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Forum Topic: Gun Control.

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This topic is 9 pages long. [ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 ]

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mindlessdestruction2 DARK LEVEL 05

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At 6/6/08 07:47 AM, shaun2008 wrote: people in texas have sex with their hands alot
i met a texas guy once and he had a bruise on his hand where he had been doing it so much that he had actually bruised himself like gosh!
Ninjas use spears and knifes so i do not need control on my guns although they are quiet big

yeah, um... why dont you STICK TO THE FRIGGIN TOPIC!!!

"Don't be a schmuck" -Michael Savage
MINDLESS DESTRUCTION-
causing destruction, death, and setting things on fire since '93

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l3urntFaceMan

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Posted at: 6/7/08 02:18 AM

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At 6/6/08 12:43 AM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:
If you wish for me to back up my claims I will be more than happy to do so.
Or maybe nobody could have a gun and the death toll would be zero.

That is a common misconception. Using the UK, since gun bans stabbing deaths have increased dramatically. People will find a way to kill other people. Guns make it easier, yes, but they also allow for people who would normally be helpless to defend themselves.

Example: A woman is walking to her car in an empty parking lot after getting off work late and is approached by a man who threatens her. Without a gun her options are fight or turn her back and try to get to her car. If she fights the man, he will 1) likely be stronger than her 2) likely have some sort of weapon. Her odds of winning this are slim to none. If she turns her back and runs for the car she will 1) have given her attacker a perfect opportunity to disable her 2) likely not make it because she will need to unlock, open, close and lock the door. With a gun she is then able to warn the man to leave her alone and then enforce that request if he approaches her.

Guns aren't just for hillbillys and idiots or something. All those who are trained, comfortable and aware should be able to carry. You hopefully will never need to use your firearm but if the time comes there probably won't be a policeman or someone else to save you.


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ByronicHero

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Posted at: 6/7/08 03:43 AM

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I personally believe that every person and/or household should be obligated to own at least one firearm and that any gun restrictions should be revoked.

Ayn Rand was a cunt.


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slowerthenb4

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Posted at: 6/7/08 04:57 AM

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Title I: State Firearms Control Assistance: Purpose
Sec. 101. The Congress hereby declares that the purpose of this title is to provide support to federal, state, and local law enforcement official in their fight against crime and violence, and it is not the purpose of this title to place any undue or unnecessary federal restrictions or burdens on law abiding citizens with respect to the acquisition, possession, or use of firearms appropriate to the purpose of hunting trapshooting target shooting personal protection or any other lawful activity and that this title is not intended to discourage or eliminate the private ownership or use of firearms by law abiding citizens for lawful purpose or provide for the imposition by federal regulations of any procedure or requirements other then those necessary to impliment and effectuate the provisions of this title.

(Editors) Note
On September 13, 1994, congress passed the violent crime control and law enforcement act of 1994, public law 103-322 title IX, sub A, section 110105 of this act generally made it unlawful to manufacture, transfer and possess semiautomatic assault weapons (SAWs) and to transfer and possess large capacity ammunition feeding devices (LCAFDs). The law also required importers and manufacturers to place certain markings on SAWs and LCAFDs designating they were for export or law enforcement/ government use. Significantly, the law provided that it would expire 10years from the date of enactment. Accordingly, effective 12:01 a.m. on Sep 13,2004 the provisions of the law ceased to apply, these provisions are marked "repealed" in this publication.

(O7) Does the expiration of the SAW ban and the LCAFD ban affect Importation?
LCAFDs are no longer prohibited from importation but they are still subject to the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act. An approved form 6 import permit is still required.
Non-sporting firearms are still prohibited from importation under section 922(I) and 925(d)(3) of the GCA. Because the vast majority of SAWs are nonsporting, they generally cannot be imported
Temporary importation of SAWs and LCAFDs is now lawful under the provisions of 27 CFR section 478.115(d) because firearms that are temporarily imported are not required to meet sporting purpose requirements.

(O6) Are SAWs and LCAFDs marked"restricted law enforcement /government use only" or "for export only" now legal to sell to civilians in the United States?
Yes. Saws and LCAFDs are no longer prohibited. Therefor firearms with restrictive markings are legal to transfer to civilians in the (US) and it is legal to possess them. All civilians may possess LCAFDs.

