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Zerovoting and Exposure.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-03-17 10:02:17 Reply

At 1 hour ago, SirSirius wrote: so? 6 votes, total 25 stars... 25/6 = 4,16

That's where voting power comes in, and trust me, if the admins take away the voting power option then people will go mad. If we try your idea of removing the voting panel and basing everything on review scores (which, by the way, has been suggested loads and loads of times before), then song scores will only be based on a few, if any, individual scores from people.

Think about it, the amount of reviews that an average musician will get on Newgrounds is 1 or 2 at the most, and if the voting panel is removed entirely then a lot of songs will have a score based on just one or two people. I dunno about you but I'd much rather have a score comprised of 20 votes and 2 reviews, rather than just a score comprised of 2 reviews.

Just keep on submitting tracks at a consistent rate, work on improving your music, be very active in the forums, review other people with a lot of constructive criticism and generally be a helpful contributor. Rather than think of ways to get rid of 0-bombing, you should try and work with the system as it is now. It's an improvement over the system before the redesign and if you play your cards right you'll get plenty of recognition.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-03-17 10:16:47 Reply

Ok thanks that post built me up a bit :)
You are obviously right about scores based on reviews only.
But why would people go mad without voting power?
It really doesn't fit into the audio portal cause you don't even get xp for voting...
You don't get xp for voting on the audioportal (which is good because otherwise there would be even more random 0bombing i guess..) but why is voting power relevant in the audioportal? It just makes it harder when you get 0bombed to recover. So you have to vote randomly on random flashes (why should a musician have any clue about flashes?) in order to be able to react to some voting-over-powered 0bomber...

Also: why can't I increase my votingpower by reviewing tracks on the ap? This would enforce people to review more often and i wouldnt be forced to go to the flash portal and vote randomly...
(besides the fact i think voting power is a stupid idea in general because were living in a time of democracy... but hey thats just how newgrounds work, so ok...)

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-03-17 10:51:06 Reply

At 24 minutes ago, SirSirius wrote: Ok thanks that post built me up a bit :)
You are obviously right about scores based on reviews only.
But why would people go mad without voting power?
It really doesn't fit into the audio portal cause you don't even get xp for voting...
You don't get xp for voting on the audioportal (which is good because otherwise there would be even more random 0bombing i guess..) but why is voting power relevant in the audioportal? It just makes it harder when you get 0bombed to recover. So you have to vote randomly on random flashes (why should a musician have any clue about flashes?) in order to be able to react to some voting-over-powered 0bomber...

Also: why can't I increase my votingpower by reviewing tracks on the ap? This would enforce people to review more often and i wouldnt be forced to go to the flash portal and vote randomly...
(besides the fact i think voting power is a stupid idea in general because were living in a time of democracy... but hey thats just how newgrounds work, so ok...)

In this case, yes you're right. I totally agree with what you're saying - voting power isn't relevant in the Audio Portal when you get it from the Flash Portal. Still, removing the power is unfair - people will complain, and rightly so. A lot of us musicians go to the Flash Portal everyday to vote on five Flash submissions, even though we're not interested in Flash, just so that we can get a decent voting power. I'd be pissed if, after years of voting on Flash, all of that was in vain.

What would be a nice idea is if we could increase our voting power by voting on 5 Audio submissions too, or maybe having a separate voting power for Flash, Audio and Art. Still, I don't see this improving the situation on 0-bombers - when it comes to that all we have to do is put up with it until the admins implement a better system.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-24 18:51:22 Reply

Haha... Just checked out my tracks and realised I've been a victim of this too. The reviews are all 5* but the score is 3*.
Made me giggle though, sad that people have to do that. They must feel so insecure... ^^


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-24 19:35:23 Reply

Now that this thread is revived ill bring up something that ive brought up a million times before without a proper response from anyone,

whats wrong with a system that alerts mods when someone dishes out 30 or 40 zeroes within a 12 or 24 hour period?

