:

At 6/26/08 04:08 AM, Coop83 wrote: I'd have to disagree with that. Most of the people who come to the BBS start in General. Without it, they wouldn't have gotten a few bans under their belts and made the progression to the proper forums within this BBS.

Ya i started in the general fourms at first. I got several bans and started putting effort into my posts. slowly I moved here where i make most of my posts now.

Exactly, once you get used to the forums themselves, you rarely head into General, as there are specialist topics that don't get spammed as much.

I say it can be saved and made into a better place, but it needs moderators with backbone, who are willing to stand up to the spam.

Most mod's now just lock threads without giving a good reason why, and newer user's don't learn from there mistakes.

It's not that they lock the threads and don't give a good enough explanation, but they get so many to lock. We had instances in Wi/Ht that they would just delete question threads, after the answer had been given. If the user who asked the question can't see the answer, then they have every right to feel a bit hard done by.

At 6/28/08 11:04 PM, gfoxcook wrote: THE FLOOD IS UNENDING. THERE IS NO POINT RESISTING IT. LEAVING GENERAL IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.

With a careful strategy, the forum known as General can be purged and possibly replaced with a forum called Supreme Commander, for example?

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At 6/30/08 04:16 AM, Coop83 wrote:

At 6/26/08 04:31 PM, idiot-buster wrote:

At 6/26/08 04:08 AM, Coop83 wrote: I'd have to disagree with that. Most of the people who come to the BBS start in General. Without it, they wouldn't have gotten a few bans under their belts and made the progression to the proper forums within this BBS.

Ya i started in the general fourms at first. I got several bans and started putting effort into my posts. slowly I moved here where i make most of my posts now.

Exactly, once you get used to the forums themselves, you rarely head into General, as there are specialist topics that don't get spammed as much.

I like it here much better because people are not usuing 1337 speak every other topic, most of them not realizing that fad has come and gone along time ago.

I say it can be saved and made into a better place, but it needs moderators with backbone, who are willing to stand up to the spam.

Most mod's now just lock threads without giving a good reason why, and newer user's don't learn from there mistakes.

It's not that they lock the threads and don't give a good enough explanation, but they get so many to lock. We had instances in Wi/Ht that they would just delete question threads, after the answer had been given. If the user who asked the question can't see the answer, then they have every right to feel a bit hard done by.

Exactly, if thay did that in the general fourms things would not be the way they are today.

At 6/28/08 11:04 PM, gfoxcook wrote: THE FLOOD IS UNENDING. THERE IS NO POINT RESISTING IT. LEAVING GENERAL IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.

With a careful strategy, the forum known as General can be purged and possibly replaced with a forum called Supreme Commander, for example?

The noobs can have the general, we will stay here and watch it suffer.

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At 6/30/08 01:41 PM, idiot-buster wrote: I like it here much better because people are not usuing 1337 speak every other topic, most of them not realizing that fad has come and gone along time ago.

Haha, sorry, but I have to disagree on that. I haven't seen 1337 speak in the forums since a looong time ago. Maybe I've not been in the right place, or perhaps you have visited very dark corners of the BBS.

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At 6/26/08 04:31 PM, idiot-buster wrote: Most mod's now just lock threads without giving a good reason why, and newer user's don't learn from there mistakes.

Most of the time, if they'd just read the damn rules like they stated they did when they first posted, they wouldn't have made the thread in the first place.

We need better "I have read and understand the rules" confirmation. A checkbox is just an extra click away from posting.

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At 6/30/08 05:09 PM, Joe wrote:

Most of the time, if they'd just read the damn rules like they stated they did when they first posted, they wouldn't have made the thread in the first place.

I couldn't agree more.

We need better "I have read and understand the rules" confirmation. A checkbox is just an extra click away from posting.

Yeah that would be a great idea, but how exactly would you be able to do it?

You could have something like a quiz of the rules before they can even see the forums, but that would easily be gotten around once somebody let's the answers out. Anyone have any ideas on what could be done here?

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Damn, I'm part of the problem on General. I guess I'll explain my mindset when posting there so you can see what goes through a General-poster's mind. It'll be easier to fix that way:

Topics that have potential and a low amount of posts:
I'll contribute to the best of my ability. Like, if someone is talking about an episode of Scrubs or marine biology, I'll try and finish my post with a question to catalyze discussion. This works, eh, 33% of the time. Mostly though the topic fades away with no new content.

