Social Security is crap!

[Kleinhans]

Why should I, knowing that in the near future (by the time i retire), have to pay Social Security taxes. Its a waste of my fucking money. The goverment was dumb to start it up. They take your money and it sits their doesnt grow or anything. let me help break it down...I would put in $100 in 2000 by the time i retire the $100 would have actually lost value so i would actually have lost money in the process. i would have liked to put all that money in 401k or sumtin.

How do you guys feel about it?

[ForkRobotik]

It's a pyramid scheme. Everyone that contributes should get rrsps in their own name for when they retire. The government probably doesn't want that though because then they couldn't pilfer it. Clinton had fixed it for 75 years before he left office, but bush quickly ruined the system when he got into power for some quick cash.

[Kleinhans]

At 5/18/08 06:27 PM, ForkRobotik wrote: It's a pyramid scheme. Everyone that contributes should get rrsps in their own name for when they retire. The government probably doesn't want that though because then they couldn't pilfer it. Clinton had fixed it for 75 years before he left office, but bush quickly ruined the system when he got into power for some quick cash.

Its not just that that pisses me off, its the fact that over time they dnt invest your money to let it grow, i use the term grow losely because it would prbly just end up staying the same actual value just look like more but inflation kind of deems the growth necessary. It really should be an optional thing

[ForkRobotik]

At 5/18/08 06:30 PM, Kleinhans wrote: Its not just that that pisses me off, its the fact that over time they dnt invest your money to let it grow, i use the term grow losely because it would prbly just end up staying the same actual value just look like more but inflation kind of deems the growth necessary. It really should be an optional thing

I agree, here in canada, we all have to put into the pot, yet when you retire, if you have any sort of wealth you don't qualify for getting any of that money back. Then again, they told us in school, that none of us would probably get anything, because it'll all be gone by the time we're aged. Fortunately i've been investing in my own rrsp's for the last 10 years :)

[Kleinhans]

I love Canada haha they are more socialist then America and thats the way i think goverment should look at things

[Proteas]

At 5/18/08 06:27 PM, ForkRobotik wrote: Clinton had fixed it for 75 years before he left office

Here's the thing, the only real way to "fix" social security is to raise the age at which you start drawing benefits. The original age was set for 65 at a time when the average lifespan was 63, so that if you actually GOT to 65 after paying in for 40 some odd years you wouldn't be around long enough to collect 40 years worth of benefits.

If it were adjusted for today's health standards, you wouldn't be able to collect until you were in your upper 70's or earlier 80's.

Problem solved.

[poxpower]

At 5/18/08 07:01 PM, Proteas wrote:

If it were adjusted for today's health standards, you wouldn't be able to collect until you were in your upper 70's or earlier 80's.

not to mention you'd have to push the age of retirement from the dream-scenario 55 to like 70 :o

[Kleinhans]

this topic is about what should be done about Social Security like dibanning is or choosing not 2 pay the tax thats what i want input on

[SEXY-FETUS]

There's not much you can do about it.
Think of it as a tax and not as an investment.

[The-evil-bucket]

Right. And how do YOU propose we support our senior community?

[Sajberhippien]

At 5/19/08 06:50 AM, The-evil-bucket wrote: Right. And how do YOU propose we support our senior community?

Support? They need no support. It's the land of possibilities, don't forget that! They'll find something out!

Oh, and if they didn't get rich, it's their own problem.

[Drakim]

Moral of this story:

People live too long. Or more precicely, become crippled too fast complare to their total age.

[Gunter45]

At 5/18/08 06:43 PM, Kleinhans wrote: I love Canada haha they are more socialist then America and thats the way i think goverment should look at things

Social security is a socialist program. Letting people invest their money as they see fit is capitalism in all its Free Market glory.

Chew on that irony for a second.

[Kleinhans]

haha yeah irony right just like how a apitilaist society has caused the poverty we know and love today and like how socialist ideas at least try to help (even though this one is complete garbage)

[Gunter45]

At 5/19/08 03:25 PM, Kleinhans wrote: haha yeah irony right just like how a apitilaist society has caused the poverty we know and love today and like how socialist ideas at least try to help (even though this one is complete garbage)

That's not irony.

