if i were sent to iraq

[HogWashSoup]

If i were in the military and sent to iraq, i would be in fully paranoid. Anyone that wasnt america, i would see as an possible enemy.

I would hope I live another day, and worried that the next day could be my last.

If i was in a car with others in the open, and they had music on, i would turn it off. No distractions at all. When out in the open, you need to look everywhere.

I would never let my gaurd down. I would sleep with my gun in my arms.

I would always keep at least one eye on alert 24/7.

If meeting with other iraqies that are "friends" i would always have my gun ready to shot if hey tryed to pull anything.

Self Preservation is number one on my list. Number two is helping my fellow soldiers. But if it comes down to ether me or them, i choose me. I will do a lot of things for them, but i wont die for them. Like throwing myself onto a grenade to save them, i would run as fast as i could away from the grenade. If you see a grende, you get the hell out.

and the whole "once a marine always a marine." seems weird. its only a job, you dont go "once a paperboy always a paperboy. I would after my serving time is over would hang up my uniform and close that chapter. I would no longer be a marien or any other military person, i would have served in the military but i would not stay as a military person.

I would mainly go into the serice for the benifits and the respect.

but..im never going to serve because as i said, if i would go to iraq, i would be in a constant state of fear.

[Drakim]

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: stuff

Good thing that terrorist attacks can't happen on american soil, so you'll be safe once you get home...oh wait

[HogWashSoup]

At 5/13/08 04:46 AM, Drakim wrote:

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: stuff

Good thing that terrorist attacks can't happen on american soil, so you'll be safe once you get home...oh wait

Oh shut up. If i went to Iraq, i would have a nervious breakdown because i would see anyone as a threat that wasnt an american.

Its not paranoia if people are after to kill you.

It would be best if i didnt join because I would have a hard time following orders if it puts me in danger.

If i lost an arm, my life wont be the same. And if anyone even saysb "Well at least you helped your country" I'll yell and say "America has not given me my hand back!!!!!"

But if i had to go, i would make sure that I have everything set, even down to funeral plans. To not set for your death just incase would be stupid.

[Drakim]

At 5/13/08 04:54 AM, HogWashSoup wrote:

At 5/13/08 04:46 AM, Drakim wrote:

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: stuff

Good thing that terrorist attacks can't happen on american soil, so you'll be safe once you get home...oh wait

Oh shut up. If i went to Iraq, i would have a nervious breakdown because i would see anyone as a threat that wasnt an american.

Its not paranoia if people are after to kill you.

Yeah, but, the thing is. These people don't wish to kill you any less just because you are on american soil. Sure, you might be a longer distance from them, and safer, but never completely safe.

It would be best if i didnt join because I would have a hard time following orders if it puts me in danger.

If i lost an arm, my life wont be the same. And if anyone even saysb "Well at least you helped your country" I'll yell and say "America has not given me my hand back!!!!!"

If you loose your arm in America instead of Iraq, it makes no diffrence. Your life will be changed just as much.

But if i had to go, i would make sure that I have everything set, even down to funeral plans. To not set for your death just incase would be stupid.

You should problaby do this even when you are home. Terrroist attacks are not limited to Iraq.

Be afraid~

[HogWashSoup]

At 5/13/08 04:56 AM, Drakim wrote:

Yeah, but, the thing is. These people don't wish to kill you any less just because you are on american soil. Sure, you might be a longer distance from them, and safer, but never completely safe.

I am much safer in my home away from terrorists then in their home area. Yeah, the chances are still there, which is why if i see an arabic person, i start to go away from them. I dont go into the same building that an arabic is in. I dont speak to them, i dont look at them, i dont trust them.

If you loose your arm in America instead of Iraq, it makes no diffrence. Your life will be changed just as much.

I was talking about the idoits who say i should be thankful that i served the military and that an arm loss is a small sacrifice. That thinking is the same thinking that the deaths are a small sacrifice and we shouldnt care or morn them but embrace their deaths.

1 death is one too many,

You should problaby do this even when you are home. Terrroist attacks are not limited to Iraq.

Oh i do. At any moment i could be killed in a car accident, die of heart failure.
Though to go out and think you will come back saftly is ok, though going and saying you know you will be ok and not preparing is stupid.

