Syria

[saxytitan]

Most of you probably know about Israe' dropping bombs in Syrian Terrorist camps the last few days, but most people don't realize how big this really is. For one thing, all that needs to happen for a massive war to break loose is for Syria to retaliate. Instantly, all the middle-eastern, mostly muslim countries will side with Syria, leaving Israel stuck in a huge corner.
But who can really blame Israel for reacting the way they did. Everyday, suicide bombers are killing innocent people in the name of their God (who is the same god who preaches good in Christianity and Judiasm) in Isreal, leaving countless dead. Despite Israe's plees to Palestinian and Jihad Terrorist organizations, blood is continuing to shed. I don't understand how a country could allow camps to train suicide bombers, or even not realize their locations when they are in their borders! So is retaliating by bombing inside another country going to far? Well, we did the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Any thoughts? I just thought this was a topic that deserved some discussion.
Peace out.

[Slizor]

God (who is the same god who preaches good in Christianity and Judiasm)

Oh please, countless thousands have been killed in the name of Christ.

Despite Israe's plees to Palestinian and Jihad Terrorist organizations, blood is continuing to shed.

Their pleas? What about their "revenge" bombings?

I just thought this was a topic that deserved some discussion.

It is a topic for discussion and I was saddened to not see a topic about this, but two or three about the most recent suicide bombings.

Isn't it illegal to attack another country without making a formal decleration of war?

[gerbilfromhellll]

it isn't illegal to attack another country without declaring war on them. if it was, the iraq 'war' would've been illegal.

but anyways, i KNOW that this sounds cynical, but honestly, i wish the inevitable war had happened sooner. because it WAS inevitable, and had it happened sooner, less people would've died.

oh, and if all the middle eastern countries banded against israel, israel would crush every single one of them. relativelly quickly at that.

[Sophia-7]

Islam wants to regain the Territories they once ruled over from the Ottoman period, that coupled with the Jihad of eliminating the infidels...

Do we really not want to target them now and let them get WMD ?

Russia needs Iranian oil, so Iran may end up with WMD in exchange.This is what the World should be worried about.(Bush had better share the spoils of Iraq before it's too late).

I know which side i would like to live under and it doesn't involve giving up my playstation.

[JudgeDredd]

At 10/7/03 07:26 PM, gerbilfromhellll wrote: it isn't illegal to attack another country without declaring war on them. if it was, the iraq 'war' would've been illegal.

THE IRAQ WAR WAS ILLEGAL!! (the UN charter says so)

oh, and if all the middle eastern countries banded against israel, israel would crush every single one of them. relativelly quickly at that.

because Israel has tons of Nukes and other WMD, and America is playing backup.

[crimson-clover666]

Oh please, Isreal could take on the whole arab world with no problem.

And Syria had this coming to them, you don't go to war with a country, lose to them, and then think that 30 years of being an asshole to them is going to make them like you. You have to make an effort, like Egypt did.

And as for the above post, Isreal only has a very small number of ICBM's, and it's nuke count is nothing to be proud of. I would go as far to say Iran has more then them, I know for sure Pakistan does. US only gives them 3 billion a year, and the US would not sell them nukes, it doesn't even make sense to do so.

If this whole Mideast thing thing has taught us anything, it's don't mess with Jews.

[darthknight878176]

The UN charter doesn't mean shit. The terrorist nations (Syria, Libya, Etc.) are on the goddamn councils. Not to mention the European bastards never support Israel. The only true supporters Israel has are the US and Australia. Nobody else gives a fuck about Israel. And it isn't fair. I would love to see Israel wipe Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Libya and any other nation that messes with them off the face of the map. They have put up with enough shit over the past 2500 years. They can finally defend themselves and I say that we not only let them, but we help them. I'm glad to see that Bush was a little more supportive of the Syrian strike than I expected. He's still a jackass, but at least there is a glimer of common sense in him.

[gerbilfromhellll]

"THE IRAQ WAR WAS ILLEGAL!! (the UN charter says so)"

you learn something ever day i guess..... wow, that really is just pathetic. the war over the UN resolution is illegal under the UN charter *rolls eyes*

"because Israel has tons of Nukes and other WMD, and America is playing backup."

no, because israel has one of (if not THE) best TRAINED military in the world (not the best, the best trained)

[Furious-Angel]

At 10/7/03 10:48 PM, crimson_clover666 wrote: If this whole Mideast thing thing has taught us anything, it's don't mess with Jews.

You have a point there. In the ancient world the Jews were one of the gratest fighting nations.

[ULTRAnamic]

You have a point there. In the ancient world the Jews were one of the gratest fighting nations.

