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So, my Physics and Earth Science teacher was telling us about Cows, and Farming animals. So then he said that even if we stop eating cows and let them all go free, they would all die within three days because we have bred them to be so weak, fat, and easy to breed that they would have no way to survive outside of captivity.

So then I guess even if we stop eating cows and move onto another animal, or become vegetarian, they will be killed out.

The deal is, Save the individual cow from pain, but let the species die out in a week, or keep eating them and keep the species going.

And do not say "Stop eating them, but keep breeding them" because cattle ranching is a business, and that would be a money pit.

Cows are raised to be slaughtered, if we stop feeding them, the die. If we keep feeding them, they all die anyway. Keeping the species going just means more suffer cruel deaths.

So animals bred in captivity have difficulty in the wild? This is new.

At 5/7/08 06:00 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Keeping the species going just means more suffer cruel deaths.

So? The beef jerky is worth it.

That's just what I said. There is no right thing to do.

At 5/7/08 06:02 PM, hippl5 wrote:

At 5/7/08 06:00 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Keeping the species going just means more suffer cruel deaths.

So? The beef jerky is worth it.

Shut the fuck up and stop being a fucking troll.

At 5/7/08 05:55 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote:

And do not say "Stop eating them, but keep breeding them" because cattle ranching is a business, and that would be a money pit.

I don't know, I think it would be pretty cool to breed cows just for fun.

At 5/7/08 06:03 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

At 5/7/08 05:55 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote:

And do not say "Stop eating them, but keep breeding them" because cattle ranching is a business, and that would be a money pit.

I don't know, I think it would be pretty cool to breed cows just for fun.

Well, you should see what they used to look like. They were 12 feet tall, and 20 feet long. I asked him how they bred them and he said that they would wall them in canyons because nothing could be built strong enough to hold them in.

So unless you make them grow a new limb, or some really cool shit you are going nowhere but down.

At 5/7/08 06:03 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

At 5/7/08 05:55 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote:

And do not say "Stop eating them, but keep breeding them" because cattle ranching is a business, and that would be a money pit.

I don't know, I think it would be pretty cool to breed cows just for fun.

Yeah, so you could maybe keep a few alive for a few years.

Not many people would think that would be cool though.

At 5/7/08 06:03 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote:

At 5/7/08 06:02 PM, hippl5 wrote:

At 5/7/08 06:00 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Keeping the species going just means more suffer cruel deaths.

So? The beef jerky is worth it.

Shut the fuck up and stop being a fucking troll.

How am I being a troll? All I'm saying is that animals' feelings don't matter.

At 5/7/08 06:15 PM, hippl5 wrote:

At 5/7/08 06:03 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote:

At 5/7/08 06:02 PM, hippl5 wrote:

At 5/7/08 06:00 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Keeping the species going just means more suffer cruel deaths.

So? The beef jerky is worth it.

Shut the fuck up and stop being a fucking troll.

How am I being a troll? All I'm saying is that animals' feelings don't matter.

You're trolling me specifically. Every time a topic comes up about anything to do with cows/meat/vegetarianism and I post in it, you post and completely disagree with me. You keep bringing up beef jerky too.

Honestly, half my posts have to be a flame war with you.

At 5/7/08 06:18 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: You're trolling me specifically. Every time a topic comes up about anything to do with cows/meat/vegetarianism and I post in it, you post and completely disagree with me. You keep bringing up beef jerky too.

Honestly, half my posts have to be a flame war with you.

I'm not going after you. Just because I disagreed with you in a couple of threads doesn't mean I'm trying to troll you.

At 5/7/08 06:18 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote:
You're trolling me specifically. Every time a topic comes up about anything to do with cows/meat/vegetarianism and I post in it, you post and completely disagree with me. You keep bringing up beef jerky too.

Honestly, half my posts have to be a flame war with you.

Nah, people on these forums tend to make fun of vegetarians as a whole, it's not personal. BTW burger > Carabell's feelings.

Also, meat ftw.

At 5/7/08 06:03 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote:

At 5/7/08 06:02 PM, hippl5 wrote:

At 5/7/08 06:00 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Keeping the species going just means more suffer cruel deaths.

So? The beef jerky is worth it.

Shut the fuck up and stop being a fucking troll.

cruelty makes them taste better.

At 5/7/08 05:55 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: ... if we stop eating cows and let them all go free, they would all die within three days ... they would have no way to survive outside of captivity.

So what you're saying, I get my steak and their species lives (if not thrives)...

Sounds like a win-win to me! :)

This one time my teacher said that it may be possible for humans to fly because of a thingy in the prefrontal cortex. So I jumped off of a bridge.

Lawsuits are pending...

