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At 6/11/08 08:44 AM, endlessnumber wrote: Does anyone have a good argument against forcing users to review, with a minimum char count, in order to give a score? Maybe also have a separate AP voting power - and you can only get experience by reviewing audio in the AP. If a review is useless and is just for experience, it can be flagged and the reviewer can be banned after repeated infractions. I see no flaw.

The great thing about newgrounds is that the boundaries on freedom of speech is relatively small. Providing that you're not out to abuse other members, you're free to say as much or as little as you want. Putting restrictions, such as a character limit will force people of little musical intellect to come up with a paragraph of drivel, reiterating the statement they only wanted to make; "I liked your song". Some people review songs to show support, and although it may only be one line, they still have the right to show support even though they can't form constructive criticism. Freedom of speech is definitely a positive thing in this case.
I've already mentioned my thoughts on the AP voting power, I think, and although it might work really well for regular voters and encourage more people to vote, it seems to me like the NG staff have commited to the current voting system, and some small tweaks wouldn't be unlikely, this seems like a huge backpedal on the way things are to change the system. I think it'd be easier and probably just as rewarding to make the votes of the audio portal count towards the grounds gold deposits. And the review for experience, that's already been covered too, I think. The effort required to review is much more than to vote. You'd probably end up with stat whores or a group of elitists that can dominate over the AP.
I see lots of flaws in these ideas. But the more ideas we go through, the closer we get to the solution.

At 6/11/08 08:44 AM, endlessnumber wrote: Does anyone have a good argument... against forcing users to review, with a minimum char count, in order to give a score? Maybe also have a separate AP voting power - and you can only get experience by reviewing audio in the AP. If a review is useless and is just for experience, it can be flagged and the reviewer can be banned after repeated infractions. I see no flaw.

Right off the top of my head...

Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V

I suspect that you'll still get plenty of zeroes, the only difference will be that an alt account will be created and four paragraphs of crap will fill up your precious review space.

You'll get a lot of the following reviews:
"hahahahaloooser" SCORE 0
by: myZeroBombAlt
date: June 8, 2008

"blah balh bahla balha bah you suck suck suck you csuck I can copy paste to meet a minimum char count and keep it in a text file on my desktop loooser blah balh bahla balha bah you suck suck suck you csuck I can copy paste to meet a minimum char count and keep it in a text file on my desktop loooser blah balh bahla balha bah you suck suck suck you csuck I can copy paste to meet a minimum char count and keep it in a text file on my desktop loooser blah balh bahla balha bah you suck suck suck you csuck I can copy paste to meet a minimum char count and keep it in a text file on my desktop loooser"
...

Your suggestion won't make it any more difficult for negative reviews or scores - it will only act as a deterrent for people who otherwise may like your track but not enough to craft a well thought out review simply for the right of voting... they just won't vote. (no 0's or 1's also means no 4's or 5's)

The people who want to get moar experience will just copy and paste the above useless review into a thousand peoples tracks... They'll get experience... and the guy that "sort-of liked" your song (but not enough to be bothered to review it) will not...

Wait wait WAIT! you say... but people that part where it says "If a review is useless and is just for experience, it can be flagged and the reviewer can be banned after repeated infractions."

A zero-voter can also copy and paste a seemingly well thought out but very generic review in order to meet a minimum character count and still manage to slink past peoples "Crap Review-O-Meter" not to mention the increase in work load for people that volunteer their personal time to moderate things like that. Honestly, it sounds like much more of a pain in the ass then it's worth.

So then - a quick recap... More effort for high voters, much more effort for the review mods, only slightly more effort for low voters.

Like I said though, this is just off the top of my head... I'm sure that if I gave it some real thought I'd really understand and support your suggestion. heh...

Amend my solution with the execution of all idiots on Newgrounds as well.

At 6/11/08 09:59 AM, endlessnumber wrote: Amend my solution with the execution of all idiots on Newgrounds as well.

