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At 6/3/08 07:51 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: oh joy another cellardoor vs Grammer debate.

my money is on Cellardoor.

Whoever "wins", we all lose...

I'm betting $20 on cellardoor6

At 6/3/08 07:56 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote: I'm betting $20 on cellardoor6

The linkbomb is a fearsome weapon, indeed. But if Grammer can out-shout and outlast him, he'll be up 2-1.

At 6/3/08 07:58 PM, Ravariel wrote:

At 6/3/08 07:56 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote: I'm betting $20 on cellardoor6

The linkbomb is a fearsome weapon, indeed. But if Grammer can out-shout and outlast him, he'll be up 2-1.

Grammer will need a great defense, that's how the Giants beat the Patriots at the Super Bowl
It's also how Stephen Chow defeated a karate master in a 1994 film

I bet... A corn dog and some string on Cellardoor.

Don't get your hopes up douchebags.

At 6/3/08 09:12 AM, ZOMG3 wrote: 1. Their health service. When you are sick the first thing they look for is your wallet. They leave the poor and defenseless to die. Universial healthcare is the way forward!!!

The common misconception with Universal Healthcare is that it is "free," it's not. The government pays for it with your tax dollars which you didn't give them permission to take out of your paycheck to begin with, and unlike privatized healthcare (which I reaped the benefits of this morning), you have to wait for longer periods of time if you need a specialized health services.

2. America has has high emissions of gas and it seems like many Americans dont care about the environment.

True, but notice how your much lauded European Union ties a close second with China.

3. Americans like the most crappy sports

As apposed to what, soccer? An extremely slow game that takes hours on end to play, and takes an act of GAWD ABOVE to get the score above 1-0?

and don't spell words right like colour or favourite. Stop being lazy and add the extra letter. It's not hard.

We speak a different dialect of English, therefore, we spell differently. Oh we truly suck, don't we?

4. Americans are ignorant and don't pay much attention to the outside world. Most of them don't even have passports.

I've watched BBC world news, all they ever do is talk about America and how much it sucks (weirdly enough). As for the passports thing, what does that signify? Woohoo, I don't have a passport, I can't afford gas right now to go farther than 20 miles away from home, much less travel abroad, I am such a narrow minded and pathetically worthless individual for not having a piece of paper with my ugly face on it stating I can travel abroad. Whatever shall I do with myself? Boo hoo hoo.

5. America - Land of the Free...unless you are in Guantanamo, where you are convicted without evidence and don't give me this crap they are war fighters. Some were picked up from the streets in Africa, held without representation or without appeal for years and then released if they are lucky.

And they are subsequently being tried and released, which makes this whole "reason" a blatant sign of ignorance on your own part.

6. For claiming they are the first to help in a natural disater, yet denying any fair trade.

.... how exactly are these two things related to each other? Or is this something like the sports and spelling bit again?

7. For fudging the fact that none of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi yet many use that as the reason to bomb Iraq.

Actually, that's a fact that is fudged by folks like yourself and other liberal propagandists. The war in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and the government never claimed that it did, it had to do with the fact that the UN Security Council firmly believed that Saddam had WMD's and were ready to take action against them to forcefully disarm them.

So that makes two bits where I have shown YOU to be ignorant about foreign affairs...

8. Selling $20bn worth of defense to the Saudis where 16 of the 19 hijackers WERE from. Fucking geniuses.

And the CIA knew that Bin Laden would order the WTC blown up 20 years after they trained him. Yeah, because they've got fancy mystics and the like on staff.

9. Capitalism and materialism combined with negligence and apathy are running rampant while honor, dignity, and true spirituality have gone by the wayside.

And if it weren't for capitalism and materialism, you probably wouldn't have a computer of your own to go online to a membership-fee-free-supported-by-ad-reve nue website to go and vent your opinions, now would you?

10. For expeting a country bombed to pieces to thank them afterwards.

They did, didn't they?

Any suggestions?

Get a big handful of vasoline and go fuck yourself.

At 6/3/08 09:22 AM, ZOMG3 wrote: I am American but my parents aren't. They crossed the border to get here.

Oh, so that makes you an anchor baby, that means you are a walking talking example of a loophole in constitutional law and are also a major contributor to the reasons why are socialized medicine system is squeezed so hard for cash right now.

How's it feel to be part of the problem and not part of the solution?

the money is down; dance monkeys, dance!

At 6/3/08 08:18 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 6/3/08 08:10 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Don't get your hopes up douchebags.

hey we put our money on you because you actually post cited sources that are reliable.