[Drakim]

At 5/13/08 05:11 AM, HogWashSoup wrote:

At 5/13/08 04:56 AM, Drakim wrote:

Yeah, but, the thing is. These people don't wish to kill you any less just because you are on american soil. Sure, you might be a longer distance from them, and safer, but never completely safe.

I am much safer in my home away from terrorists then in their home area. Yeah, the chances are still there, which is why if i see an arabic person, i start to go away from them. I dont go into the same building that an arabic is in. I dont speak to them, i dont look at them, i dont trust them.

Actually, only 15% of all Muslims are arabs.
Source

So don't think you can trust somebody just because they are not arabic. You should be careful around all people. It's so easy to hide a knife or some white powder. One mistake, and your life is cripped if you are lucky enough to survive.

If you loose your arm in America instead of Iraq, it makes no diffrence. Your life will be changed just as much.

I was talking about the idoits who say i should be thankful that i served the military and that an arm loss is a small sacrifice. That thinking is the same thinking that the deaths are a small sacrifice and we shouldnt care or morn them but embrace their deaths.

1 death is one too many,

Maybe we should use non-human weapons, like bombs and nukes instead of soldiers. That way, nobody but the enemy has to die.

You should problaby do this even when you are home. Terrroist attacks are not limited to Iraq.

Oh i do. At any moment i could be killed in a car accident, die of heart failure.
Though to go out and think you will come back saftly is ok, though going and saying you know you will be ok and not preparing is stupid.

Life insurance is great. It can really help your loved ones so they don't have to deal with lack of money if you die (which is the last thing you want to deal with when you are morning the death of somebody close)

cannot..resist..

[Sajberhippien]

At 5/13/08 05:11 AM, HogWashSoup wrote:

At 5/13/08 04:56 AM, Drakim wrote:

Yeah, but, the thing is. These people don't wish to kill you any less just because you are on american soil. Sure, you might be a longer distance from them, and safer, but never completely safe.

I am much safer in my home away from terrorists then in their home area. Yeah, the chances are still there, which is why if i see an arabic person, i start to go away from them. I dont go into the same building that an arabic is in. I dont speak to them, i dont look at them, i dont trust them.

I'm not sure if you're sarcastic about the state of fear that your country currently has, but I assume you are serious. There are somewhere between 350 and 420 millions of arabs. How many wants you dead?

I'd say the risk of you getting killed by a caucasian or black are many, many times bigger than getting killed by an arab in the US. The risk of being overrun by a bulldozer or stung to death by wasps are probably also bigger.

[Drakim]

No, Sajberhippien, don't ruin it, I was having so much fun D:

Don't listen to him. You have to be afraid. Constantly afraid.

[bcdemon]

Considering the education parameters your military has as prerequisites for service, I don't think you have to worry about going to Iraq.

[Gunter45]

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: Anyone that wasnt america, i would see as an possible enemy.

I am America (and so can you).

[TheMason]

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: and the whole "once a marine always a marine." seems weird. its only a job, you dont go "once a paperboy always a paperboy. I would after my serving time is over would hang up my uniform and close that chapter. I would no longer be a marien or any other military person, i would have served in the military but i would not stay as a military person.

Military service changes a person. It is not only a job, and that is not something you can understand without experiencing it for yourself. In fact I feel sorry for people who will never experience this for themselves...

[TheMason]

At 5/13/08 10:17 AM, bcdemon wrote: Considering the education parameters your military has as prerequisites for service, I don't think you have to worry about going to Iraq.

The USMC and Army have relaxed these significantly...

[SolInvictus]

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: but..im never going to serve because as i said, if i would go to iraq, i would be in a constant state of fear.

you would also never serve because you sound mentally unfit.

[CaptainChip]

I see the OP lives up to his name...

[TheMason]

At 5/13/08 03:19 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: but..im never going to serve because as i said, if i would go to iraq, i would be in a constant state of fear.

you would also never serve because you sound mentally unfit.

HogWash has got me thinking. I don't think he deserves to be insulted. In fact he's being honest and offering us a clue on the direction our country has taken. Honor and duty are just words what that kids like him don't understand because he has not been taught to value them.

Yes he comes across as a coward. But it is because our society is oriented to value cowardice as a virtue and to eschew self-sacrifice. Look at the Battle of Mogadishu. Clinton should have gone on TV and celebrated the achievement of Task Force Ranger and honored the fallen for their bravery and theier unit's skill in battle. Instead he declared victory a defeat and pulled us out of Somalia...making their deaths meaningless.

