US Soldiers "Baiting"

[Zeistro]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2007/09/23/AR2007092301431.
html

I'll elaborate for those of you too lazy to read the article. "Baiting" is a technique used by snipers to lure out insurgents. For this is to be done, all they simply do is leave equipment such as IBMS and small arms in a designated zone where they monitor 24/7. If they spot anyone stopping to pick up the equipment and begin to walk off they open fire and quickly dispatch the person with a snipershot.

Now, I can actually understand why this might get under certain people's skin so I decided post this thread dicussing the legitimacy of using such semi-guerrila tactics in this war. They might get someone innocent, but then again, if they're innocent why would they be picking up military grade explosives and weapons? Considering the insurgents use tactics far worse themselves, not to mention the clear benefits, I already have my mind made up unless someone can offer a reasonable counter argument.

Keep in mind, people, it's hard for them to find insurgents since they hide in the population.

[birdwing]

your main argument seems to be why would someone innocent need "military grade weapons"

well If i lived over there I would want a gun to defend myself. The constant fighting, and the instability would call for that, it doesn't matter what 'grade' it is if i see it lying around im gonna snag it.

That doesn't make me an insurgent.

I'm not saying im against this, im just stating that its a possibility some innocent people would get killed.

[uhnoesanoob]

Well, I think it would work if you used common sense, you should be able to tell the difference between curiosity and hostile intent.

[CommanderX1125]

At 6/12/08 09:55 PM, Grammer wrote: I heard about it before on the news, I just don't like the tactic at all.

I have to agree with you, they are basically putting out a bunch of material that is worth a fair penny on the black market in front of a load of people who are living in conditions most people can't even imagine in this country.

These are the same people who go out to collect metal from exploded, hopefully exploded that is, bombs to feed themselves. It seems like an excuse to simply kill as many people as possible to me.

[Imperator]

It's at this point in time I think we need to take the White House and Congress out for an afternoon of electroshocks. Apparently we'll need to throw a few idiot generals in there as well.

It's at this point I think it's safe to say:
Our country has completely lost the concept of "common sense". Ergo, I propose we rename it to "unique sense" or "uncommon sense".

[JoS]

Trying to make a living by selling it? They could simply be a looter.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

"Alright you guys, heres the deal. We go to the really, really fucked up parts of New Orleans, and we leave 2,000 bucks in a bag. BUT, we leave a note saying the money was made from selling child porn. If anyone takes the money, we assume they are a child pornography distrubuter and arrest them!"

[Coherent]

At 6/12/08 08:20 PM, Zeistro wrote: but then again, if they're innocent why would they be picking up military grade explosives and weapons?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe they're poor and desperate? Ever think of that?

[bcdemon]

I think it shows that even the US military feels the need to stoop to certain lower levels to gain a lead.

This tactic WILL kill innocent people. Does the US not care, or do they figure 1 innocent Iraqi for 2-3 terrorists or insurgents is a good trade?

[CommanderX1125]

At 6/13/08 12:22 AM, JoS wrote: Trying to make a living by selling it? They could simply be a looter.

Tell me oh wise one, what would you do with materials that you just acquired if they were weapons in the middle of a dust ball? There isn't much there to do with weapons other than shoot at other people, or sell them.

It is inconcievable that every last person there is simply a looter hoping to kill U.S. troops, even if it is but one person, that is one person that didn't deserve death, and was trapped with the lure of some quick money to live another day with.

[slowerthenb4]

It is a serious accusation to charge soldiers with murder. Obviously in the context of this particular article the soldiers seem grossly overzealous with their "baiting" tactic.

It is my honest opinion, however, that we are not capable of judging these soldiers based on a washington post article.

unfortunately for these guys the media has gotten a whiff of this juicy story and cant help but give it all the usual fixins to spice the story right up. I just hope this wont be an another "action" item for ambitious congressman as that will no doubt insure these guys are going to end up as fodder.

These men will be tried by their superiors given all the facts and information available.

How the hell are we supposed to know those guys were not legitimate badguys? would you pick up plastic explosives?

[homor]

bedcause someone could just be picking them up to polish them and give them to defenless orphans that are being attacked by zombies.

[BuddhaGeo]

At 6/13/08 12:22 AM, JoS wrote: Trying to make a living by selling it? They could simply be a looter.

I concur. I always foray into villages in hopes of finding abandoned boxes, filled with weapons and grenades, in order to sell them afterwards on the black market.

[Elfer]

Well, as it's been mentioned, there's any number of legitimate reasons for an innocent person to pick up a weapon that's lying around. Hell, there's even the off chance that they want to keep it out of the hands of insurgents and return it to the military (though in an infinite amount of cases, this would occur exactly once).