Now that might work but I'm afraid I'd be too close to the front of the line.

----------------------------

A few useless words for new(ish) users that are wondering why a score dropped from a 4.whatever to below a 2:

Fact: Everyone that gets any votes at all, gets zero-voted on.

Just think of it as an Audio Portal right of passage. If you haven't been zero-bombed then you can't call yourself a part of this dysfunctional little community.

As long as there's a steady supply of new users, there will be mistakes made in all areas - and as long as there are users at all, there will be a few assholes that think it's funny to do little things that make others upset.

Another thing that happens, I believe, more often than not is that people aren't necessarily voting 0 - they may be voting 1 or 2 but anytime anyone's score drops more than .02 points they cry "ZERO-VOTER!!"

Another possibility for steadily dropping scores is that your "music" might suck a lot more than you are capable of accepting at this point in your "career". There's definitely one user who shall not be named that recently made a "Deys all came an Z3r0 B0mbed mah lifes Wurk" topic who sucks... I read his topic, checked his page and honestly, his scores were right about where I think they should be - somewhere in the 2's... Low? Yes, but what do you expect when you post generic uninspired 20 second loops that sound like they were mastered on wax?

They vote 5 on their own crap, and then they wonder why their scores are going down faster than a BrownsVille tween at a Stryper concert.

Disco, Bitches!!

At 6/11/08 09:32 AM, LJCoffee wrote:

At 6/11/08 08:44 AM, endlessnumber wrote: Does anyone have a good argument... against forcing users to review, with a minimum char count, in order to give a score? Maybe also have a separate AP voting power - and you can only get experience by reviewing audio in the AP. If a review is useless and is just for experience, it can be flagged and the reviewer can be banned after repeated infractions. I see no flaw.

Right off the top of my head...

Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V

I suspect that you'll still get plenty of zeroes, the only difference will be that an alt account will be created and four paragraphs of crap will fill up your precious review space.

You'll get a lot of the following reviews:
"hahahahaloooser" SCORE 0
by: myZeroBombAlt
date: June 8, 2008

"blah balh bahla balha bah you suck suck suck you csuck I can copy paste to meet a minimum char count and keep it in a text file on my desktop loooser blah balh bahla balha bah you suck suck suck you csuck I can copy paste to meet a minimum char count and keep it in a text file on my desktop loooser blah balh bahla balha bah you suck suck suck you csuck I can copy paste to meet a minimum char count and keep it in a text file on my desktop loooser blah balh bahla balha bah you suck suck suck you csuck I can copy paste to meet a minimum char count and keep it in a text file on my desktop loooser"

Until I read this post, I was really behind the idea of the "Review to Vote" system. But LJ has pointed out a lot of flaws that didn't occur to me. It won't work.

But Nithalahk has a pretty good idea himself =].

Are you listening, Rucklo? Make "The Underdog List" and official feature on the NGAP front page! It will be like the "Review Crew Pick", "Underdog Of The Week" and so on in the Flash Portal. And the review crew can be audio users nominated by...audio users!

Discuss.

what if we had sentries posted at the NGAP gates?

good idea!

I think the main problem is that the NG AP never has and probably never will get the amount of attention that the Flash Portal gets - hence why it needs its own set of rules. If Tom wants to devote a day or two a month to the Audio Portal, where the front page is ALL music, that might draw more people in, instead of just a small blurb under flashes and games. it doesnt matter, as my voice will not be heard and the system will probably stay the same..

At 6/11/08 11:27 AM, LJCoffee wrote:

At 6/11/08 09:59 AM, endlessnumber wrote: Amend my solution with the execution of all idiots on Newgrounds as well.

Now that might work but I'm afraid I'd be too close to the front of the line.

In other words there would be barely anyone left in the audio portal :P

----------------------------

A few useless words for new(ish) users that are wondering why a score dropped from a 4.whatever to below a 2:

Fact: Everyone that gets any votes at all, gets zero-voted on.

