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At 6/4/08 02:49 PM, ILovezoms wrote: i perfer people to explain things to me

i have a friend i'd like you to meet, his name is sarcasm.

At 6/4/08 02:54 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 6/4/08 02:49 PM, ILovezoms wrote: i perfer people to explain things to me

i have a friend i'd like you to meet, his name is sarcasm.

shall we continue with atheist on death and dying

At 5/19/08 03:47 AM, qu3muchach0 wrote: i find it somewhat odd that atheists, people who i view as some hardcore mofos, don't quite know how to deal with the aspect of death and dying... some even converting to a religion when death happens to someone they know/love.

my question is simply this:
if atheists are strong willed and independent, why do they fall back upon some form of religion when death or disaster strikes?

i'm not dissing them, but it was always something that intrigued me and really speaks volumes about the frailty of mankind. anyone care to discuss?

well, it depends on their willpower and besides they only beleive that once you die your dead, your nothing but a corpse, and they even question what they beleive similar to a religious person questioning their own beleifs.

Those are just the weak minded ones. There are strong and weak atheists. A weak atheist was just brought up without religion and hasn't given religion much thought and is likely to convert.

At 5/19/08 03:47 AM, qu3muchach0 wrote: i find it somewhat odd that atheists, people who i view as some hardcore mofos, don't quite know how to deal with the aspect of death and dying... some even converting to a religion when death happens to someone they know/love.

my question is simply this:
if atheists are strong willed and independent, why do they fall back upon some form of religion when death or disaster strikes?

i'm not dissing them, but it was always something that intrigued me and really speaks volumes about the frailty of mankind. anyone care to discuss?

I'd like to see your proof that people "convert" when a loved one dies. I just had a loved one die and I didn't convert. I feel much more happy that I know the truth and not something garbled up to be me "feel" better. And heaven would be more like hell anyway, considering you have to live forever. The first million years will be cool, but I don't think I could take any more.

At 5/19/08 03:47 AM, qu3muchach0 wrote: i find it somewhat odd that atheists, people who i view as some hardcore mofos, don't quite know how to deal with the aspect of death and dying... some even converting to a religion when death happens to someone they know/love.

my question is simply this:
if atheists are strong willed and independent, why do they fall back upon some form of religion when death or disaster strikes?

i'm not dissing them, but it was always something that intrigued me and really speaks volumes about the frailty of mankind. anyone care to discuss?

Well to atheists, death = nonexistance which is alot worse than the happy idea that you may see them again, so in other words, atheists make themselves look like emotionless machines controlled by chemical reactions in their brans as the evolution theory they clasp onto for dear life since that is the only theory that doesn't associate God.
So Atheists in their own minds have no creator therfore have no one to answer to for their actions after they die, so ofcourse it would seem atheists are mean inhuman figures that drag unsuspecting people into their basements to feed off of lol.

But seriously, the atheist belief is dieing as much as this planet is.

Uh, I can't imagine myself falling back into religion no matter what happens.

Unless that happening somehow proves some religion, which I highly doubt.

At 5/19/08 03:47 AM, qu3muchach0 wrote: i find it somewhat odd that atheists, people who i view as some hardcore mofos, don't quite know how to deal with the aspect of death and dying... some even converting to a religion when death happens to someone they know/love.

Death is the ultimate mystery. We cannot know what lies beyond, only that we can't come back. That's kinda scary. Fear will drive people to do unspeakable things. Embracing religion is just a way to escape from that fear.

my question is simply this:
if atheists are strong willed and independent, why do they fall back upon some form of religion when death or disaster strikes?

Obviously, those atheists who fall back on religion when times are tough aren't nearly as strong-willed or independent as they would like to be.

i'm not dissing them, but it was always something that intrigued me and really speaks volumes about the frailty of mankind. anyone care to discuss?

Personally, my lack of religion has very little to do with my will or my independence. Sometimes I wish some church could embrace me and tell me that everything will be okay as long as I do what they say. It would be nice to believe that some ghost in the sky will take care of me forever. Forget death. Forget rotting in the ground. We aren't monkeys at all, we're these sacred creatures that were crafted in the image of gods, possessing an eternal quality that goes beyond death.

Sometimes that's how I feel. Then I realize that there is nothing to be afraid of. Life is little more than sensory input and internal processing of that input. If it doesn't die, it was never alive to begin with. Death is just a ripple in the tide of change. Accept that change is the only constant, and be ready for it. Or don't be ready, and get crushed by the undertow. Or climb out of the damn sea and onto the invisible boat.

