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Forum Topic: Abortion..?

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This topic is 5 pages long. [ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 ]

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Wuggawoot

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Posted at: 5/11/08 02:27 AM

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Alright, i get it if your pro choice, i get it if your not..
But if your not, what legal action should be taken against people who have illegal abortions?

If you can read this, go take a nap. Seriously. If you don't, you'll be raped by wild boars.
...Or stingrays

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Brick-top

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Posted at: 5/11/08 02:37 AM

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Just give people better access to contraception and education about sex.

The abortion rate will drop but it will still be legal, it's a win, win.


Elated

Miigga

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Posted at: 5/11/08 03:25 AM

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Abortion is FUN


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Sajberhippien

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Posted at: 5/11/08 03:43 AM

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At 5/11/08 02:27 AM, Wuggawoot wrote: Alright, i get it if your pro choice, i get it if your not..
But if your not, what legal action should be taken against people who have illegal abortions?

Death Penalty. We have to little of that in the US, and Eye for and Eye is the only just punishment.

/Sarcasm

You shouldn't believe that you have the right of free thinking, it's a threat to our democracy.


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Sajberhippien

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Posted at: 5/11/08 03:45 AM

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At 5/11/08 03:43 AM, Sajberhippien wrote: Eye for an Eye is the only just punishment.

Fixed. Newgrounds, an Edit Post option would be nice...

You shouldn't believe that you have the right of free thinking, it's a threat to our democracy.


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n64kid

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Posted at: 5/11/08 04:00 AM

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At 5/11/08 03:43 AM, Sajberhippien wrote:
Death Penalty. We have to little of that in the US, and Eye for and Eye is the only just punishment.

/Sarcasm

Why must all your posts try to bring Israel and the US down? Do you hate developed countries that are better than your own? Do you think inferior justice systems are superior? Do you favor Hitler over George Washington?

Your posts would argue for you to answer yes.

Tolerance comes with tolerance of the intolerant. True tolerance doesn't exist.

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dySWN

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Posted at: 5/11/08 04:24 AM

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At 5/11/08 04:00 AM, n64kid wrote: Why must all your posts try to bring Israel and the US down? Do you hate developed countries that are better than your own? Do you think inferior justice systems are superior? Do you favor Hitler over George Washington?

Your posts would argue for you to answer yes.

And... where are you coming from with this? You lost me.

NEVADA: It's pronounced "nuh-VAD-uh", not "nuh-vah-duh."

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Sajberhippien

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Posted at: 5/11/08 04:48 AM

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At 5/11/08 04:00 AM, n64kid wrote:
At 5/11/08 03:43 AM, Sajberhippien wrote:
Death Penalty. We have to little of that in the US, and Eye for and Eye is the only just punishment.

/Sarcasm
Why must all your posts try to bring Israel and the US down? Do you hate developed countries that are better than your own? Do you think inferior justice systems are superior? Do you favor Hitler over George Washington?

Your posts would argue for you to answer yes.

What the fuck are you talking about? I haven't discussed Israel here very much, and I don't support "bringing it down". This post was about abortion, a topic that reaches world-wide and that is up to discussion even in my homeland, although I don't know in which way it is the US would be better than Sweden. More people might be a good thing, and since it's a larger country it has more varying nature, but apart from that, I quite like being a swede. We have less crime, great musical culture (heard of Gothenburg Metal? :)) and also great nature.
Since most people here are americans, I assumed that the discussion was primarily the case of american law. I was sarcastic "against" extreme pro-lifers which often at the same time are extreme pro-death penalty, not against America as a whole.
Why is it always the right-wing flag-waving patriots that accuse everyone of just wanting to bring down america? Do you people feel threatened because I was sarcastic at the expense of extremists (and sometimes even terrorists, bombing abortion clinics)?
Seriously, I'm getting pissed off by people like you, always putting words in my mouth.