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-24 19:50:10 Reply

At 9/24/12 07:35 PM, jpbear wrote: whats wrong with a system that alerts mods when someone dishes out 30 or 40 zeroes within a 12 or 24 hour period?

that's a good idea.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-24 20:03:36 Reply

At 9/24/12 07:35 PM, jpbear wrote: Now that this thread is revived ill bring up something that ive brought up a million times before without a proper response from anyone,

whats wrong with a system that alerts mods when someone dishes out 30 or 40 zeroes within a 12 or 24 hour period?

I don't remember what was said about this idea, but I'm pretty sure one of the staff shot it down once before. If you want to suggest it, send a PM to Tom, as a lot of work has been done on the mod tools, he might still be open to suggestions.

Personally, I don't like the idea, because I don't see scores being something people should be getting all gungho over. Score means nothing, the reviews are what matter. I'm one of the people that voted we just remove the numbered vote system entirely.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-24 20:11:10 Reply

Good old 0-bombing at 11:58 on a Tuesday Night. Used to vote my own stuff down a couple points just to avoid the onslaught of zero's that would destroy the top 20 of each genre.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-24 20:15:36 Reply

At 9/24/12 08:11 PM, Cross666 wrote: Good old 0-bombing at 11:58 on a Tuesday Night. Used to vote my own stuff down a couple points just to avoid the onslaught of zero's that would destroy the top 20 of each genre.

the good ol days :(

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-24 20:51:56 Reply

At 9/24/12 07:35 PM, jpbear wrote: whats wrong with a system that alerts mods when someone dishes out 30 or 40 zeroes within a 12 or 24 hour period?

Because it sounds a lot like a "Vote Police".

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-24 21:48:45 Reply

At 9/24/12 08:51 PM, BrokenDeck wrote:
At 9/24/12 07:35 PM, jpbear wrote: whats wrong with a system that alerts mods when someone dishes out 30 or 40 zeroes within a 12 or 24 hour period?
Because it sounds a lot like a "Vote Police".

thats exactly what i meant by not a real response

how is a system that alerts mods when there is a 100% known zero bomber overbearing?

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-09-25 00:37:24 Reply

At 9/24/12 08:51 PM, BrokenDeck wrote:
At 9/24/12 07:35 PM, jpbear wrote: whats wrong with a system that alerts mods when someone dishes out 30 or 40 zeroes within a 12 or 24 hour period?
Because it sounds a lot like a "Vote Police".

To be honest, I think that's the best solution. Let mods see the IP address, but never a username: that way, there's no pinning names to faces (or... names to... usernames...).

Voting on other people's submissions is a privilege, not a right. If people show that they are not mature or responsible enough to use the feature, then it should be taken away from them. It's pathetic that we should have to treat users like this - like kindergarteners who need to learn how to play nice - but at the moment, I think it's the best system.

Other systems - such as removing voting power or removing the votes altogether, or basing it off of review scores... they all punish people who actually vote fairly. Don't punish everyone: just target those people who act like arseholes.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-17 01:52:00 Reply

I seriously think something needs to be done about this. Right now one of my movies is being a victim of downvoting and there's no way to stop it. I've pmed the mods about it but got no response so i feel as if i'm being fucked by everyone here.

Thanks for submitting to the portal. We don't care how if it came out good or not take this pole up your ass. (That's how i feel right now)


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-17 02:27:13 Reply

EVERYONE I FOUND SOLUTION!

make dubstep

lol fuk u

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-17 02:49:23 Reply

At 12/17/12 02:27 AM, HyperTrough wrote: EVERYONE I FOUND SOLUTION!

make dubstep

I've tried...

and failed.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-17 02:56:49 Reply

At 12/17/12 02:27 AM, HyperTrough wrote: EVERYONE I FOUND SOLUTION!

make dubstep

No thanks. I have a test tone to simulate that :P

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-17 05:20:46 Reply

At 12/17/12 01:52 AM, DemonicDragon93 wrote: I seriously think something needs to be done about this. Right now one of my movies

Wut, movies/games get rated fairly even. Even art is rated fairly even.

is being a victim of downvoting and there's no way to stop it. I've pmed the mods about it but got no response so i feel as if i'm being fucked by everyone here.