Have you ever even even seen a cow? They stand around in a field all day chewing on grass. The presence or absence of a barbed wire fence doesn't really affect their ability to do that. They may run into problems which human developments where grazing land should be but that doesn't mean that they won't be able to survive, especially with the absence of natural predators.

If cows were released in the while they would wonder around, moo and eat grass. A few would be eaten, some would starve because of lack of food and others would die in the winter but a whole bunch would survive and breed and have baby cows bettered suited for their new environment. This cycle would continue so on and so forth provided the cows were given ample area to roam around and find food.

At 5/7/08 06:02 PM, hippl5 wrote:

So? The beef jerky is worth it.

Seconded.

At 5/7/08 08:01 PM, BeFell wrote: This one time my teacher said that it may be possible for humans to fly because of a thingy in the prefrontal cortex. So I jumped off of a bridge.

Lawsuits are pending...

Hehe!

2007: Mason makes a New Year's pledge to be nicer about typos...but this just struck him as funny...

If cows were released in the while they would wonder around, moo and eat grass.

So what would a cow "wonder" about in the "while"? And what is the "while", is it something like purgatory?

:)

At 5/7/08 08:11 PM, TheMason wrote:

2007: Mason makes a New Year's pledge to be nicer about typos...but this just struck him as funny...

If cows were released in the while they would wonder around, moo and eat grass.

So what would a cow "wonder" about in the "while"? And what is the "while", is it something like purgatory?

)

I'm in the midst of writing an estate so my brain is in the midst of "I could utilize Sec. 2010 unified credit along with the Sec. 2056 marital deduction to minimize tax consequences, however, if I also manage to incorporate Sec. 2503 deductions I could eliminate the tax entirely but the decedent would lose rights to the property. Perhaps if I brought in Sec. 2702 into play..."

I come here to vent as my brain works, my grammar suffers, don't fuck with me.

At 5/7/08 08:01 PM, BeFell wrote: This one time my teacher said that it may be possible for humans to fly because of a thingy in the prefrontal cortex. So I jumped off of a bridge.

Lawsuits are pending...

Have you ever even even seen a cow? They stand around in a field all day chewing on grass. The presence or absence of a barbed wire fence doesn't really affect their ability to do that. They may run into problems which human developments where grazing land should be but that doesn't mean that they won't be able to survive, especially with the absence of natural predators.

If cows were released in the while they would wonder around, moo and eat grass. A few would be eaten, some would starve because of lack of food and others would die in the winter but a whole bunch would survive and breed and have baby cows bettered suited for their new environment. This cycle would continue so on and so forth provided the cows were given ample area to roam around and find food.

We have removed so many of their natural defences that they would have no way to survive the winter. We Take care of them, they do not just wander around and moo and eat grass. What else do you think they do in their meantime? They get pumped with steroids, and, like you said, are surrounded by BARBED WIRE FENCES.

They need the BARBED WIRE FENCES because they have no way of defending themselves.

A few pockets may live on for a generation or two on Islands in the pacific or isolated tropical areas that present them with no predators, but besides that there will be a mass extinction.

At 5/7/08 09:33 PM, Seatbeltnazi wrote: We have removed so many of their natural defences that they would have no way to survive the winter. We Take care of them, they do not just wander around and moo and eat grass. What else do you think they do in their meantime? They get pumped with steroids, and, like you said, are surrounded by BARBED WIRE FENCES.

They need the BARBED WIRE FENCES because they have no way of defending themselves.

A few pockets may live on for a generation or two on Islands in the pacific or isolated tropical areas that present them with no predators, but besides that there will be a mass extinction.

What the hell, do you live in Manhattan? Cows spend the majority of their lives wandering around in the what practically constitutes the wild, in fact lot's of ranchers have grazing rights on public lands meaning the cows do wonder around in the wild with all of the other animals. They don't get stacked up, caged and injected until they are sent to the slaughterhouse before then it's all mooing and grass. The barbed wire fences keep the cows from wandering off because they are naturally nomadic and will go look for even more grass than what humans provide. Do you really think a three foot tall barbed wire fence stops a wolf? Cows currently have to contend with whatever manner of predator happens to hop the fence and come after them but the fact is there are a lot more cows than predators so if a few get eaten its not really the end of the species, you just have pissed rancher.

As far as surviving the winter, what the hell do you think they do now? Do you think in October all of the cows are rounded up, placed in a barn and given electric blankets?

The fact is cows are pretty much self sufficient until it's time to be slaughtered what assistance they do receive is the result of ranchers owning more cows than their land can support as opposed to any deficiencies on the cow's part. I'm not saying that if they were all released every single cow would fare just fine but it certainly wouldn't be the end of their species.

I would advise you to actually go and at least see a cow before you continue this discussion, watch it for a few hours and note the lack of ranchers coming out and bottle feeding them before tucking them in at night.