What are the restrictions on firearms possession?
Any person who has a conviction for any misdemeanor listed in Penal Code section 12021(c)(1) or for any felony, or is addicted to the use of any narcotic drug, or has been held involuntarily as a danger to self or others pursuant to Welfare and Institutions Code Section 8103 is prohibited from buying, owning, or possessing firearms. Various other prohibitions exist for mental conditions, domestic restraining/protective orders, conditions of probation, and offenses committed as a juvenile.
PC Sections 12021 and 12021.1, Welfare and Institutions Code Sections 8100 - 8103)

here are the facts. . .

Gun Control.


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SmilezRoyale

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Posted at: 6/7/08 10:30 AM

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At 6/6/08 09:17 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote: TheMason, with the way people are today, I don't trust them with cars either.

I never said I wanted to ban guns altogether, read the first post.

Show me an article honestly saying that a Glock is more dangerous than an assault rifle.

If the government decided to clamp down on us, no amount of civilian weaponry can stop them, unless there is some magical group of weapons that can defend against artillery, tanks, planes, bombs, missiles, and several hundred thousand well-trained troops.

1) An assault rifle might have more potential for destruction for the same reason a nuclear bomb has more potential than a grenade, the thing is, assault rifles are impractical for the purpose of committing crime, and so few of them ARE used in homicides.

This is how debate works; 1) Present Facts 2) Use logic to Interpret the facts 3) Then make conclusions.


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KingAdamTheGreat

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Posted at: 6/7/08 11:44 AM

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are you saying we should be limited on how many guns a person can own?


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SmilezRoyale

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Posted at: 6/7/08 01:27 PM

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At 6/7/08 11:44 AM, KingAdamTheGreat wrote: are you saying we should be limited on how many guns a person can own?

if you think about it, it doesn't matter...

A law abiding citizen who has no homicidal tendencies is as dangerous with 1 gun as he is with 2, or 3, or four. Likewise, somone WITH homicidal tendencies shouldn't have any guns to begin with, [let alone be kept from being monitored]

This is how debate works; 1) Present Facts 2) Use logic to Interpret the facts 3) Then make conclusions.


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GrammerNaziElite

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Posted at: 6/7/08 01:32 PM

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A law abiding citizen who has no homicidal tendencies is as dangerous with 1 gun as he is with 2, or 3, or four. Likewise, somone WITH homicidal tendencies shouldn't have any guns to begin with, [let alone be kept from being monitored]

For CHRIST SAKE.

All I'm asking is that we have more test determining the sanity of who we're selling guns too. There are some places where you can just pick them up and leave. Total guns bans aren't practical until America fully modernizes.


Dante-Son-Of-Sparda EVIL LEVEL 22

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At 6/7/08 01:32 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:

:Total guns bans aren't practical until America fully modernizes.

and it wont because it violates the constitutional 2 Amendment.

CELLARDOOR6 FOR NG MODERATOR!!
McCain FOR PRESIDENT OF 08!!

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GrammerNaziElite

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Posted at: 6/7/08 02:01 PM

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and it wont because it violates the constitutional 2 Amendment.

Times have changed. the spirit of the Constitution is admirable, but in 50 or so years it will be mostly obsolete.


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SmilezRoyale

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At 6/7/08 02:01 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:
and it wont because it violates the constitutional 2 Amendment.
Times have changed. the spirit of the Constitution is admirable, but in 50 or so years it will be mostly obsolete.

So has the first amendment.

This is how debate works; 1) Present Facts 2) Use logic to Interpret the facts 3) Then make conclusions.


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LazyDrunk

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Posted at: 6/7/08 02:54 PM

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At 6/7/08 02:01 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:
and it wont because it violates the constitutional 2 Amendment.
Times have changed. the spirit of the Constitution is admirable, but in 50 or so years it will be mostly obsolete.

Five years after that happens, those who instigated the fragmentation of the bill of rights are going to wish they hadn't treaded where they had.

Know me broken by my master.

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thedo12

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Posted at: 6/7/08 03:00 PM

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one thing about owning guns is that there invaluable in school shootings(lol) attacking the student populous with something like a knife would almost be impossible.

the u.s. needs to find a better way to keep guns from minors.


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Davidzx

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Posted at: 6/7/08 03:09 PM

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I would agree, men have a thing for guns always.

theres never a dull moment when im holding onto my P36.

and theres nothin wrong with bringing my guns to school......

"gasp"

lol

The very first Super mario galaxy movie out
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strikepravus

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Posted at: 6/7/08 04:12 PM

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It seems that no matter how many restrictions there are regarding gun control, people find their way around them anyways.