Topics that have potential and have a high amount of posts:
I'll contribute, but only half-heartedly. I know no one will read my post because most people don't view the last page of a thread before posting. I've seen examples of this in my Keyboard Garden thread. A portion of the posts were saying it wouldn't grow at all while I'd have posted the latest picture right before them, lush and green. This ties in with the sheer number of posters online and the lack of a sense of community I feel.

Topics with a funny picture that might be epic:
If I choose to post in it, I say something to the effect of, "Lol, that's great. I like how you something something something." There won't be any discussion in this at all. I've seen some of you guys linking to those threads saying they were from the "good ol' days." Well, they are spam threads. The thing that makes them better than these spam threads is that they were made by awesome users and the people responding to them knew each other.

Plain spam:
If I can try and be funny, I guess I might as well go for it. Otherwise I leave them alone. Those 24-hour bans are annoying (well, not as much seeing as I haven't been on the BBS in a long time.)

Overall mindset:
The chances for actual contribution are very slim. There are just too many users posting too quickly. This is why I've moved on to a different site, T3h Party, and it's so much better because there are about 15 active users who can carry on an interesting conversation no problem. They have bad press here (made by KemCab, lol), but it's awesome. Gah, I'm rambling--

Now we'll get off my mindset and on to other things:

You guys at Wi/Ht seem pretty cool, so maybe I'll stick around. It's just that the only topics we can have here are Wi/Ht topics, right? I still see a lot of quoting and discussions here, so that is a great sign. We'll see...

So, yeah, there you have it. You haven't learned anything new, as all of you have said there are too many noobs and +1 posts, but I think I presented it well. Oh yeah, you can't fix General. The only way it could be done would be to impose posting standards (no one would follow them) or convince the new people to leave, which is a horrible idea. If we could just give up on the current newbies and try and influence the next wave of newbies, then something might be done. But all of this won't happen.

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At 6/30/08 09:34 PM, MinusNick wrote: Damn, I'm part of the problem on General. I guess I'll explain my mindset when posting there so you can see what goes through a General-poster's mind. It'll be easier to fix that way:

I have seen you post and you really aren't that bad of a poster, but thanks for the input on how the mind of someone that posts on general works.

Topics that have potential and a low amount of posts:
I'll contribute to the best of my ability. Like, if someone is talking about an episode of Scrubs or marine biology, I'll try and finish my post with a question to catalyze discussion. This works, eh, 33% of the time. Mostly though the topic fades away with no new content.

These are the topics that I really want to see be posted in more. It's really annoying to see something interesting just get ignored. Maybe that's why its a good idea to have a little system going on to where if you see something interesting that got ignored that you could PM some people about it.

Topics that have potential and have a high amount of posts:
I'll contribute, but only half-heartedly. I know no one will read my post because most people don't view the last page of a thread before posting. I've seen examples of this in my Keyboard Garden thread. A portion of the posts were saying it wouldn't grow at all while I'd have posted the latest picture right before them, lush and green. This ties in with the sheer number of posters online and the lack of a sense of community I feel.

And this would be why I would like to take newer users of to the side, via the PM system, and kind of teach them the ropes. They will be more likely to read the entire thing and actually contribute instead of just saying a quick line like, "This is stupid, or This won't work". I ran into the same problem with my newgrounds workout.

Topics with a funny picture that might be epic:
If I choose to post in it, I say something to the effect of, "Lol, that's great. I like how you something something something." There won't be any discussion in this at all. I've seen some of you guys linking to those threads saying they were from the "good ol' days." Well, they are spam threads. The thing that makes them better than these spam threads is that they were made by awesome users and the people responding to them knew each other.

Isn't it funny how if a unpopular or unknown user makes a topic like this that everyone calls them a Noob or everyone calls them an idiot, but is someone who is well known could make the same exact topic then everyone would think it was the funniest thing in the world. This shows how people rather look at the posts count instead of the material.

Plain spam:
If I can try and be funny, I guess I might as well go for it. Otherwise I leave them alone. Those 24-hour bans are annoying (well, not as much seeing as I haven't been on the BBS in a long time.)

