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This isn't really my opinion, but a collected opinion from a couple of general regulars. So don't come complaining to me about this, even though where is / how to regulars aren't really known for that so I shouldn't have anything to worry about.

The general assumption is that general is ruined by new users who post just for the plus 1 post count and also that its the new users who make terrible topics, making general an overall very uninteresting place to post. I couldn't agree more.

Now there is another side of this that general regulars and I had in common that we also agreed on. Some of the blame can go on people who use to post in general, but quit because of the poor quality and uninteresting topics.

You say how is it our fault? It's because the only people that really make interesting topics and stuff too talk about is you guys. If you give up and leave general then there isn't really a way of cleaning it up is there? What's it help by just saying Oh, general is shit. I don't post there anymore? It doesn't help at all. Why say stuff, but do nothing about it?

Honestly thing about. The where is / how to regulars are the best posters on newgrounds. If you guys go back to general and start making topics again, and contributing it can only make the place a little better. It's not like it's going to make it worse.

Do whatever you want with this. Debate, argue, agree, but maybe the best thing to do is to actually do something about it.

My Opinion

I believe it's mostly the new users and a little bit of the older, more experienced people leaving.

In my opinion it's just become a place for noob's to socialize about how much they pawn other's and other topics similar to that. In the pas week or so i have not made a post in the general fourms and don't think i will make many more in the future.

At 6/24/08 10:02 PM, idiot-buster wrote: In my opinion it's just become a place for noob's to socialize about how much they pawn other's and other topics similar to that. In the pas week or so i have not made a post in the general fourms and don't think i will make many more in the future.

As I said I believe that too, but when the quality posters leave then what's left there? The shitty posters, making general full of shit posters. If the quality posters didn't leave then there would at least be good with the bad.

At 6/24/08 10:09 PM, Corky52 wrote:

At 6/24/08 10:02 PM, idiot-buster wrote: In my opinion it's just become a place for noob's to socialize about how much they pawn other's and other topics similar to that. In the pas week or so i have not made a post in the general fourms and don't think i will make many more in the future.

As I said I believe that too, but when the quality posters leave then what's left there? The shitty posters, making general full of shit posters. If the quality posters didn't leave then there would at least be good with the bad.

But to me it seems there are more noobs comming in than then more quality posters being formed. And meny regulars have left in the past year or so.

At 6/24/08 09:56 PM, Corky52 wrote:

The general assumption is that general is ruined by new users who post just for the plus 1 post count and also that its the new users who make terrible topics, making general an overall very uninteresting place to post. I couldn't agree more.

To be honest, the reason why I don't like the general forum all that much is the lack of seriousness and the lack of conversation. It seems like I'm talking to myself when I post there 99% of the time. I know nobody's going to quote anything I say, it's almost like everybody just posts their reply to a given post and that's that. At least conversations can actually be held here in Wi/Ht. Things are smaller here, and the users are much more mature and much better posters.

My Opinion

I believe it's mostly the new users and a little bit of the older, more experienced people leaving.

I hardly ever post in General anymore. I think the longer a serious user stays on the site the less appealing a forum like General is, and the more they are attracted to Wi/Ht and/or C&C.
I do agree that General would be better with some better topics. Some of the other BBS's I frequent on other sites have great versions of our General forum. I don't understand why it can't be the same here.
I, though, am fine with it the way it is now. Though it might be a little on the spammy side, the General fourm is good for a laugh every now and again and that's why I browse it sometimes. I'm A-ok with sticking to Wi/Ht and the RRC in C&C. :P

At 6/24/08 10:22 PM, Metal-Therapy wrote:

At 6/24/08 09:56 PM, Corky52 wrote:

The general assumption is that general is ruined by new users who post just for the plus 1 post count and also that its the new users who make terrible topics, making general an overall very uninteresting place to post. I couldn't agree more.

To be honest, the reason why I don't like the general forum all that much is the lack of seriousness and the lack of conversation. It seems like I'm talking to myself when I post there 99% of the time. I know nobody's going to quote anything I say, it's almost like everybody just posts their reply to a given post and that's that. At least conversations can actually be held here in Wi/Ht. Things are smaller here, and the users are much more mature and much better posters.