I'm gonna say it once and for all, and please don't suggest things like this again:
I DO NOT WANT TO BRING DOWN USA OR ISRAEL. I DO NOT HATE OR LOOK DOWN UPON ALL THAT LIVE IN THOSE COUNTRIES.
I dislike extremism and direct capitalism, and there's just a lot of both in America, as are in a lot of other countries. However, these countries isn't on the board as often as the US, simply because the US has 350 million people or something like that. I dislike much stuff that your government does, that's true, but I dislike a lot of stuff people do around the globe. I dislike the Swedish government for handing people over to the CIA, I despise the Chinese government for excecuting more people than all other countries in the world. In Saudi Arabia they excecute gays and raped women, and in most of Europe they just don't give a shit about all refugees coming from Iraq, just handing them over to the greeks, which are vile, sometimes killing people who seek asylum.
I say it again, hopefully for the last time:
I DO NOT WANT TO BRING DOWN USA OR ISRAEL. I DO NOT HATE OR LOOK DOWN UPON ALL THAT LIVE IN THOSE COUNTRIES.
Please don't put words in my mouth. It's rude and it doesn't lead to a meaningful discussion.

You shouldn't believe that you have the right of free thinking, it's a threat to our democracy.


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dySWN

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Posted at: 5/11/08 05:33 AM

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At 5/11/08 04:48 AM, Sajberhippien wrote: (rant)

Overreact much?

NEVADA: It's pronounced "nuh-VAD-uh", not "nuh-vah-duh."

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Sajberhippien

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Posted at: 5/11/08 05:40 AM

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At 5/11/08 05:33 AM, dySWN wrote:
At 5/11/08 04:48 AM, Sajberhippien wrote: (rant)
Overreact much?

It's not the first time people accuse me of that stuff, which is not in any way true. Very well, let's get back on topic.

You shouldn't believe that you have the right of free thinking, it's a threat to our democracy.


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ThePretenders

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Posted at: 5/11/08 04:35 PM

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At 5/11/08 03:25 AM, Miigga wrote: Abortion is FUN

I found this very funny.

"There's no way you're going to get a quote from us to use on your book cover" - Metropolitan Police Spokesperson - Wall and Piece back cover.

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Zeistro

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Posted at: 5/11/08 04:40 PM

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I've said it once, and I'll say it once more: every abortion performed is a favor for the rightwing.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud


Shouting

Bruce-Wayne

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Posted at: 5/11/08 04:49 PM

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At 5/11/08 04:35 PM, ThePretenders wrote:
At 5/11/08 03:25 AM, Miigga wrote: Abortion is FUN
I found this very funny.

Thats just scary.

I was in Addenbrookes yesterday.

Resigned

pwroftheseagoat

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Posted at: 5/11/08 06:16 PM

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At 5/11/08 02:27 AM, Wuggawoot wrote: Alright, i get it if your pro choice, i get it if your not..
But if your not, what legal action should be taken against people who have illegal abortions?

How about sterilization? If they're just going to kill their baby illegally take away their ability to have children. The person who would have an illegal abortion performed obviously wouldn't make the greatest parent. Even if it's given up for adoption you're going to have one fucked up kid if it ever finds out about it's real parents. Better to sterilize these people I think and let good people that care about their children raise families. Maybe there should be a test? Maybe like an SAT which will determine whether or not you'll get sterilized. Lol. Suggestions to think about people!


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SolInvictus

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Posted at: 5/11/08 06:56 PM

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At 5/11/08 04:35 PM, ThePretenders wrote:
At 5/11/08 03:25 AM, Miigga wrote: Abortion is FUN
I found this very funny.

i don't see what the fuss is about.

VESTRUM BARDUSIS MIHI EXTASUM
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cellardoor6

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Posted at: 5/11/08 09:08 PM

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If someone gets an abortion for other than legitimate reasons (incest or rape), they should be forced to watch the video of it. They should have their eyelids clamped open like in A Clockwork Orange, and they should have to sit through the entire video of their would-be babies getting their brains sucked out and/or their bodies ripped to pieces.

