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I've never gotten people who play online all the time. These people commend games like Halo 2 and CoD4 for their multiplayer, yet ignore the stories almost entirely in comparison. It's mind-boggling to me, since I play these games and find myself thinking "Who are these people? What are they doing here? What are their goals? What are they fighting for? Why is it that these questions get little attention; attention which is focused almost solely on little games between friends or strangers that usually last 5 minutes.? What would make these people exchange a chance to create a universe that could be as compelling to learn about (if you feel like this about a game as you play it, and the resolution leaves you happy or satisfied, then it's done this) for a chance to make a small supporting beam for what amounts to a fad?"

Some of these people would say to me (after I ask questions like these) that it's the multiplayer that was the focus from the beginning. "But why?", I'd ask. "Why not enrich what you already have?" Halo, even with an overtly generic SPACE MARINES SHOOTAN ALIEENS plot, could have ended up with a resolution in 3 that would make any writer proud to have penned. But they didn't, which confuses the fuck out of me.

"But Xtesh", they say, "the story is already great!" Fine. I don't have a problem with someone else enjoying something. But I almost always need more in a game. I want to walk away being truly concerned about the fates of these fictional characters and what the consequences of what they did were. It doesn't have to be incredibly intelligent writing, as I honestly felt that in the 7-9 hours of FFIX that I played, I came to empathize with Vivi for being such a great person with such a shitty childhood. I never even learned about his origin, but what he did and what was done to him were enough.

The most vivid example I can give of what I'm trying to explain can be summed up with the last playable part of MGS3. As Snake aims a gun at his lover/mentor/friend/comrade, someone who he had lived with for ten years, the music fades, and you hear the soft chirping of birds in the distance. Everything is calm, and you're in a field of white flowers. You press down on the R1 button, and you see something.

You see tears start to swell up in Snake's eyes as he mentally prepares to kill the most important person in his entire life. He doesn't want to do it. The Boss urges him to do it, and he kills her. They take this even farther by having you shoot her yourself, not with machinegun fire, but with one shot fired personally by you in the climatic cutscene.

That kind of thing strikes a chord in me. It makes me question things. Not things like "the meaning of life", but questions that are just as important are questioned. What could be going through someone's mind as they do that, I wonder. How did The Boss feel, knowing that she, one of the greatest patriots her country had ever seen (her unit personally led the offensive from Normandy Beach onwards throughout all of WWII), would be known by all but under a dozen people at the time as the worst traitor in the history of the world? I always find myself asking how I would respond to things such as this. The more a game makes me do this, or the more symbolism it has in it, the more valuable the experience seems to me. By symbolism, I don't mean the upfront and in-your-face symbolism that Bioshock had, I mean the kind of symbolism that you don't completely get until years later when someone tells you something that makes everything click in your head.

The more and more this kind of thing happens, the more attached I become to the characters, and the more and more satisfied I get from playing through a second, third, even a fourth or fifth time. By the sixth time, it happens. I expand on the story. In my mind, what I know of the characters has become so second-hand to me that I'm thinking up what they do later, or even before. But that's just me. The resolution will always be infinitely more to me than my millionth headshot.
__________

For you TLDRs, I want people to put at least the same kind of effort into the plot , depth, and symbolism of their videogames as was put into To Kill a Mockingbird and Fahrenheit 451 combined. Also, multiplayer should never, ever, ever be the first, second, or even third most important priority in a game with a single-player mode.

Your thoughts?

For me, the importance of the story depends. Games like Halo 3 and COD4, for example, have a generic
" Save the universe" or "Kill the terrorists and save the planet from nuclear destruction" but they are still great games. Games like Mass Effect, for example, has such a deep and complex story that it actually becomes a selling point.

The reason I played a lot of RPGs on the PS1 was the stories they had. And it's a good thing you mentioned a Metal Gear game because if you didn't then I would have. (MGS3 being the deepest game story I've played IMO)

I do enjoy the games that can do it far more than many FPS's although I liked COD4's story. It was well written and it just worked for the way the game was played. Brothers in Arms Road to Hill 30 is another good example but anyways, yeah first person shooters are usually not the type of games that can do it because most of them rely on the formula of completing a level followed by a cutscene-rinse and repeat. The good story first person shooters had dialogue and unique moments not only after the level but also during the level.