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GrammerNaziElite

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At 6/7/08 04:12 PM, strikepravus wrote: It seems that no matter how many restrictions there are regarding gun control, people find their way around them anyways.

Europe disagrees with you.


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LazyDrunk

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Posted at: 6/7/08 06:14 PM

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At 6/7/08 04:29 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:
At 6/7/08 04:12 PM, strikepravus wrote: It seems that no matter how many restrictions there are regarding gun control, people find their way around them anyways.
Europe disagrees with you.

Good thing America was founded on principles opposing Europe.

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GrammerNaziElite

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Posted at: 6/7/08 06:24 PM

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Good thing America was founded on principles opposing Europe.

I like Europe better.


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therealsylvos

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Posted at: 6/7/08 09:44 PM

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At 6/7/08 06:24 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:
Good thing America was founded on principles opposing Europe.
I like Europe better.

I defy you to identify the underlying philosophic principles of the founding of the United States of America.

TANSTAAFL.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

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Grammer

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At 6/7/08 01:52 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:
At 6/7/08 01:32 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:
Total guns bans aren't practical until America fully modernizes.
and it wont because it violates the constitutional 2 Amendment.

May I remind everyone that it's not unconstitutional to change the constitution.

Check out my user page. JUST DO IT MOTHER FUCKER

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therealsylvos

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At 6/7/08 09:46 PM, Grammer wrote:
At 6/7/08 01:52 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:
At 6/7/08 01:32 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:
Total guns bans aren't practical until America fully modernizes.
and it wont because it violates the constitutional 2 Amendment.
May I remind everyone that it's not unconstitutional to change the constitution.

Aside from maybe gay marriage, what cause has even an outside chance of getting 38 state legislatures to pass legislation in favor of or against?

TANSTAAFL.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

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TheMason

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At 6/7/08 01:32 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote: All I'm asking is that we have more test determining the sanity of who we're selling guns too. There are some places where you can just pick them up and leave. Total guns bans aren't practical until America fully modernizes.

1) Any legitimate gun dealer must do a background check on anyone purchasing a gun...everytime. On the other hand, those people who sell guns illegally are already breaking the law and bypassing background checks. What makes you think that there is anything else in regards to background checks that can resolve this issue? Thus far you have failed to make an argument for this based upon reason and logic...only emotional statements. The only transaction that a person can legally buy a gun w/o a background is individual to individual sales. There is thus far no statistic that shows this is a significant enough source from which criminals are obtaining firearms to merit attention.

2) A sanity test is highly problematic. Let's say a social worker, psychologist or psychiatrist is staunchly anti-gun. Diagnosing mental illness is highly problematic in that practically everyone can be shown to have some sort of disorder. Furthermore, it sets a dangerous precedent that civil rights can be erroded on the basis of health. What is next? A person's rights to freedom of speech? A person's right to unlawful search & seizure? This is what irritates me about BOTH parties: BOTH make the claim that the other side is trampling upon civil rights...all the while they are trampling on other civil rights. Then you have your argument GNE which is basically who cares? The Constition is dead anyway...let's just go ahead and accept tyranny and a police state.

3) Europe is irrelevent. It is a totally different system and in a totally different situation than the US. What works there cannot be blindly applied here and expect the same results. That is pure folly.

At 6/7/08 01:10 AM, XxX-Nerzhul-XxX wrote: TheMason, first of all, I am not assuming I know everything of theme, like you are, and as said by the wisest, only a fool assumes to be sure of something ideological, secondly, the wielding of MILITARY weapons by militia, implies they are having access to ARMY EQUIPMENT, which would mean they are not acting by any means as civilians,

There are a few things here. First of all, I am an authority on this subject. If you look at my history of posts on this subject you will see that I have deconstructed GNE's argument multiple times and shown it to be false. Furthermore, this issue has two sides: 1) an ideological/historical component and 2) a technical component. I am uniquely qualified to speak to both for the following reasons:

Ideological/Historical
1) I have my Masters in political science and I am currently pursuing my PhD in same. I have all of the qualifications necessary to be a college instructor (the title professor really comes with the PhD) and teach why the founding fathers thought the second amendment was a good idea based upon historical trends.
2) Political science relies upon stats and I have taken several methodology courses (12 graduate credit hours so far) in which I have learned to read and interpret statistics. I have also learned how to approach social issues such as this from a scientific perspective using the scientific method.
3) My Masters concentration was in National Security...especially terrorism. Thus I have a thourough understanding of how assymetrical military forces such as insurgents, guerillas, terrorists and militias work.