If you want to have an abortion, then you should fucking own it and witness exactly what it is you did instead of hiding from it like coward. The system as it is now allows women to simply get gassed up, and wake up hours later with a sore vagina, and boom problem solved. They are so disconnected from the actual act. They are basically pulling a Hitler; having someone else kill for them while remaining blissfully ignorant. They probably don't even have a clear idea of what an abortion actually is.

Abortion..?


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SEXY-FETUS

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Posted at: 5/11/08 11:09 PM

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Assuming both parties know it's an illegal abortion. Rape inccest mothers life in danger yadda yadda.

Short jail sentance for the mother. Possible psychological evaluation and a mandatory redux of her highschool sex ed class.
Jail and loss of licence for the doctor performing said abortion.

Charges to the doctor don't apply if what the mother said is found to be false. And manslaughter charges to the doctor if he performs it without the mothers consent or best intentions in mind.


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Grammer

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Posted at: 5/11/08 11:22 PM

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At 5/11/08 02:27 AM, Wuggawoot wrote: But if your not, what legal action should be taken against people who have illegal abortions?

Good question. Personally I feel no punishment should befall the woman, the doctor should be fined and perhaps have his license to practice medicine temporarily suspended. NOT CHARGED WITH MURDER.

However, if we're talking back-alley abortion with a coat hanger, both the mother (if willing participant), and the makeshift abortionist should be CHARGED WITH MURDER.

Of course it depends on a bunch of different things. How developed the fetus (or zygote, w/e) was, and some other things I can't think of right now. But generally, that's what I believe.

Check out my user page. JUST DO IT MOTHER FUCKER

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SadisticMonkey

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Posted at: 5/12/08 12:42 AM

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At 5/11/08 09:08 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: If someone gets an abortion for other than legitimate reasons (incest or rape),

Yeah, there is absolutely no reasonable scenario other than those mentioned to have an abortion.

they should be forced to watch the video of it. They should have their eyelids clamped open like in A Clockwork Orange, and they should have to sit through the entire video of their would-be babies getting their brains sucked out and/or their bodies ripped to pieces.

What the fuck is wrong with you.

The People I have spoken to who have had an abortion (and which I'm sure is the case for practically everyone who gets an abortion) have been extremely distressed and upset afterwards. They didn't particularly want to have one, but felt that it was necessary.
Granted, they chose to have one and as such they probably deserve to feel bad about it.

But what you're suggesting is fucking retarded. You make it sound as though that woman who have an abortion are celebrating and doing backflips afterwards.
Showing them the video is not going to undo the abortion; only cause severe psychological trauma.

You are now aware that the girl you like has had other penises in her vagina & mouth. Also, you are in the friend zone.
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cellardoor6

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Posted at: 5/12/08 01:24 AM

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At 5/12/08 12:42 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:
At 5/11/08 09:08 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: If someone gets an abortion for other than legitimate reasons (incest or rape),
Yeah, there is absolutely no reasonable scenario other than those mentioned to have an abortion.

Getting drunk and forgetting your pill is not a reasonable justification for an abortion. Fear of responsibility, fear of enduring the repercussions of your actions does not justify abortion. However, getting raped or having to bear a baby that will likely come out with flippers and die within a few months is grounds for abortion.

they should be forced to watch the video of it. They should have their eyelids clamped open like in A Clockwork Orange, and they should have to sit through the entire video of their would-be babies getting their brains sucked out and/or their bodies ripped to pieces.
What the fuck is wrong with you.

Lol, you're asking ME that?

What the fuck is wrong with someone who would sign up for an abortion but refuse to acknowledge what this actually implies? I'll tell you exactly what the fuck is wrong with them, they are cowards, and they have the "out of sight, out of mind" thinking error, where they disown their own decisions/actions because they barricade themselves from reality.

"I don't want a baby, I'm young and I don't want to get fat or take care of a kid. So I'm going to go to a doctor and get an abortion. But fuck no, I don't want to see it though."

That is just about the most ignorant and arrogant possible thing someone can do. Abortion is the pinnacle of negative human behavior.

Speaking of which, why don't you ask yourself that very question? What the fuck is wrong with YOU?

