damascus and forged steel

[mike-cuzins]

This is probably not the right website for this topic (i just saw a topic full of people making wooden swords.) But is anyone else interested in damascus/pattern welded steel knives?
A few weeks ago I whipped up a small LPG forge, and have a few projects on the way.
I'll post a pic of my first knife after i finish etching it (resting it in an acid bath to reveal the pattern of steel) its the only knife that is actually finished so far. There are no spectacular patterns in it because im still noob, although i succesfully folded the steel 5 times without it delaminating (thats 128 layers of steel) :) pretty good for a first try!
PICS COMING in 5 or so mins. Im just impatient to get this topic up to see the response.

[mike-cuzins]

here we go:)
just after etching, I forgot to take pics of the full thing with the handle except the proof one...
my cam ran out of battries. its lethal sharp!

[ZekeySpaceyLizard]

Sculptures and architecture are considered art.

What is blade welding if not a form of craftsmanship? An art unto itself.

Thats quite neat, making your own blade. I dont think this sort of thing's ever been posted in the art forum before.

Very cool.

[mike-cuzins]

What a mind-blowing response.
well anyway, after this if i dont get a reply i will let the post die:(

heres the specs:
4 different types of steel (im not sure what, it was scrap metal)
folded 5 times
128 layers

took me a full day (8hours) to make the blade
4hours the next day to polish the blade and sharpen
3hours to complete handle + pins
5 mins to etch (just then)

[mike-cuzins]

At 6/4/08 07:07 AM, ZekeySpaceyLizard wrote: Sculptures and architecture are considered art.

What is blade welding if not a form of craftsmanship? An art unto itself.

Thats quite neat, making your own blade. I dont think this sort of thing's ever been posted in the art forum before.

Very cool.

oops i spoke to soon.
Yeah I thought it hadn't been brought up before. and yeas, i think its art.
you can do some pretty spectacular stuff with pattern welding:)

check out this website KNIFE LEGENDS
these guys are the l33t pretty much...
see that pattern on the blade? thats all different steels forged into a pattern, same way i did mine, only atleast infinity times better...

[mike-cuzins]

even if your not interested in this art could you tell me what you think of the knife?

[MoonSlasher]

Nice, it looks pretty good. And you said this was your first one you made? i think you did an amazing job on it. I mean just making the thing must have been hard, then o make it look good you really worked hard on it.

My friend who i havent seen for a little over a year :(, was taking classes in college for stuff like this. He was building his own forge and stuff, i never got to see anything he made though. I have no idea what he is doing. My other friend who also knows him saw him last week so he is still alive and in this area.

[mike-cuzins]

you should get into it, its really satisfying.
But i can think of other ways to get satisfaction quicker.

[Havayosunu]

...you do smithy?? whoa now that's cool! And those pocket knives were quite original, great job!!

[BlackmarketKraig]

I don't know dick about knife making and the like, but I think it's fantastic that you've made one yourself and it is definitely a valid form of art. Superbly done. Wade has a thing for knives, maybe he'll wander in here...

[mike-cuzins]

yeah, he probably has a thing for good knives though...
:P

[PunchOrBePunched]

At 6/4/08 06:18 PM, mike-cuzins wrote: yeah, he probably has a thing for good knives though...

P

Don't feel bad, I once attempted to forge a knife...and failed...miserably.

How did you temper the blade? Oven or boiling?

[Dalario]

It's really cool. I alway found weapons crafting appealing, like it's own art.

I can't wait until you get better and make some really cool things ! :D

[mike-cuzins]

At 6/4/08 06:30 PM, PunchOrBePunched wrote:

At 6/4/08 06:18 PM, mike-cuzins wrote: yeah, he probably has a thing for good knives though...

P

Don't feel bad, I once attempted to forge a knife...and failed...miserably.

How did you temper the blade? Oven or boiling?

well i hardened it first, the standard way, getting it glowing hot and plunging it in oil. I used oil because i wanted to be gentle on the steel i didn't want it to crack. And then oven tempered it.

[ZekeySpaceyLizard]

If I were to, say, dump a large bundle of needles and paperclips into a frying pan, melt them, and pour them into a |> shaped mold, would it become a knife?

If I were to beat it flat with a hammer, would it then be a knife?

I must know for I am ignorant of this whole process.

[mike-cuzins]

oh, if only it where that easy, you could probably make a lead knife in a suacepan:p

if you want a quick easy way to get into this stuff then i will tell you how and give you tips, right now i have to clean my room but when I get back I will tell you the whole process :).

[MadCow]

At 6/4/08 07:12 AM, mike-cuzins wrote:

At 6/4/08 07:07 AM, ZekeySpaceyLizard wrote: Very cool.

check out this website KNIFE LEGENDS

whoa thats like some fucking future knife or some shit. if i had that in my possession i would kill anything in my sight until i grew sick and passed out in a pile of my own sick like my catchphrase i dont wanna grow up i wanna eat throw up right out of the queens mouth

[Krayon]

I used to play around with knives and whatnot all the time, and currently own one hunting knife and a large swiss army knife, and I'd say that's a decent knife you've made. It'll last, but the etching is hardly anything diffinitive. Add some fancy swirls and whatnot... Yes I know it's difficult but if you can forge the knife etc etc then you can most certainly make a blade with some nice fancy etching... go get to it I wanna see more.

