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At 5/25/08 04:04 PM, totaln00b wrote:

At 5/24/08 09:47 PM, DJ-Keen wrote:

. How many times have we fought a nation that provided decent military training to their soldiers, had jets, anti-aircraft weapons, submarines, etc?

Discuss..

during the original gulf war.. Desert shield AND desert storm, The Iraqi military was actually well equipped and trained. They had fighter jets, ANTI - aircraft weapons, and im not entirely sure about submarines.. But in modern days, submarines are basically a futile weapon system.

The Iraqi jets were pretty much fighting blind because they had no radar or attack computers. Most of their weapons and vehicles were second hand from Russia.

1. IF we are the "Best", then that would mean we have no equal anyways, therefor your entire statement=incorrect.
2. Really the only other countries in the world that are close/equal/better then us are China, and England. We have absolutely NO reason to go to war with England, and China is to busy making money off of us to worry about a fight.
So I don't really see who we would have to fight anyways. Name another country that has ANY kind of political problem with the U.S., and has a military even CLOSE to ours. I'm trying to think of one, and can't. North Korea would be the next best thing. Then there is Israel, but they don't want any part of us really. They have better trained soldiers on average, but they don't have NEAR the technology that we have.

So please... tell me otherwise.

At 5/25/08 04:17 PM, Epica wrote:

At 5/25/08 04:14 PM, Ledgey wrote:

Well, why not fire it from your own territory if you can launch it anywhere?

Are you actually arguing that submarines can't do this? which they can....it's a fact.

and also because it's not the only thing a submarine can do, they have many other uses as well.

Ofcourse not, I'm saying that it doesn't make it a unique weapons system with the introduction of ICBMs and you made it sound like it is.

At 5/25/08 04:26 PM, Ledgey wrote:

At 5/25/08 04:17 PM, Epica wrote:

At 5/25/08 04:14 PM, Ledgey wrote:

Well, why not fire it from your own territory if you can launch it anywhere?

Are you actually arguing that submarines can't do this? which they can....it's a fact.

and also because it's not the only thing a submarine can do, they have many other uses as well.

Ofcourse not, I'm saying that it doesn't make it a unique weapons system with the introduction of ICBMs and you made it sound like it is.

I never once said it was unique, I was saying it wasn't a futile weapons system like that other dude said...

So fuck off.

At 5/25/08 04:21 PM, Bramly-apple wrote: The Iraqi jets were pretty much fighting blind because they had no radar or attack computers. Most of their weapons and vehicles were second hand from Russia.

Completely untrue.

First off, the USA were the ones to supply the Iraqi's with their weapons during the Cold War.

Second off, do you really think that a fighter jet has any use if there's no attack computers? I don't think it's humanly possible to hit a target with a missile by manually aiming at a fighter jet's speed in mid air against a target moving just as fast if not faster. Also, radar is one of the more simple forms of detection and I'm sure they had some form of it.

At 5/25/08 04:12 PM, SkaKnight wrote: The U.S army is now letting prison inmates fight for us. Just throwing that out there.

We also have criminals joining up for the training, then going AWOL to take their tactical knowledge back to the streets.

But I'm sure everyone's military has idiots involved to some degree.

The United states is unparalleled by any country militarily, and this is a well-known fact.

The Top Ten By Combat Power are as follows:

1. United States
2. China
3. Israel
4. India
5. Russia
6. Korea, South
7. Korea, North
8. United Kingdom
9. Turkey
10. Pakistan

On why the US is three times more powerful than than the #2 contender, I defer you to [1]

"The United States Military is regarded as the most "Capable" military in the world by many leaders and people around the world. The USM came to be known as the most "Capable" military in the world when it won its first victory against England during the American Revolutionary War of 1775 - 1783. England at the time had the most feared Navy in the New and Old World. After the war against England in 1775 the United States would prove again to world its military power by being victorious in many battles and wars to come.