Your logic consists basically of:

"A woman should be able to go to a doctor and have him to mutilate her unborn baby, ripping it into gory shreds and throwing it away along with other 'medical waste'. But it would be inhumane and wrong for this woman to be confronted with what this actually implies. Someone must be sick in the head of they actually want people to know what an abortion actually is."

The People I have spoken to who have had an abortion (and which I'm sure is the case for practically everyone who gets an abortion) have been extremely distressed and upset afterwards.

And they deserve it. But they should also have to face the full extent of negative emotions they deserve. They should have to see what they chose in its full, horrifying entirety.

But what you're suggesting is fucking retarded. You make it sound as though that woman who have an abortion are celebrating and doing backflips afterwards.

Nope, I'm saying that women (and the men who support them getting abortions, the potential fathers) are 1) More likely to get abortions because they are sheltered from the brutal reality of it. 2) They are allowed to avoid dealing with that reality, because they don't have to witness the consequences of that decision to get an abortion (which plays in to #1).

Showing them the video is not going to undo the abortion; only cause severe psychological trauma.

It will cause a deterrent.

Knowing that you're going to have to witness your unborn baby being mutilated if you decide to get an abortion is going to make you think twice about getting it. It will also probably deter you from future irresponsible sexual behavior, thus cutting down the rate of women that get multiple abortions.

As a pretext for that, this idea applies in other areas. There's a lot of people that could have the guts to put poison in someone's drink, or higher a hitman or something, but they don't have the moxie to use a knife and/or actually witness the death of the person they want dead.

Making a woman and the douchebag she fucked, have to own her/their decisions, and witness the results of those decisions makes a whole lot of sense. Both for deterrent purposes, and moral purposes.


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KidPower

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Posted at: 5/12/08 01:54 AM

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I agree completely it's an indefinate form of murder, and jailing them just means they take up tax dollars.


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SadisticMonkey

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Posted at: 5/12/08 02:13 AM

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At 5/12/08 01:24 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: It will cause a deterrent.

In that case, wouldn't it make infinitely more sense to show them the more before they have an abortion?

Because the whole point of a deterrent is to stop something from happening. Showing them afterwards is just going to cause psychological trauma, and if this actually puts them off an idea of Abortion, then it's just going to fill them with regret.

You claim that the women don't know what an abortion really constitutes before they have one. Wouldn't telling/showing them before they have one work a whole lot better?

Because then it may be like "Oh, dear god, I had no idea. I really don't know if I want to go through with this."

Which is a great way of acting as a deterrent, which you proposed.

But with your method the only possibility if it affects them is "Oh my god. I didn't know, I feel awful. I just caused my baby to become mutilated. What have I done!?"

Which, aside from causing some massive guilt trip which you seem to get off on, does nothing except maybe stopping a future abortion.

You are now aware that the girl you like has had other penises in her vagina & mouth. Also, you are in the friend zone.
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G-Locked

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Posted at: 5/12/08 03:32 AM

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Abortion is not a from of murder, it is taking what is essentially a parasitic entity and terminating it. 87% of all abortions occur during the first trimester of pregnancy. The baby is not sentient or conscious at this point, and is largely similar to all other Mammalian fetuses. Would be parent(s) have their fetus aborted generally because the circumstances pertaining to its birth were non consensual, or the situation in which it would be born would be dangerous or neglectful. In addition, if childbirth has the potential to seriously injure or kill the mother, this is also grounds for an abortion.

Here are some facts about abortion: Guttmacher Institute

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G-Locked

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Posted at: 5/12/08 03:39 AM

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Alright, that was 16 posts until the name of Hitler was invoked. Thread self destruction initiated. Also, Cellardoor, why are you comparing women who get abortions to Hitler?

My doctor says I have a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and am therefore excused from saving universes.

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Memorize

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Posted at: 5/12/08 04:36 AM

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Well... firstly, less than 1% of abortion cases are due to rape, so I wouldn't call the other 99% as "non-consensual".

Secondly, just like Rape-cases, only a very small fraction of all abortions are cases where the mother's life is threatend.

The thing is: NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST ABORTION IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.