That's how i feel, it's like talking to a wall over there i post something hoping to start a conversation but all i get is ''i pawned youuuuuuu''. And here effort and thought are put into are posts.

My Opinion

I believe it's mostly the new users and a little bit of the older, more experienced people leaving.

I, though, am fine with it the way it is now. Though it might be a little on the spammy side, the General fourm is good for a laugh every now and again and that's why I browse it sometimes. I'm A-ok with sticking to Wi/Ht and the RRC in C&C. :P

I'm fine with the way the general fourm is, i just won't post there as often as i used to and post here to fill in to void.

At 6/24/08 10:22 PM, Metal-Therapy wrote:

To be honest, the reason why I don't like the general forum all that much is the lack of seriousness and the lack of conversation. It seems like I'm talking to myself when I post there 99% of the time. I know nobody's going to quote anything I say, it's almost like everybody just posts their reply to a given post and that's that. At least conversations can actually be held here in Wi/Ht. Things are smaller here, and the users are much more mature and much better posters.

Yeah, but pretty much my idea was that if the users that do post here that are serious and mature would post in general then there would be conversations held, and there would be people to quote you and have a discussion. I might be fighting for a lost cause though as I am also finding my self to start drifting away from general forum, since there is hardly anybody there to actually have a conversation with.

Though it might be a little on the spammy side, the General fourm is good for a laugh every now and again and that's why I browse it sometimes.

It sure does bring some humor, even the spam is funny sometimes and make me wonder, " Why the hell would somebody post that? "

At 6/24/08 10:29 PM, Corky52 wrote:

At 6/24/08 10:22 PM, Metal-Therapy wrote:

Yeah, but pretty much my idea was that if the users that do post here that are serious and mature would post in general then there would be conversations held, and there would be people to quote you and have a discussion. I might be fighting for a lost cause though as I am also finding my self to start drifting away from general forum, since there is hardly anybody there to actually have a conversation with.

I don't expect the people in the general fourm to be serious and mature. Thats the way it was when i got here and i fit in there for a while, but now find my self not posing there and having a good time here insted.

Though it might be a little on the spammy side, the General fourm is good for a laugh every now and again and that's why I browse it sometimes.

It sure does bring some humor, even the spam is funny sometimes and make me wonder, " Why the hell would somebody post that? "

It's probaly to get attention, or that user is 10 years old who will just post the first thing that comes to mind.

At 6/24/08 10:29 PM, Corky52 wrote:

Yeah, but pretty much my idea was that if the users that do post here that are serious and mature would post in general then there would be conversations held, and there would be people to quote you and have a discussion. I might be fighting for a lost cause though as I am also finding my self to start drifting away from general forum, since there is hardly anybody there to actually have a conversation with.

It would be nice to liberate General with great topics and good posters. But when you really think about it, BBS regulars who are really good posters are VERY hard to come by. Someone like gfoxcook who will go through post after post, replying to them all and contributing with lots of converation is a very rare thing.
Maybe we can organize an elite group group of BBS missionaries to convert the General forum to the ways of good posting habbits...? ;p

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!! lol

It sure does bring some humor, even the spam is funny sometimes and make me wonder, " Why the hell would somebody post that? "

Indeed! And that's the only reason I go there anymore, for the most part. Its like seeing a crappy flash submitted that's so bad it makes you laugh. ;p

This really isn't a topic you would post on the forums at all except maybe in General. This is something that would be more appropriate in a news/blog post. We know General is bad, but a topic to discuss how bad it is isn't necessary when it's done enough already in General itself by disgruntled users who say how much they hate it, yet can't stop posting on it.

At 6/24/08 10:39 PM, Metal-Therapy wrote:

At 6/24/08 10:29 PM, Corky52 wrote:

It would be nice to liberate General with great topics and good posters. But when you really think about it, BBS regulars who are really good posters are VERY hard to come by. Someone like gfoxcook who will go through post after post, replying to them all and contributing with lots of converation is a very rare thing.

I doubt he will ever do the same thing on the general fourms and yes i agree that there arn't to meny users who can contribute to almost every topic on the fist page.

