Christians 'told not to preach'

[ThePretenders]

Two Christians claim a police community support officer told them to stop leafleting in an area of east Birmingham where many Muslims live.

The Christian Institute has complained to West Midlands Police the men were told to leave Alum Rock Road.

The US Christians said they were advised they were committing a hate crime by trying to convert Muslims.

West Midlands Police has investigated the complaint and said the officer intervened to defuse a row.

Arthur Cunningham and Joseph Abraham, a pastor at Grace Bible Fellowship Church, in Saltley, Birmingham, had been distributing leaflets in nearby Alum Rock on 19 February when the police support officer (PCSO) intervened.

Apology demanded

They claimed he warned them to leave the area, saying: "If you come back here and get beat up, well you have been warned."

Mr Cunningham and Mr Abraham then agreed to leave.

The men, backed by the Christian Institute, have complained to the force, saying their human rights were infringed.

They have also demanded an apology and damages.

A West Midlands Police spokeswoman said the complaint had been investigated by the force.

She said: "The investigation concluded that the PCSO acted with the best of intentions when he intervened to diffuse a heated argument between two groups of men."

The spokeswoman added that following the investigation the PCSO had been offered "guidance around what constitutes a hate crime as well as his communication style".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_
midlands/7430085.stm
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We live in a country where we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. No matter how absurd the views may be to some people, they have the right to express their opinion but by going into an area, knocking on people's doors, knowing that they probably won't convert (especially with the strong faith of Muslims) and pissing off people is asking for trouble but I wouldn't call it a 'hate crime'.

I wouldn't want them there any more than I would want somebody that wants to sell loans. They need to get the message that they need to fuck off when they are not wanted. I don't see Muslims knocking on doors and ask people whether they are saved or not, or condemning people to hell. Muslims stand at a table with books and stuff and will answer questions if you ask.

Just keep your damn convictions to your self or rent a table and spread your word there.

[Korriken]

wow, the UK's rampant PC problem gets worse all the time. "don't you do anything that might even come close to being almost interpreted as nearly offensive to anyone in this world, whether or not their opinion is valid!"

Remember kids, angering non whites and non Christians is a hate crime. don't commit hate crimes!

[Jaketheclonetrooper]

Actually I believe that everyone has the right to preach about their religion beliefs but if it reaches the point where it annoys/angers many people then they shouldn't be allowed.

What they should do is let some atheists preach outside their church. If they call the cops then they should say their rights were infringed.

[bcdemon]

At 6/6/08 07:16 AM, ThePretenders wrote: They have also demanded....damages.

BINGO, the all might dollar. These idiots want to get "paid" because they were told not to move along?

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

This sort of shit is actually quite common in Birmingham in my experience. Though it does go both ways, I've seen muslims trying to gather petitions in town etc get over excited and start spewing shit told to fuck off by PCSO's and the like.

Only thing of any real importance here is that the PCSO doesn't exactly grasp what a hate crime is. And that's hardly news worthy cosndiering they get an entire 7 weeks worth of training before being put onto the beat!

[Memorize]

At 6/6/08 07:55 AM, Jaketheclonetrooper wrote: Actually I believe that everyone has the right to preach about their religion beliefs but if it reaches the point where it annoys/angers many people then they shouldn't be allowed.

What they should do is let some atheists preach outside their church. If they call the cops then they should say their rights were infringed.

Wow.

That didn't sound like a biased double standard in the slightest!

Get real. This is why i'm glad that here in the States, the founding fathers had enough damn sense to allow for freedom of religion and expression.

Also, there's one very big difference between the Religious passing out leaflets and atheists standing outside a church specifically to turn people away.

The difference is that the religious people typically do and pass out leaflets specifically to HELP people, whereas a bunch of atheists standing outside a church would typically be doing it to be disrespectful just for the sake of being a bunch of underdeveloped ass monkeys.

[Drakim]

At 6/6/08 02:12 PM, Memorize wrote:
Wow.

That didn't sound like a biased double standard in the slightest!

Get real. This is why i'm glad that here in the States, the founding fathers had enough damn sense to allow for freedom of religion and expression.

Also, there's one very big difference between the Religious passing out leaflets and atheists standing outside a church specifically to turn people away.

