Russian-US Relationship

[physicsman09]

What is the current relationship between the United States and Russia?
I know that we're technically allies but I can't help feeling as if there is still some tension between the two lasting from the Cold War.

When are we going to learn that Russia isn't the enemy? And when are the Russians going to learn that the US isn't the enemy?

[animehater]

Yeah I'm pretty sure things between us are getting frosty all over again.

[cellardoor6]

At 5/25/08 03:59 PM, physicsman09 wrote: What is the current relationship between the United States and Russia?

Crap.

I know that we're technically allies but I can't help feeling as if there is still some tension between the two lasting from the Cold War.

We're not allies, neither technically or by de facto. We are at odds with each other over just about everything.

When are we going to learn that Russia isn't the enemy? And when are the Russians going to learn that the US isn't the enemy?

Well, first off, Russians are still bitter about the fact that we won the Cold War. Their empire ceased to exist, and almost all of the countries of the former Soviet Union became allies with the US shortly after the Soviet Union fell. Their former sphere of influence is now basically under our thumb, this pisses them off... hard.

That sets the entire mood, because Russians are incredibly prideful people. They still believe their country deserves to rule the world, they still believe that the US is the biggest obstacle to them achieving that. Even if they try and play along with what the US does sometimes, they are only doing it as they bide their time and slowly try to regain their superpower status (if that will ever happen). They are taught that we are their enemy, they are taught that we've robbed them somehow of something they deserve. The propaganda in Russia is so strong it's almost hard to imagine how people can swallow it.

Russians will hate the US for a long, long time, regardless of what Americans think or what our government does. Even Russians that move here fucking hate us and the very premise of our country. The propaganda warped their minds so hard, that even though they left Russia because it's a shithole and came to the US for a better life, they still have this idea that Russia is superior to the US at everything. I've met Russians that recite crap they heard as children. For instance, I met Russians that said that the Soviet Union beat the US to the moon, but didn't tell the world about it because the spacecraft they used needed to be kept secret from the US, and they didn't feel the need to boast like we did. Biggest crock of shit ever... but this is just an example of the crap you'll hear as the staples of Russian pride.

[bobomajo]

I had no idea you were a pro American Russian cellardoor. Its generalizations like that, that gets America into so many wars in the first place, if you keep it up your world will become a very paranoid place to live in. The world is not black and white, it has a whole spectrum of colours.

[bcdemon]

At 5/25/08 06:44 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The propaganda in Russia is so strong it's almost hard to imagine how people can swallow it.

You will find people who say the same about American propaganda?

[jew193]

you guys have been watching sum of all fears waaaaaaay too much

[Zeistro]

People say american are overly patriotic.......no amount of American nationalism compares to the sheer irrationality exhibited by the russians. You will see Russians youtube users promoting the idea their shitty military is superior to the USA's. You can't argue with them or they'll most likely ban you if you tell them what a piece of the shit the T-90s are compared to Leopard 2s, Challenger 2, or M1 Abrams.

Some of them even proclaim being patriotic for the "USSR" despite the fact nationalism is one of the obstacles marxism seeks to overcome and the USSR doesn't exist.

[animehater]

At 5/26/08 02:34 PM, Zeistro wrote: Some of them even proclaim being patriotic for the "USSR" despite the fact nationalism is one of the obstacles marxism seeks to overcome and the USSR doesn't exist.

Speaking of youtube once I actually saw a comment reading "long live the USSR", I then immediately laughed my ass off.

[uhnoesanoob]

At 5/26/08 03:46 AM, bcdemon wrote:

At 5/25/08 06:44 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The propaganda in Russia is so strong it's almost hard to imagine how people can swallow it.

You will find people who say the same about American propaganda?

Not quite. We don't blame other countries for our problems now do we? Russia is pathetic, and it's a joke. Russia holds no power, and is just trying to be a roadblock to our sucess. The relations we should focus on is with China.

[Zeistro]

At 5/26/08 02:41 PM, animehater wrote: Speaking of youtube once I actually saw a comment reading "long live the USSR", I then immediately laughed my ass off.

The BBS Poli section might have its flaws, but thankfully the regulars here have the intelligence not to chant either "Long live the USSR" or "Sieg heil." Hell, some of the fifteen year olds have more sagacity and political insight than the 40 year olds on that God-forsaken site.

[cellardoor6]

At 5/26/08 03:46 AM, bcdemon wrote:

At 5/25/08 06:44 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The propaganda in Russia is so strong it's almost hard to imagine how people can swallow it.

You will find people who say the same about American propaganda?

And be wrong, and hypocritical in saying so.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 5/26/08 07:51 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 5/26/08 03:46 AM, bcdemon wrote:

At 5/25/08 06:44 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The propaganda in Russia is so strong it's almost hard to imagine how people can swallow it.

You will find people who say the same about American propaganda?

And be wrong, and hypocritical in saying so.

