Hitler. Charismatic?

[GunnerX86]

Ok I'm going to give you the reason why I made this thread.Here's why:
One day I'm in class at my high school.My teacher asks us what are the first 3 words that come to your mind when I say Adolf Hitler.I say charismatic,charming and cruel.After I say that everybody looks at me like I'm some weirdo and my teacher sends me to the principle office.

Alot of you might be thinking, she did the right thing Hitler was a cruel man and was definately not a good person.Here's my:
Hitler was cruel and was definately not good.I didn't say he was good I said he was charismatic and charming.Charismatic means charming which means having the ability to make people like you.That doesn't mean you are good.Hitler was charismatic, he got all nonJewish Germans to like him.

You can even look in the dictionary to see if I'm correct.(I recommend a Webster Dictionary to make sure it's accurate.)

[poxpower]

well my guess is that you're generally an annoying prick with a shitty attitude so the teacher sent you to the principal's office ( as usual ) because you just try to hog attention by saying annoying things.

At any rate, who'd say Hitler was charming?
Charming is either a guy who gets with lots of women, a really kind soft guy or a magic genie.

[GunnerX86]

At 6/12/08 03:07 AM, poxpower wrote: well my guess is that you're generally an annoying prick with a shitty attitude so the teacher sent you to the principal's office ( as usual ) because you just try to hog attention by saying annoying things.

At any rate, who'd say Hitler was charming?
Charming is either a guy who gets with lots of women, a really kind soft guy or a magic genie.

Did I not give the definition of charming!That definition is the definition that is used by many people today because someone someday said that was the definition of charming and it was soon passed on to lots of people and if they had kids they told their kids that was the definition.

[poxpower]

At 6/12/08 03:16 AM, GunnerX86 wrote:

Did I not give the definition of charming!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/c harming

look again, my 12 year old friend.
Someone's who's charming is LIKEABLE, ADORABLE, or GOOD-LOOKING or has MAGIC POWERS.

It is not synonym with charismatic.

[GunnerX86]

At 6/12/08 03:51 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 6/12/08 03:16 AM, GunnerX86 wrote:

Did I not give the definition of charming!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/c harming

look again, my 12 year old friend.
Someone's who's charming is LIKEABLE, ADORABLE, or GOOD-LOOKING or has MAGIC POWERS.

It is not synonym with charismatic.

YOU ARE A RETARD!!!I am not 12!!!Also Hitler was charming!He was able to get people to like him!!!That is what I am saying!!!I was trying to get to the people who think that the people who call Hitler charming are Nazi pigs!!!I was trying to explain to those kind of people that it doesn't mean you are bad if you call Hitler charming!!!Also I checked in the dictionary, I now relize my mistake.I should have said he had charisma, which means a special quality in one that inspires devotion or fascination.But anyways the whole reason for this thread is to correct a misconception of vocabulary.Many people today think if you are charismatic and charming you are good person, which isn't true.

[Tomsan]

At 6/12/08 03:07 AM, poxpower wrote: well my guess is that you're generally an annoying prick with a shitty attitude so the teacher sent you to the principal's office ( as usual ) because you just try to hog attention by saying annoying things.

probably so true.

I wonder why you would come up with 3 words about hitlers personality. I would say something in the line of: WWII; jew genocide; third reich.

about the definition dilema, I would say that charismatic expresses the ability to charm people, but I dont think that is what hitler did. He disillusioned the people with work and promises. He also performed some sort of mass hypnosis. He was not charismatic in my opinion because he was vile aggressive and dominant.

He was definatly no sweet talker or lovable. He was very dominant and in the beginning of his might progressive. Not all leaders can be considered charismatic or charming, would you say the same about Stalin?

Kennedy would be charismatic in my opinion.

[SadisticMonkey]

Not because you're wrong or anything (which you are), but could you like punch yourself in the throat, quite hard if possible? Thanks.

[LazyDrunk]

At 6/12/08 06:00 AM, Tomsan wrote:

At 6/12/08 03:07 AM, poxpower wrote: well my guess is that you're generally an annoying prick with a shitty attitude so the teacher sent you to the principal's office ( as usual ) because you just try to hog attention by saying annoying things.

probably so true.

I didn't know your tonsils craved such minimal periodical contact.

Does it tickle?

I wonder why you would come up with 3 words about hitlers personality. I would say something in the line of: WWII; jew genocide; third reich.

Seven words.

But nice punctuation.