Technical
1) Military training: I spent six years on active duty and the last two in the Guard. What this means is I have the training that is supposedly too esoteric and Jedi-like for the average civilian to comprehend. Therefore I am qualified to judge just how important training is in regards to militias...especially when coupled with my Masters specialization mentioned in point 3.
2) Competitive shooting: I shot competitively in college which gave me more range time than the vast majority of cops and soldiers. I spent on average 3 hours a day shooting.
3) Hunting: I grew up in rural Missouri where I hunted everything from small to large game. Therefore I understand how to kill, and the most effective ballistics to achieve this end.
4) Since I was a teenager I have torn guns apart to maintain and repair them. I know how they work. I can get most non-critical malfunctions repaired on the range in minutes.

You are correct in pointing out that only a fool thinks he knows everything about any particular subject. There are things I do not know/understand about ballistics. For example, my knowledge of the physics behind ballistics is lacking. However, that does not prevent me from understanding how the different types of bullet works. I have reached a level where I can synthesize the social science with the technical as a legitimate authority.

So I shall once again walk you and GNE through the argument why assault rifles are less dangerous and lethal than any other firearm type out there.

BALLISTICS IN LAYMAN'S TERMS
Military Ammo:
The type of ammo that is legal for use in a military firearm in combat is a full metal jacket (FMJ)/ball-type. This means it is a steel core wrapped by a hard metal casing. This round is effective at piercing bodies and armor. Now, I know that must sound particullary lethal and effective...but it is not. When these rounds enter the body they enter through a small hole (typically smaller than the diameter of pistol rounds) and travel a linear path through the body and exiting the body with a hole slightly larger than the entry wound. What this means from a medical perspective is the tissue/organ damage is limited to only those tissues/organs along this straight line. Thus the damage/destruction to a human or animal body is localizied to a small area. Unless you are lucky enough to hit a vital organ such as the heart or brain...the greatest risk to life is the victim bleeding out. Thus, ballistically speaking, military/armor-piercing rounds are the LEAST LETHAL type of bullet available.

Hunting/home-defense ammo: These bullets are made of a soft lead core, are hollow, and or jacketed. The result is more damage to the body. How? Upon entering the body these types of bullets either "mushroom" or "blossom". They change shapes to resemble either a mushroom or a flower. The effect is a bullet that will bounce around inside a chest cavity, viciously tearing up internal organs that are relatively distant from the entry wound. Furthermore, IF these rounds leave the body they leave creating an exit wound that is much larger than the entry wound.

Why the difference? In the treaties that make up what is commonly referred to as "international law", the basis for these treaties is to reduce human suffering and combat deaths. The militarialy expedient thinking is that when you kill an adversary you take him out of the fight AND piss off his comrades. However, if you only wound an individual then you physically take out three people: the victim and two of his comrades who try to save him by administering first aid and/or evacuating him to medivac. Psychologically you also take his buddies out of the fight because instead of giving them the motivation to fight harder...you drain their will to fight.

Thus a military arms designer seeks to build a bullet that will wound...not kill and then design a rifle around said bullet.

On the other hand, when you go hunting or pull a gun in self-defense your intention is to kill. Therefore, you load your gun with ammo that will quickly and efficiently kill the target.

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TheMason

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Size/Power of Ammo
Much has been said about how "powerful" assault rifles are, and their image has been thus demonizied and the reality of the situation obscured. Therefore I will clear up some myths about the different types of ammo.

Pistol ammo: These are typically the shortest rounds which means that they have less powder than either assault rifle or hunting rounds. What this means is they have less force and travel slower. However, bullets work on the principle of physics that force x mass = power. However, these bullets compensate for this lack of force by having much larger masses. Than say the bullet fired from the M-16. For example the .45 acp pistol round is 2x bigger than the bullet fired from the aforementioned M-16.

Assault Rifle ammo: These are called intermediate rounds. The reason is they are longer than pistol rounds and thus have more force than pistol rounds...but less force than the more powerful caliburs used in hunting. Also, they tend to have smaller bullets than pistols. For example, the AK-47 originally fired a 7.62mm bullet which is smaller than the popular (but ineffective/inefficient) 9mm pistol round but larger than the M-16 bullet. In fact, the trend in assault rifles is actually to make them smaller. Thus the M-16 and AK series of assault rifles now fire a bullet about as big in diameter as a .22 which is used to hunt squirells. This is why Tennessee and other states have banned the use of M-16 calibur ammo in deer hunting...it cannot assure a clean and quick kill.