I provided a few sources, in reply to him just to inform him of something. There will be no flamewar with Grammer. I refuse to participate if it goes down that route because I will be banned instantly.

In fact, I'm done.

At 6/3/08 09:12 AM, ZOMG3 wrote:

I'm moving to France and change my name, from John to Jean and enjoy the benefits of France; universial healthcare, quality education, great people etc.

You speak of most Americans not knowing about the goings on in the world yet you talk about France like its some sort of Fucking Paradise.

Do you NOT know that France is currently a shit-hole itself. It has so many problems with its employment system that people get paid then said people dont have to do SHIT and still get paid for not doing ANYTHING plus they dont get fired and France STILL hasnt fixed that law. It's in a downward spiral atm and its in some serious trouble...

Anyway anyone who thinks a country that had over 100 "revolutions" within 100 years is Fucking Amazing is stupid...not ignorant STUPID.

btw WTH does not having a passport have to do with not being in the know on other countries affairs??? You expect me to fly my ass out to Spain every time a train blows up so I can witness it?

You expect me to go to Paris when they finally strike oil under that stupid Derrick? (if you get this joke about France kudos)

At 6/3/08 09:12 AM, ZOMG3 wrote: The reasons:

1. Their health service. When you are sick the first thing they look for is your wallet. They leave the poor and defenseless to die. Universial healthcare is the way forward!!!

I for one say let them die. They've been holding back those who are more worthy to live. Not only that, the time and resources that have been so squandered not only keeps these invalids alive, but allows them to reproduce even more invalids, which requires even more time and resources to keep them alive. Those who do keep such people alive are doing the rest of the world a great disservice.

2. America has has high emissions of gas and it seems like many Americans dont care about the environment.

On the contrary my dear boy, the highest emissions of gas ever is idiots like you continuously talking out of your collective assholes.

3. Americans like the most crappy sports and don't spell words right like colour or favourite. Stop being lazy and add the extra letter. It's not hard.

This is totally irrelevant. Those words you mentioned can be spelt either way. As for sports, fuck 'em. I don't give a goddamn.

4. Americans are ignorant and don't pay much attention to the outside world. Most of them don't even have passports.

So owning a passport automatically makes you more knowledgable about the rest of the world?

5. America - Land of the Free...unless you are in Guantanamo, where you are convicted without evidence and don't give me this crap they are war fighters. Some were picked up from the streets in Africa, held without representation or without appeal for years and then released if they are lucky.

Interesting, but you forget one thing. Guantanamo is a war prison; we are at war in case you didn't know; these things happen. Other than that, the other bullshit you spew holds no weight to it whatsoever.

6. For claiming they are the first to help in a natural disater, yet denying any fair trade. Fixing the world trade for themselves keeping millions in poverty for their own greed.

Gentle reader:

Please consult with my response to your comment on health service above.

7. For fudging the fact that none of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi yet many use that as the reason to bomb Iraq.

;yawn;

8. Selling $20bn worth of defense to the Saudis where 16 of the 19 hijackers WERE from. Fucking geniuses.

Business is business. Besides, terrorists can be from ANYWHERE, especially your beloved France.

9. Capitalism and materialism combined with negligence and apathy are running rampant while honor, dignity, and true spirituality have gone by the wayside.

Chivalry is just as much as an outdated concept as all religion and "morality". To hell with them all. Even you yourself would find things to be much easier if we would just dispense with such trivial and conventional nonsense, I think.

10. For expeting a country bombed to pieces to thank them afterwards. "We liberated you. Now you are free, even though your home was bombed and your parents raped and mutilated!"

;yawn;

Any suggestions?

You could start by consuming the entire contents of a container of anti-freeze.

I have vented my anger. That is all.

And your pathetic little rant is just as weightless as the steam that you have emanated.

I'm moving to France and change my name, from John to Jean and enjoy the benefits of France; universial healthcare, quality education, great people etc.

Not even the most devout religious fundamentalist is that delusional.

I for one say let them die.

so children born into poor familys should die becuase their parents are poor?

At 6/3/08 08:55 PM, thedo12 wrote:

I for one say let them die.

so children born into poor familys should die becuase their parents are poor?

People who are born generally do die.

This is too easy:

At 6/3/08 08:55 PM, thedo12 wrote:

I for one say let them die.

so children born into poor familys should die becuase their parents are poor?

Spare me your appeals to emotion. This is nature in her most primal form; survival of the fittest. Those who are fit to succeed shall do so. Granted there would be times where some great calamity, reversal of fortune, or any other form of unseen circumstance might change this, but it is true for the most part.