Irony is unabashedly touting the benefits of radical socialism while denouncing capitalism wholesale and yet, without missing a beat, complaining about how the government isn't letting you spend your money on investments.

You obviously don't have any comprehension of global economics so shut up. You're not a unique little flower for pretending that Socialism is an economic panacea. Go wear that Che Guevara T-shirt you bought online and sip some Jamba Juice at the mall with your friends who are just as stupid and deluded as you are.

[Kleinhans]

fucking capitialist pig. haha i bet your little trickle down theory is where its at eh? mayb you like the rise in gas prices for no reason at all (the war isnt why) or possibly you enjoy the suffering of the mass as the few sit around with so much money the can afford multi million dollar houses and numerous amounts of cars. or how about seperation of classes do enjoy watching the upper echelon of america ridicule the hungry and poor because they cant make a sizeable living off of their jobs. and by the way not one of my friends is a socialist/communist like me haha

[CaptainChip]

Because you're communist, I would just like to say that communism causes poverty and sometimes mass murder.

[Kleinhans]

Russian Communism (aka dictartor communism) causes poverty and murder. haha your ignorant. true communism has no need for money every thing is produced as needed. so if my family needed food id go to a center and collect what i need and give what i can it has no need for excess items

[CaptainChip]

At 5/19/08 05:11 PM, Kleinhans wrote: Russian Communism (aka dictartor communism) causes poverty and murder. haha your ignorant. true communism has no need for money every thing is produced as needed. so if my family needed food id go to a center and collect what i need and give what i can it has no need for excess items

Wow... You don't even know about the things you brag about.

1. Where can I find other types of communism?

2. Yes, it needs money. How do you think they get things outside the country?

3. There will be times where there's too less of an item.

[Kleinhans]

At 5/19/08 05:19 PM, CaptainChip wrote:

Wow... You don't even know about the things you brag about.

1. Where can I find other types of communism?

http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC074131/Different %20types%20of%20Communism.html
a list of forms of communism

2. Yes, it needs money. How do you think they get things outside the country?

a true communism is a utopia and it is globally spread so everyone owns everything and it is just moved 2 where its needed

3. There will be times where there's too less of an item.

and of course there are elements where nature is a factor but thats inevitable no matter what so you can simply live with out it for a while or find a means to produce it

[CaptainChip]

At 5/19/08 05:28 PM, Kleinhans wrote:

At 5/19/08 05:19 PM, CaptainChip wrote:

Wow... You don't even know about the things you brag about.

1. Where can I find other types of communism?

http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC074131/Different %20types%20of%20Communism.html
a list of forms of communism

OK, which is the "True" Communism?

2. Yes, it needs money. How do you think they get things outside the country?

a true communism is a utopia and it is globally spread so everyone owns everything and it is just moved 2 where its needed

No, it's not a utopia. It still needs money and it isn't globally spread.

3. There will be times where there's too less of an item.

and of course there are elements where nature is a factor but thats inevitable no matter what so you can simply live with out it for a while or find a means to produce it

But that's why there's over stock, so you don't have to do either of those.

[Gunter45]

At 5/19/08 05:03 PM, Kleinhans wrote: fucking capitialist pig. haha i bet your little trickle down theory is where its at eh? mayb you like the rise in gas prices for no reason at all (the war isnt why) or possibly you enjoy the suffering of the mass as the few sit around with so much money the can afford multi million dollar houses and numerous amounts of cars. or how about seperation of classes do enjoy watching the upper echelon of america ridicule the hungry and poor because they cant make a sizeable living off of their jobs.

Funny how nothing I said implies that at all. I was only talking about how your stance on social security was ironic, given the deluded 13-year-old socialist nonsense your incontinent mouth was spewing off.

and by the way not one of my friends is a socialist/communist like me haha

I don't know whether to be completely taken aback by your lack of friends or the fact that you even manage to isolate yourself from the warm conformity of the junior high school pseudo-Marxists.

[Christopherr]

It doesn't sit there at all. It is spent. However, it is spent poorly.