The Wars that have built up the USM reputation:

Defeat of England - American Revolutionary War of 1775 - 1783
Defeat of The Ottoman Empire - The First Barbary War of 1801 - 1805,
The Second Barbary War of 1815 - 1816
Defeat of Mexico - Mexican-American War of 1846 - 1848
Defeat of The Confederates States - American Civil War of 1861 - 1865
Defeat of Spain - Spanish-American War of 1898
Defeat of the Axis Powers - World War 2 of 1939 - 1945
Defeat of the Soviet Union - Cold War 1947 - 1990
Defeat of Iraq - The Gulf War 1990 - 1991

It should be heavily noted that the current "war" in Iraq (2003 -) is not a conventional war but a more or less an occupation of Iraq as there is no official Iraq Military fighting against the USM. It is currently a joint operation with the New Iraq Army.

The United States politics and citizens also play a major role in the USM examples of these can be seen in current efforts in Iraq and previously in Vietnam.

Facts of the USM:

Money - Money is vital in any military or war. A Military needs money to (buy-fuel-and-feed) Buy the most up-to-date armory which is effective in countering the opposing Militaries; Fuel its Ships, Airplanes, Vehicles, and much more armory that requires any type of fuel; Feed their Military personnel by Food, Weapons and Explosives by ammunition. USM has the highest defense budget of any country in the world totaling an estimated amount of $623 Billion-Dollars (2008) leading the second ranked country (United Kingdom $70 Billion-Dollars 2008) by $553 Billion-Dollars

Personnel - Personnel plays an important part in any military or war. However it is worthless if the militaries personnel are weak, under trained, under qualified, unarmed or under equipped (small quantities of armory) and if they have or utilize old and or weak armory; to little armory, small numbers of trained personnel useful for operating vital equipment. A military needs personnel to (Combat-and-Operate) Combat in the battlefield; Operate machinery or equipment. To be a member of the USM you must be between 17 - 45 Y/O and must have a High School Diploma or a High School Diploma Equivalent and pass certain "Moral"(Criminal) and "Medical" Exams. The current (2007) ASP or Active Service Personnel of the USM has about 1.426 Million personnel and a Reserve Force of 1.458 Million which brings the total to about 3 Million Military Personnel also the USM ranks second only to China in ASP.

Technology - Technology is very useful for the modern military and war. Modern Technology can be used to spy and destroy the opposing militaries. The USM has the most modern arms currently available thanks to its gigantic defense budget. The USM has more quantity in any armory than any other nation or country in the world such armory includes but not limited to Vehicles, Bullet Resistant Gear, Tanks, Airplanes, Nuclear Submarines, War Ships, APC's, UAV's, Firearms, Explosives and Ammunition, and many more. The USM also has more highly trained personnel qualified for operating this and more type of equipment which is a necessity.

Occupations and or Deployments - The USM is the only military in the world to have occupational forces world wide and in all the contents in the world. This makes the USM the most prepared country for invasion, counter attack, and a major deterrent for any other country that tries to attack or to invade the U.S. or any one of its allies.

Current Ongoing Major USM conflicts:

MIDDLE EAST

Iraq - About 170,000 USM Personnel (2003 - 2007)
Afghanistan - About 19,500 USM Personnel (2001 - 2007)
Qatar - 158 USM Personnel (2007)
Bahrain - 2,333 USM Personnel (2007)
Kuwait - 10(?-Check) USM Personnel (2007)
Oman - 1 USM Personnel (2007)
United Arab Emirates - 37 USM Personnel (2007)

AFRICA:

Kenya - 153 USM Personnel (2007)
Egypt - 29 USM Personnel (2007)

ASIA:

South Korea - 26,477 USM Personnel (2007)
Japan - 48,844 USM Personnel (2007)
Diego Garcia - 311 USM Personnel (2007)
Hong Kong - 10 USM Personnel (2007)
Indonesia - 19 USM Personnel (2007)
Singapore - 115 USM Personnel (2007)
Thailand - 113 USM Personnel (2007)