Hunting Ammo: Often times the diameter of the bullet fired from a traditional hunting rifle is smaller than the diameter of a pistol bullet. However, this is compensanted by using a soft lead core, hollow point or jacketed round. The smaller diameter is further compensated by using a longer bullet which means more mass than an military round. The round's casing is also significantly larger which means that it has more force. Thus this is perhaps the most lethal type of ammo available.

Conclusion: The side of the argument that makes the claim that assault rifle ammo is inheriently more lethal and/or assault rifles are only designed to kill thus operates from an assumption that is 100% wrong. Furthermore, this is not a matter of opinion but of either historical and/or scientific fact.

I know you must be thinking how arrogant of me this statement is. But since a bullet's ballistic characteristic does NOT change with the ideological beliefs of either the shooter or the victim but remain constant because of physics...makes this objective fact. Therefore, to say that I am correct and GNE is wrong is actually a valueless statement based upon reality.

Rate of Fire
Anti-gunners point to the higher rate of fire of "automatics" than more traditional actions. Semi-automatics which fall under no special category of regulation (unlike full autos) are capable of rates of fire that are as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger. But so are double-action revolvers. This argument fails because a high rate of fire is highly inaccurate because the recoil causes the rifle barrel to pull up which means bullets are fired into the sky or ceiling. It also means that a criminal is quickly going to find themselves without ammo.

There is also the argument that they can be re-loaded faster because they are by and large fed by detachable (and often high capacity) magazines. The same effect can be achieved by smaller capacity mags as well as revolvers. Many revolvers have their cylinders mounted in such a way that empty shells can be ejected and replaced by speed-loaders in about the same amount of time that it takes to reload a high-capactiy magazine.

The real world examples of the N. Hollywood shoot-out, 1989 Stockton massacre and 2007 VT massacre demonstrate how ineffective assault rifles are compared to handguns.

Suitability for crime
I do not know how many times I hear anti-gunners say the only use for an assault rifle clone is crime. They point to superficial cosmetics to prove their point such as bayonet lugs, pistol grips and grenade launchers. However, these points fail because they are either not used in crime nor compensate for why rifles are not effective in crime.

1) Any rifle (be it an assault rifle or hunting rifle) is too long to conceal. If you look at my past links you'll see a refrence to a government report (Department of Justice) that shows inmates who used guns in crime by and large would NOT use an assault rifle or other rifle because it is too difficult to conceal.
2) The same report showed that weight was another disadvantage in the commission of a crime.
3) They are just not considered lethal enough.

Now many anti-gunners claim that a pistol grip compensates for these disadvantages because it allows for a higher rate of fire. I have already shown that this "spray & pray" technique is ineffective. The anti-gunner claim actually makes this worse...not better. A high rate of fire fired from the hip is even harder to control and even more inaccurate. This is why military grade assault rifles no longer come with full auto as a firing option...but rather a 3rd "burst". Thus reality and operationally proven fact contradicts anti-gun arguments and ideology...objectively proving it false.

Also bayonets are not used in crime...ever.

Grenade launchers are also not used in crime because those available to civilians are only capable of firing flares or obsolete grenades that are impossible to buy because they no longer exist in any quantity worth going through the trouble of taking to the black market.

Militias vs Mercenaries
You conflate the two. Sweden and Israel rely upon an armed citizenry as has the US historically. One of the reasons we were not invaded by Japan was because they knew they would repulsed by people defending their homes. Defending one's home is different from mercenaries who leave their homes to fight. So while there will always be corruption in any human endeavor, true militias in the modern, Western sense do not display the characteristics you feel they do.

Masons
I am a Mason. I am a Master Mason in the Blue Lodges of the Missouri Grand Lodge of Ancient, Free & Accepted Masons as well as the the Oklahoma Grand Lodge of the Prince Hall Assembly. Furthermore, I am familiar with the baseless disdain many fundamentalists hold for Masonry as well as the misconception that Masonry is a religion or a cult.

In order to become a Mason one must profess a belief in the Abrahamic God. In other words, one MUST be either Jewish, Christian or Muslim to join. Our rituals/ceremonies are nondenominational and include readings and teachings from the Holy Bible.