Audacity that only cellardoor can speak, because only cellardoor could possibly prove that true. [to a degree]

[bcdemon]

At 5/26/08 07:51 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 5/26/08 03:46 AM, bcdemon wrote:

At 5/25/08 06:44 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The propaganda in Russia is so strong it's almost hard to imagine how people can swallow it.

You will find people who say the same about American propaganda?

And be wrong, and hypocritical in saying so.

Cool, just wanted to verify that the USA was the only country in the world without propaganda. Because as we know (through your teachings) that every country in the world is overwhelmed with propaganda, as to mask their inferiority to the USA.

[TonyTostieno]

At 5/26/08 11:06 PM, bcdemon wrote: Cool, just wanted to verify that the USA was the only country in the world without propaganda. Because as we know (through your teachings) that every country in the world is overwhelmed with propaganda, as to mask their inferiority to the USA.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Fucking funniest thing I've seen all night.
We don't have any propaganda? Dude you've gotta be nuts, we may not have it bad, but there's definitely propaganda, there always will be.

[Korriken]

Sieg Heil!

[bobomajo]

Its a shame politically incorrect cartoon are being banned.

Some acceptable American propaganda I was exposed to growing up

[bcdemon]

At 5/26/08 11:15 PM, TonyTostieno wrote: Dude you've gotta be nuts..

Nah, I just thought if I agreed with Cellar, then he wouldn't be inclined to load up a pile of you tube videos of how other countries are plagued by propaganda, meanwhile his only way to prove the US isn't full of propaganda is to tell you that it isn't and call you names for suggesting such a ridiculous thing. As entertaining as it is, sometimes it's more annoying than anything.

[Imperator]

At 5/27/08 12:03 PM, bobomajo wrote: Its a shame politically incorrect cartoon are being banned.

Some acceptable American propaganda I was exposed to growing up

You obviously didn't watch much TV.....

Come on man, I grew up on Captain Planet too, and that can only count as propaganda considering the current stink on climate change and Global Warming.

Now consider the political ramifications and indoctrination issues behind a REAL cartoon.

YOOOOO JOE!!!

[HorseloverFrost]

The U.S. has really fallen behind on its propaganda lately, though. There was a day when the War Information Department could craft a poster that would make everyone want to pick up their gun and fight the Hun.

Come on, DoD! Get your head in the game. 'Islamofacists?' Lame. . .

[Christopherr]

At 5/26/08 11:15 PM, TonyTostieno wrote: We don't have any propaganda? Dude you've gotta be nuts, we may not have it bad, but there's definitely propaganda, there always will be.

Lol, the National Guard paid for a freakin music video not too long ago.

[yeahitsme]

the current relationship between America and Russia is one of limited friendship. talks are peaceful, commerece is without a sense of caution or major hatred. however, political views cause some tensions, especially with Putin's doings in the past and his new position as Prime Minister. also there is the old "concerns" as there are with any country: that countries alliances, and its activities, such as who its trading with and who it supports around the world, which have always been kindof and eyebrow raiser for the united states

[cellardoor6]

At 5/29/08 01:35 AM, bcdemon wrote:

At 5/26/08 11:15 PM, TonyTostieno wrote: Dude you've gotta be nuts..

Nah, I just thought if I agreed with Cellar, then he wouldn't be inclined to load up a pile of you tube videos of how other countries are plagued by propaganda

And what would you do?

meanwhile his only way to prove the US isn't full of propaganda is to tell you that it isn't and call you names for suggesting such a ridiculous thing.

It's so funny how much you just spew out random crap knowing full-well that what you're saying isn't true.

You know I can provide actual evidence, while people on your side of the argument can provide either nothing at all, or would be met with an equal amount of evidence that would negate your lopsided points.

The US does not have propaganda even closely resembling that of Russia. You know this. In fact, you know that your own country has a more intensive, government-sponsored propaganda campaign than the US could ever have. But you don't want to touch on that subject so you just talk about me. Cute.

As entertaining as it is, sometimes it's more annoying than anything.

Yeah, it's easy for people like you to discount something as "annoying" when it meticulously repudiates your entire political outlook. Never mind the fact that you could just, you know, not read it.

[bcdemon]

At 5/30/08 03:37 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: You know I can provide actual evidence.

Put up or shut up. Provide actual evidence that proves beyond a doubt that the USA doesn't suffer from massive propaganda. I don't want to to see links about this country or that country, links that prove a lack of propaganda in the USA is all you need. Meanwhile, I'm going to read Scott McLellans new book, see what his take on the propaganda machine in the USA is like. And yes, he is more credible and knowledgeable than you on this subject.

[cellardoor6]

At 5/30/08 08:24 AM, bcdemon wrote:

At 5/30/08 03:37 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: You know I can provide actual evidence.

Put up or shut up. Provide actual evidence that proves beyond a doubt that the USA doesn't suffer from massive propaganda.

Argument from ignorance.

You have not proved that the US suffers from propaganda in the first place. You're taking it as a given fact that needs to be disproved.

I don't want to to see links about this country or that country

Yes, because you want to steer the argument into a direction where you pretend that if I can't DISPROVE something, then it automatically means it's true.

links that prove a lack of propaganda in the USA is all you need.