The difference is that the religious people typically do and pass out leaflets specifically to HELP people, whereas a bunch of atheists standing outside a church would typically be doing it to be disrespectful just for the sake of being a bunch of underdeveloped ass monkeys.

You sure showed him with your lack of double standards Mez!

Because we all know atheists are just atheist to be asses, while all Christians just wants to help if you will let them into your hearts, and would never be an asshole by harassing people on a regular basis.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 6/6/08 02:12 PM, Memorize wrote:

The difference is that the religious people typically do and pass out leaflets specifically to HELP people, whereas a bunch of atheists standing outside a church would typically be doing it to be disrespectful just for the sake of being a bunch of underdeveloped ass monkeys.

Sorry but there really is no difference in respect to the law, freedom of speech is not discriminatory to right and wrong because right and wrong opinions, once perscribed by law officials, destroy freedom of speech in all forms.

[SolInvictus]

if they've gone there repeatedley and have been asked by residents they didn't wish to have them come by then i can see where a harrasement case can be built but a hate crime?

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

At 6/6/08 05:38 PM, SolInvictus wrote: if they've gone there repeatedley and have been asked by residents they didn't wish to have them come by then i can see where a harrasement case can be built but a hate crime?

Arguably it could be said that they were singling out the inhabitants of the area as they are muslim, and any form of crime based on either racial or religious grounds is technically a hate crime, so I can see where you MIGHT be able to make a case but it aint a strong one.

[LazyDrunk]

Cops are out to write tickets and pick their asses while cities rot from the inside out.

[ngmastah]

If the Muslims don't want to be converted, then don't let them preach, it's that fucking easy.

[maxc16]

Thats why the white people are moving away... there's too many muslims!!

muslims = trouble. Think about it, every fucked up country in the world is muslim. Nearly All terrorist attacks were by muslims. 9/11 was by muslims. Cronulla riots was because of muslims.

[LordJaric]

At 6/6/08 06:22 PM, maxc16 wrote: muslims = trouble.

stereotypical remark = stereotypical asshole

[ImaSmartass2]

I give them one chance to pass shit around the neighborhood, one chance, if they come back I'm calling the cops simple as that. I also believe that sort of public preaching goes under "distribing of the peace". They don't really need to express their message more than once, after one time it gets relatively annoying.

Another thing is preaching in strictly religious areas that don't belong to the religion you are preaching. That is just being an ass of yourself.

[ImaSmartass2]

At 6/6/08 06:22 PM, maxc16 wrote: Thats why the white people are moving away... there's too many muslims!!

muslims = trouble. Think about it, every fucked up country in the world is muslim. Nearly All terrorist attacks were by muslims. 9/11 was by muslims. Cronulla riots was because of muslims.

Oh goodie, the new-age Holocaust is coming yipee. Not to mention that the Americans that founded our country are terrorists, (from Britians point of view), I am talking about the American revolution, those whho rebelled against Britain were terrorists in Britain's view. It

Can we put them into camps now?

[Jaketheclonetrooper]

At 6/6/08 02:12 PM, Memorize wrote:

Wow.

That didn't sound like a biased double standard in the slightest!

Get real. This is why i'm glad that here in the States, the founding fathers had enough damn sense to allow for freedom of religion and expression.

Also, there's one very big difference between the Religious passing out leaflets and atheists standing outside a church specifically to turn people away.

The difference is that the religious people typically do and pass out leaflets specifically to HELP people, whereas a bunch of atheists standing outside a church would typically be doing it to be disrespectful just for the sake of being a bunch of underdeveloped ass monkeys.

Wow! Your statement didn't sound like a double standard either! Religious people actually WANT to help and not earn money! All atheists are assholes and are always disrespectful!!!1!1 I get it now!!!!!

Hypocrite

[MrFlopz]

I don't see why so many people convert to a religion that calls for you to repent for the sin of being alive and condemns all humans as evil filth deserving of eternal suffering. Its a disgusting religion if you think about it.

[SadisticMonkey]

At 6/6/08 02:12 PM, Memorize wrote: Wow.
That didn't sound like a biased double standard in the slightest!

And then...