As for his verbal abilitiy; I have served with many fine, skilled young people who cannot write. This is actually a poor basis to judge a potential recruit's fitness to serve.

[SolInvictus]

At 5/13/08 03:46 PM, TheMason wrote: Yes he comes across as a coward.

theres still a difference between legitimate fear and unbriddled paranoia.

But it is because our society is oriented to value cowardice as a virtue and to eschew self-sacrifice. Look at the Battle of Mogadishu. Clinton should have gone on TV and celebrated the achievement of Task Force Ranger and honored the fallen for their bravery and theier unit's skill in battle. Instead he declared victory a defeat and pulled us out of Somalia...making their deaths meaningless.

i think part of the reason is that we have come so far technologically that we expect death to no longer be a major part of armed conflict. it may sound cruel but the old idea that soldiers are meant to die is still true to a certain degree. many things can't be achieved without great risk of death, and that is why in past conflicts, such as Somalia and Kosovo, many objectives were only half done if at all.
now its not all bad. a society that is unwilling to let its soldiers get killed is a society against war, which is generally a good thing. but until we can get past armed conflicts (or we start fighting with robots) risking the lives of soldiers cannot be avoided.

[TheMason]

At 5/13/08 05:06 PM, SolInvictus wrote:
i...many things can't be achieved without great risk of death, and that is why in past conflicts, such as Somalia and Kosovo, many objectives were only half done if at all.

I think you actually demonstrate what I'm talking about here. Somalia was left half done even though we were making progress. Yet there is an idea that we lost militarily...while we only lost politically (when we didn't have to).

[uhnoesanoob]

If I were sent to Iraq, I would be very jumpy, but at least I'd have my friends by me. But I plan on doing law, cause I am not as brave as the boys in Iraq are.

[troubles1]

At 5/13/08 04:54 AM, HogWashSoup wrote:

At 5/13/08 04:46 AM, Drakim wrote:

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: stuff

Good thing that terrorist attacks can't happen on american soil, so you'll be safe once you get home...oh wait

Oh shut up. If i went to Iraq, i would have a nervious breakdown because i would see anyone as a threat that wasnt an american.

that is because you are a pussy and do not know what it means to have a comradeship, to know the person next to you is afraid but will not leave the fight because turning his back on his friends is worse than death. get a backbone..

[Joodah]

At 5/13/08 04:25 AM, HogWashSoup wrote: If i were in the military and sent to iraq, i would be in fully paranoid. Anyone that wasnt america, i would see as an possible enemy.

yeah, that's natural, at least for a while.

I would hope I live another day, and worried that the next day could be my last.

...it's a lot safer over there than you think.

If i was in a car with others in the open, and they had music on, i would turn it off. No distractions at all. When out in the open, you need to look everywhere.

I would never let my gaurd down. I would sleep with my gun in my arms.

rifle.

I would always keep at least one eye on alert 24/7.

If meeting with other iraqies that are "friends" i would always have my gun ready to shot if hey tryed to pull anything.

the people who ARE over there now know what they're doing, 'cause they've been there for a while. so, they probably know who's a friendly and who isn't.

Self Preservation is number one on my list. Number two is helping my fellow soldiers. But if it comes down to ether me or them, i choose me. I will do a lot of things for them, but i wont die for them. Like throwing myself onto a grenade to save them, i would run as fast as i could away from the grenade. If you see a grende, you get the hell out.

that's very...selfless

and the whole "once a marine always a marine." seems weird. its only a job, you dont go "once a paperboy always a paperboy. I would after my serving time is over would hang up my uniform and close that chapter. I would no longer be a marien or any other military person, i would have served in the military but i would not stay as a military person.

the military changes almost everything about you, and how you do things. For Marines, they have EARNED the right to the title, and so they will take it wherever they go. Others who have eraned the title are like brothers. It's not like a regular job.

I would mainly go into the serice for the benifits and the respect.

but..im never going to serve because as i said, if i would go to iraq, i would be in a constant state of fear.

If you truly represnt the average American today, then God help us. but thank you for your statement, it lets me know what traits to avoid when helping out my recruiter.

[Imperator]

At 5/13/08 03:46 PM, TheMason wrote: Yes he comes across as a coward. But it is because our society is oriented to value cowardice as a virtue and to eschew self-sacrifice.