He was definatly no sweet talker or lovable.

Adolf Hitler had more support than the Weimars initially.

He was very dominant and in the beginning of his might progressive. Not all leaders can be considered charismatic or charming, would you say the same about Stalin?

Stalin purged his own people into submission. Hitler put his own people on a pedestal.

Kennedy would be charismatic in my opinion.

HItler was a man before his time.

[zoolrule]

At 6/12/08 07:12 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

I didn't know your tonsils craved such minimal periodical contact.

Does it tickle?

Wow you really contra-argued what he said

I wonder why you would come up with 3 words about hitlers personality. I would say something in the line of: WWII; jew genocide; third reich.

Seven words.

But nice punctuation.

Wow you really contra-argued what he said

He was definatly no sweet talker or lovable.

Adolf Hitler had more support than the Weimars initially.

Well considering the way he got the support, he was just Evil, not genius. it's like i'll fix my country's unemployment problem by murdering all of the unemployed.

He was very dominant and in the beginning of his might progressive. Not all leaders can be considered charismatic or charming, would you say the same about Stalin?

Stalin purged his own people into submission. Hitler put his own people on a pedestal.

It wasn't Hitler, actually the only thing he have done was that he stopped paying the Versailles treaty debts, which was the main thing that pulled them out of the crisis. The second thing was boycotting the Jews, which, i'll quote myself "it's like i'll fix my country's unemployment problem by murdering all of the unemployed". only there he killed the employed.

Kennedy would be charismatic in my opinion.

HItler was a man before his time.

No, Hitler was crazy stupid man.

[Austrian-Mats]

At 6/12/08 07:33 AM, zoolrule wrote:

Well considering the way he got the support, he was just Evil, not genius. it's like i'll fix my country's unemployment problem by murdering all of the unemployed.

Kennedy would be charismatic in my opinion.

No, Hitler was crazy stupid man.

You, kind sir, obviously have NO sense for history and human psychology at all. You're just an complede idiot, repeating over and over the things you see in TV or learn in your high-class (and oh-so-objective) history lesson.

Hitler wasn't EVIL. Nor was he STUPID. Hell, would a stupid, evil Idiot seduce a whiole country just with his words? And hell yeah, Hitler WAS chrismatic. Have you seen one of his speeches? The crowd is fucking crazy, absorving every single words that left his lips with passion - and you say he had no charisma. How would anybody without charisma manage to do this?

Well, how crazy Hitler was, I don't know... he surely had received severe psychological damage during his childhood (by his cruel father and the early death of his beloved mother). Furthermore, he had some kind of over-sensible soul of an artist, making hin extra-psychotic. This combined with the antisemism fueled in his head, the lost WW1, suffering and poverty among the people, a weak democracy, the Versailles Treary AND his incredible talent of speech led to the horrible events named WW2 and the holocaust.

I can recommend you to read the novel "The Alternative Hypothesis" by Eric Emanuel Schmitt, in which he assumes that Hitler was accepted at the university of art in Vienna. Interesting book.

Well, if you now assume that i'm some kind of Hitler-Fan or holocaust-deniere, well, then I'll just have to accuse you of complete lack of common sense and a lack of comprehensive ability. I just want to make clear that Hitler was human, too. And virtually anybody could have played his role under the same circumstances.

Have a nice day.

[zoolrule]

At 6/12/08 08:51 AM, Austrian-Mats wrote: You, kind sir, obviously have NO sense for history and human psychology at all. You're just an complede idiot, repeating over and over the things you see in TV or learn in your high-class (and oh-so-objective) history lesson.

Hitler wasn't EVIL. Nor was he STUPID. Hell, would a stupid, evil Idiot seduce a whiole country just with his words? And hell yeah, Hitler WAS chrismatic. Have you seen one of his speeches? The crowd is fucking crazy, absorving every single words that left his lips with passion - and you say he had no charisma. How would anybody without charisma manage to do this?

Well, how crazy Hitler was, I don't know... he surely had received severe psychological damage during his childhood (by his cruel father and the early death of his beloved mother). Furthermore, he had some kind of over-sensible soul of an artist, making hin extra-psychotic. This combined with the antisemism fueled in his head, the lost WW1, suffering and poverty among the people, a weak democracy, the Versailles Treary AND his incredible talent of speech led to the horrible events named WW2 and the holocaust.