Maybe we can organize an elite group group of BBS missionaries to convert the General forum to the ways of good posting habbits...? ;p

Time to over rule the noobs once and for all and take back the general fourms, lol.

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!! lol

It's the forum with the quickest replies, so if I have something to say I say it in there.

because I'm an impatient bastard

At 6/24/08 10:40 PM, 36Holla wrote: This really isn't a topic you would post on the forums at all except maybe in General. This is something that would be more appropriate in a news/blog post. We know General is bad, but a topic to discuss how bad it is isn't necessary when it's done enough already in General itself by disgruntled users who say how much they hate it, yet can't stop posting on it.

This isn't a disgruntled user that is saying how much they hate it though. Think of this thread as a How To try and help the general. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have some of the better posters start posting in general, you never know I started posting much better when I saw how some of the people post here in the Where is / How to. So I was pretty much "converted" by seeing your guy's posts. If it helped change the way I post then maybe showing some of the users in general the right way to post will make them decide to start posting with better quality. Even it it's only one or two here and there, it's going to help. Every little bit helps.

At 6/24/08 10:46 PM, X-TERRORIST-X wrote: It's the forum with the quickest replies, so if I have something to say I say it in there.

This fourm may be a bit slower than the general, but is much better quality wize.

The sheer amount of derailing posts in almost every thread in General drowns the quality or potential posts. And these good posts are mostly ignored.

Religion threads doesn't even create discussions anymore.

At 6/24/08 10:51 PM, Chandelier wrote: The sheer amount of derailing posts in almost every thread in General drowns the quality or potential posts. And these good posts are mostly ignored.

That's really why we have to try and make the quality posts come close to equaling the derailing post.

Religion threads doesn't even create discussions anymore.

I know they sure did every time I posted in one. That's of course when I had a bit more free time to post more often. When I get back to college I actually have more free time so I will post in general more often.

I checked it out the first day I came here, looked at a few topic names. Not only I see spam, but the most uninteresting things.

I think it's useless, it is sad. So I haven't gone back. I am not contributing to the problem, but certainly not helping it. Why help when your only one person? That seems to be the concensus thought. Should we unite and try to make it an interesting place again as you guys say it was.

At 6/24/08 10:47 PM, Corky52 wrote:

you never know I started posting much better when I saw how some of the people post here in the Where is / How to. So I was pretty much "converted" by seeing your guy's posts.

I agree with this. Once I was able to become more active in the Wi/Ht forum, my posting became much better as a result. I give the credit for that largely to the regulars of this forum. Becoming involved in their conversations, and even just replying to list updates really made it easy to improve my posting habits by a lot.

If it helped change the way I post then maybe showing some of the users in general the right way to post will make them decide to start posting with better quality. Even it it's only one or two here and there, it's going to help. Every little bit helps.

Ideally, yes, that would be great. But I think becoming a better poster is something that you have to decide for yourself, and it is something that happens with time and maturity, I believe. Trying to help a bunch of 12 year olds to become better posters might be an up hill climb... :/
I think the best one could do would be as you said, make good topics and show others how to be good posters. Being a good poster is infectious, it really helps those around you become better posters themselves. I mean, this thread is a perfect example of what good posters and great conversation can do, as I've made a few good-sized posts here in just the last few minuets. Despite this, I don't think it would turn General into a great forum, though it would make it a bit better ;) There will always be spammy +1-type posters who live there, I don't think there's any changing that... :(

I miss the good ol days of general. With Willi and McFooFa and Mechabloby. Perfect examples of what I miss.

At 6/24/08 10:47 PM, Corky52 wrote:

At 6/24/08 10:40 PM, 36Holla wrote: This really isn't a topic you would post on the forums at all except maybe in General. This is something that would be more appropriate in a news/blog post. We know General is bad, but a topic to discuss how bad it is isn't necessary when it's done enough already in General itself by disgruntled users who say how much they hate it, yet can't stop posting on it.

This isn't a disgruntled user that is saying how much they hate it though.

Never said you were, and I wasn't referring to you in the first place. Think of people like HAYF or LordZeebmork who seem to make at least one post per BBS visit about their loathing for General.