I thought in the aceint world, Jews were kept as slaves in Egypt, and once they did escape, their land was invaded loads of times by there persians,romans,greeks,arabs, etc. :s

[Furious-Angel]

At 10/8/03 10:09 AM, ULTRAnamic wrote: I thought in the aceint world, Jews were kept as slaves in Egypt, and once they did escape, their land was invaded loads of times by there persians,romans,greeks,arabs, etc. :s

Yeah, they were conquered- but it was only in the late aceint world. In the time of Empires like Babylon, Assyria, and Aram- Israel was a force that couldn't be ignored. Of corse that the Jews had no chance with the new breed of Empires- like Persia, Greece and Roma. But the Jews kiked the Greeks away in some point of History- and then there was agian Jewish land for 100 years period. Then the Romans conquered the land and the Jews made the greatest revolt in the history of Rome. They paralyzed almost half of the Roman armey and when they lost the Roman emperor was so furious that he expeled them, destroyed the temple and changed the name of the land to "Palestine".

I hope that it wasn't too boring...

[Vero993]

At 10/7/03 11:13 PM, darthknight878176 wrote: The UN charter doesn't mean shit. The terrorist nations (Syria, Libya, Etc.) are on the goddamn councils. Not to mention the European bastards never support Israel. The only true supporters Israel has are the US and Australia. Nobody else gives a fuck about Israel.

They can finally defend themselves and I say that we not only let them, but we help them.

First, Those countries are only known as "Terrorist" countries because the United States President declared them to be, in his all-powerful wisdom.
Second, the reason the "European Bastards" don't support the country is Israel's own history. RE: the six days war, 1967.
If Britain and the United States hadn't stepped in in 1948 and said, "Let's create a Jewish Homeland on territory we took from the Muslims," the middle east wouldn't be having have the problems it has today.
True, there would still be the general run-of-the-mill tensions caused by having the holiest of holy lands of three major world religions located in the same damn place, but the Palestinians, at least, wouldn't have such a greivance.
Third, military service is compulsory in Israel. They can defend themselves, and don't need the already over-budget, overextended farm boys from arkansas and oklahoma helping them out.
and finally, did anyone notice in the official statement from israel, the country said it would "Seek out terrorists whereever they may be" or something to that effect. Does that sound familiar to anyone else?

[gerbilfromhellll]

"The UN charter doesn't mean shit."

from that one line i can infer that your post will have absolutelly no intelligent comments in it. let's see if i'm right shall we?

"The terrorist nations (Syria, Libya, Etc.)"

sorry, not intelligent. you can't classify a nation as a terrorist nation, unless the government activelly participates in and publicly admits to participating in terrorism

"are on the goddamn councils"

and they have basically no voice on them

"Not to mention the European bastards never support Israel"

perhaps because the 'european bastards' want to have peace instead of us gun-toting americans who want a more 'shoot first and take prisoners later' mentality

"The only true supporters Israel has are the US and Australia"

does that make those other countries somehow 'bad'? they're entitled to their opinions. oh, and the UK supports israel i believe

"Nobody else gives a fuck about Israel"

it's not that they don't care about israel, it's that they'd rather see peace than more bloodshed. a bit idealistic, but still, it's not like they don't care about israel

"And it isn't fair"

the world's not fair. get used to it

"I would love to see Israel wipe Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Libya and any other nation that messes with them off the face of the map"

and i would love to care what you think or even think that it's semi-intelligent and not just warmongering 'kill the arabs'-type comments. unfortunatelly, with comments like that, i can't.

"They have put up with enough shit over the past 2500 years"

yes and the last 2400 years of 'shit' came from empires and countries that no longer exist. that's plenty revenge for me

"They can finally defend themselves"

they've been able to defend themselves since israel was founded (that would be 50 years ago, not 3000 years ago)

"and I say that we not only let them, but we help them"

why am i not suprised you want the US to invade ANOTHER country?

"I'm glad to see that Bush was a little more supportive of the Syrian strike than I expected"

ah yes, our hypocritical president. the guy who says he will make sure that the 'road map to peace' is followed, and then the instant the polls tell him that he'd lose votes by not supporting israel, he comes out and gives them a green light to 'stop terror by any means necessary' (i.e. invade syria if you want; we won't care)

"He's still a jackass, but at least there is a glimer of common sense in him."

he has plenty of common sense. if you're going to bash bush, at least make your insults correct (and there's plenty of true stuff to insult him about)

[darthknight878176]

You got to be shittin me. Syria sponsors Islamic Jihad and just about every other anti-Israel organization in the middle-east openly. Syria also controls Lebanon, so they are a terrorist state too. And by the admitting remark, did you mean kind of like how Quadaffi admitted to funding the terrorists that blew up the Pan Am flight? Give me a fucking break. Libya heads the council on human rights, so the no real voice comment is bullshit too. The european bastards don't disagree with Israel because they want peace. It's because they have big money oil deals with every questionable govt. in the region. And don't even start the racist bullshit either. I'm an incredibly tolerant person. I don't want them bombed because they are Muslim. It's real easy to play the race/sexuality/religion card isn't it? Israel couldn't defend themselves from the very start either. They were nearly wiped out within the first year, if it wasn't for US supplies. The UK kind of supports Israel, though not nearly as much as Australia and the US, and did chastsize the Israeli govt. for the raid in Syria. And I fucking know when Israel was founded.