BUH?!? :p

Just think of it as an Audio Portal right of passage. If you haven't been zero-bombed then you can't call yourself a part of this dysfunctional little community.

ya - damn fivers - nothing stands out like a sore thumb more than a big shiny new five - its like a sitting duck - a fish in a barrel, a tied up teen in a bathroom stal-wait wut..

As long as there's a steady supply of new users, there will be mistakes made in all areas - and as long as there are users at all, there will be a few assholes that think it's funny to do little things that make others upset.

lulz :P - I think we are all guilty of doing things that makes SOMEONE or other upset..

Another thing that happens, I believe, more often than not is that people aren't necessarily voting 0 - they may be voting 1 or 2 but anytime anyone's score drops more than .02 points they cry "ZERO-VOTER!!"

even 3s and 4s will lower your score.

Another possibility for steadily dropping scores is that your "music" might suck a lot more than you are capable of accepting at this point in your "career". There's definitely one user who shall not be named that recently made a "Deys all came an Z3r0 B0mbed mah lifes Wurk" topic who sucks... I read his topic, checked his page and honestly, his scores were right about where I think they should be - somewhere in the 2's... Low? Yes, but what do you expect when you post generic uninspired 20 second loops that sound like they were mastered on wax?

as my brother mentioned - almost everyone in his news post that was bashing him had music that sucked. Seems the only people that really get offended is those that truly arent that good. And mastered on wax - you sir, are a genius at comedy - I love you <3

They vote 5 on their own crap, and then they wonder why their scores are going down faster than a BrownsVille tween at a Stryper concert.

now thats MY kinda humour :P

Disco, Bitches!!

do ze hustle!

I love how everyone always claims "the voting system is flawed!"

the voting system is not flawed - PEOPLE are flawed. If you change the voting system in any way it is just going to make it a huge hassle for regular people and just as easy for those that abuse it - there will always be loopholes. You can not build a better system without taking away some fundamental area of people's free will and freedom of expression and thought.

so here is my short summary of how I would like to see things go down.

1) if you do not have an account on newgrounds - you should NOT be allowed to vote. It doesnt take long to make an account, but this is rather negligable.

2) give the audio musicians exp. points when they vote on audio. Personally I think a blam/protect system would not be wise here because, unlike the flash portal, the audio portal is full of people that will gang up on a user to bring them down. I would forecast a lot of quality songs getting hurt in the process, especially if a mod also has a grudge..

3) revert it to one review a song - thats it - and if not that - maybe one review on said song a week, or month - to deter mass voting, both 5s and zeros. - actually, no, scrap that idea - it would just involve mass voting on a specific day instead of every day - and noone likes that either - so ya - revert it back to the old system - the amt of rates on songs it getting so massive that its becoming hard for songs to survive nemore - at least in the old days everything had a rather low voting score and thus could go up and down easier.

4) give the audio portal AWARDS. Review crew pick of the week, daily 1st, weekly first, monthly first - turd of the week - all the awards the flash portal basically has. The concept of some 13 year old using your song in his sonic flash isn't good incentive to cater to the flash portal nemore. While yes the comtests and putting songs in actually released games is great incentive, those opportunities are far and few between. The audio portal needs a carrot dangling in front of its face - it needs something to strive for on a regular basis. Currently all it has is the top 30 - and that leads to mass hysteria every tuesday night, as well as the weekly five - which leads to mass hysteria from new submission users on tuesday night..

5) a PROPER audio portal batting average - I know audio portal musicians seem to have some sort of fixed batting average, or so im told..

6) the SAME option the flash portal has for collaborations - an area where you can enter a users' name and they will pop up on your song page under your name. People have been complaining about this for YEARS now.

7) re-instate some sort of stolen submission button! Do you have any idea how much of a hassle it is to try and remember every stolen submission on newgrounds - and then either post it in a thread, or make a news post about it - when all of this could be done in the background, like the old days, with a moderator or admin to be responsible for deleting these songs? I know you've said those powers for mods are coming soon, but really, I think they really need them NOW.