HAHA you're such a ghoul. You're basing the argument on whether or not I can disprove something, yet you can't prove it in the first place.

Hey, let's play your game: I don't want to see any links that are inconvenient to me, I'm being like you. But what I want you to do is right now, PROVE that ALIENS AREN'T SECRETLY RUNNING YOUR COUNTRY.

Go.

No, no. Don't give me any links about your constitution or anything. You need to disprove the existence of aliens in your government. I need DNA evidence of all the members of parliament, the PM, all local officials etc...

If you can't disprove it, then it's true and aliens in fact run your country.

Meanwhile, I'm going to read Scott McLellans new book, see what his take on the propaganda machine in the USA is like.

And I'm sure the book will be like porn to you.

And yes, he is more credible and knowledgeable than you on this subject.

And yet he didn't prove anything. He gave his opinions. And his opinions are countered by a whole host of other people who claim that he is lying, or that he was never present and never had access to the information that he's basing his claims on. He was a press secretary mind you, and he's trying to sell a book.

Totally credible.

[HorseloverFrost]

Take a look at this.

<img src="http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/
z216/alephzamiel/Your_future_al-Zarqawi.
jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">

[HorseloverFrost]

Damn, forgot newgrounds wont let you do that.

Anyway:

[cellardoor6]

At 5/30/08 05:28 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: Pretty poor.

Mainly because after the Cold War, the United States did not view the Russians as a liberated people, and instead of going "shit, these people have had a terrible time, we should help out", America decided to flex it's muscles and go "HURK HURK HURK, EAT IT PINKO, AMURCA WINS!"

That's because Russia maintained it's crappy behavior after the Cold War, and of course, their nukes. The former Soviet satellites got loads of US aid because they didn't represent a continued threat the way Russia did (and does).

And as far as flexing muscles, the US went incredibly easy on the Russians. In fact, the US was actively involved in the process, helping to organize the collapse of the Soviet Union so that it wouldn't be chaotic. Russia was incredibly vulnerable, and still is in a lot of ways. If it had been the other way around, and the US collapsed, the Soviets would have immediately marched into western Europe and converted the continent to Communism.

Hell, do you think the Soviets would have provided aid to the US? Do you think that the Soviets would have allowed countries from the former sphere of US influence to maintain their independence?

[cellardoor6]

At 5/30/08 06:09 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:

At 5/30/08 05:42 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:
That's because Russia maintained it's crappy behavior after the Cold War, and of course, their nukes. The former Soviet satellites got loads of US aid because they didn't represent a continued threat the way Russia did (and does).

The only reason Russia mantained it's crappy behaviour towards the US is because the Russians were viewed as losers rather than as a liberated people.

Yeah, and that's how they themselves felt. They didn't feel liberated because they were the ones that did the enslaving in the first place. They felt like they lost their empire and that it was all America's fault. They became sore losers so they acted accordingly; whereas most of the former soviet republics and former communist satellites (like Poland, East Germany) felt rightfully liberated and giddily reintegrated with the western world.

And as far as flexing muscles, the US went incredibly easy on the Russians. In fact, the US was actively involved in the process, helping to organize the collapse of the Soviet Union so that it wouldn't be chaotic. Russia was incredibly vulnerable, and still is in a lot of ways. If it had been the other way around, and the US collapsed, the Soviets would have immediately marched into western Europe and converted the continent to Communism.

Well in fairness, weren't we over there showing them how to be capitalist?

We didn't do it by force. We didn't manipulate their political system against their will and force them to become capitalist.

Hell, do you think the Soviets would have provided aid to the US? Do you think that the Soviets would have allowed countries from the former sphere of US influence to maintain their independence?

Of course the Soviet Union wouldn't have, but the United States was slightly more moral than the Soviet Union

Um... the very fact that most of the former soviet puppets are now allied with the US (willfully) and are are democratic, independent countries means that the US was, and is, a whole hell of a lot more moral.

[cellardoor6]

At 5/30/08 06:33 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: I'm simply stating that, in my view, your country did not handle the collapse of the Soviet Union well.

And you're not exactly providing very good evidence of this. You're also not considering the context of the situation either. Russia was still our enemy, forking over the same kind of aid we did to other countries would be counterproductive. It was their behavior that made it this way. It's not like we did it for revenge or to rub our perceived victory in their face.

But despite this, we still did give them some aid. We rescheduled debts, gave them loans, sent over economic advisers to prevent their economy from collapsing entirely.

What do you expect the US should have done instead? Should we have done the equivalent of the Marshal Plan and given them loads of free money and build up their infrastructure when they'd just eventually use it against us again?

I know that to you the United States can never be wrong and continuing this debate is the height of futility. Thank you.

Pfft.

[AapoJoki]

When the Soviet Union collapsed, it seemed like Russians were happy to get rid of the Party and Gorbachev, and Yeltsin became really popular. I wonder if it was during Putin's era that the Russians' superpower hankerings re-emerged.