You don't simply PM Mods to inform them about zero-bombing - they give no fucks at all, and they're powerless to zero-bombers anyway.

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Idea for NG Audio Exposure

Here's my idea:

1 - Have a SoundCloud/YouTube account

2 - Post your stuff on there (make sure to disable downloads on SC)

2.5 - Comment on lots of songs (don't ever mention to them to check you out, and make sure you listened to the song and enjoyed it)

3 - Achieve a minor fanbase (only possible if you're actually good at music)

4 - In the comment section of SC/YT, put the link of the NG version (saying that it's available for download on Newgrounds only)

5 - ???

6 - Profit

Or if you have loads of friends on Facebook/Twitter, share the NG versions with them. Who knows, maybe some of your friends will like your songs.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-17 17:18:42 Reply

well that's the thing. it's not sound it's more Flash (Swf) it's still the same problem


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-17 19:12:31 Reply

At 12/17/12 05:18 PM, DemonicDragon93 wrote: well that's the thing. it's not sound it's more Flash (Swf) it's still the same problem

What's your problem, mate? You go on here, pissing, then expect everyone should have fucking solution for your own stuff.


What comes around goes around...

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-18 03:24:57 Reply

At 12/17/12 07:12 PM, dem0lecule wrote:

*Ahem* Ignoring you

People I believe The Topic is Zerovoting/Exposure. Does the advice on the first page with the music pretains to Flash as well?


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-22 08:46:10 Reply

This thread should be listed in the rules, and the forum should be optimized to pop this thread on "zero", "voting", "zero voting", "zero bombing"...etc, because most of us don't spell zerovoting, zerobombing, zerovotersmakemeangry...etc

I was searching for this thread for quite a while.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-22 11:59:27 Reply

WHY DON'T PEOPLE LOVE MY BLAND AND UNINTERESTING SONGS THIS SYSTEM IS SO UNFAIR TOM FULP DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE AUDIO PORTAL.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-22 12:47:34 Reply

At 12/22/12 11:59 AM, Buoy wrote: WHY DON'T PEOPLE LOVE MY BLAND AND UNINTERESTING SONGS THIS SYSTEM IS SO UNFAIR TOM FULP DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE AUDIO PORTAL.

lol

for me, it's "why don't people like my niche and not electronic songs this society is so unfair tom fulp doesn't care about dem orchestral composerz!"

I find that the larger the base of people looking at whatever it is (with the exception of the art portal, where most people browsing it seem to at least have that artistic ability to set aside differences and take pride in finding a good piece of work and promoting it through positive voting), the more even the vote is. The only way to fix this issue is to get more people listening to the audio portal... just like how thousands upon thousands of people watch even the most average flash, you need at least a few thousand people to listen to your audio for the vote to actually approximate a reality... Unfortunately, not many people listen to the audio portal just to listen around. Most seem to find a select group of artists they adore and stick with that, or just pop in every once in a while to find a track for their game/film.

I personally think the best way to solve this is not a change to the voting system, but what can be done to draw more people to that voting system so it will balance out properly... be it making it so voting on audio counts for your daily experience deposit, or putting ads up to check out the audio portal that links to the portal mainpage, or something.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-22 19:34:00 Reply

I've got an idea for the next April fools day joke.

Every song on the audio portal get's it's score reset to 0 :P

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2012-12-22 19:43:46 Reply

At 12/22/12 07:34 PM, BrokenDeck wrote: I've got an idea for the next April fools day joke.

Every song on the audio portal get's it's score reset to 0 :P

I foresee a NG civil war if this ever happens... but great idea, Luis might like it...