Nor do we hide our existance. We have webpages that give information about us and locations of our lodges. As for individual members, we are actually encouraged to display our affiliation by wearing Masonic jewelry and/or putting auto emblems on our cars. Furthermore, we conduct our funeral ceremony publicly outside of the Lodge. Oh yeah, if you go to a Lodge you will see that we post our meeting times for the public to see.

About the only that is hidden is our passwords and secret handshakes. We do this because like any private entity we like to conduct our business only amongst ourselves.

And so the vast majority of your arguments in which you try to question my membership in the Masons prove to be wrong. Obviously you have read much on Masonry...however you have been mislead at several junctures and therefore your knowledge is based upon falsehoods and lies. Thus when you attempt to call me out the result is you unintentionally bear false witness against me. I am a Mason.

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TheMason

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Masonic Defense (Cont)

Since I wish to maintain my anonymity I cannot 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt prove to you that I am in fact what I claim to be (either a firearm expert or Mason). However, you can look at the ballistics of various types of ammo and the cases I presented to back me up and see what I am telling you is scientific fact.

Likewise you can start looking for men wearing Masonic rings, cars with Masonic emblems on them (some states even have Masonic lisence plates) and/or look for a posting of lodge meetings publicly displayed in front of a Masonic Lodge. Thus you will find that your underlying assumption as to why I cannot possibly be a Mason is false.

The only question that remains is: have I violated my Masonic obligations/oaths. The answer is yes...but in a minor way. Masonic law prohibts discussion of denominational religion and politics within the Lodge because these topics divide man from man. However, we are not in a Lodge setting therefore I am free to express my opinions.

But I am doing this having identified myself as a Mason. Perhaps I should have choosen a better screen name. But I made the choice for private reasons, and as such has become my NG identity. Furthermore, it is no different than having this discussion face to face while I wear my ring...or put a political bumper-sticker on my car while I drive around with a Masonic emblem or lisence plate.

So in principle...perhaps I should've made a different choice in 2003. But since I do not claim to speak for ALL Masons...I am not violating my oaths or obligations.

Debunking conspiracy theories for the New World Order since 1995...

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Mason I heard gun shows pose a problem because people can buy guns at them without the same rigors that they normally have to go through at a regular store.

Do you know if this is true or not, and if anything has been done about it if it has?

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Dante-Son-Of-Sparda EVIL LEVEL 22

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hey mason what about the the ceramony with the mock killing ceramony between that master mason of Solomons Temple and his three followers who kill him and then is reborn its a Mason ritual you guys do

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LordJaric

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Posted at: 6/8/08 12:42 AM

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At 6/8/08 12:39 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: hey mason what about the the ceramony with the mock killing ceramony between that master mason of Solomons Temple and his three followers who kill him and then is reborn its a Mason ritual you guys do

you do understand that they are to keep that stuff to themselfs, right.

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Dante-Son-Of-Sparda EVIL LEVEL 22

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At 6/8/08 12:42 AM, LordJaric wrote:
At 6/8/08 12:39 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: hey mason what about the the ceramony with the mock killing ceramony between that master mason of Solomons Temple and his three followers who kill him and then is reborn its a Mason ritual you guys do
you do understand that they are to keep that stuff to themselfs, right.

but I always wanted to ask one myself about that ritual plus the one where they drink blood but i have been to lazy to go to a lodge myself.

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Dante-Son-Of-Sparda EVIL LEVEL 22

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also he is a master mason so he should know what im talking about

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TheMason

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Posted at: 6/8/08 07:07 PM

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At 6/8/08 12:23 AM, Imperator wrote: Mason I heard gun shows pose a problem because people can buy guns at them without the same rigors that they normally have to go through at a regular store.

Do you know if this is true or not, and if anything has been done about it if it has?

Here is what happens at gun shows: dealers with a Federal Firearms License (FFL) set up booths and sell guns with all the rigor that a store-front gun dealer has to go through. Same forms, same background checks.

However, say I want to sell one of my guns. I can just show up at the gun show. I can do an individual to individual sale which does not require a FFL. This is not unique to gun shows, I can do the same thing legally anywhere.

So basically what the anti-gunners are trying to do with the "gun show loophole" is govern the sale of used guns. Seeing that person-to-person sale of guns are not a significant point of entry into criminal hands (NOTE: I am not talking about stolen or other types of blackmarket sales)...the government should be paying attention to other problems.

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