These were the only things that I ever got banned for. The only way to stop topics like these are to not post in them and eventually someone might get the point. I completely stay away from them and as a result haven't been banned for a very long time, except the time Jade banned me for starting a pyramid spam. I didn't think I really started it since all I did was push the post button before I was done typing by accident and everyone thought it would be fun to finish my sentence then build off of each others sentences.

Overall mindset:
The chances for actual contribution are very slim. There are just too many users posting too quickly. This is why I've moved on to a different site, T3h Party, and it's so much better because there are about 15 active users who can carry on an interesting conversation no problem. They have bad press here (made by KemCab, lol), but it's awesome. Gah, I'm rambling--

Newgrounds is the only blog site that I can find time for. I think the reason why the mindset is like that is because of the young age limits and the large amount of users who are 13 and under.

Now we'll get off my mindset and on to other things:

You guys at Wi/Ht seem pretty cool, so maybe I'll stick around. It's just that the only topics we can have here are Wi/Ht topics, right? I still see a lot of quoting and discussions here, so that is a great sign. We'll see...

Theres a lot of stat lists and you can always help out users who have a question. Even ask a question yourself if you need one to be answered. There is always discussion going on here, something that isn't seen in too much of the rest of newgrounds.

So, yeah, there you have it. You haven't learned anything new, as all of you have said there are too many noobs and +1 posts, but I think I presented it well. Oh yeah, you can't fix General. The only way it could be done would be to impose posting standards (no one would follow them) or convince the new people to leave, which is a horrible idea. If we could just give up on the current newbies and try and influence the next wave of newbies, then something might be done. But all of this won't happen.

I don't want to fix general I just want to help a couple of new users one by one to become better posters before they make a bad name for themselves. I know there isn't any way to fix general, but you can make it better if only by a very little bit. I know the first couple of times I saw quality posters that I wanted to post better myself so why can't it work for a hand full of other people.

On another note, you've been gone for such a long time. I missed you MinusNick.

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At 6/29/08 09:22 AM, Corky52 wrote: You guys think it's a waste to save the general, then don't worry about that part. Worry about helping people who really don't know how to post and are just +1ing their post count with things like, "to long didn't read", or things that are like "that's cool".

That's fine, but.... there are people who need to improve their posting styles on every single forum, myself included. I should post shorter posts, be a bit more concise, to improve my posts' readability to the general audience.

I wish someone would of helped me early on. People still even hold me to the way I use to post just like Joshiwa still doesn't like me for the way I use to post. I don't know why he is holding the past against me like that, but I remember him getting mad at me for some reason, but I don't exactly remember why and I'm sure I pissed a couple of people off before.

Clearly, he still remembers what it is was that got him mad at you, and he now holds a grudge (even if he doesn't think of it that way).

Human memory = the reason grudges exist.

At 6/29/08 01:01 PM, NEVR wrote: I can see what you mean there. There's a fine line between wanting to help people improve, and being an elitist asshole who looks down on others. I post in General, so does that mean I'm not as good a user as the people who avoid it entirely?

Of course not.

It's not like General has "cooties" or something, man.

What people tend to forget is that there ARE a lot of decent, intelligent users in the General forums - you just have to be willing to look for them. Not everyone wants to be serious, and why on earth should that be held against them? There's absolutely no reason that people can't have a laugh in the General forums if they want to, so long as it's not detrimental to other users' experiences.

Of course there are, but most of the decent, intelligent users on General are also posting in at least one, if not more, OTHER forum(s) on NG BBS, and if you want to avoid General but still like the company of those users, such as how I like to read your posts and reply to you, then you can do so in those other places (like how I mostly talk to you here on Wi/Ht? as opposed to hanging out on General with you).

Then you win TWICE. #;-}>

One final thing: did anybody supporting the main ideas in this thread ever stop to think that perhaps these people don't WANT any help? In my mind, if someone wants to be a good poster, they'll become a good poster by themselves. There's really not much point in trying to help people who are perfectly happy doing what they're doing, IMO.

When people need help but don't want it.... there's a term for what's needed: AN INTERVENTION. #;-}>

And you can say that all you want, but it's similar to saying "if someone wants to [follow the BBS rules], they'll [follow the BBS rules] by themselves. [They don't need mods] trying to help people who are perfectly happy doing what they're doing, IMO." (OMG, did you see what I did thar? #;-}>)

So anywayy... Maybe not... but we DO have mods enforcing the rules, don't we?