Otherwise I turn to RPG's and some action/adventure games because they are more likely to have a higher quality story than shooters. Graphics are nice and it's really cool to see how detailed you can make a gun look, but I am just the type of person who would put gameplay and story/plot development you see in RPGs ahead of the graphics charged shooters you see today.

BTW Grandia 1>Halo 3 ^___^

Oh and now about multiplayer. As an example I can use COD4 again. I love COD4's story, but I love the multiplayer even more. I agree that a game with a good story is golden, but if it also has a great multiplayer then all the better. I'm done playing missions on the single player because I've already played them enough times and I'm bored of them, but multiplayer is the sole reason I'm still playing the game even months after it came out. I could care less if other people don't care about the story as much as me too. I don't need to have a discussion about it to get enjoyment out of it.

At 5/23/08 01:54 AM, 36Holla wrote:

Oh and now about multiplayer. As an example I can use COD4 again. I love COD4's story, but I love the multiplayer even more. I agree that a game with a good story is golden, but if it also has a great multiplayer then all the better. I'm done playing missions on the single player because I've already played them enough times and I'm bored of them, but multiplayer is the sole reason I'm still playing the game even months after it came out. I could care less if other people don't care about the story as much as me too. I don't need to have a discussion about it to get enjoyment out of it.

At least you played the single player mode. When my brother first got Halo 3 he popped it in without even playing story mode. I don't know why that bothered me so much.

I only play single player, so story is really, really important. Unless it's just a racing game or I just fancy shooting dinosaurs for a bit or something.

Took the words right out of my mouth Seth. I don't get people who play games simply for XBOX live and the multiplayer.

How is it fun to fight people in the same areas over and over and over?

Eh, story doesn't matter in a game, at least not to me. If I want a good story, then I'll go read a book. Critiquing a game's story is like critiquing the shininess of your PS3, it doesn't matter.
Take Super Mario Brothers for example. It has the one of the shittiest stories ever, and it is one of the most timeless games ever.

I find games with a decent story (mgs series, god of war) far more compelling to play through.

Hell, metal gear portable ops on my psp had such dull, god awful gameplay (i partially blame the psp itself)..but the story is keeping me going.

I think it largely depends on genre. Action games, a good story always helps. RPG's, it's a necessity or I'll get bored. For things like FPS's and fighting games and such...not so much. The multiplayer in these types of games is so integral to the experience that the single player mode essentially functions as little more than a glorified tutorial meant to train players.

I think that a compelling story is definitely important, but just how important it is to the enjoyment of the overall experience depends on the game. I can't play an RPG without a great story, but Nintendo continually makes near-plotless classics.

While story is important but not essential, I think that atmosphere is very essential, especially for a game that doesn't have much plot. CoD 4 has a generic storyline, but it harshly shows the ugly side of war, and that makes it an overall better cinematic and emotional experience. Super Mario games have almost no plot, but the characters are bursting with personality.

It's all a game by game thing.

At 5/23/08 11:10 AM, Mendou wrote: How is it fun to fight people in the same areas over and over and over?

Yes, because they never update anything or upload different areas.

I normally don't care that much about the storyline in games, but in games where you can't skip story based dialogue, I prefer it if it's funny or well written instead of generic, serious, "You are the chosen warrior" crap.

At 5/23/08 04:18 PM, TheSovereign wrote:

At 5/23/08 11:10 AM, Mendou wrote: How is it fun to fight people in the same areas over and over and over?

Yes, because they never update anything or upload different areas.

I'd still take an epic story over 10-20 extra maps. You'll get bored of the maps after a while, no matter how fun they are, but an exceptionally great story will keep you playing for years.

Storylines were meant to give a reason for the gamer to keep playing and to give the game that real life touch.

The storyline of a game is really important, for most genres like RPGs.

Without a storyline, a game becomes pointless. And who wants to play a game that does not have any point?

Almost nobody.