Think of this thread as a How To try and help the general. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have some of the better posters start posting in general, you never know I started posting much better when I saw how some of the people post here in the Where is / How to. So I was pretty much "converted" by seeing your guy's posts. If it helped change the way I post then maybe showing some of the users in general the right way to post will make them decide to start posting with better quality. Even it it's only one or two here and there, it's going to help. Every little bit helps.

People don't become 'converted' by just seeing more mature posts. In most cases we get naturally mature posters coming here because they're sick of General and they're looking at the other forums for people who are more like them. It's usually not a case of a bad poster becoming a good poster because it takes a long time for someones whole posting style and attitude to change here.

As for helping General posters improving their quality, that'll only happen if the mods actually banned people like SomethingAwful mods do. The way to better conversation is through strict structure and enforcement of the rules, and that isn't provided by the mods in General to the degree that is needed.

At 6/24/08 10:59 PM, Metal-Therapy wrote:

At 6/24/08 10:47 PM, Corky52 wrote:

you never know I started posting much better when I saw how some of the people post here in the Where is / How to. So I was pretty much "converted" by seeing your guy's posts.

I agree with this. Once I was able to become more active in the Wi/Ht forum, my posting became much better as a result. I give the credit for that largely to the regulars of this forum. Becoming involved in their conversations, and even just replying to list updates really made it easy to improve my posting habits by a lot.

If it helped change the way I post then maybe showing some of the users in general the right way to post will make them decide to start posting with better quality. Even it it's only one or two here and there, it's going to help. Every little bit helps.

Ideally, yes, that would be great. But I think becoming a better poster is something that you have to decide for yourself, and it is something that happens with time and maturity, I believe. Trying to help a bunch of 12 year olds to become better posters might be an up hill climb... :/
I think the best one could do would be as you said, make good topics and show others how to be good posters. Being a good poster is infectious, it really helps those around you become better posters themselves. I mean, this thread is a perfect example of what good posters and great conversation can do, as I've made a few good-sized posts here in just the last few minuets. Despite this, I don't think it would turn General into a great forum, though it would make it a bit better ;) There will always be spammy +1-type posters who live there, I don't think there's any changing that... :(

I honestly don't see why people even spam just for a post count.

"ZOMGROFLLMAOORLYBBQ I got in top 1000000003 post list with 299294949924 posts!!!!"

Posts counts may show longevity, but in the end who gives a shit? Nobody thinks someone is better for a post count. We just treat them the same way. I hope.

True the WI/HT forum is definetley the example for good posting and I like being here. It's a good place to be.

I believe helping 3 year old spam posters and spam submitters needs to be dealth with first. That will definetley be a rollercoaster.

In all honesty I think that any type of making this place better as we have been hoping to will be a rollercoaster ride and then straight into the ground. We can't all spend our lives here and there will always be another group of 3 year olds willing to whine and take their place except with worse results.

Even if there are numbers, how do you go about doing it? We'll just end up replying to ourselves in the end. Coming up with a good topic is harder than making spam threads, and even then it'll be derailed. In my opinion, General has to get more aggressive than friendly.

At 6/24/08 11:04 PM, 36Holla wrote:

At 6/24/08 10:47 PM, Corky52 wrote:

At 6/24/08 10:40 PM, 36Holla wrote: This really isn't a topic you would post on the forums at all except maybe in General. This is something that would be more appropriate in a news/blog post. We know General is bad, but a topic to discuss how bad it is isn't necessary when it's done enough already in General itself by disgruntled users who say how much they hate it, yet can't stop posting on it.

This isn't a disgruntled user that is saying how much they hate it though.

Never said you were, and I wasn't referring to you in the first place. Think of people like HAYF or LordZeebmork who seem to make at least one post per BBS visit about their loathing for General.

Think of this thread as a How To try and help the general. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have some of the better posters start posting in general, you never know I started posting much better when I saw how some of the people post here in the Where is / How to. So I was pretty much "converted" by seeing your guy's posts. If it helped change the way I post then maybe showing some of the users in general the right way to post will make them decide to start posting with better quality. Even it it's only one or two here and there, it's going to help. Every little bit helps.