I can recommend you to read the novel "The Alternative Hypothesis" by Eric Emanuel Schmitt, in which he assumes that Hitler was accepted at the university of art in Vienna. Interesting book.

Well, if you now assume that i'm some kind of Hitler-Fan or holocaust-deniere, well, then I'll just have to accuse you of complete lack of common sense and a lack of comprehensive ability. I just want to make clear that Hitler was human, too. And virtually anybody could have played his role under the same circumstances.

Have a nice day.

Well yea, he was charismatic, but there are a lot of charismatic people, it's not like you find one charismatic person in 70 million people.
The thing that made him special was that he was a evil person, crazy. I want to make it clear that he wasn't smart.
He was successful because of the bad conditions in Germany, which ALWAYS seduces a dictator, and because he was willing to do evil things in order to retrieve the German pride to Germany. eventually, who doesn't want to hear that he is the superior race?

[reviewer-general]

At 6/12/08 08:51 AM, Austrian-Mats wrote: Hitler wasn't EVIL. Nor was he STUPID. Hell, would a stupid, evil Idiot seduce a whiole country just with his words?

No, an idiot would invade Russia in the winter.

Oh, wait...

It was a joke, don't freak out. ;)

;

[Me-Patch]

At 6/12/08 08:51 AM, Austrian-Mats wrote: I can recommend you to read the novel "The Alternative Hypothesis" by Eric Emanuel Schmitt, in which he assumes that Hitler was accepted at the university of art in Vienna. Interesting book.

You should read Albert Speers autobiography, Hitler was an idiot. He was charismatic, and charming, but also stupid, childish, and evil.

[ILovezoms]

if only Hitler wasnt evil he could of been great...

[FC-Thun-Fan]

At 6/12/08 08:51 AM, Austrian-Mats wrote: A GREAT POST!

I agree with you 100%. Bravo!

[Creek]

At 6/12/08 08:51 AM, Austrian-Mats wrote:

Hitler wasn't EVIL.

Murduring 6 million Jews and 6 million others is definitely evil.

[ByronicHero]

A genocidal maniac he may have been, but he was indeed charismatic. And successful as he managed to turn a country that was in a major depression into a global superpower within a short amount of time.

Hitler's government was among the most efficiently run. It's a shame he had a nervous breakdown and ended up fucking the whole thing over.

[Idiot-Finder]

At 6/12/08 02:52 AM, GunnerX86 wrote:

Found one

[LazyDrunk]

At 6/12/08 10:56 AM, zoolrule wrote:

At 6/12/08 08:51 AM, Austrian-Mats wrote: pwnage
Have a nice day.

Well yea, he was charismatic

Are you retarded?

Not only did you 180 yourself right on top of the man-sandwich the OP started, you French rolled yourself right onto my cock as well.

He was a man before his time; society could've helped him out of the warped solutions he came to with proper treatment.

Fool.

[Tomsan]

At 6/12/08 07:12 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 6/12/08 06:00 AM, Tomsan wrote:

At 6/12/08 03:07 AM, poxpower wrote: well my guess is that you're generally an annoying prick with a shitty attitude so the teacher sent you to the principal's office ( as usual ) because you just try to hog attention by saying annoying things.

probably so true.

I didn't know your tonsils craved such minimal periodical contact.

I didn't speak

lame ass response to lame ass response.

I wonder why you would come up with 3 words about hitlers personality. I would say something in the line of: WWII; jew genocide; third reich.

Seven words.

ok ill retry holocaust, Nazism, world-war (yes its true it can be considered as ONE word)
btw ure a fucking dipshit

He was definatly no sweet talker or lovable.

Adolf Hitler had more support than the Weimars initially.

You're point being? support equals love-ability?

He was very dominant and in the beginning of his might progressive. Not all leaders can be considered charismatic or charming, would you say the same about Stalin?

Stalin purged his own people into submission. Hitler put his own people on a pedestal.

Hitler purged his own people as well near the end of the war and stalin was very popular at the beginning

"Stalin gained popular appeal from his presentation as a 'man of the people' from the poorer classes. The Russian people were tired from the world war and the civil war, and Stalin's policy of concentrating in building "Socialism in One Country" was seen as an optimistic antidote to war."

so hitler and stalin are quite comparable

Kennedy would be charismatic in my opinion.

HItler was a man before his time.

you're point being?

[TehChahlesh]

At 6/12/08 03:07 AM, poxpower wrote: well my guess is that you're generally an annoying prick with a shitty attitude so the teacher sent you to the principal's office ( as usual ) because you just try to hog attention by saying annoying things.