8) If a user is proven to have ALL their songs stolen, or actually REQUESTS to have their account deleted - delete their account! I know some people on this site who have been signed to record labels have tried to get their accounts removed after, because they can no longer delete their songs for some reason or other, and since denied, they can't make money off their own music. That or at least find some way around the "uh oh that song has been used in a flash, or has gone over the stat limit and can no longer be deleted"

9) in reference to the above, I want to be able to edit or delete every single one of my songs if I so choose to - If i make a mistake uploading an icon - I want to be able to change that as well! Half of my songs I can't do anything for - because theyre so OLD that they are no longer editable.

10) the oh-so popular have the "new review" buttons reflect accurately the amount of UNRESPONDED reviews the song has - regardless of the day - and then NOT display it has those new reviews once you respond to them - I do believe this is a hassle for many people with more than say.. 10 songs, who dont check their reviews every single bloody day..

11) have some sort of audio hall of fame - too many users on this site fade away in obscurity after years of contribution. Its like saying "thanks for all the songs you submitted, but in order for anyone to care, you have to submit songs for the rest of your life" - I mean, the flash portal has links that relate to series, and users, and flash genre types, so that theyre never forgotten - so why can't the audio portal have something similar?

12) The audio forum needs another FORUM mod. And I know I am going to regret requesting this as it will most likely mean another regular stamping his new mod foot on my face, but when rucklo is gone - there is NOONE HERE to police this place. There is no dedicated mod like denvish was when he controlled this place - rucklo does what he can - but rucklo is not HERE all the time.

13) dedicated audio mods for EACH GENRE. I am sure there are mods that are ambiant submitters that listen to lets say, dnb and think "i hate dnb its shit, this is dnb - it sounds like shit - im gonna ban him" - or something similar along those lines. I dont believe that having generic audio mods to polics every single genre of newgrounds is a good idea personally.

that and most of them are lazy sobs that never clear the list neways :P

14) have a sticky with the link to suggestions people have for improvements to this site in the sticky.

thats it for now.

I agree with almost all of that chronomut. Lets hope someone actually takes those ideas into consideration

Well what I've realized, is that you shouldn't give a damn about the scores. At least if you're happy about the song yourself.
Of course it sucks that ppl are voting zero on a song by an unknown artist. Almost no song except if it's a spammy one deserves that.
To begin with that can feel very discouraging, but if you keep it up then you might get better and also make friends that then will vote fairly.
Also sometimes ppl can vote your song down to like 1, and still it can have 4 downloads, without any of the downloaders voting on it.
Bottom line is that the scores shouldn't be taken too seriously imo, improvement is all that matters.

At 6/11/08 12:39 PM, Chronamut wrote: even 3s and 4s will lower your score.

I've never understood why only 5's would increase it. I know this sounds like teh n00b pr0paganda but maybe have 3,4 and 5 increase your score and 0, 1 and 2 decrease it and 0 would have the same power as a 5 but obviously, have the completely opposite effect and just so it's fair. Decrease the power of 0's and 5's.

At 6/11/08 12:39 PM, Chronamut wrote: 13) dedicated audio mods for EACH GENRE. I am sure there are mods that are ambiant submitters that listen to lets say, dnb and think "i hate dnb its shit, this is dnb - it sounds like shit - im gonna ban him" - or something similar along those lines. I dont believe that having generic audio mods to polics every single genre of newgrounds is a good idea personally.

Do you seriously think that any mod is that much of an asshole? I mean sure, if it's complete and utter shit, you know white noise and audio files made by typing gibberish into Speakonia and exporting, that's a reason for ban, but I doubt any audio mods would even think of banning an artist because they don't personally like the genre.