At 5/19/08 03:47 AM, qu3muchach0 wrote:

:my question is simply this:

if atheists are strong willed and independent, why do they fall back upon some form of religion when death or disaster strikes?

I didn't fall back n religion when faced with a loved ones death or tragedy. What in the heck are you talking about?

We aren't sacred creatures. Everything is connected. At least when I get all into a supernatural (omg pox I used the religious word incorrectly AGAIN, not) I believe that it's more than just a god, I believe that everything holds its own mystery, as we still don't know why any of its here in the first place. But more than that, I feel like every piece matters.

We're all just a bunch of bits swirling around in a giant fishbowl.

"Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is." -yoda

in a sense we never die

Being an atheist myself, I refuse to believe that every single atheist converts to a religion before they die or when somebody they know dies. Yes, I'm sure it has happened quite a lot, but I'm sure many have kept their beliefs to their death. Hell, I'm sure even some religious folk have become atheist on their deathbeds with the that "if God really existed, he would never allow this to happen to me" methodology.

As for what happens after one dies, I personally don't know. I could be wrong and I may burn in this so-called Hell, but it could also be that your thoughts just cease to exist and you are no more than a lifeless corpse rotting in the ground, or some other reason I haven't thought of yet. Perhaps you turn into a chimpanzee with a pink skirt and dance for the rest of eternity. The way I see it, only those who are dead even have the slightest chance of knowing what happens after life. Kind of ironic if you think about it.

Here's a question:

What do you guys (staunch atheists that is) do for funerals? Do you have a priest come in to give a eugoogly, or what?

Is the body presented in someone's home if you keep the churches entirely out of it?

At 6/10/08 12:33 AM, Imperator wrote: Here's a question:

What do you guys (staunch atheists that is) do for funerals? Do you have a priest come in to give a eugoogly, or what?

Is the body presented in someone's home if you keep the churches entirely out of it?

I don't give a fuck what happens for my funeral. There is such a thing as a Humanist funeral ceremony and they're not hard to organise. You can do whatever you like in the UK if you get planning permission - bury them in the back yard if they so desire.

It depends. Like my dad will probably have a Catholic funeral, because his relatives are Catholic and it would be important to them to have the whole Catholic ceremony.

As far as eulogies go, a priest giving a eulogy (funny that it's 'a' rather than 'an', I suppose that's cos you pronounce it with a 'yooo-logy') about what a good Catholic my dad was seems like a waste of time. Surely the eulogies given by the deceased's loved ones are more important and touching?

At 6/10/08 12:33 AM, Imperator wrote: Here's a question:

What do you guys (staunch atheists that is) do for funerals? Do you have a priest come in to give a eugoogly, or what?

Is the body presented in someone's home if you keep the churches entirely out of it?

But you can do whatever the Hell you like. I don't care what happens in my funeral - if my relatives are all religious then I'd prefer a religious ceremony because they would prefer a religious ceremony. If I could have my ideal atheist funeral, it would be a Viking funeral, being pushed out to sea on a burning longship, but it's not like I would care when it was happening.

So, 'staunch atheists' do whatever they like in funerals, and if they want a standard ceremony with no mention of God, Heaven and Hell, then I suppose they would google 'Humanist Funeral'. But it's not like it means anything. Being dropped off in the forest and feasted upon by all the animals there would be a fantastic ending for me and a coffin seems like a waste of wood. Viking funeral is cool though and fuck the wood.

At 6/6/08 01:46 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Well to atheists, death = nonexistance which is alot worse than the happy idea that you may see them again,

doesn't make it any more right or any less wrong of the idea of an afterlife

so in other words, atheists make themselves look like emotionless machines controlled by chemical reactions in their brans as the evolution theory they clasp onto for dear life since that is the only theory that doesn't associate God.

atheists still have emotions, and evolution is almost a proven fact from what I've seen and many of us religious people accept it, not just atheists.

So Atheists in their own minds have no creator therfore have no one to answer to for their actions after they die, so ofcourse it would seem atheists are mean inhuman figures that drag unsuspecting people into their basements to feed off of lol.

I can't tell if you are jokeing on this one or are you just a fucken idiot.

At 6/10/08 12:43 AM, LordJaric wrote: I can't tell if you are jokeing on this one or are you just a fucken idiot.