The amount of importance for a good story strongly depends on the genre of game; if you're playing a racing game, then a story is pointless, but for something like an adventure game, a good story is very important.

The main reason that I like a good story is that it makes the game more addicting, you don't ever want to stop playing because you'll always want to know what happens next. Not every game needs a good story though, if the gameplay is really good but the story is lacking, then the game will still be enjoyable.

Fuck off, only the game's graphics matter.

At 5/24/08 04:42 PM, TehreTard wrote: Fuck off, only the game's graphics matter.

I wondered how long it would be before you showed up

I agree with you Xtesh, and MGS's story is so damn deep even as a big MGS fan I find it difficult to remember everything, so the week before MGS4 is released me and my friend are going to play through MGS1, TTS, MGS2, and MGS3 to get the story again.

I consider the story incrediably important, since you know, a game is pretty much telling a story. It doesn't have to be deep or filled with plot twist, as long as they try to do something new and actually take time writing out the plot. Unfortunately most games these days follow the same cliche over and over again, with a hint of originality no where near it.

MGS is about one of the only stories which is really deep. For modern non RPG games anyway.

If it is an RPG, the story must be addictive and catchy.

Most hardcore gamers today are overly shallow.
The don't care about stories, just gameplay and multiplayer.
It's as simple as that.
Then they get picky with game themes, expecting something new then ridiculing it when they don't like it, which is why most hardcore gamers dislike Capcom as Capcom sticks close to what they have.

I enjoy the story in games, and I like those kind of complex stories as they build thrill and suspense.
Most of these are rpgs however, kinda why I like them.

MGS3 will always hold a special place in my own mind.

The ending was just beautiful, espessialy after you had to kill The Boss. Just watching all of the white flowers turn red perfectly brought upon the emotional sense that Snake went through.

At 5/24/08 09:46 PM, knuxrouge wrote: Most hardcore gamers today are overly shallow.
The don't care about stories, just gameplay and multiplayer.

Caring about gameplay isn't shallow. Gameplay is the deepest part of the game. Caring alot about graphics is almost always shallow, and even complaining about a story when the story is unimportant (like in a Mario game) is shallow.
Gameplay is muchmore important than a good story. Still stories are nice, they're necessary for some game genres, they're more important than graphics.
I'll never understand why people play video games looking for a story. Stories are additional unnecessary things (in most game genres) they're the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

At 5/24/08 10:40 PM, MCSMstudios wrote: I'll never understand why people play video games looking for a story. Stories are additional unnecessary things (in most game genres) they're the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

Because it's easy to feel ripped off when you get a game that has a plot that consists of:

OMG OMG OMG OMG LETS GO SHOOTS TEH FUCKZ OUT OF ALIENENZ WITH OUR GUNZ AND SHIT FOR NO APPARENT REASON AND WERE LIKE SPACE MARIENS.

I rest my case.

At 5/24/08 10:43 PM, SniperWolf1564 wrote:

At 5/24/08 10:40 PM, MCSMstudios wrote: I'll never understand why people play video games looking for a story. Stories are additional unnecessary things (in most game genres) they're the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

Because it's easy to feel ripped off when you get a game that has a plot that consists of:

OMG OMG OMG OMG LETS GO SHOOTS TEH FUCKZ OUT OF ALIENENZ WITH OUR GUNZ AND SHIT FOR NO APPARENT REASON AND WERE LIKE SPACE MARIENS.

I rest my case.

But people play these games for FUN. Many people enjoy shooting the fuckz out of alienenz. If you buy a game like that looking for a story you're setting yourself up for disappointment. It's like buying "Dude, Where's my Car?" and getting upset because it didn't have a great story.

At 5/24/08 10:50 PM, MCSMstudios wrote: But people play these games for FUN. Many people enjoy shooting the fuckz out of alienenz. If you buy a game like that looking for a story you're setting yourself up for disappointment. It's like buying "Dude, Where's my Car?" and getting upset because it didn't have a great story.

Let me tell you of a little game called Cave Story. It has a very well done storyline (complete with a back story, too,) with gameplay consisting of a very simple side-scrolling platformer/shooter, complete with boss fights. This is some of the most fun that I have had with a game with a storyline recently, and I suggest you download it (and a translation patch.)