I find it an interesting idea though: you, for example, will probably know better than anyone else what is a midi rip and what's not, while there are other people on this site who will know very well whether that vocal clip or bass line is stolen, original or a royalty-free sample- that is the only reason why I find it a somewhat decent idea.

On another (slightly more related) note, props to Rucklo for making it possible to redirect all the "wah I got 0'd" threads somewhere else so it can be forgotten... eh

At 6/11/08 03:12 PM, SBB wrote: On another (slightly more related) note, props to Rucklo for making it possible to redirect all the "wah I got 0'd" threads somewhere else so it can be forgotten... eh

hurr hurr, that's exactly what it's about. and then, when somone actually whines here, they'll get banned (since they most likley managed not to read the whole first post) and my banlist will grow humongous aahahhahaahahha.

and on a serious note, for those who don't use the audio adv. thread the right way (finding new and awesome music) yeah, it too DOES serve as a dump to keep the forum clean from adv. threads.

thread-dumps r00lz.

And for you who have good ideas about systems etc... thery're all ideas that probably could be thought through and so on, but i honestly see no point in elaborating them too deep. it's still a flash-site. my guess is that small changes could be made, when time is right, but for something major, well i can't see why the staff would rush to do that when there are shitload of improvements of the flashportal and the site overall (lulz, where's the chatroom, PG?) to be made.

you can always dream though, but please try to stay on topic with thisone.

and always

REMEMBER
REMEMBER
REMEMBER
REMEMBER
REMEMBER
REMEMBER

PG finished the chat room MONTHS ago - its all been on wades shoulders to implement it.

*sigh*

I followed the advice I got from my thread - and this is what I got. I even gave it a 1 - not a zero.

Score: 1
"ugh."
submission: Guitar Gurgu
date: June 10, 2008
Alright - man this is horrible - it sounds like you took a midi and applied slayer, and fl studio presets to it. Stuff like this is NOT welcome in vg. Please learn to make better songs.

-reaper-

1 hour ago
Author's Response:
wow your name says it all, so, wheres the songs YOU'VE made? It seems you dont have any, dont say its horrible until you've tried, and then you can talk.

its a paradox! If I HAD submissions that man would have just gone to them and zeroed the crap out of them in anger. I know how to make songs. I know musical theory and what sounds good and what sounds bad, and if it wasnt for me - most of the people on the top 30 WOULDNT BE on the top 30, theyd be buried under a massive pile of crap - but thats another discussion we've gone thru entirely.

If I keep getting retarded responses to reviews I'm going to just stop reviewing. You can ban me if you want or whatever, I don't care - it doesnt stop me from doing what I do. So, w/e.. perhaps if i actually told them WHAT to improve, but for that song, it would actually involve telling him HOW to make a song PERIOD..

At 6/11/08 07:06 PM, reaper-of-ratings wrote: *sigh*

I followed the advice I got from my thread - and this is what I got. I even gave it a 1 - not a zero.

Score: 1
"ugh."
submission: Guitar Gurgu
date: June 10, 2008
Alright - man this is horrible - it sounds like you took a midi and applied slayer, and fl studio presets to it. Stuff like this is NOT welcome in vg. Please learn to make better songs.

-reaper-

1 hour ago
Author's Response:
wow your name says it all, so, wheres the songs YOU'VE made? It seems you dont have any, dont say its horrible until you've tried, and then you can talk.

its a paradox! If I HAD submissions that man would have just gone to them and zeroed the crap out of them in anger. I know how to make songs. I know musical theory and what sounds good and what sounds bad, and if it wasnt for me - most of the people on the top 30 WOULDNT BE on the top 30, theyd be buried under a massive pile of crap - but thats another discussion we've gone thru entirely.

If I keep getting retarded responses to reviews I'm going to just stop reviewing. You can ban me if you want or whatever, I don't care - it doesnt stop me from doing what I do. So, w/e.. perhaps if i actually told them WHAT to improve, but for that song, it would actually involve telling him HOW to make a song PERIOD..