Congress has their own social security program, which is successful and growing. The way they get the funds to grow is by investing the money paid into the program, rather than just spending it.

[Christopherr]

At 5/19/08 05:11 PM, Kleinhans wrote: Russian Communism (aka dictartor communism) causes poverty and murder. haha your ignorant. true communism has no need for money every thing is produced as needed. so if my family needed food id go to a center and collect what i need and give what i can it has no need for excess items

True communism doesn't exist and never will exist. When you have many millions of people who are all at the same level with no leader (pure communism rejects leaders), what ends up happening is a group taking control and assuming a higher power than the others. This happens because people who work harder expect to be paid more. For example, I have gone through 10 years of school after high school to become a plastic surgeon, and I damn well better get paid more than the lady who cleans toilets at the 7-11.

As other users stated, you're touting the same old bag of crap that the older people here have all seen before.

Sure, pure communism would be successful, if we were bees and not humans.

[Kleinhans]

At 5/19/08 07:06 PM, Christopherr wrote: Sure, pure communism would be successful, if we were bees and not humans.

but but but....bees have queens haha that a leader

[Christopherr]

At 5/19/08 10:36 PM, Kleinhans wrote:

At 5/19/08 07:06 PM, Christopherr wrote: Sure, pure communism would be successful, if we were bees and not humans.

but but but....bees have queens haha that a leader

Ehhh, not quite. The queen is a reproducer rather than a leader, considering that she has no direct control over the hive. It's truly a misleading name.

Fail.

[Kleinhans]

haha we can sit here all day arguing about bees and birds and could end up talking about bark but in the end im gunna be right hahaha if we were bees we would get no where in life if we were human we still would get no were in life. we are still viewing the age old struggle of the classes. you would probably have a completely different story if you were a poor person or of a different economic status. sure you would expect to get paid more as surgeon because you have been brought up where money means everything. a true communism has no need for money hence people would not want to expect to be paid more. and you do a job that is best fitting to your personal standards. if a person is good in science they are a scientist if a person is handy with wood and tools they are a carpenter and if a person has no skills (such as the mentally handicapped) they do janitorial services. and they dont work for money they work to live. to keep the human race going

[Christopherr]

At 5/19/08 11:02 PM, Kleinhans wrote: haha we can sit here all day arguing about bees and birds and could end up talking about bark but in the end im gunna be right hahaha if we were bees we would get no where in life if we were human we still would get no were in life. we are still viewing the age old struggle of the classes. you would probably have a completely different story if you were a poor person or of a different economic status. sure you would expect to get paid more as surgeon because you have been brought up where money means everything. a true communism has no need for money hence people would not want to expect to be paid more. and you do a job that is best fitting to your personal standards. if a person is good in science they are a scientist if a person is handy with wood and tools they are a carpenter and if a person has no skills (such as the mentally handicapped) they do janitorial services. and they dont work for money they work to live. to keep the human race going

Yeah, and I told you that it is merely a theoretical form of government and does not work out ideally. We honestly don't care what your ideal government is, because it is impossible to achieve. So get your head out of the clouds and find a political philosophy that doesn't make any educated person cringe.

You replied with a retarded attempt to tell me the bees in my analogy were not truly communistic.

[ThePretenders]

Social security is doomed to fail anyway. The pensions bomb will expolde in 50 years time. It's a pyramid scheme because there aren't enough suckers to support the baby boomers. What industrial nations have to do is:

1) Start breeding. Births per women are lower than 2.1, is the replacement rate to sustain the population and out all industrial nations, the U.S. has roughly 2.1 births per women whilst France has 2 per woman, still better than Germany, which has 1.4 per women, and its population is falling.

2) Allow the government to purchase securites with the money, so that the money pot will grow, like pension funds.

The government will keep on raising contributions and slashing entitlements and this will be a source of potential political conflict, since the pensioner will try to protect their savings and workers will balk at paying more taxes. I suggest you get a pension plan because you'll get a higher rate of return than state pensions.

[Slizor]

Can we all just agree to ignore Kleinhans? Because I really want to reply to some of the points made against him, but don't want in any way to help the idiot - it's not fair!