The difference is that the religious people typically do and pass out leaflets specifically to HELP people, whereas a bunch of atheists standing outside a church would typically be doing it to be disrespectful just for the sake of being a bunch of underdeveloped ass monkeys.

Lol, it's a damn good thing you aren't being biased as well.

[dySWN]

Hey SadisticMonkey, I know it's off-topic, but your sig is making me do a double-take over here.

[Earfetish]

That's one of the problems with the UK. We need to get freedom of speech and freedom of religion (and freedom of the press) on a piece of paper somewhere, like the Yanks. Because the Government seems to hate these freedoms, and multiculturalism seems to be straining them.

[Earfetish]

That's one of the problems with the UK. We need to get freedom of speech and freedom of religion (and freedom of the press) on a piece of paper somewhere, like the Yanks. Because the Government seems to hate these freedoms, and multiculturalism seems to be straining them.

[bcdemon]

At 6/6/08 02:12 PM, Memorize wrote: Also, there's one very big difference between the Religious passing out leaflets and atheists standing outside a church specifically to turn people away.

Money, that's the difference. Religious people pass out leaflets so you join the church and give them your dollars. The atheists outside the church don't need your money.

[homor]

popey don't preach.

i'm in posey.

*rimshot*

[ThePretenders]

At 6/6/08 10:59 PM, AdairTishler wrote:

At 6/6/08 07:16 AM, ThePretenders wrote: Just keep your damn convictions to your self or rent a table and spread your word there.

I only support the freedom of speech when it does not offend me too.

Oh, like coming to people's door on private property constitutes freedom of speech.

[Slizor]

One of the problems with freedom of the press is it means that crap newspapers can repeatedly harp on about "political correctness" to the point where its seen as a mainstream issue. Actually read the article here;
The first line is reporting a claim (that they were told to leave) made by the Christians
It also states that it was by a Police Community Support Officer (who are generally quite inexperienced)
It then says that there was a row occuring, not that they were just told to leave for no reason
It later says that the Christians want an apology and (more importantly) damages. Damages for having to leave an area?!
And it lastly says that "The spokeswoman added that following the investigation the PCSO had been offered "guidance around what constitutes a hate crime as well as his communication style"." Which means that the Police force (and the British state) do not consider distributing Christian leaflets in an Muslim area to be a hate crime, but do think that it's probably not advisable.

Jesus fucking wept.

[PsychoIfrit]

At 6/6/08 06:22 PM, maxc16 wrote: Thats why the white people are moving away... there's too many muslims!!

muslims = trouble. Think about it, every fucked up country in the world is muslim. Nearly All terrorist attacks were by muslims. 9/11 was by muslims. Cronulla riots was because of muslims.

you evil racist i hope you get banned for this comment and a lot of fucked up countries are not muslim not all that many terrorists are muslim after all the United States goverment is no stranger to the tactics of terrorisim

[Achilles2]

At 6/6/08 07:46 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: If Muslims wandered a white Middle Class Protestant area preaching the Qur'an door to door they'd probably interned under the Prevention of Terrorism Act.

And that's why extreme PC laws and xeonphobia fail. They are just two parts of a grand unit called "Division".

[morefngdbs]

We have a case in Canada where Muslim's have charged an author & Macleans Magazine with a hate crime in a published article. they have been taken to a human rights tribunal... WTF ...instead of a court of Law.
They (MacCleans & the Author)are hoping to lose the case & that way they can get it heard in a Supreme Court.
Freedoms all over hte World are being threatened by Muslims using our Liberal systems against us, so they can gain an upper hand & totally outlaw freedoms such as freedom of speech.

More importantly they want to stop the 'truth' about their actions & the actions of their religious belief's & Leaders from any outside scrutiny what-so-ever.

[ThePretenders]

At 6/7/08 08:59 AM, Slizor wrote: One of the problems with freedom of the press is it means that crap newspapers can repeatedly harp on about "political correctness" to the point where its seen as a mainstream issue.

I don't see why people are getting streessed by political correctness. The crap doesn't even affect them. I don't why the British Government should be seen as 'PC'. Do they have administrative control over the police, judiciary, local councils, universities? No, instead of huffing and puffing over the 'issue', they should protest or do something useful.

The British Government 'PC'? Yeah right....