I disagree. I think our society is still oriented towards those goals, but warfare has focused away from tales of epic heroism, or at least it always does so in the present. War has become more personal and less glamorous, which means there are simply fewer examples of combat heroism.

The battle of Mogadishu is actually perfect, because that one IS idealized and seen as heroism, and most people know it as "Black Hawk Down" as a result.

Americans tend to disassociate honor with the present, where things are more personal, so it only seems like we're promoting cowardism. Hence the reason WWII vets were the Greatest Generation, and only segments past wars have gone down in history as these epic battlefield of heroism and bravery (Black Hawk Down is just far enough in the past to qualify). The further back in history an event becomes, the more spectacular the events and characters (Historicity: The writing of history over time, at it's finest).

Give it a few years and you'll start seeing stories about Afghanistan circulate, with people relating to that more heroic past. You'll have your Bulge, your Black Hawk Down, and your Patton's, Bradley's, and 101st.

In fact, I'd bet good money Fallujah will become the next big heroic epic in the American saga, it's already got the characteristics of a good Epic battle, it would be easy to fill the gaps.

[Imperator]

and only segments past wars

segments OF past wars.....

Damn English, gapping the preposition only works in Latin and Greek.....

[SmilezRoyale]

Hogwash is actually making an important point, a war like iraq creates paranoia, it's one of those wars were it is difficult to know who is a friend and who is a foe

[reviewer-general]

Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea what conditions there are actually like?

If not, what is the basis for your fear?

I saw you lecturing someone in another thread about what they should do if they get sent into combat, and I was wondering what gives you that kind of knowledge.

;

[ABsoldier17]

At 5/13/08 02:01 PM, TheMason wrote: Military service changes a person. It is not only a job, and that is not something you can understand without experiencing it for yourself. In fact I feel sorry for people who will never experience this for themselves...

I wish I could. Medical disqualifications suck

[bcdemon]

At 5/14/08 02:17 AM, Imperator wrote: In fact, I'd bet good money Fallujah will become the next big heroic epic in the American saga, it's already got the characteristics of a good Epic battle, it would be easy to fill the gaps.

Where is the heroism in napalm? US military completely destroyed Fallujah. The only thing you have brought Fallujah is insane amounts of death and destruction. The only heroism you find coming out of Fallujah are the Iraqis who survived it.

There is absolutely nothing heroic about the US involvement in Fallujah. Unless of course you like US soldiers killing 4 innocent civilians under US capture for no reason. To each his own.

[troubles1]

At 5/14/08 06:36 PM, bcdemon wrote:

At 5/14/08 02:17 AM, Imperator wrote: In fact, I'd bet good money Fallujah will become the next big heroic epic in the American saga, it's already got the characteristics of a good Epic battle, it would be easy to fill the gaps.

Where is the heroism in napalm? US military completely destroyed Fallujah. The only thing you have brought Fallujah is insane amounts of death and destruction. The only heroism you find coming out of Fallujah are the Iraqis who survived it.

There is absolutely nothing heroic about the US involvement in Fallujah. Unless of course you like US soldiers killing 4 innocent civilians under US capture for no reason. To each his own.

Shut the fuck up.. i WAS IN THAT Battle , you have no Idea what it was like then or now for that matter, Americans Soldiers are not the Murders its the crazy Islamic extremists who think millions must die to bring there paradise. they think we are the Great Satan and Israel in the Little Satan, there are so many reasons this WAR IS just and Right, many many Iraqis LOVE US, People like you who have no respect for the soldiers serving this country are Pathetic. do not respond I really do not want to hear your ignorance.

[SteveGuzzi]

At 5/13/08 03:46 PM, TheMason wrote: Yes he comes across as a coward. But it is because our society is oriented to value cowardice as a virtue and to eschew self-sacrifice.

At 5/14/08 02:17 AM, Imperator wrote: I disagree. I think our society is still oriented towards those goals, but warfare has focused away from tales of epic heroism, or at least it always does so in the present. War has become more personal and less glamorous, which means there are simply fewer examples of combat heroism.

Hmm. I dunno. It seems to me that society is more and more focused on individual rights and privileges and less and less concerned about collective duties and obligations these days. It's kinda odd since they share a direct relationship, rights and obligations. One person's right is the whole group's obligation, e.g. my right to free speech only exists if society as a whole obligates itself to not censor me. It just feels like people nowadays are more about demanding their privileges and freedoms and less about fulfilling their obligations to ensure the privileges and freedoms of others.