[mike-cuzins]

nono, you are thinking of a different kind of etching. I dont etch any patterns into the blade, I simply leave the blade in a bath of acid, it rusts away the steel, revealing the different layers in it... It's hard to explain, but etching a pattern into the blade is cheating, you have to make the pattern out of different kinds of steels at diferent layers etcetc.

[mike-cuzins]

At 6/5/08 03:24 AM, ZekeySpaceyLizard wrote: If I were to, say, dump a large bundle of needles and paperclips into a frying pan, melt them, and pour them into a |> shaped mold, would it become a knife?

If I were to beat it flat with a hammer, would it then be a knife?

I must know for I am ignorant of this whole process.

Ok, from the beginning:
A forge is quite easy to make, If you use gas, the temperature is easily controlled, but there are some expensive bits that you need.
Start out with a charcoal forge. Check out this link for an overview
make something like that. The reason you need a forge is because your kitchen stove has no chance at heating up steel hot enough to 'weld' it.

NOW you have your forge...
what you need now is some steel.
For begginers a length of steel cable is ideal... but there wont be any fancy patterns when you are done.

To get a similar (shitty) pattern to mine, make a billet with different steels in it...
http://www.fischercustomknives.com/image s/billet_ready_to_forge_0013.jpg
The different layers are different types of steel, and will show up in different colors when you etch the blade. I used some old files and chisels that I had lying around. I cleaned of the rust off and grinded the teeth off the files and tied them all together with some steel wire.

The process of folding and welding the steel is a long one, and almost definately will not work out everytime, as each time you fold it, you need the two types of steel to succesfully weld.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forge_weldi ng

Then I suggest you browse the internet and youtube for further tips and processes etc.
Its not something that can be easily explained in a few words.

All I can say is ask me questions and i will fill in the gaps.

The picture I posted is a knife made out of a bike chain, Very nice pattern in my opinion.
Check out this website, this helped me the most with the forging process.
http://www.aescustomknives.com/docs/knif emaking11.htm
or
http://www.aescustomknives.com/docs/knif emaking21.htm

I wouldnt use the steels he uses though, they are hard to weld...

[mike-cuzins]

also you dont pour the metal into a mould,
you hammer it into shape, and then with a belt sander, sand the steel into shape, then by hand using ever finer sandpaper you smooth it off.
you then Harden the blade. You do this by heating it up again to glowing hot and plunging it into cold water or oil. This locks the steels molecular structure into its hardest state. After this point, trying to sand the steel is pointless, as it is too hard.
you then temper the steel, but thats another story, dont worry about that.

[BlackmarketKraig]

At 6/5/08 04:26 AM, mike-cuzins wrote:
you then Harden the blade. You do this by heating it up again to glowing hot and plunging it into cold water or oil. This locks the steels molecular structure into its hardest state.

Oil!? What kind of oil? Surely not just any kind of oil as plunging raging hot metal into most oil would be dangerous as hell.

I have to admit this is a lot more fascinating than I thought hearing about such things would be.

[mike-cuzins]

At 6/5/08 04:41 AM, BlackmarketKraig wrote:

At 6/5/08 04:26 AM, mike-cuzins wrote:
you then Harden the blade. You do this by heating it up again to glowing hot and plunging it into cold water or oil. This locks the steels molecular structure into its hardest state.

Oil!? What kind of oil? Surely not just any kind of oil as plunging raging hot metal into most oil would be dangerous as hell.

I have to admit this is a lot more fascinating than I thought hearing about such things would be.

um, Im not actually sure what kind it is, it's a little thicker than frying oil but thinner than honey... and its brown. and yeah, the oil does catch on fire, but it just burns at the surface... you can just bat the fire out with your hand...:)

heres the scientific explanation:
http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art 12.htm

[mike-cuzins]

here we go.
Its just Chevron Quenching Oil 70
and a pic

[ZekeySpaceyLizard]

I think this is the most educational thread I've ever seen on Newgrounds.

[mike-cuzins]

Yeah it seems to have turned out that way.
I was kinda hoping other people would share the same interest.
but sharing my interest with others is just as fun

[mike-cuzins]

yeah this is the forge
you just stick the billet in the front

[Dalario]

That's really cool. I wish I could do all that, but I don't have the time nor the material needed.

neither the patience :p

[mike-cuzins]

At 6/5/08 11:12 PM, Dalario wrote: That's really cool. I wish I could do all that, but I don't have the time nor the material needed.

neither the patience :p

well usually im quite impatient, but hammering hot steel, while liquid hot borax splashes all over the place and the forge burns away full boar and the whole while you see the glowing knife slowly take shape is such a rewarding experience.

[mike-cuzins]

nearly finished another knife, been going slow, because i didnt buy a new gas tank for a while...
I am yet to finish shaping it. harden it, put a handle on it and sharpen it. but this knife is going to be sharp!
Its made out of spring steel (from suspension) VERY tough steel...