AUSTRALASIA

Australia - 26 USM Personnel (2007)
Marshall Islands - USM Personnel (2007)

EUROPE

Germany - 63,958 USM Personnel (2007)
Greece - 948 USM Personnel (2007)
Italy - 11,693 USM Personnel (2007)
United Kingdom - 10,967 USM Personnel (2007)
Spain - 1,268 USM Personnel (2007)
Norway - 3 USM Personnel (2007)
Turkey - 1,365 USM Personnel (2007)
Belgium - 1,367 USM Personnel (2007)
Portugal - 864 USM Personnel (2007)
Netherlands - 444 USM Personnel (2007)
Greenland - 138 USM Personnel (2007)

This makes the USM the most prepared country for invasion, counter attack, and a major deterrent for any other country that tries to attack or to invade the U.S. or any one of its allies.

Nuclear Arsenal - Having a Nuclear Arsenal gives a military the ability not to use conventional ground forces for invasion but the ability to use major indirect fire against other nations or countries. The USM has about 9,938 nuclear stockpiles which is by far the biggest and most dangerous stockpile in the world the second place country being Russia which has about 8,400 nuclear stockpiles.

Intelligence - Intel is very useful in war as it can assist by finding opposing military officers, encampments, vital infrastructure and much more. The United States has by far the best Intelligence Agencies over the world compromising of the CIA and many others. Intel is very useful in war it can assist by finding opposing military officers, encampments, vital infrastructure and much more."

At 5/25/08 04:51 PM, Darkstrategy wrote:

At 5/25/08 04:21 PM, Bramly-apple wrote: The Iraqi jets were pretty much fighting blind because they had no radar or attack computers. Most of their weapons and vehicles were second hand from Russia.

Completely untrue.

First off, the USA were the ones to supply the Iraqi's with their weapons during the Cold War.

Second off, do you really think that a fighter jet has any use if there's no attack computers? I don't think it's humanly possible to hit a target with a missile by manually aiming at a fighter jet's speed in mid air against a target moving just as fast if not faster. Also, radar is one of the more simple forms of detection and I'm sure they had some form of it.

Sorry I was in a hurry so I didn't explain much. The Iraqis had got their SCUD missile launchers, Jets and AK47s from Russia. I wasn't aware that USA had sold them some aswell.

The Iraqi radar installations had been destroyed and I watched a documentry where they said somthing like they had no attack computers but I might be remembering wrong :)

At 5/25/08 05:23 PM, Bolo wrote:

I'm sure we have troops in more places than that..

Does anyone know how many troops we have total?

At 5/24/08 09:47 PM, DJ-Keen wrote: Okay, people from the US tend to say that the US has the "best" military.

And this is true.

There, end the thread. END THE FUCKING THREAD.

A war with a major super power would be stupid. It'd cost money, lives, and maybe even civilization. Although we love to wave our cocks around, world leader don't. They know better.

At 5/24/08 09:53 PM, Stomer wrote:

At 5/24/08 09:51 PM, lazyyMitch wrote: Inb4 Cellardoor6

and his wank, false, wikipedia knowledge and what he's learnt from American history books and articles from the American press.

So a bunch of shit basically.

Yeah, so if he provides links to mutiple sources it is a bunch of shit, but when you just say whatever comes to your mind it is 100% fact? Nice double standards you got there.

What about Canada? I thought we were pretty powerful too?

I dont know im just throwing this out there.

At 5/26/08 09:30 PM, B4gle wrote: What about Canada? I thought we were pretty powerful too?

I dont know im just throwing this out there.

I've never heard of anything spectacular coming from Canada since Crown Royal...

Look, we don't have the best military, but we have the best technology, and the largest numbers.

the US has helped a few countries...

philippines

At 5/24/08 09:59 PM, Stomer wrote:

At 5/24/08 09:58 PM, Achilles2 wrote:

At 5/24/08 09:47 PM, DJ-Keen wrote: Discuss..