Military service is cumpulsory because it has a small population, and is surrounded by millions who want to destroy it. They have to have a large military, ratio wise, so that they can defend themselves.

P.S. The UN charter doesn't mean shit. They can't and don't back it up. The only time they have ever backed it up was during Korea. This is why the UN is useless. It has no teeth.

[Vero993]

I am, in fact, not "shittin" you or anybody. Unlike some on this post, I don't need to use profanity to make a point.
1. Last time I checked, Lebanon was a sovreign state, not under the control of anyone other than perhaps their own government, which is headed by president Emile Lahoud, a Maronite Christian.
2. No one started any racist anything until you brought it up in your last post.
3. Israelis, other than the British/American drive for a Jewish homeland, have no real claim to the land they now occupy, be it in Bethlehem, The West Bank or the Gaza Strip.
4. Israel is an aggressive nation, following the U.S. Policy of bomb people first, ask questions later. That's why military service is compulsory.
5. Of course the U.N. Charter doesn't mean anything; the U.S. makes a point of violating it every chance it gets.
Just because you're an American doesn't mean you're right.

[Furious-Angel]

At 10/9/03 10:35 AM, Vero993 wrote: 1. Last time I checked, Lebanon was a sovreign state, not under the control of anyone other than perhaps their own government, which is headed by president Emile Lahoud, a Maronite Christian.

Lebanon is a country that the Hizbullah teror organization regarded as a political party. What can I say, very frendly country- they shouting us every time that they can.

3. Israelis, other than the British/American drive for a Jewish homeland, have no real claim to the land they now occupy, be it in Bethlehem, The West Bank or the Gaza Strip.

A claim? Jewish majority in the country is good enough for you?

4. Israel is an aggressive nation

Oh, we're aggressive? You right, all the Arab countries are so "peaceful"- and only Israel is "agressive" and "bad". What can I say, if you living between aggressive countries that want you dead- it's unavoidable to became bit aggressive too.

Question: did a restaurant ever blowed up near your house? if not, you can't know how I feel.

5. Of course the U.N. Charter doesn't mean anything; the U.S. makes a point of violating it every chance it gets.

In the UN there is a third world counties majority- what gives them the power to do what ever they want. The UN isn't an ultimative judge.

[gerbilfromhellll]

"I am, in fact, not "shittin" you or anybody. Unlike some on this post, I don't need to use profanity to make a point."

and, and unlike you, some of us aren't condescending pricks about swearing

"1. Last time I checked, Lebanon was a sovreign state, not under the control of anyone other than perhaps their own government"

yep, you're right on that one

"which is headed by president Emile Lahoud, a Maronite Christian."

why did you need to point out that he was christian? does that make him in any way better or worse than if he were muslim or jewish? of course not. that part really wasn't needed

"2. No one started any racist anything until you brought it up in your last post."

no comment cause i haven't read the whole thread yet. you may be right, you may be wrong, i'll find out after i post this

"3. Israelis, other than the British/American drive for a Jewish homeland, have no real claim to the land they now occupy, be it in Bethlehem, The West Bank or the Gaza Strip."

well, although you are TECHNICALLY right in what you said, since the british had control over the land which now contains israel at the time that they made the jewish state, in this situation, their decision to make a jewish state is theirs to make (this means that the israelis have a perfectly good claim to the land which they occupy)

"4. Israel is an aggressive nation"

it's learned that pacifistic idealism just doesn't work when you're surrounded by countries that want you dead

"following the U.S. Policy of bomb people first, ask questions later"

now THAT'S total bull. ever notice that in EVERY report of an israeli-counter bombing, their targets are always carefully chosen leaders of terrorist groups?

"That's why military service is compulsory."

no, military service is compulsory so that the israelis can defend themselves when the inevitable war happens

"5. Of course the U.N. Charter doesn't mean anything"

quite possibly THE dumbest statement i've heard all day. i wonder what your reasons are

"the U.S. makes a point of violating it every chance it gets"

so you should do whatever the US does just because it's us that's doing it (breaking the UN charter)?

"Just because you're an American doesn't mean you're right"

yes, but it doesn't mean he's wrong either. considering that this debate is simply a matter of opinion on policy, NO one is wrong or right

[gerbilfromhellll]

"You got to be shittin me"

too stupid to deserve a response

"Syria sponsors Islamic Jihad and just about every other anti-Israel organization in the middle-east openly"

well, not openly. but it does support them

"Syria also controls Lebanon, so they are a terrorist state too"

syria doesn't control lebanon. what the hell are you talking about?