You sir are the meat eating equivalent of a college-know-it-all-hippie and I hate hippies.

this is to the vegetarians:
Should we make lions ans every other carnivore out there eat tofu? or should we kill them so tey dont hurt herbivors?
Heres news for you. we are omnivors we are MEANT to eat both plants and meat.
Besides, of course animals go through pain. its called nature and more important, life.
Either way, thinking about a nice big peice of juicy steak just sends my mouth watering lol

At 5/7/08 11:02 PM, raider00321 wrote: this is to the vegetarians:
Should we make lions ans every other carnivore out there eat tofu? or should we kill them so tey dont hurt herbivors?
Heres news for you. we are omnivors we are MEANT to eat both plants and meat.
Besides, of course animals go through pain. its called nature and more important, life.
Either way, thinking about a nice big peice of juicy steak just sends my mouth watering lol

Here's news for you. Every other "omnivorous" species on the planet is adapted to eat meat from other animals RAW. The fact that humans cannot eat meat raw, as they would get diseases that carnivorous and omnivorous species have defenses against suggests humans are not omnivorous.
Human's have only been eating meat as long as they could cook it.

Herd animals (like cows) live a relatively sheltered life until they get a disease, grow weak and are picked off by predators. The natural life of an animal doesn't include the almost daily induced tortures they endure in factory farms.

At 5/7/08 11:19 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Here's news for you. Every other "omnivorous" species on the planet is adapted to eat meat from other animals RAW. The fact that humans cannot eat meat raw, as they would get diseases that carnivorous and omnivorous species have defenses against suggests humans are not omnivorous.
Human's have only been eating meat as long as they could cook it.

Monkeys, you know our evolutionary cousins, eat meat, are you saying they all have George Foreman Grilles? Honest to God, what are they teaching you kids in school these days. Fire made eating meat a whole lot less of a gamble and turned our species into evolutionary pussies but do you honestly think our ancestor's didn't eat meat until they figured out how to cook it? I'm curious, if they hadn't been eating meat before, why did they think to invent cooking?

It should be noted, however, that the diets of our ancestors didn't have anywhere near the amount of meat that we eat today.

Monkeys, you know our evolutionary cousins, eat meat, are you saying they all have George Foreman Grilles? Honest to God, what are they teaching you kids in school these days.

Monkeys=/=Humans. Humans didn't even evolve from monkeys.

"Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Humans are more closely related to modern apes than to monkeys, but we didn't evolve from apes, either. Humans share a common ancestor with modern African apes, like gorillas and chimpanzees. Scientists believe this common ancestor existed
5 to 8 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids. " citation

Most apes are strictly herbivorous.

Fire made eating meat a whole lot less of a gamble

Eating meat isn't a "gamble" omnivorous species. If eating meat was a gamble to early humans, how could they be omnivorous?

and turned our species into evolutionary pussies but do you honestly think our ancestor's didn't eat meat until they figured out how to cook it? I'm curious, if they hadn't been eating meat before, why did they think to invent cooking?

Experimentation with fire and the observation of predators around them. That's how everything is invented, experimentation and observation. When they realized that they could eat meat if they cooked it first, they added it to their diet.

It should be noted, however, that the diets of our ancestors didn't have anywhere near the amount of meat that we eat today.

At 5/7/08 11:19 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Here's news for you. Every other "omnivorous" species on the planet is adapted to eat meat from other animals RAW.

every herbivorous creature on the planet also evolved to eat plants raw. there are many plants that will make us sick if we eat them uncooked.

The fact that humans cannot eat meat raw, as they would get diseases that carnivorous and omnivorous species have defenses against suggests humans are not omnivorous.
Human's have only been eating meat as long as they could cook it.

not at all. eating raw meat is no greater a problem for humans than it is for wolves. eating raw meat increases the risk of parasites, but guess what? most carnivores are infected with parasites. if fresh the chances of infection are generally limited. unless specifically suited most carnivores cannot eat spoiled meat either.
given most carnivores can digest uncooked meat more easily then we can, but we're omnivores not carnivores.

Herd animals (like cows) live a relatively sheltered life until they get a disease, grow weak and are picked off by predators. The natural life of an animal doesn't include the almost daily induced tortures they endure in factory farms.

weren't you just arguing that allowing them to live free would assure them a slow and painful death?

At 5/7/08 11:53 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Most apes are strictly herbivorous.

and some aren't. we are one of those exceptions.

At 5/7/08 11:53 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote:

Monkeys, you know our evolutionary cousins, eat meat, are you saying they all have George Foreman Grilles? Honest to God, what are they teaching you kids in school these days.

Monkeys=/=Humans. Humans didn't even evolve from monkeys.

"Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Humans are more closely related to modern apes than to monkeys, but we didn't evolve from apes, either. Humans share a common ancestor with modern African apes, like gorillas and chimpanzees. Scientists believe this common ancestor existed
5 to 8 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids. " citation

Most apes are strictly herbivorous.

So they would kind of like be our evolutionary cousins? Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.

Fire made eating meat a whole lot less of a gamble

Eating meat isn't a "gamble" omnivorous species. If eating meat was a gamble to early humans, how could they be omnivorous?

You don't think carnivores and omnivores pick up infections from raw meat?

and turned our species into evolutionary pussies but do you honestly think our ancestor's didn't eat meat until they figured out how to cook it? I'm curious, if they hadn't been eating meat before, why did they think to invent cooking?

Experimentation with fire and the observation of predators around them. That's how everything is invented, experimentation and observation. When they realized that they could eat meat if they cooked it first, they added it to their diet.

They observed saber tooth tigers sitting around a campfire roasting a chicken? You're a silly bidilly. Early humans ate meat if they could acquire meat, sometimes it made them sick sometimes it didn't. Some died some didn't, hence the fundamental gamble that all species face, doing an activity that might or might not kill you and hoping you live long enough to pass on your genes. This is called natural selection, human ingenuity and inventions such as harnessing fire to kill bacteria and parasites in meat and using weapons to more easily obtain meat has taken humans out of the game of natural selection. Thus everyone can eat properly cooked meat and not have to worry about dying, this means that something that was a gamble is no longer a gamble.

Much like the other guy I spoke with in this thread I think you need to do yourself some "learnin" before you make any more comments. Your homework, read this, Natural Selection by The Assholes who contribute to Wikipedia, then come back and tell me how you think it may apply to what we've been discussing here.

At 5/7/08 11:58 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 5/7/08 11:19 PM, SirBackBoobs wrote: Here's news for you. Every other "omnivorous" species on the planet is adapted to eat meat from other animals RAW.

every herbivorous creature on the planet also evolved to eat plants raw. there are many plants that will make us sick if we eat them uncooked.

There are also plants that other herbivores are not adapted to eat. Most herbivores eat a diet of a specific sort of plant

The fact that humans cannot eat meat raw, as they would get diseases that carnivorous and omnivorous species have defenses against suggests humans are not omnivorous.
Human's have only been eating meat as long as they could cook it.

not at all. eating raw meat is no greater a problem for humans than it is for wolves. eating raw meat increases the risk of parasites, but guess what? most carnivores are infected with parasites. if fresh the chances of infection are generally limited. unless specifically suited most carnivores cannot eat spoiled meat either.

The only food poisoning that people can get is from uncooked meat. Undercooked meat can even give you infections like salmonella and E. choli. You're not gonna tell me that undercooked meat is spoiled, are you?

given most carnivores can digest uncooked meat more easily then we can, but we're omnivores not carnivores.

Omnivores can digest meat more easily than we can too.

Herd animals (like cows) live a relatively sheltered life until they get a disease, grow weak and are picked off by predators. The natural life of an animal doesn't include the almost daily induced tortures they endure in factory farms.

weren't you just arguing that allowing them to live free would assure them a slow and painful death?

Nope

So they would kind of like be our evolutionary cousins? Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.

You stated that monkeys were our evolutionary cousins, which is very untrue. Apes, are our evolutionary cousins, apes=/=monkeys.

Fire made eating meat a whole lot less of a gamble

Eating meat isn't a "gamble" omnivorous species. If eating meat was a gamble to early humans, how could they be omnivorous?

You don't think carnivores and omnivores pick up infections from raw meat?

No, carnivores and omnivores have specialized immune systems which are designed to deal with the bacteria from meat. An example would be the PH of a carnivores stomach, which is designed to get rid of bacteria from meat, and a shorter G.I. tract to deal with the rapidly decomposing meat.

They observed saber tooth tigers sitting around a campfire roasting a chicken? You're a silly bidilly. Early humans ate meat if they could acquire meat, sometimes it made them sick sometimes it didn't. Some died some didn't, hence the fundamental gamble that all species face, doing an activity that might or might not kill you and hoping you live long enough to pass on your genes. This is called natural selection, human ingenuity and inventions such as harnessing fire to kill bacteria and parasites in meat and using weapons to more easily obtain meat has taken humans out of the game of natural selection. Thus everyone can eat properly cooked meat and not have to worry about dying, this means that something that was a gamble is no longer a gamble.

More like observing carnivores eating meat, and trying to eat it to. Then, when they get sick, they experiment with ways of preparing meat. Thus realizing they can use fire to cook meat and expand the foods they could eat, increasing survivability rates. So yeah, they were working to increase there odds of passing on their genes, that doesn't mean they ate meat naturally.