And if folks want to be posting style police, that's their right. They don't have any power to actually punish those who don't listen like mods do, but that doesn't stop us all from armchair quarterbacking. #;-}>

I bitch about General because it's fun, not because I hate the users in General.

I do hate most of the topics I see in General nowadays, though.

Hate the topic, not the poster.

At 6/30/08 04:16 AM, Coop83 wrote: Exactly, once you get used to the forums themselves, you rarely head into General, as there are specialist topics that don't get spammed as much.

And the topic listings themselves aren't on auto-scroll at an insane pace most of the day.

At 6/28/08 11:04 PM, gfoxcook wrote: THE FLOOD IS UNENDING. THERE IS NO POINT RESISTING IT. LEAVING GENERAL IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.

With a careful strategy, the forum known as General can be purged and possibly replaced with a forum called Supreme Commander, for example?

Sounds like a great idea, but only if there's a crap forum (that will occupy the #1 spot in the forums listing) created at the same time, so the SC forum doesn't become identical to the G forum before it. #;-}>

At 6/30/08 04:17 PM, YoungAndWise wrote:

At 6/30/08 01:41 PM, idiot-buster wrote: I like it here much better because people are not usuing 1337 speak every other topic, most of them not realizing that fad has come and gone along time ago.

Haha, sorry, but I have to disagree on that. I haven't seen 1337 speak in the forums since a looong time ago. Maybe I've not been in the right place, or perhaps you have visited very dark corners of the BBS.

I say "teh" a lot on purpose, and technically teh = leetspeak.

There's a massive range of leetspeak and how people use it. From sprinkling a few leetspeak terms into normal English... to sprinkling in a few oldschool leetspeak/hax0rtalk shit into modern text-message-style typing (i.e. lazy shit with your/you're and its/it's constantly AND CONSISTENTLY used the wrong way)... to full-out saying everything in leetspeak, but with actual letters.... to the most insane of all: full-out leetspeak with CHARACTERS instead of letters... you know, 100% insanity.

It's a spectrum.

At 6/30/08 05:09 PM, Joe wrote: We need better "I have read and understand the rules" confirmation. A checkbox is just an extra click away from posting.

Maybe like with some "terms and conditions" scroll windows.... a forced "you must scroll down to the bottom of the text" thing before you can click a checkbox or click a button...

Not that that means people will read them either, but they can't claim ignorance (oh, I didn't know I was supposed to read the rules, I just checked the box/clicked the button).

They will have specifically paged down or clicked and dragged the slider all the way to the bottom, whether they read the rules, skimmed them, or SKIPPED them, and we can all laugh and point, and the mods can all ban away, without any hesitation or pity.

At 6/30/08 09:34 PM, MinusNick wrote: Damn, I'm part of the problem on General.

:::pats you on shoulder::: It's gonna be okay, man. Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards getting better!

Topics with a funny picture that might be epic:
If I choose to post in it, I say something to the effect of, "Lol, that's great. I like how you something something something." There won't be any discussion in this at all. I've seen some of you guys linking to those threads saying they were from the "good ol' days." Well, they are spam threads. The thing that makes them better than these spam threads is that they were made by awesome users and the people responding to them knew each other.

No, those type of threads are NOT why General had "good ol' days" back in the day, man.

You guys at Wi/Ht seem pretty cool, so maybe I'll stick around. It's just that the only topics we can have here are Wi/Ht topics, right? I still see a lot of quoting and discussions here, so that is a great sign. We'll see...

... much learning still yet to be done by you, mmmm?... much things learn here will you, yes?

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I feel like the forums are analogous to a neighborhood. General would be this house full of teenagers during a wild, crazy party, and the other forums are the elderly neighbors who are getting pissed.

Seriously though, despite General having flaws, it's General, meaning you can just post about things...in general. No, that doesn't mean you can flood the whole damn thing with spam, but it seems like you guys are trying too hard to turn General into this intelligent, profound thing. It's good to have an intelligent conversation here and there, but...come on, it's General. I feel like there's really no other way to say it, but General is General and will always be General.

I don't know how General was back in the old days, but I think the reason you guys think General has degraded so much in quality is that Newgrounds has become more popular throughout the years, and it has attracted a wider audience, so more shit users than a few years ago when Newgrounds was less popular.