The Facts Still Remain:

-1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

-47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.

-Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.

-64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women<; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%.

Conclusion:

-Considering half of abortion are by women who have recieved at least 1 other previous abortion; more than half of all abortions are done by people financially capable of supporting a child; 93% of abortion choices are because it would be "inconveniant", There is no excuse.


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cellardoor6

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Posted at: 5/12/08 12:54 PM

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At 5/12/08 02:13 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:
At 5/12/08 01:24 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: It will cause a deterrent.
In that case, wouldn't it make infinitely more sense to show them the more before they have an abortion?

There'd be no way to legislate that, because if they saw an abortion beforehand, that doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty (yes I used the word "guilty") of committing an abortion. If that is the logic, then all women should be forced to see abortions.

Personally, I think ANYONE who is pro-choice should witness an abortion for their own education. But someone who actually gets one shouldn't have a choice, they should be forced to own what they did. Pretty simple.

Because the whole point of a deterrent is to stop something from happening.

You can't punish someone for a crime they might commit in the future. This isn't Minority Report.

Showing them afterwards is just going to cause psychological trauma

...

And causing psychological trauma to people who haven't had abortions is somehow better to you?

and if this actually puts them off an idea of Abortion, then it's just going to fill them with regret.

Which they would deserve.

You claim that the women don't know what an abortion really constitutes before they have one. Wouldn't telling/showing them before they have one work a whole lot better?

Wouldn't get defeat your entire former argument, considering your original reaction to the idea was that it would traumatize people?


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cellardoor6

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Posted at: 5/12/08 12:59 PM

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At 5/12/08 03:39 AM, G-Locked wrote: Alright, that was 16 posts until the name of Hitler was invoked. Thread self destruction initiated. Also, Cellardoor, why are you comparing women who get abortions to Hitler?

I knew some idiot was going to say something like that.

Hitler was responsible for a lot of deaths, but he was personally horrified of violence. He had other people kill for him, he had some of his closest party members and friends killed. He engineered the holocaust as a whole, but refused to acknowledge the specific methods the Nazis used to kill the Jews.

He was blissfully ignorant to what his choices caused.

Although an abortion is not equal to the holocaust, the behavior of someone who gets an abortion is somewhat similar to Hitler's. Having someone else kill for you, yet refuse to witness the actual act itself. You never have to deal with the full guilt you deserve, because you refuse to even fully grasp what it is you did. Talking about an abortion is not the same as SEEING one, seeing a baby actually ripped to shreds and mutilated, then thrown away.


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Elfer

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Posted at: 5/12/08 01:21 PM

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At 5/11/08 09:08 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: If someone gets an abortion for other than legitimate reasons (incest or rape), they should be forced to watch the video of it. They should have their eyelids clamped open like in A Clockwork Orange, and they should have to sit through the entire video of their would-be babies getting their brains sucked out and/or their bodies ripped to pieces.

I'd be ok with that personally, but there's a lot of sissies out there who just hate the sight of blood and things. Plenty of people would be grossed out by morally unambiguous surgeries like appendectomies, just because they're gooey.

Still, I think most people realize what they're doing when they get an abortion.

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KeithHybrid

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Posted at: 5/12/08 01:50 PM

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Think of it this way: if abortion, a procedure that is currently performed by trained professionals who know what they're doing, gets illegalized, the only way to get one is through unsafe, possibly life-threatening, procedures. I read somewhere that a woman tried to abort using some kind of tree bark, then wound up getting gangreen and dying from it.

When something gets illegalized, people will get killed over it.
Don't believe me? Look at pot.

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Sajberhippien

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Posted at: 5/12/08 03:58 PM

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At 5/12/08 01:24 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Your logic consists basically of:

"A woman should be able to go to a doctor and have him to mutilate her unborn baby, ripping it into gory shreds and throwing it away along with other 'medical waste'. "

You know, one might argue that the logic of not forbidding male masturbation consists of:

"A man should be able to watch porn and with his hands cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his unborn babys."

You shouldn't believe that you have the right of free thinking, it's a threat to our democracy.


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