What comes around goes around...

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2013-07-15 17:55:47 Reply

Necroing this thread because as a new guy here it is very annoying (and it's been like this for a while apparently).

Apparently i don't have the right to complain about it but you guys have to enable the rating only for reviewers or at least make people who put 0, 1 or 2 do reviews so they can say why they hate it and if he says "it's crap" you know it's a dumb guy but at least you know who he is.

I'm fairly new and i don't have many views/dl (and i don't try to have many to be honest i just look for reviews). I got lucky enough to have one guy doing a review and scouting me in my first 2 days here and some other guy doing a review on my new sound design that i posted yesterday.
But i'm still annoyed by the 0s without explanation. Honestly i compensate it with 5 rating myself because it's a dick move too but fuck it really i don't want 2 stars on my stuff when review give me 5 or 4.5, it looks terrible.

But i'd rather have people explaining their rating to me even if less people rate me.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2013-07-16 01:56:30 Reply

I give everyone 5's in my reviews, the 5 means nothing, I give them a separate real vote, though if you read my reviews you should be able to tell the vote you deserve.


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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2013-07-16 03:25:10 Reply

At 7/16/13 01:56 AM, ulfusNG wrote: I give everyone 5's in my reviews, the 5 means nothing, I give them a separate real vote, though if you read my reviews you should be able to tell the vote you deserve.

And why would people do that? That's just a move to look nice to everyone so you have nice reviews yourself and being an ass behind. Why not being legit on the grade in the first place.

Anyways the people who reviewed me did say good things about my stuff so i guess they didn't downvoted me after.

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2013-07-17 12:41:58 Reply

I like the topic review for a review! Fair enough.
But why can not we remove the vote system and just base focus on review votes?!
then we can give people advice and tips on how they can get better at and what was not good at all and so on.

Then they're not 0 bomb without giving a comment why they returns 0. But yes it will certainly many comment from "non grown up people" But then you know the person you can ignore without bothering you.
I think newgrounds should remove vote system completely. Audio portal is the worst, good example non respect there at all.
We force the people to start using the keyboard for typing.


Latest track : Universe Anthem

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Response to Zerovoting and Exposure. 2013-07-18 04:26:58 Reply

At 9/24/12 08:03 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote:
At 9/24/12 07:35 PM, jpbear wrote: Now that this thread is revived ill bring up something that ive brought up a million times before without a proper response from anyone,

whats wrong with a system that alerts mods when someone dishes out 30 or 40 zeroes within a 12 or 24 hour period?
I don't remember what was said about this idea, but I'm pretty sure one of the staff shot it down once before. If you want to suggest it, send a PM to Tom, as a lot of work has been done on the mod tools, he might still be open to suggestions.

Personally, I don't like the idea, because I don't see scores being something people should be getting all gungho over. Score means nothing, the reviews are what matter. I'm one of the people that voted we just remove the numbered vote system entirely.

i gotta add, for a long time i used to breeze over audio tracks that had super low ratings. dunno why, i guess its just an obsession with numbers. but after getting 0bombed alot the numbers lost meaning.

however your rating directly determines your place on the list. It's pretty sucky when there's so much good music at the bottom of the list, as with the top of it. It's hard not to see a problem with that.

but then again music is a subjective thing. maybe the "0bombers" are really country music lovers who want to destroy EDM by discouraging new artists? under the TOA a difference of opinion is totally fine. hell, even the US constitution protects a difference of opinion.

how about how forums work? you post some audio, it goes to the new release list like usual. then theres another list, called the "Recently Engaged" list or something, that automatically updates depending on recently reviewed material. IE, my track gets reviewed, i get to the top of the list, and am gradually bumped down. there should also be a number of reviews next to the track title for those who want to scrutinize at a glance.

i dunno, i feel that system would accurately represent both the big names on NG, as well as the ones who are not-so-big/emerging. i havent suggested this to tom, but it might make for some good food for thought.