In any case, what I'd like to add to this topic is that at first glance, I thought it said "US Soldiers 'Biting,'" and I was quite disappointed by the actual outcome.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 6/13/08 08:06 AM, BuddhaGeo wrote:

I concur. I always foray into villages in hopes of finding abandoned boxes, filled with weapons and grenades, in order to sell them afterwards on the black market.

Thats because you are rich and spoiled.

THEY don't have their mommies buy them computers and feed them their whole lives. They are exeedingly poor and living in a war zone, in which two sides are shooting at each other, neither caring about who's in between.

So when they see thousand+ dollar equipment in the street? They take it.

Not to mention a fair number probably want it for, ghasp, self defense.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 6/13/08 05:42 AM, homor wrote: bedcause someone could just be picking them up to polish them and give them to defenless orphans that are being attacked by zombies.

No Iraqi civillian has ever once been murdered in Iraq since the occupation, ever.

God your a fucking idiot.

[therealsylvos]

Seriously, if I see a gun in the street you can be sure as shit I'm not gonna just leaving it lying there for some kid to pick up and kill himself with.
So I can not approve of any tactic that would get me killed if i were injected into the situation.

[animehater]

Waiting around for a single guy to pick up a gun you left sounds like a waste of time to me.

[reviewer-general]

Hmm.

Maybe the civilians are a bit uncomfortable that MILITARY WEAPONS are lying in the middle of their street?

;

[LazyDrunk]

Seems sensible to me, under a few conditions.

1. If stumbled upon by passers-by, who subsequently alert the PROPER authorities (us), the bait-weapons are collected and/or diseminated elsewhere.

2. The inhabitants are warned against fucking with unattended military caches.

3. A certain percentage are detained sans the headshot for questioning.

Each family is allowed an AK or M4. One. Stockpiling is a no-no.

[Prinzy2]

So if a child were to pick this weapon up, would they shoot? Or would they lose a perfectly good weapon?

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 6/13/08 05:04 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

2. The inhabitants are warned against fucking with unattended military caches.

A wonderful idea; however, the military would not do it, since it lowers the ability to catch insurgents living in the area

3. A certain percentage are detained sans the headshot for questioning.

Make the percentage 100% and thats a great deal.

Each family is allowed an AK or M4. One. Stockpiling is a no-no.

Families could be thinking to sell the weapon.

[poxpower]

At 6/13/08 06:43 PM, Grammer wrote: Imagine if police in NYC arrested persons who picked up a bag of marijuana on the street corner that the police planted there.

If you found a briefcase full of drugs/money in the street and picked it up, you're seriously asking for MAJOR trouble.

People don't leave weapons, drugs, loads of cash etc. just lying around. If you pick it up, either you're a criminal or you're going for a Darwin award.

[AapoJoki]

At 6/13/08 06:51 PM, poxpower wrote: If you found a briefcase full of drugs/money in the street and picked it up, you're seriously asking for MAJOR trouble.

People don't leave weapons, drugs, loads of cash etc. just lying around. If you pick it up, either you're a criminal or you're going for a Darwin award.

To be fair, the situation in some parts of Iraq is pretty anarchistic, so it's not that hard to imagine that ordinary people will loot up something, especially if it's something they can potentially defend themselves with.

[poxpower]

At 6/13/08 07:03 PM, Grammer wrote:

Do you think it would be an okay technique for the police to use?

Well here we can sort of report it, but I wouldn't touch like a huge briefcase of cash.

Anyways, reading the article further I realize they're doing this really half-ass, laying down pretty much anything so that if people touch it, they have an excuse to kill them.
Horrible.

But in principle, it's a pretty sweet technique.

[FeelinGood]

I am sure word of mouth goes around not to go picking up guns laying out in an open street..

but really, nothing we say will affect if they do it or not so whatever

[SolInvictus]

thank God baiting doesn't happen here; i can't help but examine and/or pick-up intrigueing objects.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 6/13/08 06:51 PM, poxpower wrote:

People don't leave weapons, drugs, loads of cash etc. just lying around. If you pick it up, either you're a criminal or you're going for a Darwin award.

Or you're in crushing poverty because your entire country has been torn apart by war, and you desperately need the money to feed your family that a box of bullets will fetch.

[hippl5]

At 6/13/08 07:47 PM, Cuppa-LettuceNog wrote: Or you're in crushing poverty because your entire country has been torn apart by war, and you desperately need the money to feed your family that a box of bullets will fetch.

Stealing has consequences, tough shit.

[SolInvictus]

At 6/13/08 08:06 PM, Grammer wrote:

At 6/13/08 07:28 PM, poxpower wrote: Well here we can sort of report it, but I wouldn't touch like a huge briefcase of cash.

Or even a bag of pot? I mean, let's take the fear of a mob hit out of the equation. Bag of pot on the street corner. Doesn't seem like it was intentionally placed there. Fair game?

i once witnessed two men in a car drive by and throw a brifcase full of cigarettes and pot as they went. that was interesting.