Slink quietly doin what you do, tell no one. That way, there is no ban to be had. Your brother was right. The system is not flawed. People are flawed. And for the most part whinning little pussies.

I dislike reading that response a great deal. I've seen it a 1000 times. You have to make audio, to know whether you like something or not? Bullshit. Grow some Gnads people. (Bonus for chron :P)

ANyways yeah. I think I contributed in a positive non bannable way here. Plz don't ban me Rucklo. haha.

At 6/11/08 07:06 PM, reaper-of-ratings wrote: *sigh*

I followed the advice I got from my thread - and this is what I got. I even gave it a 1 - not a zero.

Score: 1
"ugh."
submission: Guitar Gurgu
date: June 10, 2008
Alright - man this is horrible - it sounds like you took a midi and applied slayer, and fl studio presets to it. Stuff like this is NOT welcome in vg. Please learn to make better songs.

-reaper-

1 hour ago
Author's Response:
wow your name says it all, so, wheres the songs YOU'VE made? It seems you dont have any, dont say its horrible until you've tried, and then you can talk.

its a paradox! If I HAD submissions that man would have just gone to them and zeroed the crap out of them in anger. I know how to make songs. I know musical theory and what sounds good and what sounds bad, and if it wasnt for me - most of the people on the top 30 WOULDNT BE on the top 30, theyd be buried under a massive pile of crap - but thats another discussion we've gone thru entirely.

If I keep getting retarded responses to reviews I'm going to just stop reviewing. You can ban me if you want or whatever, I don't care - it doesnt stop me from doing what I do. So, w/e.. perhaps if i actually told them WHAT to improve, but for that song, it would actually involve telling him HOW to make a song PERIOD..

The only reason you're getting retarded responses is because you're going right to the point and people don't like honesty. Hell, it's natural for anyone to react when they have been proven wrong. If you say to someone "This absolutely sucks, please learn how to make a better song" you're crunching down on people's ego's and of course, they're going to go apeshit and attack you right back. I'm not saying what you do is wrong, hell, sometimes people need to be abused just to snap them out of it but like, maybe it's time you start giving explaining how to make the song better. Find your inner charity.

Ok, an idea that could be used not only on the Audio Portal but also on the Flash Portal is to only let an IP vote five or zero once per day. Why? This would prevent the only zero or five voters that have now led to the odd voting we have today (many, many blogs about this, mostly the top five of the week are always on the top fivety until next week comes, repeat) and would force people to be more critical (does this deserve five compared to this instead of five here, five there voting).

At 6/11/08 07:53 PM, Epicness wrote: Ok, an idea that could be used not only on the Audio Portal but also on the Flash Portal is to only let an IP vote five or zero once per day. Why? This would prevent the only zero or five voters that have now led to the odd voting we have today (many, many blogs about this, mostly the top five of the week are always on the top fivety until next week comes, repeat) and would force people to be more critical (does this deserve five compared to this instead of five here, five there voting).

why not just just rid the 0,1,2,3,4,5 and make it "didnt like", "like", or "ok" and then have a bar graph for each showing the stats of all?

or even better, rid all voting and make the AP one big Charlie Foxtrot.

why dont we just get rid of the audio portal along those lines? Or just have one big chart? Come onnnn Housemasta - we all know its the people that suck not the system.

I also reviewed that guy's song - giving him a little more of a breakdown as to why it sucked.

Or you can just start banning every IP that votes 0 more than 5 times or so daily

At 6/11/08 08:14 PM, DragonsGrief wrote: Or you can just start banning every IP that votes 0 more than 5 times or so daily

there wouldnt be anyone left on newgrounds if you did that.

At 6/11/08 02:48 PM, LiquidEvolution wrote:

At 6/11/08 12:39 PM, Chronamut wrote: even 3s and 4s will lower your score.