People don't become 'converted' by just seeing more mature posts. In most cases we get naturally mature posters coming here because they're sick of General and they're looking at the other forums for people who are more like them. It's usually not a case of a bad poster becoming a good poster because it takes a long time for someones whole posting style and attitude to change here.

As for helping General posters improving their quality, that'll only happen if the mods actually banned people like SomethingAwful mods do. The way to better conversation is through strict structure and enforcement of the rules, and that isn't provided by the mods in General to the degree that is needed.

Well I believe mods are obsolete. I have come to a solution. In some forums the term NaN is used for a spam poster. Usually it's a punishment taking the post count down to -99999 or -unlimited posts. Adding the negative element would not only solve this problem, but would piss off the spammers to no end.

It seems good. I say start, by checking the general and NaN'ing a good amount of the spammers there.

That would take away the post count spammers easily. It also is flawless in the fact that if they make a new one, it's easy to NaN a spammer. They could post topics and copy & paste, but it would be easy to detect.

At 6/24/08 11:04 PM, 36Holla wrote:

People don't become 'converted' by just seeing more mature posts.

I don't know how you can say this, because I was one of the most immature users there were until I saw people posting here and I was like, " I rather post like this".

The speed and amount of users in the general forum is the main problem, along with the general age and mindset of being anonomous. For what its worth, I'm cracking down on those lame responses to topics that a few of you have been complaing about, but ultimately that just leads to empty topics. There needs to be some kind of effort to reply to quality threads and create quality threads by multiple users. A single user couldn't possibly turn the tides, but maybe over time a group could if it was willing to accept other users into its mix and continually posted well inspite of everything going on around it. A hard task of course, and this topic really is borderline for this forum. :/

If a wi/ht mod comes around to lock it I wouldn't be surprised, but its cool to see some users care about more than one section.

At 6/24/08 11:20 PM, Corky52 wrote:

At 6/24/08 11:04 PM, 36Holla wrote:

People don't become 'converted' by just seeing more mature posts.

I don't know how you can say this, because I was one of the most immature users there were until I saw people posting here and I was like, " I rather post like this".

Notice the word 'just' in my quote and the context it's used in. It suggests that seeing other mature posters is one thing that can happen to become a better poster, but it isn't the only thing like you keep saying was the case with you. Not gonna say how it happened with you, but usually there's more than one factor that leads to it.

At 6/24/08 11:27 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:

If a wi/ht mod comes around to lock it I wouldn't be surprised, but its cool to see some users care about more than one section.

Well if they do then they do, but it was aimed towards the quality posters of newgrounds and I thought what better place to find them then the where is / how to.

I understand that it is hard because of the large amount of replies that come in so fast, and I saw your thread about cracking down on those type of posts, which of course can only help things.

You never know, like you said it's going to take more then one user who cares, that's also why I came here. I wanted to see if there where enough people interested in actually making general a better place instead of just complaining about it all the time.

At 6/24/08 11:01 PM, NeonFlame126 wrote: I miss the good ol days of general. With Willi and McFooFa and Mechabloby. Perfect examples of what I miss.

Jesus Christ. If that's what you define as "the good old days," I can definitely say that you're part of the problem.

Were you not the one spamming general over and over and over for the longest time? All of your posts were one liners or one word. You would post in a topic just to say you can't help or you have no idea what they are talking about.

You are just saying the repetitive nonsense you hear other people talk about with nothing to back it up with, hell you haven't even been active long enough to say any of this. You just want to be cool and fit in with Wi/Ht regulars so you make a lame post trying to act like you know something. General is lame and awesome at the same time, you just go along with it and post it decent topics and ignore spam. I prefer general because I like to have fun, there is no reason to be so serious.

At 6/25/08 12:32 AM, Joshiwa wrote: Were you not the one spamming general over and over and over for the longest time?

That's exactly my point and thank you for helping me prove it. I was just like everyone else, that is my point. And yes, I do want to be like the regulars in this forum, because I realized what I was doing on general and when I saw how the regulars here posted I wanted to be more like them. This isn't about being on any kind of list. I do that the right way by helping people out.