At 6/3/08 08:10 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Don't get your hopes up douchebags.

*drops baseball cap, foam finger, and sign and walks away, wiping tears*

Spare me your appeals to emotion. This is nature in her most primal form; survival of the fittest. Those who are fit to succeed shall do so. Granted there would be times where some great calamity, reversal of fortune, or any other form of unseen circumstance might change this, but it is true for the most part.

spare me your fancy words,

what im saying is that a child dieing just becuase their parents are poor IS WRONG and no talk about "survival of the fittest " is going to change my mind.

for gods sake if everyone thought like you did we would still have slavery and 16 hour work days.

At 6/3/08 09:29 PM, thedo12 wrote:

Spare me your appeals to emotion. This is nature in her most primal form; survival of the fittest. Those who are fit to succeed shall do so. Granted there would be times where some great calamity, reversal of fortune, or any other form of unseen circumstance might change this, but it is true for the most part.

spare me your fancy words,

Request denied. Have a nice day.

what im saying is that a child dieing just becuase their parents are poor IS WRONG

"Wrong" according to whom/what?

and no talk about "survival of the fittest " is going to change my mind.

Then there really is no point in contining our little debate since you are unable to see anything beyond a black and white perspective.

for gods sake if everyone thought like you did we would still have slavery and 16 hour work days.

If I had a dime for every absurd generalization and logical fallacy you pulled out of your ass, I would be even richer.

At 6/3/08 09:29 PM, thedo12 wrote: what im saying is that a child dieing just becuase their parents are poor IS WRONG and no talk about "survival of the fittest " is going to change my mind.

Then why aren't the parents striving to climb the social ladder in order to give their child a better life?

anyone not proud to be an american move now cuz this is the greatest country ever and u will see once u leave

Request denied. Have a nice day.

not everyone can play nice i guess

"Wrong" according to whom/what?

according to the majority of the population

Then there really is no point in contining our little debate since you are unable to see anything beyond a black and white perspective.

no,
actualy im an incredibly open minded guy , although i like the majority of the population think that a child should not die becuase the parents are poor.

If I had a dime for every absurd generalization and logical fallacy you pulled out of your ass, I would be even richer.

you still havent provided a logical argument

Then why aren't the parents striving to climb the social ladder in order to give their child a better life?

becuase they dont know how,

alot of people dont know how to become rich , its hard wired into peoples brian that they arent good enough to become rich. All they know is get a job and work hard and you will succed, the thing is that dosent work anymore fifty years ago it might have but not now.

the majority of the population dosent know how to become rich and really thats the major reason thats stopping them from doing it.

At 6/3/08 11:04 PM, thedo12 wrote:

Request denied. Have a nice day.

not everyone can play nice i guess

That's life.

"Wrong" according to whom/what?

according to the majority of the population

The majority of the population believes in the existence of "god".

The majority of the population believes that there is some "sinister conspiracy" behind 9/11.

Other than that, notions of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil" are determined by victor and society in general. The reason everybody believes that the holocaust itself was "evil" and "wrong" is because our country won WW2. If Hitler would have won, we would all be singing a different tune.

The reality is that there are no "good" guys or "bad" guys. There are only winners and losers. This is how it has always been and will always be, and nothing is going to change it.

Then there really is no point in contining our little debate since you are unable to see anything beyond a black and white perspective.

no,
actualy im an incredibly open minded guy , although i like the majority of the population think that a child should not die becuase the parents are poor.

If the child has no personal significance whatsoever, will not be able to contribute in the future, and if its parents are unable to care for it, then it does not deserve to be kept alive most likely deserves to die.

If I had a dime for every absurd generalization and logical fallacy you pulled out of your ass, I would be even richer.

you still havent provided a logical argument

I have done so. It is you who fails to see it. Either that or you are unwilling to accept it. Reason itself can also be a harsh mistress sometimes.

That's life.

it dosent have to be that way

The majority of the population believes in the existence of "god".

i see nothing wrong with beliving in god , even though i am atheist myself.
I however think there is something wrong with religion, too think that a god would want you to spend your life worshipping him is tottaly insane .

The majority of the population believes that there is some "sinister conspiracy" behind 9/11.

wow really?

well im sure thats mostly in the u.s.

Other than that, notions of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil" are determined by victor and society in general. The reason everybody believes that the holocaust itself was "evil" and "wrong" is because our country won WW2. If Hitler would have won, we would all be singing a different tune.

hmm well, you have a point

although you cant blame the germans for following Hitler I mean they did live in a total shithole and then Hitler comes around promising a hole bunch of things.Worse case senario they have to live in the shithole they always been living in , best case Hitler keeps his promises.

although i definitly belive that hitler could not take over north america.