Close, but he's no doubt trying to be the constant voice of dissent in a misguided attempt at "thinking outside the box" and being a rebel + cunt at the same time.

[strikepravus]

I'm not sure about agreeing to charming and charismatic, but he did manage to convince loads of people to be on his side. Definitely a good public speaker. Cruel I can associate Hitler more with. It's also this view of WWII...how terrible it and Hitler was tends to make people think Hitler=evil. I lean more towards that bad image of Hitler, but unless you're a radical Neo-Nazi, you should still have the right to at least state your opinion.

[DzGuy]

At 6/12/08 09:05 PM, strikepravus wrote: I'm not sure about agreeing to charming and charismatic, but he did manage to convince loads of people to be on his side. Definitely a good public speaker.

That's what being charismatic is durrr.

[Elfer]

You're in high school. It doesn't matter if what you're saying has basis in fact, all that matters is if it's what they want to hear.

Yes, this is unjust, unfair, and illogical. It's also reality.

Cope.

[Natron888]

At 6/12/08 08:51 AM, Austrian-Mats wrote:

At 6/12/08 07:33 AM, zoolrule wrote:

Well considering the way he got the support, he was just Evil, not genius. it's like i'll fix my country's unemployment problem by murdering all of the unemployed.

Kennedy would be charismatic in my opinion.

No, Hitler was crazy stupid man.

You, kind sir, obviously have NO sense for history and human psychology at all. You're just an complede idiot, repeating over and over the things you see in TV or learn in your high-class (and oh-so-objective) history lesson.

Hitler wasn't EVIL. Nor was he STUPID. Hell, would a stupid, evil Idiot seduce a whiole country just with his words? And hell yeah, Hitler WAS chrismatic. Have you seen one of his speeches? The crowd is fucking crazy, absorving every single words that left his lips with passion - and you say he had no charisma. How would anybody without charisma manage to do this?

Well, how crazy Hitler was, I don't know... he surely had received severe psychological damage during his childhood (by his cruel father and the early death of his beloved mother). Furthermore, he had some kind of over-sensible soul of an artist, making hin extra-psychotic. This combined with the antisemism fueled in his head, the lost WW1, suffering and poverty among the people, a weak democracy, the Versailles Treary AND his incredible talent of speech led to the horrible events named WW2 and the holocaust.

I can recommend you to read the novel "The Alternative Hypothesis" by Eric Emanuel Schmitt, in which he assumes that Hitler was accepted at the university of art in Vienna. Interesting book.

Well, if you now assume that i'm some kind of Hitler-Fan or holocaust-deniere, well, then I'll just have to accuse you of complete lack of common sense and a lack of comprehensive ability. I just want to make clear that Hitler was human, too. And virtually anybody could have played his role under the same circumstances.

Have a nice day.

My god (FSM), you sir have just said one of the most intelligent things Ive ever heard on this forum. I dislike Hitler, but I am tired of people always saying he was "one-of-a-kind" and "the most evil man in history." Surely there where equally evil men in the world, but few of them had the ambition, intelligence, opportunity, and cruelty to be noted as much as him. (That doesn't make him any less evil though.) Also I agree that he was physically a human.

[LazyDrunk]

world-war (yes its true it can be considered as ONE word)

btw ure a fucking dipshit

Does your school offer finger paint?

[Angry-Hatter]

Wow, this thread turned into a flamewar in an amazingly short time. Apparently, giving an honest, level headed analasys of Hitler is a touchy subject to some people. And I find the OP's three words, charismatic, charming, and cruel, to be a very apt assessment of the man. The same three words could be used to succinctly describe any sociopath. "Evil" is too ambiguous of a word to describe anyone, and I doubt if there's any social scientist or psychologist worth their name that would use the word to describe Hitler.

What I found most disturbing that noone seems willing to comment on, however, is this.

At 6/12/08 02:52 AM, GunnerX86 wrote

After I say that everybody looks at me like I'm some weirdo and my teacher sends me to the principle office.

The teacher is in my oppinion committing malfeasance here. It shouldn't matter if one of the students came up with the words brilliant, strong, and smart to describe Hitler; the object of civics class is to start debate and as long as the student can motivate his or her oppinion, then the lesson has been a success.