The latter.

I think disbelief in the afterlife makes my life better. I have insane amounts of appreciation for the fact that I am experiencing the universe for this short period; if I thought my soul was eternal then why would I care about these 70 years on Earth? I'd probably blow my entire life making sure eternity was as luxurious as possible.

Like, I can't even see how you can square 'eternal life' with 'aren't I lucky to be alive in the 21st century?' They are mutually exclusive ideas - if life is eternal then who the fuck cares what century you're alive in and how good your ipod and internet and pharmaceuticals and life is.

Dawkins' books are very good for making you fully appreciate evolution. In 'Unweaving the Rainbow' I think, he points out that the number of people who could be alive today is staggering; not just 'I was the last in a line of lucky sperms' but that your potential genetic makeup could easily be a far greater man; there are millions of people who could be alive in your place but they're not, they never got to exist. And you did. So don't complain about it.

On a different note, I've witnessed death in deeply religious families - they deal with it just as well as atheists and sometimes FAR WORSE - I have witnessed 'Jimmy wasn't baptised, oh no, he's spending eternity being tortured', with cries and real upset.

And on a logical note, religious people are very vague about what the soul is, but usually have a 'dualist' idea where the soul is working with the brain but they're not the same. They accept that memories and personality are well-defined brain functions. So if you lose memories and personality when you die, who the fuck cares about your loved ones - you don't even remember them. My life is happier with everything making realistic sense, and 'the soul' is another example of 'difficult-to-make-sense-of' religious ideas.

Always makes me happy writing shit like that, about how awesome life is and how death just makes it more worthwhile. And it's such an easy realisation too - religious people should ponder what realisations 'death is final' ACTUALLY would give you, rather than making up shit about morality.

Surely the eulogies given by the deceased's loved ones are more important and touching?

Public speech is not something I want my friends doing in an emotional situation, but that's more personal preference than anything. Priests have a lot more practice at that sort of things, and are emotionally detached from the deceased.

Seriously, I don't even want some of my friends speaking at my wedding, let alone my funeral......

At 6/10/08 01:09 AM, Imperator wrote: Public speech is not something I want my friends doing in an emotional situation, but that's more personal preference than anything. Priests have a lot more practice at that sort of things, and are emotionally detached from the deceased.

Why would you prefer someone who doesn't know your loved one talking very generally about God and Religion on the day they died? I can't imagine anything worse than going to my dad's funeral and no-one talking about what a great man he was and making jokes about him; just some standard spiel.

I'd imagine most people you talk to will feel the same. Usually the most emotional parts of a funeral are the deceased's favourite songs and poems and speeches that are like a Best Man speech but more sober. Like, one of the things that a funeral is good for is uniting grieving people and allowing emotional outlet, and a loved one doing a speech is more likely to do that than a priest.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but I think you're the outlier and most people would agree with me.

I know I certainly was quite ticked off when the priest kept on rambling about God and Jesus at the funeral of a loved one. The name of the deceased was mentioned once in the beginning, MAYBE twice, but I doubt it. And they even had the gall to go around to collect money.

Then again, I think I wouldn't have liked it either for some strange dude that never even knew the deceased to go and talk about the person.

Oh yeah I have to agree with the atheists here, funerals are a fucking perversion of that person's memory.

I mean unless you have awesome funerals, which you can. Spock was shot into space, etc.

That may seem frivolous, but the point is you can make anything your own.

At 6/10/08 09:11 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: Oh yeah I have to agree with the atheists here, funerals are a fucking perversion of that person's memory.

I mean unless you have awesome funerals, which you can. Spock was shot into space, etc.

That may seem frivolous, but the point is you can make anything your own.

personally i would like to be chucked in a forest somewhere when i die let some foxes feast on my remains or just slowoly decompose into the grounds

At 6/10/08 10:54 AM, ILovezoms wrote:
personally i would like to be chucked in a forest somewhere when i die let some foxes feast on my remains or just slowoly decompose into the grounds

Trees gotta eat.

If you think about it your particles would eventually make it into grass, into a deer's mouth, into a wolf's stomach, dead wolf into the ground.

You'd make it there eventually even if you didn't do that.

At 6/10/08 11:35 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: If you think about it your particles would eventually make it into grass, into a deer's mouth, into a wolf's stomach, dead wolf into the ground.

You'd make it there eventually even if you didn't do that.

I think there's something cooler about big mammals and birds eating your flesh than little worms eating your flesh.