The only potential Superpower out there is China. This means that you could consider China the 2nd most powerful country in the world should you consider the USA the most powerful. The United States has roughly 5,300 nuclear weapons compared to China's 160 (according to Wikipedia, which cites sources for these numbers).

Yes, the military itself may be weaker than other nation's. But the overall strength of the USA's military (in which you must factor in every weapon it uses, including the nukes) is much stronger than any other nation's.

China SAID they had 160, and you expect them to tell the truth!?

They will have thousands. It's not as if you need many anyway....

OH and Russia has more than USA.

This is what gets me Russia isn't prepared to fight at all. Having not even solved the hunger problem and the 98 other problems they have they honestly couldn't do anything. China on the other hand like North Korea couldn't get the nukes far enough to hit us so while we could be playing some Call of Duty 4 and have a nuclear submarine go wipe out the country they'd be trying to make the technology to even scratch us.

Bolo, when the hell did you turn into CellarDoor?

All I can say is we have never lost a war. We pulled out of Vietnam due to the extremely unpopular reception it received at home. Then two years later Saigon fell. But that is not a lost war. We just left.

Let's go over all the wars the U.S. has won...

American Revolution (Although we did have support from France)
War of 1812
Mexican-American War
Spanish-American War
World War I
World War II
Korean War
Gulf War

That's pretty much all the major wars in which the U.S. has been involved, with the exception of Vietnam. How can you say with a straight face the the U.S. military sucks? Unless you're living in a fantasy world... you can't.

At 5/24/08 09:54 PM, Jezuz wrote: Does everyone forget that Saddam Hussein had one of the largest and most advanced armies in the world when we invaded the first time?

I think he a the fourth largest the first time, but they weren't that advanced.

At 5/26/08 11:05 PM, Bookman60 wrote: All I can say is we have never lost a war. We pulled out of Vietnam due to the extremely unpopular reception it received at home. Then two years later Saigon fell. But that is not a lost war. We just left.

Let's go over all the wars the U.S. has won...

American Revolution (Although we did have support from France)
War of 1812
Mexican-American War
Spanish-American War
World War I
World War II
Korean War
Gulf War

That's pretty much all the major wars in which the U.S. has been involved, with the exception of Vietnam. How can you say with a straight face the the U.S. military sucks? Unless you're living in a fantasy world... you can't.

generally i think the U.S Military sucks due to a few factors, they either start a war on a country thats retaliation is throwing rocks screw it up and need someone to help usually the English as our PM is so far up America's arse we may as well be known as Lil U.S the refugee camp of europe. Or come in at the last leg of an on going conflict for no reason other that "oh i smell a fight" and try to claim a total victory. And in both cases the U.S Militrary seems to hire either blind, colour-blind or just plain stupid people as they shoot more off friendlies than bloody enemy.

Oh and im really sick of hearing how terrorism or global warming is evil it juat gets old at first yes "oh no we're all going to die" but after this long and still the same tune kinda like "yes we know you said it now go and discover something else that gives you cancer we need more cause not a cure"

generally i think the U.S Military sucks due to a few factors...

The USM doesn't "suck", are you retarded? One can believe that they may be inferior to another force but to say that they suck is just downright ignorance. Go read up on the capabilities that they have, although they have made some (huge) mistakes and failures in the past and occasional present, they by no means "suck".

At 5/25/08 05:23 PM, Bolo wrote:
Defeat of The Ottoman Empire - The First Barbary War of 1801 - 1805,
The Second Barbary War of 1815 - 1816

I never heard of those wars before.

At 5/26/08 10:13 PM, Grubby wrote:

Iraq - Ongoing War in Iraq

technically speaking the war in Iraq has been over for some time now.

At 5/26/08 11:24 PM, Electric-Bla wrote:

generally i think the U.S Military sucks due to a few factors...