[TheMason]

At 6/12/08 06:00 AM, Tomsan wrote: about the definition dilema, I would say that charismatic expresses the ability to charm people, but I dont think that is what hitler did. He disillusioned the people with work and promises. He also performed some sort of mass hypnosis. He was not charismatic in my opinion because he was vile aggressive and dominant.

The manipulation of mass opinion is the essesence of what charisma is all about. Furthermore, charisma is amoral which means that it can be used for good or bad. Therefore, a charismatic leader can be passive and lead by example such as Ghandi or very dominant and flamboyant like Hitler. Furthermore, they can use their ability to persuade to peacefully resist or go about the extermination of a particular group of people.

Furthermore, here are some definitions from dictionary.com:

2. a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people.
3. the special virtue of an office, function, position, etc., that confers or is thought to confer on the person holding it an unusual ability for leadership, worthiness of veneration, or the like.

a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm.

a personal attractiveness or interestingness that enables you to influence others

If you're religious one may say Hitler had a spiritual gift...from Satan. He also had personal qualities that drove him to develop the public persona to consolidate Nazi power and perpetuate his atrocities.

The thing you (and the topic starter's teacher) need to remember is that in this and similar cases, you are adding a value-laden layer to the definition that simply is not there.

Same thing with charm:

a power of pleasing or attracting, as through personality or beauty (SOURCE: dictionary.com)

Again there is no value statement here about positive, passive or moral personality traits. You have to remember that people at the time of Hitler's rise to power described him as charismatic and charming. Furthermore, Hitler's message was very pleasing and attractive to regular Germans who were suffering under externally imposed punishments. He did this by creating a public persona that was strong and defiant in a time where that personality trait pleased and attracted the German electorate. In private and in small groups he has been described as very charming without the dominating and overpowering persona he used in public.

He was definatly no sweet talker or lovable. He was very dominant and in the beginning of his might progressive. Not all leaders can be considered charismatic or charming, would you say the same about Stalin?

Again, a dominant personality can be charismatic and many people have used personal charisma for bad: Charlie Manson, David Koeresch, Jim Jones and so on. Just because you're an asshole does not mean you cannot be charismatic since the very definition only lays out that charisma is a personality trait...but does not define whether these traits are good or bad.

I would not say the same thing about Stalin because he used fear and was more insular than Hitler's outgoing personality. Kruschev, Castro & Chavez would be charismatic communist leaders.

Kennedy would be charismatic in my opinion.

Kennedy is problematic. Afterall, he did not get that many more votes than Nixon and that election was everybit the nail-biter as the 2000 election (to include persistant claims of vote fraud). Just look at the space program. He gave a speech about beating the USSR to the moon that his (in)action following this demonstrated he was talking out of his ass until the congress and public put pressure on him to pursue the dream more vigilantly. To have to be pushed by your own people is not a trait of charisma.

However, I would say that FDR, MLK and Reagan are examples of US charismatic leaders.

[D2Kvirus]

At 6/12/08 11:22 PM, Elfer wrote: You're in high school. It doesn't matter if what you're saying has basis in fact, all that matters is if it's what they want to hear.

Yes, this is unjust, unfair, and illogical. It's also reality.

I think you meant "That's High School for you."

To be frank, Hitler was clearly charismatic, because you need a level of charisma in order to sweep to power in the way that he did and to perform his acts with very little public outcry from within Germany, as charisma is good at blinding people from truth. From Charles Manson to Tony Blair, people have been able to use that to their advantage and avoid some very pertinent questions being asked.

Now, "charming" on the other hand I have a problem with: I can see the charisma there, but very little charm - not least because he had an awful, rasping voice that has little charm to it, and who did he really charm other than Eva Braun?
If you take Traudl Junge's memoirs as legitimate (as opposed to, say, some historical ass-covering), she says that Hitler could obliterate any charm he had as soon as he veered off into his politics/hatred (delete as appropriate).

[TheMason]

At 6/14/08 01:20 PM, D2Kvirus wrote: Now, "charming" on the other hand I have a problem with: I can see the charisma there, but very little charm - not least because he had an awful, rasping voice that has little charm to it, and who did he really charm other than Eva Braun?

In small groups with industrial and intellectual elites, Hitler could be charming. He turned off the public persona and took a more mild approach to dealing with these people.

If you take Traudl Junge's memoirs as legitimate (as opposed to, say, some historical ass-covering), she says that Hitler could obliterate any charm he had as soon as he veered off into his politics/hatred (delete as appropriate).

True...but that does not mean that he did not have charm to begin with.