The reality is that there are no "good" guys or "bad" guys. There are only winners and losers. This is how it has always been and will always be, and nothing is going to change it.

there is soceity and the general opinion of the public the two usaly go hand in hand, I for one belive that people are inheritly good.

although I guess whats "good" is based upon your opinion.

If the child has no personal significance whatsoever, will not be able to contribute in the future, and if its parents are unable to care for it, then it does not deserve to be kept alive most likely deserves to die.

but thats assuming that the child will not be able to contribute in the furture.

I agree that if thoose conditions are met then i would say they child should probaly die , however alot of great and influential people were brought up in poverty.

I have done so. It is you who fails to see it. Either that or you are unwilling to accept it. Reason itself can also be a harsh mistress sometimes.

well the first logical arguement you have provivded is this ...

If the child has no personal significance whatsoever, will not be able to contribute in the future, and if its parents are unable to care for it, then it does not deserve to be kept alive most likely deserves to die.

At 6/4/08 02:59 AM, thedo12 wrote: i see nothing wrong with beliving in god , even though i am atheist myself.
I however think there is something wrong with religion, too think that a god would want you to spend your life worshipping him is tottaly insane .

At least we can agree on one thing.

The majority of the population believes that there is some "sinister conspiracy" behind 9/11.

wow really?

well im sure thats mostly in the u.s.

There are many of those in different parts of the world who do as well, I am sure.

Other than that, notions of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil" are determined by victor and society in general. The reason everybody believes that the holocaust itself was "evil" and "wrong" is because our country won WW2. If Hitler would have won, we would all be singing a different tune.

hmm well, you have a point

although you cant blame the germans for following Hitler I mean they did live in a total shithole and then Hitler comes around promising a hole bunch of things.Worse case senario they have to live in the shithole they always been living in , best case Hitler keeps his promises.

The Nazi government (and fascism in general) was arguably one of the most efficient forms of government ever created. It's true that Hitler suffered a nervous breakdown and ended up fucking the whole thing up, but it is still a valid political idea that, if properly implemented, can give unparalelled strength to any nation.

although i definitly belive that hitler could not take over north america.

Perhaps not, but there's a first time for everything.

But I feel that we are getting way off topic with this Hitler and Nazi thing.

there is soceity and the general opinion of the public the two usaly go hand in hand, I for one belive that people are inheritly good.

although I guess whats "good" is based upon your opinion.

You're learning.

It's true. What we perceive as "good" is based mainly on perspective.

Example:

When the lion captures and eats the lamb it is 'good' for the lion and 'bad' for the lamb. Should however the lamb escape and the lion starve it is then 'good' for the lamb and 'bad' for the lion.

If the child has no personal significance whatsoever, will not be able to contribute in the future, and if its parents are unable to care for it, then it does not deserve to be kept alive most likely deserves to die.

but thats assuming that the child will not be able to contribute in the furture.

I agree that if thoose conditions are met then i would say they child should probaly die , however alot of great and influential people were brought up in poverty.

That is because they were able to persevere even in the most grievous circumstance and were made all the stronger for it. 'Struggle' is as an purifying fire burning with great intensity.

Why should I have more compassion for a poor child than the poor child's parents?

At 6/3/08 07:18 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 6/3/08 06:13 PM, bcdemon wrote:

At 6/3/08 04:21 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 6/3/08 09:12 AM, ZOMG3 wrote: 1. Their health service.

The best in the world

Opinionated and based on your own assumptions.
World Health Organization rank: 37

We've been through this before.

And the WHO still stands as more knowledgeable and credible than your opinion, get over it.

ZOMG3, don't be ashamed, just move and start over. Nobody will hold your place of birth against you if you're willing to leave it.

Lol. Why would I move when I've been all over the world and find the US to be better in basically every single conceivable aspect?

Huh? I didn't say anything about you moving. Maybe read what is written, not what you want to read.

Hell, ask yourself that question. Why don't you leave and come to the US? Is it because the CBC has brainwashed you into thinking your country is better?

No, it's because I have already lived in the USA and I prefer it here...

Or is it because you can't? Are you so bitter so you need to mislead yourself into thinking the country you're stuck with is better? You don't have the means to come to the US like so many of your countrymen do, so it's convenient for your self-esteem and sense of identity to pretend like you don't want to.

ROFL, I have legal alien status and social security number from my previous time in Florida, if I want to move to the USA all I have to do is cross the border.