The USM doesn't "suck", are you retarded? One can believe that they may be inferior to another force but to say that they suck is just downright ignorance. Go read up on the capabilities that they have, although they have made some (huge) mistakes and failures in the past and occasional present, they by no means "suck".

personally i would not have said suck that was the first guy but they are seriously in need of a slap or something to sort them out

At 5/26/08 11:17 PM, Fbj676 wrote:

War of 1812

The goal of this war was to expand the control of the United States over Canada. By the end of the war Great Britain had control of more territory than before the war started, but returned it as part of the peace treaty.

The war was instigated by the US and it failed in it's primary objective. The war was lost.
Hell, if Britain wasn't preoccupied with Napoleon than who knows how she would have handled the colonies?

At 5/25/08 03:52 PM, nuclearmoose919 wrote: Come on, doesn't everyone understand that war doesn't solve anything?!?!?!

Well, yeah it stopped slavery,
and naziism,
and it stopped the spread of communism,
it also gives countries more land/money/power, thus providing happier citizens,
and it keeps people in line...

But other than that it solves nothing!!!

You are a true fuckin' idiot. Let's go through this

What started The National Socialist German Workers Party as a militant Fascist takeover? The crushing result and taxing of Germany after WORLD WAR !, and a right good amount of blind-faith and even blinder hatred. What started the Civil War? The Union's chase of Slavery Abolishment, as well as the rich of the south manipulating the undereducated poor of the south into believing that if the blacks were set free on America that it would be the end of the world and our country. Now for Communism, when it comes down to it the countries we've fought that were communist ran themselves dry due to the frailty of the all-encompassing use of Communism. When has a war ever stopped communism? I don't know one, I'm open for education though as long as you're not "Those evil red bastards gots muh guns between there cheeks and then they were all like 'i love america.'" As for land/money/power, those things run off of the concept of war. Greed, hatred, and pissing contests. The international version of "My pee-pee is bigger than yours asshole!" You're basically saying that the government sending our brothers/fathers/uncles/nephews/sons and now mothers/daughters/nieces/aunts to their possible deaths over mostly an economic issue more than a moral issue.

In the past America has mainly gained economically from the wars. The Revolutionary War was forced because we were far well off in the New England Colonies than anybody in England herself. England had basically left the New England colonies to do as they pleased. Once England realized how well-off people were in America they found new income and decided to try and apply the same taxes to America that they did on their homeland. America used to their way of life didn't want any of that, most Americans were fine under the English Crown, and even preferred it. The Civil War was started because the concept of slavery was out-dated. The North decided not to have any part of it and for the most part abolished it, and out of the south only about 25% of people had ownership of a slave, and of that 25% only about 5% had more than 4 slaves. Even fewer actually had a plantation, the rich and well-educated new that their card was up when laws started making Slavery more and more illegal. The South decided to try and become therir own country and make Slavery completely legal, and then starting the Civil War.

I could probably go on but I shouldn't, an sorry to all of you that don't give a flying fuck about US History. However to those Americans that should know about their own county's past, you know what they say, "Those that don't know their history are doomed to repeat it."

In terms of military strength, the United States is strong in sever aspects. One is money. We can fund our military well. We also have technology and world influence. The larger countries, who could beat us us have no reason to. China, which is approaching Super Power status, trade heavily with us, therefore a wr would cripple their economy. Russia is loosing power (as is the United States). But, we have fought wars versus well developed countries. The War of 1812 was against a much superior nation. As for more more modern wars, most larger countries have no reason to go to war with us, but the effects would be much like WW1 and WW2. Much of the US power comes form its nuclear stockpile. China does not posses this kind of power, and if the US were ever in serious trouble, China could easily be brought to its knees, like Japan.

At 5/27/08 12:48 AM, Eskimojo wrote: You are a true fuckin' idiot. Let's go through this

When did you become cellardoor's apprentice? :P

But a developped country doesn't even have a fucking reason to go to war.

Bolo already ended this thread.

Go home, everybody.