Also, war is MORE personal and LESS glamorized these days??? Wonkers, I thought it was the complete opposite! As military technology advances, war only gets less and less personal. We don't have battlefields of men crossing swords and shields anymore, looking each other in the eyes as they hack one-another to bits. Today we kill long-distance at the push of a button. As for glamor... how many armchair soldiers are out there living out their interactive wartime fantasies through console and PC games and whatnot? Cats who have no problem with blasting digital enemies in the face with assault rifles and shotguns yet would probably be traumatized for life if they witnessed the same thing live and in-person. Except for a few epic films, people are getting more and more famiiar with the glamorized version of combat which doesn't really sync-up with the real-life consequences of war.

-----

Anyhoo, as for the topic... a few years ago I was about a hair's breadth away from joining the Army. I went to the recruitment office in Yonkers to get some more information about the different fields offered and whatnot, did their little preliminary test thingie (all I can remember is that it was practically like a 7th-grade math quiz), chatted with the recruitment officers for awhile... and then one of the dudes basically wanted me to "sign on the dotted line" right there. His urging and insistence are what actually turned me off to it. I wouldn't put my signature on anything then and there, so for the next three days or so they kept calling my crib wanting me to return to the office, even offering to pick me up if I couldn't get a ride, blah blah blah, whatever. I decided not to proceed. Hell, if they were actually charismatic and inspiring and didn't just seem like they were aching to get their recruiting bonus or fill a monthly quota or whatever, then I probably would've joined.

I think there's just a lot of disillusionment surrounding the Armed Forces. Sure, not every position is a front-line one and there's all sorts of aid and helpful things we do and yadda yadda yadda, but at its core it's still just the business of killing. Maybe if things really WERE as simple as they are in video games, where you KNOW your enemy is the 100% certified bad-guy-to-kill, maybe then people wouldn't be so wary of joining. Allies and "good guys", enemies and "bad guys"... these things are not actual synonyms. History illustrates that international treaties and alliances are based not so much on honor and merit as they are mutual interest and benefit, and they're all tentative at best.

Off the top of my head, World War II is the only wide-scale armed conflict that, had I been alive in that era, would have whole-heartedly supported and joined the armed forces for. In the event of any future draft (however unlikely it may be) I wouldn't try to dodge it, I'd just man up and do what I have to do. Still, I'd rather fulfill my duties with a clear conscience and sense of purpose as opposed to begrudgingly following orders handed down from on high.

[HogWashSoup]

Maybe if we were fighting a real threat, my views would be different.
Like germany in ww2, taking over half of europe and could have take over America.

wether we win or lose in iraq, america will stay the same. Our freedoms and way of living is in no way threatened.

Perhaps if we were facing an enemy that if we lost, america and millions of people would be no more, maybe i would put my life on the line.

Iraq is in no way a threat to us.

Also, just becase I dont want to get killed doesnt mean im selfish.
I would rather find a way that keeps everyone alive rather then have one person die to save the rest.

Im not the kind of person that will jump on a grenade to save others, unless i had some super bulletproof vest that made sure i was undamaged by the blast.

I jump on the grenade, and the blast kills me. Done, life is over. No more. I dont live to have my own family, i dont see the next day. I die, all because I jumped on a grenade.

Also, main reason I dont join the military is because I wouldnt be able to handle it. Some people can go in it and some people cant. Just how it is. Doesnt make me a lesser of a person, those who think it does are the lesser people. Just means I will be better at doing other things for the country, like a desk job or something that i would enjoy.

If i went to fight in iraq, I would be set on living no matter what. If i hear bullets, I duck for cover, and then try to to kill the enemy, and all of them. If they start to run away, kill them.

I go into a viliage, I make sure to watch every single person. Each person Is a threat in my eyes.

Though, how do people in the military change? If a guy before serving, is an easy going guy that likes to take it easy, after serving is he able to go back to that or does he become not so easy going?

[psycho-squirrel]

Well I would never serve because I dont feel the need to be in it for myself.

I wouldnt mind dying in battle, just as long as the battle is worth dying for. Dont see how anyone can see Iraq as a real threat to America.