Call me a General fag, whatever, but I'll still continue posting there. I complained a bit about General in the last page, so I guess I'm a hypocrite, but really though, those are the only things I would change about it.

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At 7/3/08 10:00 PM, gamerpeepinpa wrote:

Call me a General fag, whatever, but I'll still continue posting there. I complained a bit about General in the last page, so I guess I'm a hypocrite, but really though, those are the only things I would change about it.

I still post there about 10 times a day and I post in this forum and the C+C about 40 times. I won't ever stop posting in general either. I think people haven't noticed that this threads purpose has changed from trying to fix general to trying to help newer users with their post quality. I felt like I have said this about 10 times so far, but I want to find a few users who wouldn't mind PMing some newer users who you notice who are spamming so that you can give them some tips before they make a bad name for themselves. The problem is when new users come in they see people spamming and plus 1ing their post count, they think that's the way posting should be, and then they post the same way trying to act cool.

If you want to help newer users then you do have to remember though that you are not newgrounds staff or moderators, well unless you really are. You also have to remember to only do it in PM's so it's not considered backseat modding and that if the person doesn't want to cooperate then you don't force them too.

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At 7/3/08 10:18 PM, Corky52 wrote:

At 7/3/08 10:00 PM, gamerpeepinpa wrote:

I felt like I have said this about 10 times so far, but I want to find a few users who wouldn't mind PMing some newer users who you notice who are spamming so that you can give them some tips before they make a bad name for themselves. The problem is when new users come in they see people spamming and plus 1ing their post count, they think that's the way posting should be, and then they post the same way trying to act cool.

I would enjoy to find several newer user's to help and give tips and even in a way take them under my wing. Thatys probaly the best solution to helping the general fourms, and i still do post there several times a day while most of my attention is occupied here, i would love to see new user's make post's that werent just to get a post count, but to want to make a insightful conversation with one another. And not having spam wars with one another. And not thinking one noob is better than the others because his sign-up-date is one day or even a week earlier than another user.

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At 7/3/08 10:00 PM, gamerpeepinpa wrote: I feel like the forums are analogous to a neighborhood. General would be this house full of teenagers during a wild, crazy party, and the other forums are the elderly neighbors who are getting pissed.

Seriously though, despite General having flaws, it's General, meaning you can just post about things...in general. No, that doesn't mean you can flood the whole damn thing with spam, but it seems like you guys are trying too hard to turn General into this intelligent, profound thing. It's good to have an intelligent conversation here and there, but...come on, it's General. I feel like there's really no other way to say it, but General is General and will always be General.

No one's trying to actually turn General into an intelligent area of NG BBS.

We're just bitching about how General isn't an intelligent area of NG BBS while not doing shit all to fix it, just like is every old neighbor's perogative. #;-}>

In fact... IT IS A BIRTHRIGHT, A RESPONSIBILITY, AND EVERY ONE'S EXPECTATION OF US OLD FOLK.

So why should we fail to disappoint?

Also, I feel I should point out, which I didn't earlier this evening in my post at the bottom of the previous page... the part to NEVR's post... that a lot of some of our General-bashing is half-serious, that most of us are exaggerating General's flaws in part to explain why we just don't feel like investing the serious time it would take to add General-posting to our already loaded Wi/Ht?-posting plates here on NG BBS.

IOW, excuse-making.

So sue us. #;-}>

Call me a General fag, whatever, but I'll still continue posting there. I complained a bit about General in the last page, so I guess I'm a hypocrite, but really though, those are the only things I would change about it.

Calling you a General "fag" would be a very "General" thing to do, dude.

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Argh, didn't notice this one part of your post when I was scanning over this new page before replying to Mr. General over there.

At 7/3/08 10:18 PM, Corky52 wrote: I still post there about 10 times a day and I post in this forum and the C+C about 40 times. I won't ever stop posting in general either. I think people haven't noticed that this threads purpose has changed from trying to fix general to trying to help newer users with their post quality. I felt like I have said this about 10 times so far, but I want to find a few users who wouldn't mind PMing some newer users who you notice who are spamming so that you can give them some tips before they make a bad name for themselves. The problem is when new users come in they see people spamming and plus 1ing their post count, they think that's the way posting should be, and then they post the same way trying to act cool.

Becoming Review/BBS modded in late 2003 is pretty much why I stopped going to General very often by early/mid 2004, BTW.