You know the 'funeral by sky', in some dry desert place, maybe Tibet?
http://www.avnerofer.com/links/stories/S kyBurial.htm
hack you up and feed your flesh to the vultures. Man that's fucking cool - straight to the sky, no fucking about.

At 5/19/08 01:10 PM, hippl5 wrote: Oh wait, that would make you look like a crazed moron if you're the only one doing it.

Sucks to be you...

I on the other hand practice islam. The only money I pay from my pocket is to the poor and needy. I pay for nothing else but my devotion to god. Religion is a scam if it is made by faulted human logic. Scientology is one of these scams.

On the subject: Atheism converting to religion is logical because if the believed in what they do, they would just think life ends in the ground. It is said our soul leaves our body to the heavens. Those who do not believe in god (Allah in arabic) and do not worship him is damned to their own dismay.

At 5/19/08 07:51 AM, Chickidydow wrote: I expected as much, just because I said bullshitting atheist doesn't mean I believe all atheists are that. I hate it when people put words in my mouth and ideas in my head! Stop it! And yes, I believe in the existence of God, which is why I expected to get flamed in this thread of atheists, and he will forgive, its one of the base ideas of the church.

Secondly, hipp15, get the fuck out. Gays are welcome in more contemporary churches and jews? Thats a whole different religion! What the hell are you talking about with jews? Why would they even want to join a church when they have their own damn religion? I don't understand that at all, also thats an extremely biased view of organized religion, your basically saying all churches are scams, well thats simply not true but rather than argue with you about it I see your so damn biased against religion I'm just going to stop.

That's true the definite scan church is the Roman Catholic church of the Antichrist, whose name is Vicarius Fili Dei, which the numeral value of adds up to 666. Yes, the pope is the antichrist, and his church is dressed in purple and scarlet, and is on seven hills/mountains, each with its own blasphemous name. They crucify Jesus again and again and worship idols, denying christ.

To me death is an eternal slumber, as an atheist who swears to science as a way to describe the world I know (note, not believe) that all the chemical reactions of life stops upon death, or a bit later if you're really strict about it. I see no reason to why our consciousness should continue to exist in another plane of existance, I see no reason to why my "soul" should be punished or rewarded for all eternity based upon my thoughts and actions in life.

Yet I fear death, I fear death because it stops me from realizing all of my potential. I fear death because it robs me from the love and kindness of friends and family. I fear death because I will not be able to see the future fold out. Religion tells me that all this is untrue, that I should not fear death for I will be rejoined with my ancestors, I will still be able to fulfill my desires and I will someday look upon my children, my grandchildren and the children they give life to. It all seems too good to be true, like someone telling you you just won a billion dollars and the world on a platter. I am skeptical, it is my right to be skeptical and demand proof of my rewards. I demand to be certain that my efforts will pay off. For it is a fool's life living a life dedicated to obtain something which he is not certain of. I would rather live a life full of joy, love and experiences than spend my time alive as a worshipper of deities which one is not sure even exists.

"To call atheism a belief is like calling not collecting stamps a hobby."

At 6/10/08 11:53 AM, Zanoh wrote:

At 5/19/08 01:10 PM, hippl5 wrote: Oh wait, that would make you look like a crazed moron if you're the only one doing it.

Sucks to be you...

I on the other hand practice islam. The only money I pay from my pocket is to the poor and needy. I pay for nothing else but my devotion to god. Religion is a scam if it is made by faulted human logic. Scientology is one of these scams.

You also have to give up alchol and pork though. And some time every day for the timed praying.

At 6/10/08 11:57 AM, Zanoh wrote: On the subject: Atheism converting to religion is logical because if the believed in what they do, they would just think life ends in the ground.

I'm afraid you end up in the ground no matter what you belive in. If somebody becomes religious right before they die doesn't mean that they will an God and afterlife into existance.

It is said our soul leaves our body to the heavens. Those who do not believe in god (Allah in arabic) and do not worship him is damned to their own dismay.

Hah, little did you know that Odin is the one true God. Unless you repent to him on your deathbed you are damned to your own dismay.

Yes Drakim is correct, Odin is the one true God, I know it in my heart.

I mean, I know it IN MY FUCKING HEART, how can I be wrong about this? Is there any higher level of knowledge anyone could attain?

Yes.
The magic ruin tablets. They are located in my basement and invisible to all but me and anyone with a pure viking heart.