MGS3, also had a great storyline, and great gameplay, and is still fun.

Also, the reason why I watch most movies is because of it's storyline. I will not pay for a movie ticket if said movie has no plotline. If it's a comedy, I can just wait for it on HBO or something.

I agree with you 100%. I always found myself wondering why i mainly care about the storyline of a game. While I'll buy a ton of RPG my brother would buy every Madden game each year it came out. I began to wonder why i preferred RPG's then it struck me, I, being an avid reader, enjoyed the storyline.

I found it funny that when i asked my brother why he buys every new Madden game he simply said, the Better graphics and new gameplay, then he asked my why I buy all those RPG games. My response was a little more complex, "it is like an interactive book that doesn't have to be read straight through. I could go this way or that even if the story ended up the same. Heck in Chrono Trigger there were over 10 different ways to end the game,". He thought I was stupid but I was satisfied.

From FFIX Vivi became my most favorite character from the start. He just seemed so pitiful yet he wanted to know who he is. Vivi was a good kid but he allowed people to push him around. I actually fell in love with this guy and his quest. I think this one had the greatest story out of all the Final Fantasies.

Zidane-The carefree theif.
Garnett-The curious princess.
Vivi-The troublesome child.
Steiner-The loyal knight.
Freya-The Lonesome Warrior
Quina-The Quirky Gourmand
Eiko-The thought-to-be Last Summoner
Aramant-The Reclusive Bounty Hunter

The game had suck a deep storyline and i was young at the time yet I found it simply amazing and had so much to offer. I remembered it was best to let Vivi win the Festival of the Hunt, and that the card game was much better than the previous. FFIX only disappointment to me was how the final boss was just put there. At least in the other games they gave an explanation. The cutscenes were simply amazing and gave so much information with no words.

I still think FFVIII had the worst storyline ever.

At 5/24/08 10:56 PM, SniperWolf1564 wrote: Let me tell you of a little game called Cave Story. It has a very well done storyline (complete with a back story, too,) with gameplay consisting of a very simple side-scrolling platformer/shooter, complete with boss fights. This is some of the most fun that I have had with a game with a storyline recently, and I suggest you download it (and a translation patch.)

MGS3, also had a great storyline, and great gameplay, and is still fun.

Also, the reason why I watch most movies is because of it's storyline. I will not pay for a movie ticket if said movie has no plotline. If it's a comedy, I can just wait for it on HBO or something.

But some of the people have been saying they only finish a game because of the story, and to me that means the game sucks. If the gameplay can't keep you interested the game has failed. Not that stories are bad, but they should always be secondary to fun.

I guess it really comes down to tastes. I go to see movies only when they're comedies, other such movies with fleshed out complicated plots are something I watch when I'm bored.

At 5/24/08 11:01 PM, MCSMstudios wrote: But some of the people have been saying they only finish a game because of the story, and to me that means the game sucks. If the gameplay can't keep you interested the game has failed. Not that stories are bad, but they should always be secondary to fun.

Not entirely. I won't give Mass Effect praise for it's gameplay (since it is very similar to most shooters, with an leveling up system added,) but it's storyline was deep and involving. It alone provided me hours of fun and excitement, since it gave me a feeling that my own actions actually meant something.

Games need a story to give the player a sense that they have to keep playing. These storylines provide a sense that they are doing something important.

At 5/24/08 11:10 PM, SniperWolf1564 wrote: Games need a story to give the player a sense that they have to keep playing. These storylines provide a sense that they are doing something important.

I disagree. I think Highscores and Multiplayer say enough about not needing a story to feel accomplishment; in those cases it's a rank of some kind or beating your friends in competition. If the game is fun I'll keep playing it. Take puzzle games, Tetris for one, you never really accomplish anything but it's still fun to play. I could play Mario Bros. for hours and still have fun. Besides, when I play video games I never feel like I'm doing something important, even Zelda.

P.S. I'm really amazed that we're having a discussion here and not arguing (There's a difference).