I've never understood why only 5's would increase it. I know this sounds like teh n00b pr0paganda but maybe have 3,4 and 5 increase your score and 0, 1 and 2 decrease it and 0 would have the same power as a 5 but obviously, have the completely opposite effect and just so it's fair. Decrease the power of 0's and 5's.

That's not how it works.
If your score is greater than 4, the averages say that a vote of 4 or below will lower your score. If you have a score of, lets say, less than 3 (lolz), all votes of 3 and above will raise the score because of averages.

Well I read most of the stuff (Skimmed through some of the longer posts). I'm not sure if it has been brought up yet but... I recently added a flash artist to my favorite artist(s) list and I saw I had an e-mail to my delight it was telling me "Your favorite flash artist ________ has submitted a new flash! ________" .

Now I've added a fair amount of audio artists and it seems we do not have the glory of sending an e-mail out to everyone who likes us. We simply have to pass it to our friends. I'm sure this has a large effect on the flash artists votes because the # of fans a good audio artist has will most likely out number the ones who don't.

I admit I rarely notice the front page audio submissions and I'm sure I am not the only one who does this also. They are not in my plain sight when I open this website. All I see are the Flash and Game submissions. I'm sure though it might not make that much of a difference if the Audio was put in between the front pages Flash and Games submissions could be a worthy test though.

Now Chrom has some great ideas but it sounds like a whole new website would be needed to implement all these things. Newgrounds is a flash site always has been and probably will always be that way. I'm just happy that Newgrounds even has an audio portal because me as a musician I have no talent in the ways of Flash.

As much as it bothers me to see my song go down without an explanation I'll accept it. Self voting is a blessing and a curse.

Every time I see a "zero-thread" I usually look at their songs and responses. 99% of the time the user clearly needs to work on their musical skills and do some sharpening. Often or not the people who agree with them are low post count users who are not really part of the community (yet) and also are bothered by the common issue at hand.

Fact is no one will be happy with whats given to them. I'll admit I complain from time to time but it only makes me strive to be even better. I feel if we make minor improvements that don't dramatically change the system we can make a few more people happy.

A little off topic but more of something I've noticed in the Audio Portal. The Audio Portal has a very unique thing going.... Songs on Newrounds have developed their very own style. This being in part that most artists hear aren't looking to get signed. I have heard some very unique songs that I can't say I've heard anywhere else. Thats one reason I enjoy the audio portal and why I hope it doesn't change too much to be "professional".

At 6/11/08 08:18 PM, Chronamut wrote:

At 6/11/08 08:14 PM, DragonsGrief wrote: Or you can just start banning every IP that votes 0 more than 5 times or so daily

there wouldnt be anyone left on newgrounds if you did that.

You 0 vote 5 songs every day?

Shame on you.

At 6/11/08 08:14 PM, DragonsGrief wrote: Or you can just start banning every IP that votes 0 more than 5 times or so daily

Why not ban every IP that votes 5 more than 5 times a day? You know, for being too generous.
What's the point of having a 0-5 option if you're going to say "oh no, if you vote 0 too much you must be mean". People. Have. The. Right. To. Vote. What. They. Like!

i told you all befoer - I have a yes or no votign system - yes = 5, no = 0 - and yes there are songs I dont like so naturally I give them a no.

and getting an email when your favourite musician has submitted a new song is a great idea! I think its been brought up before in the past but its still a great idea..

At 6/11/08 09:01 PM, WritersBlock wrote:

At 6/11/08 08:14 PM, DragonsGrief wrote: Or you can just start banning every IP that votes 0 more than 5 times or so daily

Why not ban every IP that votes 5 more than 5 times a day? You know, for being too generous.
What's the point of having a 0-5 option if you're going to say "oh no, if you vote 0 too much you must be mean". People. Have. The. Right. To. Vote. What. They. Like!

Then you can't make 20 topics a week complaining about 0 voters. Nor can you make huge text wall arguments over what the right choice is.

no instead you bitch for pages at a time about how "unfair" the voting system is when noone is ever going to change it.