"And by the admitting remark, did you mean kind of like how Quadaffi admitted to funding the terrorists that blew up the Pan Am flight?"

haven't read his post, so i can't comment on this one

"Give me a fucking break."

once again, too stupid and pointless to deserve a reply

"Libya heads the council on human rights, so the no real voice comment is bullshit too"

don't know what you're talking about (once again, because i haven't read the thread yet) so once again i can't comment on that

"The european bastards don't disagree with Israel because they want peace"

yes it is

"It's because they have big money oil deals with every questionable govt in the region"

just like the US. and WE don't want peace. so, wouldn't that logically mean that that ISN'T the reason that the europeans want disagree with israel? y'know, because they can get just as much oil by siding with the US? so, maybe, just maybe, they actually WANT peace? (a bit idealistic on their part, i'll admit, but still a perfectly valid opinion)

"And don't even start the racist bullshit either. I'm an incredibly tolerant person"

from reading your posts in other threads, i've gotta say: that's bull. you aren't tolerant of the french as a people. you aren't tolerant of europeans in general. you aren't tolerant of all middle eastern countries besides israel. you're not tolerant of anyone who opposes the iraq war. you're not a very tolerant person

"I don't want them bombed because they are Muslim"

good for you

"It's real easy to play the race/sexuality/religion card isn't it?"

if it's being played on you, it definitelly is

"Israel couldn't defend themselves from the very start either"

they won a (or is it two) war against lebanon, syria, jordan, egypt, and probably one or two other countries i'm forgetting. that shows they're plenty able to defend themselves

"They were nearly wiped out within the first year, if it wasn't for US supplies."

not really. they threatened to nuke their enemies. pretty good strategy in my book. and at least, unlike the US, they never actually followed through on that threat

"The UK kind of supports Israel, though not nearly as much as Australia and the US, and did chastsize the Israeli govt. for the raid in Syria."

so? they've got every right to

"And I fucking know when Israel was founded."

ok. when was it founded then?

"Military service is cumpulsory because it has a small population, and is surrounded by millions who want to destroy it"

not everyone in those countries wants to destroy israel

"They have to have a large military, ratio wise, so that they can defend themselves"

well DUH.

"P.S. The UN charter doesn't mean shit"

that's only because people like the US ignore it. which we shouldn't

"They can't and don't back it up. The only time they have ever backed it up was during Korea. This is why the UN is useless. It has no teeth."

it's teeth are the countries behind it. and, once the EU becomes one unified country, it'll have a pretty big set of teeth.

[karasz]

russia doesnt need iranian oil...

they have vast amounts of oil... at one point when the prices were high it was the sole reason their economy wasnt dead during the soviet years...

its a multi-billion dollar industry that they have over there, and putin has a nice lil slice of it...

[karasz]

At 10/7/03 07:26 PM, gerbilfromhellll wrote: it isn't illegal to attack another country without declaring war on them. if it was, the iraq 'war' would've been illegal.

THE IRAQ WAR WAS ILLEGAL!! (the UN charter says so)

it was legal... the US felt threatened... being legal doesnt make it right... the right to defend ones self from threats is ok in international law...

but yes it wasnt right

[karasz]

quick question for everyone... has anyone here taken international relations courses?

that and this is a pointless debate most people are talking with emotion and you cant do that or it turns into a shouting match.

and yes syria does control lebanon, maybe not directly but the ties are there and what syria wants lebanon does...

although i am still of the belief that the syrian president is just to weak a figure to take the reins of his country. when his father died a year or two ago, he wasnt ready to take over. so i think syria would actually be better off if the international community somehow helped him consolidate power

[JoS]

I took geo politics, international law and economics in high school, and will be going to university for international development studies in the fall, if that counts.

[darthknight878176]

Syria occupies over three quarters of lebanon. That counts as controlling a country to me. And seeing as how you know me only from my posts, the racism remark doesn't hold much ground does it? You took my comments, that were about the countries govts., and applied them to it's people. I know that every country, group, etc. has the same ratio of idiots to geniuses to the people in between. Yeah, they threatened nuclear attacks, but they were still almost wiped out. Israel was founded in 1948. The EU has nothing to do with the UN having teeth. The EU doesn't control the UN. The UN has to back up their resolutions (even those against the US and Israel) to gain any respect. I appreciate you support against Vero though. That was unexpected. Also, most of the passages you responded to from my post were responses to other posts, just like this one.

[rubiksphere]

Really Israel is just doing what bush wants to. he...he

[JoS]

Exactly, its really no different then BUsh in Iraq and Afganistan, but Bush doesnt think its a good idea for isreal to do it. Go figure.